Why is suicide always seen as wrong?

[Ross MwcFan]

Mental illness is usually able to be improved, if not cured. I know many many people who are very happy now who at one point attempted or considered suicide.

 

Not always, I'm proof of that.

 

My reasons for suicide being wrong have nothing to do with how it affects others. It's just a cop-out. There is so much beauty and joy in the world. So many things to experience. So much to see. So much to do. Just saying "no thanks" or "I can't" and choosing to opt out of trying to get better is a pussy move. It's the ultimate in weakness. I think people should demand more of themselves than that.

 

You obviously don't understand what it's like being suicidal. You think all someone who is suicidal needs to do is to sniff a flower or look at a rainbow and everything will be okay?

 

No offense peteromom, but you're being really ignorant here.

 

And if they are truly in a place where they feel completely hopeless, they need HELP, not death. Find help. Call 911 and say you are thinking about killing yourself and let people help you if you aren't in a place where you can help yourself. Call a family member and let THEM help you. Call a hotline.

 

I've seen two docs about it, didn't get much help from them at all. They just said, well you can't keep changing your meds, you can't keep seeing therapists...

[todreaminblue]

How would it be possible for there to be nothing that could help them? Unless they've tried EVERYTHING, they don't know that.

 

Mental illness is usually able to be improved, if not cured. I know many many people who are very happy now who at one point attempted or considered suicide.

 

My reasons for suicide being wrong have nothing to do with how it affects others. It's just a cop-out. There is so much beauty and joy in the world. So many things to experience. So much to see. So much to do. Just saying "no thanks" or "I can't" and choosing to opt out of trying to get better is a pussy move. It's the ultimate in weakness. I think people should demand more of themselves than that.

 

And if they are truly in a place where they feel completely hopeless, they need HELP, not death. Find help. Call 911 and say you are thinking about killing yourself and let people help you if you aren't in a place where you can help yourself. Call a family member and let THEM help you. Call a hotline.

 

 

 

Its easy to say its a pussy move and a cop out because you dont understand that point you get too ro the circumstances and situation involved to push a person to the point where life seems too dark too continue.....as far as pussy move goes.......thats offensive and not understanding...suicidal people need to be understood not judged..and what if the person feels they shouldnt or cant be helped......the moment just before death or suicide do you think they remember phone numbers or a lifeline what are the thought processes happening? do you think they are thinking i am such a pussy?.or do you think they have no hope..do you think they are thinking **** this is wrong i just need help????.......deb

[Ross MwcFan]

Ross, you're an intelligent young man, but this from you is puerile.

 

There is a difference between euthanasia and suicide.

 

Euthanasia is usually for very understandable and often sound, sensible and logical reasons.

 

Suicide isn't.

 

I'm talking about dieing for very understandable and often sound, sensible and logical reasons when I say suicide. Didn't realise I 'had' to say euthanasisa.

 

Nothing purile about what I've been saying at all, just shows that if you think that you're either ignorant or not that intelligent.

[Ross MwcFan]

Its easy to say its a pussy move and a cop out because you dont understand that point you get too ro the circumstances and situation involved to push a person to the point where life seems too dark too continue.....as far as pussy move goes.......thats offensive and not understanding...suicidal people need to be understood not judged..and what if the person feels they shouldnt or cant be helped......the moment just before death or suicide do you think they remember phone numbers or a lifeline what are the thought processes happening? do you think they are thinking i am such a pussy?.or do you think they have no hope..do you think they are thinking **** this is wrong i just need help????.......deb

 

I used to like peteromom a lot, but this has made me lose some respect for her to be honest.

[TaraMaiden]

Yeah, but come on - think!

An animal is put out of its suffering by someone else...

 

Suicide is a self-organised affair - the two are completely different!

 

You can't talk about them in the same way.

they mean two totally different things.

[amaysngrace]

I've seen two docs about it, didn't get much help from them at all. They just said, well you can't keep changing your meds, you can't keep seeing therapists...

 

You need to see a different doctor. Those two sound lame.

[Ross MwcFan]

That sounds like a cop out. Unless they've exhausted themselves by trying to get well then yeah maybe. But there are ways to get well.

 

Mental health is tricky. People won't seek it sometimes because they aren't in their right frame of mind. It's like, no joke, there's something wrong in their head. They aren't thinking clearly so they don't get the help they need.

 

It's a sad sad thing.

 

Okay then, I'm suicidal, or 'euthanasical' if that is even a word. How do I get 'well'?

[Ross MwcFan]

Yeah, but come on - think!

An animal is put out of its suffering by someone else...

 

Suicide is a self-organised affair - the two are completely different!

