pedwin Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 We went to the therapist today. We asked My H why he thought he had to have other women in his life. He said that he thinks it is the thrill of the chase. He said he didn't want to be that kind of person and would do what ever it takes to change. I told the therapist that I couldn't spend the rest of my life wondering what he was up to and that I was going to leave. The t asked him what he thought about that. He said he would do anything to change my mind. On the way home he wanted to stop at the library and get some books to read to help himself. I almost believed him. He's very good at that. The info dazed sent me says that a philanderer will always be one. The only way they will ever change is to face the possibility of losing something important to them. I don't think I'm really that important to him. I'm just all he has right now. any opinions will be appreciated. I almost didn't make it through therapy without breaking down but I don't want him to see that anymore. I want him to wonder why I'm so calm. Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
jacobmarino03 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I'm sorry to say this, but once a cheater always a cheater. They dont change. Link to post Share on other sites
Author pedwin Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 thanks for replying. what makes you say that? Are all these people trying to put there marriages back together wasting there time? Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
jacobmarino03 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 No, I'm not saying their wasting their time. I really do hope they can work through it. I personally have been cheated on quite a bit in my past relationships and everything with the counseling and stuff that we did, just turned out that they did it again. Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 pedwin, how many years have you been married and how many affairs has your H admitted to? If your H is a serial cheat, he's had 3 or more affairs, I'd dump him and start fresh. Life is too short to share with a serial philanderer. That you do not believe that he considers you important in his life speaks volumes. Even apart from the lies and betrayal, we want our lover/spouse to treasure us and hold us in esteem. This, you are not getting. I'm not a great believer in adult change once patterns get ingrained. It's too late to convert your H to practicing monogamy. Even no relationship is better than your current one, which must be toxic to your self-esteem and trusting abilities. Sometimes the ones we think we love are hazardous to our very health. Link to post Share on other sites
Author pedwin Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 give me a little more history if you don't mind. pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
StillHurtin Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I am glad that you are going. And I always thought that was true too, once a cheater always a cheater. My dh didn't cheat until 13 years after we met. I honestly can say that if he would of cheated on me b4 all these years he would of. I know dh hasn't cheated on my until recently and I know this for sure. I have plenty of friends who would of found out. When you live in a small town, things get around and fast. Anyhow, only you know what is best for you and your marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author pedwin Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 He has had 2 that I know of in our marriage. 1 lasted for 6 years. It started when he moved in with me and lasted through our getting married up until 4 years ago. pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Long term emotional affairs, the kind your husband carried on for 6 years, are absolutely toxic to marital intimacy. Short-lived "thrill ride" affairs are much less poisonous to marriages. That he has had at least 2 affairs indicates that the marital bonds have frayed to almost nothing.Pedwin, you (and your marriage) are most likely mere background. His affairs are the foreground of his emotional, sexual and romantic life. Can your marriage be saved in the sense of a return to joyful, enduring monogamy where you, and not some other woman, is your husband's first (or preferred)choice for love, tenderness and stimulation? Or has your marriage passed the "Point of No Return"? My best guess is your marriage has passed the PNR. I'd move on and start anew. Ignore his pitiful pleadings. Once he ensnares you, then he goes straight back to his girl friends. He loves the taste far too much to stop. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
shamen Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 No offense sinner, but shouldn't you be a little more up front about your beliefs on marriage in general here? That it's an archaic institution. Or your past situations? I've thought since you've joined that you are/were either a cheating MM or an OM... I'm not saying that maybe your views aren't correct, I'm just saying that pedwin should know where you are coming from... Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 shamen, comment on the views, not the person. If you disagree, offer a rebuttal. Don't take cheap shots. Peace. Link to post Share on other sites
