ComingInHot Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Some (I'd like to say Most) of us have had some kind of "encounter" that we can't see. Again, if I say I believe then I have to follow the Word and what it teaches... I have to believe & accept that the Word says when our bodies die, our souls live on But not on/in this world. We are either in a "holding" place (not like a jail or anything) or Heaven or hell. Then there are these "experiences" that I/we/some have that are for all practical purposes, supernatural. I've experienced dark presence but also what I must think, angelic presence as well. I've heard others tales of encounters and watched programs & I think a lot of people believe it is an actual departed soul hanging around. What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites
sweetkiwi Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Aliens and energy fields our brains interpret as beings. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 What do you think? I think you need to get out more..... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Ghosts? Or Angels & demons, which is it? Maybe all of the above... or none of it. I really don't know. It's possible they're simply manifestations or "projections" from the brains of the living, similar to a movie projector casting images, but more interactive - the psychic power of our memories and thoughts blending, fusing, morphing on a molecular level with the physical objects surrounding us. Scientists tell us that objects that appear solid to us (like a desk, or a wall, or a floor) are actually quite porous. I've watched a few episodes of Long Island Medium, and it seems to me she is always telling the bereaved what they want/wish to hear from their departed loved ones - like she's tapping into THEIR (the living's) memory banks rather than actually communicating with the dead. But I could be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Well, I believe all of those exists, although I've never personally seen them, but I have witnessed divine intervention. I have read many accounts of people who have actually seen angels or had angels intercede for them. I worked with people who provided comfort to the dieing and were there at the time of their death, who witnessed their soul rising from their body upon death. Sometimes there are physical manifestations of spiritual beings. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The only way to understand phenomenon such as these is through the Judeochristian world view--specifically as documented in Scripture. Many of these subjects, on the surface, seem to have no connection whatsoever religion; but the more you investigate them, the more you realize there is ALWAYS a central spiritual element tied into Scripture. Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't know... I believe there is always a rational and logical explanation for everything, regardless of whether or not we actually understand it. Except for Rasputin... That bastard just wouldn't die. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ComingInHot Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 MUSA; I agree w/you. With that said, I guess I'm going to put it out there that ghosts are not "souls that haven't moved on yet" but either demons or Angels. I cannot deny my own experiences or blow it off as metaphysical (I think that's the right term.). I just didn't know what proof ( and proof is loaded, I know) that "ghosts) really are dead peoples souls. This is just one of the things that happened to "pop" into my head the morning while thinking of something funny my Gram used to do when she was alive. Silly, I guess?* Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 MUSA; I agree w/you. With that said, I guess I'm going to put it out there that ghosts are not "souls that haven't moved on yet" but either demons or Angels. I cannot deny my own experiences or blow it off as metaphysical (I think that's the right term.). I just didn't know what proof ( and proof is loaded, I know) that "ghosts) really are dead peoples souls. This is just one of the things that happened to "pop" into my head the morning while thinking of something funny my Gram used to do when she was alive. Silly, I guess?* Sometimes the Bible uses the word "spirit" interchangeably with "angel". However, this alone does not give us any indication whether they are holy angels or satanic angels. The Bible makes it clear that, at least currently, satanic angels cannot manifest physically. They are limited to spirits. A perfect example is when Jesus drove the demonic spirits out of a man and cast them into swine, which ran off the cliff. A demon, by definition, is a satanic angel that lacks a physical body, and thereby attempts to "host" a physical body, which gives it the ability to operate in the physical world. Holy angels, however, aren't limited in this area. Holy angels CAN appear physically and operate in the physical world (typically in the appearance of a humab being). Why is this? We don't know. But I challenge anyone to find ANY example of a satanic angel which PHYSICALLY appears any time after the Flood of Noah. I believe God put a restriction on them so as to prevent them from doing too much damage (as they did before the Flood). Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I think it's quite telling that James Randi's challenge is still up for grabs. The contacting of the dead just plays on superstitions and the emotions of vulnerable people. It's sickening. Agreed. Jesus even spoke of a "chasm" separating those who've died from those who still live. He clearly stated that there is no communication between the two. Reference... Luke 16:19-31 Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Agreed. Jesus even spoke of a "chasm" separating those who've died from those who still live. He clearly stated that there is no communication between the two. Reference... Luke 16:19-31 No He didn't. That passage refers to a conversation between Abraham and Lazarus (in heaven) and a rich man in torment (in hell). Abraham said "the great chasm" was between those in heaven vs. those in hell. Not those who died vs. those who are still living. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No He didn't. That passage refers to a conversation between Abraham and Lazarus (in heaven) and a rich man in torment (in hell). Abraham said "the great chasm" was between those in heaven vs. those in hell. Not those who died vs. those who are still living. Read where the rich man in hell asked if he could warn his living relatives not to follow the same path. Jesus said that won't happen. Your point is correct. So is mine. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Read where the rich man in hell asked if he could warn his living relatives not to follow the same path. Jesus said that won't happen. Your point is correct. So is mine. Again, no He didn't. Abraham said the relatives wouldn't listen "even if someone rises from the dead." I don't see how you could interpret that to mean "Jesus said that won't happen." Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Again, no He didn't. Abraham said the relatives wouldn't listen "even if someone rises from the dead." I don't see how you could interpret that to mean "Jesus said that won't happen." I think you might be right. I always assumed it said that but I guess not. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I think you might be right. I always assumed it said that but I guess not. No worries. You were about to rock my world:laugh: had to run a Sanity Check scan on myself - couldn't believe we were both reading the same passage and getting such a different take on it. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No worries. You were about to rock my world:laugh: had to run a Sanity Check scan on myself - couldn't believe we were both reading the same passage and getting such a different take on it. I just hadn't read it in a while. That was my prob. So it sounds like you have some views banked on this passage. Do you believe in communicating with the deceased? Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I just hadn't read it in a while. That was my prob. So it sounds like you have some views banked on this passage. Do you believe in communicating with the deceased? My views on this passage are more about rich vs. poor, particularly the blindness of the wealthy. As far as communicating with the deceased, I just don't know. I am very skeptical, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. But I won't rule it out. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 My views on this passage are more about rich vs. poor, particularly the blindness of the wealthy. As far as communicating with the deceased, I just don't know. I am very skeptical, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. But I won't rule it out. I agree with your views on the rich being blind. Here's a verse you might like... give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, ‘Who is the Lord?’ Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God. Proverbs 30:8b-9 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Sometimes the Bible uses the word "spirit" interchangeably with "angel". However, this alone does not give us any indication whether they are holy angels or satanic angels. The Bible makes it clear that, at least currently, satanic angels cannot manifest physically. They are limited to spirits. A perfect example is when Jesus drove the demonic spirits out of a man and cast them into swine, which ran off the cliff. A demon, by definition, is a satanic angel that lacks a physical body, and thereby attempts to "host" a physical body, which gives it the ability to operate in the physical world. Holy angels, however, aren't limited in this area. Holy angels CAN appear physically and operate in the physical world (typically in the appearance of a humab being). Why is this? We don't know. But I challenge anyone to find ANY example of a satanic angel which PHYSICALLY appears any time after the Flood of Noah. I believe God put a restriction on them so as to prevent them from doing too much damage (as they did before the Flood). Thanks M30...this is quite interesting to know:) Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Thanks M30...this is quite interesting to know:) Yes, it's comforting to know that even in this fallen world God STILL restrains the forces of evil. There are multiple verses which say that God has placed the fallen angels "in chains of darkness" to await the final judgement. He did this after they came down to earth and mingled themselves with human women (something which is shared in the myths of EVERY ancient civilization). The idea was to prevent them from doing this again. My own theory (independent of the Bible) is that the "chains of darkness" refers to a barrier between the spiritual and physical worlds which they cannot pass. But remember that HOLY angels still can. However, the book of Revelation tells us that God will release these fallen angels onto the world shortly before the judgement. This seems to correlate to the tribulation period. I believe during that time people WILL see fallen angels appear physically--since God will have released them from the "chains of darkness". Edited December 31, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
Author ComingInHot Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 My best friend & I met an angel. Not in full glory but a stranger that appeared out of nowhere. He was on a bike, touched my arm & say hold on a moment girls as we were about to cross an empty intersection w/the walking light flashing. Three seconds later, a car zoomed through the intersection & red light. Would have killed us for sure. We turned to thank him but there was NO ONE there! He couldn't have rode off w/out us seeing him peddling away. There wasn't anyone else downtown for him to get lost in a crowd. Another experience was having a thick black "thing" pushing down on me where I couldn't breathe. It was dark but this "thing" was still darker. I prayed and then yelled for help. My brother came in, his eyes got huge and he grabbed me & started praying too. The black thing released me and disappeared. To this day, we talk about it and daily put on or pray on the "armor of God". Yet never have I felt that a deceased love one has Ever tried to contact me or haunt me. Although I believe that these dark angels have tried to impersonate the deceased, but that is another story... Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Were you asleep or awake when the "black thing" pushed on you and you couldn't breath? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ComingInHot Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 awake. Not even to that "falling asleep" phase. I kept thinking my imagination was getting the better of me. I rationalized that things were reflecting off my dresser mirror & the way the starlight was hitting my blinds put a spin on this pitch black area above me. I was still rationalizing that the movement was due to the baseboard heating sending just a slight enough breeze that the blinds (even though heavy) were moving just enough to make it or the reflection "appear" to be decending. I remember as the heaviness began in my chest that it was just fear which can be felt physically sometimes. When it wasn't going away and I sat up and starting praying it instantly became a struggle and that's when I called for help. I'm a fairly logical person. I question everything and try to see the science behind things before jumping on the "it's the devil" band wagon but this one leaves me w/one conclusion. And a question. Why did (if my conclusion is correct) God allow an event like this to happen to me? Then I have to tell myself it isn't my place to question His decisions but try to see the lesson in it... Link to post Share on other sites
Author ComingInHot Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Oh, and I work w/sleep disordered patients so I totally see the logic in your question. I have witnessed night terrors, sleep walking, sleep paralysis, OSA events and parasympothetic reactions to drops in SPOtwo levels in conjunction w/central & obstructive events. It is actually quite similar, even the panic, if you wake up during anyone of the a ore mentioned events. I am open to Any thoughtful, logical, scientific explanations. Believe me, I would like nothing better than to add this "encounter" to my list of weird things that can happen to anyone and is completely explanable.** Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 What did your brother see? You said his eyes got wide when he came to help you. Link to post Share on other sites
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