 

You can't talk about them in the same way.

they mean two totally different things.

 

So if the animal which is suffering so badly that it would rather be dead and it'll continue to feel this way for the rest of it's life took itself out that'd suddenly be wrong?

[TaraMaiden]

Okay then, I'm suicidal, or 'euthanasical' if that is even a word. How do I get 'well'?

 

No it's not.

And as they're two totally different actions, also impossible.

Euthanasia means someone else administers the fatal dose, under supervision and approval.

 

Suicide is often the last desperate act of someone who for that while has lost the innate ability to reason, rationally.

[amaysngrace]

Okay then, I'm suicidal, or 'euthanasical' if that is even a word. How do I get 'well'?

 

You find a doctor who cares about you and your mental well being for starters.

 

What are you diagnosed with, if you don't mind me asking?

[Ross MwcFan]

No it's not.

And as they're two totally different actions, also impossible.

Euthanasia means someone else administers the fatal dose, under supervision and approval.

 

Suicide is often the last desperate act of someone who for that while has lost the innate ability to reason, rationally.

 

What does it matter whether someone offs me or I do it myself?

[Ross MwcFan]

You find a doctor who cares about you and your mental well being for starters.

 

What are you diagnosed with, if you don't mind me asking?

 

Depression, anxiety, really struggling with life in general, being really hurt and scared from life in general, and being an Incel for life.

[TaraMaiden]

So if the animal which is suffering so badly that it would rather be dead and it'll continue to feel this way for the rest of it's life took itself out that'd suddenly be wrong?

 

How do you know it would rather be dead?

Animals don't have the mental ability to factor in conscience or the desire to die.

Those factors are neither developed nor present in animal brains as they are in ours, which is why humans make those decisions for them. We deem it necessary to euthanase an animal in order to put it out of its suffering - which in virtually every case is physical - because its quality of life cannot be improved on.

[TaraMaiden]

What does it matter whether someone offs me or I do it myself?

 

Because the former is murder, the latter is suicide.....

[Ross MwcFan]

How do you know it would rather be dead?

Animals don't have the mental ability to factor in conscience or the desire to die.

Those factors are neither developed nor present in animal brains as they are in ours, which is why humans make those decisions for them. We deem it necessary to euthanase an animal in order to put it out of its suffering - which in virtually every case is physical - because its quality of life cannot be improved on.

 

You can never know 100%, but you can get a good idea if an animal is writhing about in pain and will continue to do so for the rest of it's life, or if, I dunno, it's whole jaw had to be cut off because of mouth cancer (which is what happened to my beloved dog).

[todreaminblue]

I used to like peteromom a lot, but this has made me lose some respect for her to be honest.

 

 

I havent lost respect for pteromom a phenomenal advice giver ,thoughtful , wise and sweet...this post wasnt thoughtful however and she admits she doesnt understand it....no one is perfick...love pteromom.....smilin atcha.....deb

[Ross MwcFan]

Because the former is murder, the latter is suicide.....

 

And you think that the latter is bad and not the former because...

[todreaminblue]

Yeah, but come on - think!

An animal is put out of its suffering by someone else...

 

Suicide is a self-organised affair - the two are completely different!

 

You can't talk about them in the same way.

they mean two totally different things.

 

 

sometimes it isnt organised, sometimes its a spur of the moment absence fo thought or self control..an impulse they are the ones you cant help or see or determine.what suicide depends on is the hard wiring that car hill talked about how deep that survival instinct runs that gods gift , because basically thats all you have left......deb

[amaysngrace]

Depression, anxiety, really struggling with life in general, being really hurt and scared from life in general, and being an Incel for life.

 

I'm sorry. My daughter is suffering from anxiety and depression as well as being an incel but she's only 14 so the incel part I'm okay with.

 

I got her help as soon as I found out that she was suicidal but she is lucky that she has me to call the shots for her. You don't have that luxury of someone of sound mind and body doing that for you. I know that there is more than one anti-depressant and one anti-anxiety med on the market and you may need to try a combination of all of them until you find a good fit. It may take the better part of a year to find the perfect match.

 

A good doctor would know that. Not just say there is no help and send you on your way.

 

If someone pulled that crap with my child I'd be livid. You need to get better and if you aren't getting proper care you need to find a doctor who is reputable and caring. Not someone who merely wipes his hands of you.

[Ross MwcFan]

I'm sorry. My daughter is suffering from anxiety and depression as well as being an incel but she's only 14 so the incel part I'm okay with.