shamen Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Sinner, again, I was not trying to offend. I swear. It's just that I think your views are clouded by your experiences/beliefs, as all of ours are really. Your advice/views are strongly anti marriage in many of your posts, IMHO. That's all I'm trying to say. I had a professor in college once, who on the first day of class, gave us a litany of many things that she believed (political science teacher) and the organizations that she belonged to, so we knew in advance where her prejudices were. Pedwin, I believe that therapy can help you and your husband figure out where to go from here. You may decide, as sinner points out, that he can't change; that he will always be someone who lives for the thrill of the chase. You may decide that you two are going to try to work it out. But in the meantime, keep going to therapy. Decide for yourself where to go next. It will be a hard road, but you will be OK! As you know (from the guidelines), coming to LS is not an exchange for professional help. It's just a place to get opinions/advice/views. Link to post Share on other sites
DazednConfused Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Pedwin, I am very glad that the materials i sent were helpful, but I think it is important to keep in mind that it is pretty much a generalization. You told me it fit your H in every regard, but so would perhaps two or three other types of affairs. I chose the type I thought most fit by the descriptions you gave in your posts. I am not an advocate of ending marriages. I hold my own vows as sacred, and think all who enter into marriage should as well. Are there justifiable circumstance to end a marriage? Of course. I applaud your efforts in going to counseling, and urge you to keep an open mind to what your husband has to say. In the end the decision is yours. I do think that we all as human beings have the ability to change, and that once a cheater can be just that - Once. I wish you all the luck in the world, and hope that you find happiness again soon! Edited cuz i fergot sumthin... Link to post Share on other sites
onlyhuman Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 In the future when he goes on business trips or to the dentist I would always wonder???? Your husband has made this into what it is, you should not have to carry the burden! Maybe something slightly different? How about a 3-6 month trial seperation with the acknowledgement that this would be meant to see if your husband can be true to you. I personally would leave, but, if you must at least with a seperation you can see what hubby is all about. His current track record is not good, there is no reason to trust him.He is only going to therapy because he is caught. Question, Do you think Hubby could go 6 months without his babes? If you say right now NO then leave. I really hope this all works out for you, it is sad to see good people go through crap like this. Good Luck Link to post Share on other sites
Author pedwin Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Thanks everyone for being so kind to me. I am in a state of shock. At the risk of sounding ignorant I thought the word philanderer was just a term for a jerk who screws around. Now I know differently. I am more confused than ever. My question two days ago was " does he want to quit screwing other women" my question today is " can he quit screwing other women?" This is scary stuff. I am reading everything I can find on the philanderer. Please pray for me. I never thought you could feel this low. To love someone and not know weather to stay with them or not is awful. When he left to go to work tonight he thanked me for staying another day with him. This broke my heart. Was he being sincere or was he manipulating me? Pedwin here is an article I found that may be of help to someone. ADVICE TO Hillary, ALL DEARLY betrayed, AND nearly BETRAYED * Yes, oral sex really is infidelity. * It's a boundary problem, not a love problem. * Some woman or other is going to give him a second chance to prove that he can be faithful. Decide if that woman can be you. * Faithfulness is not a virtue that falls out of the heavens it's a skill. And it can be learned. Get yourselves to the Smart Marriages conference, July 8 to 12, right in D.C. (http://www. smartmarriages.com) * Disregard what other people say. All that matters is your ability to rebuild trust. * Recognize your power and use it to renegotiate your relationship from the bottom up. * Despite the hurt and anger, love can still survive. * You may want to consider your shared history, shared goals, and shared commitment to important causes. * Affairs are less a reflection of the partner and the marriage than of broader forces in the culture that undermine monogamy. * You may look realistically at your partner's other qualities and decide that on balance you prefer your spouse to other potential partners. --The Editors, with Peggy Vaughan, author of The Monogamy Myth. RELATED ARTICLE: `HOW DO I Know YOU WON'T Betray ME Again' The following are signs of recovery, healing, and hope for a committed future together. The unfaithful partner: * recognizes and understands the individual vulnerabilities that contributed to the affair--curiously, depression, need for excitement, and rescue fantasies are common ones--and views them as danger signals. * shows empathy for the pain caused by the infidelity. * assumes responsibility for the betrayal, regardless of any problems that existed in the marriage. The betrayed partner: * as able to recognize when his/her partner might be lying again. * refuses to put his/her head in the sand. * refuses to give without getting anything back. Together you develop a united front: * You can refer to affair-related events with calmness, perhaps humor. * You can make united decisions concerning fallout from the affair, such as intrusive phone calls or a request for AIDS testing, and jointly manage present and future encounters with the affair partner. * Your marriage is stronger: there's more reciprocity, more caring and communication, and better conflict management. * You see eye to eye on the value of exclusivity and monogamy because of the pain the infidelity caused. * You share responsibility for changing the relationship. * You make more time for yourselves as a couple, apart from your children's seeds, as a way to strengthen the friendship and erotic bond between you. RELATED ARTICLE: What is the single most Important thing you want people to know about infidelity? BOUNDARIES, That it is possible to love somebody else, to be attracted to somebody else even if you have a good marriage. In this collegial world where we work together, you have to conduct yourself by being aware of appropriate boundaries, by not creating opportunities, particularly at a time when you might be vulnerable. That means that if you travel together, you never invite someone for a drink in the room; if you just had a fight with your spouse, you don't discuss it with a potential partner. You can have a friendship, but you have to be careful who you share your deepest feelings with. Although women share their deep feelings with lots of people, particularly other women, men are usually most comfortable sharing their feelings in a love relationship. As a result, when a relationship becomes intimate and emotional, men tend to sexualize it. Link to post Share on other sites
DazednConfused Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Great articles Pedwin. I know the inner struggle you are dealing with every minute of every day, and I can realate to everything you have posted. Keep doing all the things you usually and add one thing specifically for YOU each day, you may be amazed how much that little something special can help your state of mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Author pedwin Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 dazed, My H took the pages you sent to bed with him last night to read.(i sleep on the sofa). He came down this morning with the papers in his hand. He sat down beside me and said" I DON'T WANT TO BE THIS PERSON. PLEASE HELP ME CHANGE." It broke my heart. Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 pedwin, thanks for the wonderful link to the infidelity articles. Very interesting reading. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel_Ladee Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Okay - here's a different twist on this topic. I what "he" now refers to as only a "friendship" with another man. It was sexual and has been on and off for 2 years. The dead times with no contact have lasted up to 2 months then he calls again and there I find myself having a drink all over again as it becomes heated for a couple of months and then goes back to nothing as if I never existed all over again. This time - I said no more. I feel like crap about it all and decided to seek therapy. My pyschologist has completely recommended I tell his wife. I am against doing that - because I don't want to hurt anybody. Seems like opinions vary on whether a woman has a right to know, a woman would want to know, or you would just be intentionally inflicting pain open a woman. He's done this a few times before that I know of - so I don't know if I should say anything at all. I'm stuck. I have nothing to gain - so why should I tell. Yet - if it were me - I might not want to continually be made a fool of - and want to be told. I'm torn. Any input?? Link to post Share on other sites
Author pedwin Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 I can't speak for everyone but I would definitely tell the wife. I would and did want to know. I wanted to know everything. I called the OW this weekend for more details. His wife has the right to know what kind of life she is in. If he has done this before he could be walking around with some kind of STD. If he gave it to his wife and she died you would feel partially responsible. Tell her and give her the chance to make her own decisions. She may already know and has decided to ignore it. I am in great pain but I am glad I know. JUST MY OPINION. Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
Angel_Ladee Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I see your point, but on the other hand - I am also EXTREMELY concerned of the repercussions that will come from him if I do tell his W. So I'm stuck. If she gets an STD - but I'd also feel bad - if it destroys what could be potentially left of their marriage. Plus, if I tell her, you never know what he might do either. No one gains anything by this the way I see it. What a mess! NEVER again! Link to post Share on other sites
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