 

I got her help as soon as I found out that she was suicidal but she is lucky that she has me to call the shots for her. You don't have that luxury of someone of sound mind and body doing that for you. I know that there is more than one anti-depressant and one anti-anxiety med on the market and you may need to try a combination of all of them until you find a good fit. It may take the better part of a year to find the perfect match.

 

A good doctor would know that. Not just say there is no help and send you on your way.

 

If someone pulled that crap with my child I'd be livid. You need to get better and if you aren't getting proper care you need to find a doctor who is reputable and caring. Not someone who merely wipes his hands of you.

 

I've seen 3 or 4 docs now, and they've all said, you can't keep changing meds, you've already tried a lot of them, there isn't much chance that any others would help.

 

That has always seemed stupid to me, because surely that implies that there's at least a small chance that there might be a med out there that would help, so why not keep on trying different ones?

 

But yeah, after 4 docs it just feels like the rest will probably say the same thing, there's a couple of others in the health centre that I haven't tried for meds, but they're uncompassionate *******s who would most probably just act like dicks and say get over it rather than let me try another med.

[Ross MwcFan]

I'm sorry. My daughter is suffering from anxiety and depression as well as being an incel but she's only 14 so the incel part I'm okay with.

 

I got her help as soon as I found out that she was suicidal but she is lucky that she has me to call the shots for her. You don't have that luxury of someone of sound mind and body doing that for you. I know that there is more than one anti-depressant and one anti-anxiety med on the market and you may need to try a combination of all of them until you find a good fit. It may take the better part of a year to find the perfect match.

 

A good doctor would know that. Not just say there is no help and send you on your way.

 

If someone pulled that crap with my child I'd be livid. You need to get better and if you aren't getting proper care you need to find a doctor who is reputable and caring. Not someone who merely wipes his hands of you.

 

A 14 year old Incel? I think a lot of 14 years olds haven't had any sexual experiences yet or at least they didn't back in my day when I was that age.

 

Is there another reason why you're saying she's Incel? Has she never experienced any kind of interest from boys before? If that's true she's still young, I'm sure it'll change when she's older.

[Ross MwcFan]

What's the point in me carrying on living anyway, the reason why we're all here is to pass on our genes and create new beings. I'll never do that, so I'm just here wasting the Earths resources.

[amaysngrace]

I've seen 3 or 4 docs now, and they've all said, you can't keep changing meds, you've already tried a lot of them, there isn't much chance that any others would help.

 

That has always seemed stupid to me, because surely that implies that there's at least a small chance that there might be a med out there that would help, so why not keep on trying different ones?

 

But yeah, after 4 docs it just feels like the rest will probably say the same thing, there's a couple of others in the health centre that I haven't tried for meds, but they're uncompassionate *******s who would most probably just act like dicks and say get over it rather than let me try another med.

 

Have you ever had counseling for the underlying cause of your depression? You said that life has beaten you up. Have you ever talked about it with a psychotherapist?

 

Yes there are lots of different medications out there. There was even one that was advertised that's helps boost the anti-depressants.

 

But if you don't address why you feel depressed to begin with then you are right. The medicine won't work for long.

 

My daughters problems surfaced just a little over a month ago and all she has had so far is talk therapy. She won't meet with a psychiatrist to see if meds are an option for three more weeks.

 

I really think finding the root cause of the problem is a better road for recovery than masking it with a pill. Sometimes meds are needed but they should only be given to assist what talk therapy can't help, like a chemical imbalance.

 

Do you go see a therapist regularly?

[carhill]

Ross, the low-light winter days are getting to you. It'll pass. We called it 'sundowning' with the dementia patients and there was often depression and suicidal feelings expressed, along with agitation. It's part of that chemical factory of the brain. Sorry you're having a rough go of it. I recall a similar period during caregiving. My early days on LS were during that period. Still breathing. You will be too. There's something right about breathing.

[Ross MwcFan]

Have you ever had counseling for the underlying cause of your depression? You said that life has beaten you up. Have you ever talked about it with a psychotherapist?

 

Yes there are lots of different medications out there. There was even one that was advertised that's helps boost the anti-depressants.

 

But if you don't address why you feel depressed to begin with then you are right. The medicine won't work for long.

 

My daughters problems surfaced just a little over a month ago and all she has had so far is talk therapy. She won't meet with a psychiatrist to see if meds are an option for three more weeks.

 

I really think finding the root cause of the problem is a better road for recovery than masking it with a pill. Sometimes meds are needed but they should only be given to assist what talk therapy can't help, like a chemical imbalance.

 

Do you go see a therapist regularly?

 

I'm seeing two, I'm not sure if we've ever talked about my underlying cause for my depression.

 

I still honestly don't know whether it's a chemical imbalance in my brain or whether that life is just **** to me.