Why is suicide always seen as wrong?

[Ross MwcFan]

Ross, the low-light winter days are getting to you. It'll pass. We called it 'sundowning' with the dementia patients and there was often depression and suicidal feelings expressed, along with agitation. It's part of that chemical factory of the brain. Sorry you're having a rough go of it. I recall a similar period during caregiving. My early days on LS were during that period. Still breathing. You will be too. There's something right about breathing.

 

Weirdly enough, when it's summer and it's really bright and hot, that makes me feel worse for some reason.

 

So much for sniffing flowers, and looking at rainbows.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Ross MwcFan

[amaysngrace]

I'm seeing two, I'm not sure if we've ever talked about my underlying cause for my depression.

 

I still honestly don't know whether it's a chemical imbalance in my brain or whether that life is just **** to me.

 

Well you owe it to yourself to figure that out, don't you think?

 

I barely know much of you at all but I know you're a kind person and a gifted artist. I'm sorry if someone or something made you feel less than good about yourself but they are most likely damaged in their own way to make another person feel so bad.

 

But try to get better. Try anything and everything you can to get better. Then you beat them down by not allowing them to keep you down. Then they have no hold over you.

 

It's freedom at its finest.

[TouchedByViolet]

Life is full of possibilities. Life is the experience where death is an end point. Experience life. Do something. Seize the day. Live. Dream. Work at something. Laugh. Share your experience with others. Live life.

 

That's what I tell myself at least

[carhill]

Weirdly enough, when it's summer and it's really bright and hot, that makes me feel worse for some reason.

I was reflecting upon the changes in your posting tone over the last couple weeks. I'll go back and read some postings from this past summer for comparison. Thanks.

 

Doing so brings up another potential 'reason'. Arbitrarily terminating the timeline of an otherwise healthy being creates a ripple effect throughout the potentials which will never be realized, the future the person will never know or experience. To me, that seems wrong. It affects all of us. Even here on LS, in our virtual world, if you weren't here tomorrow it would make a difference; it would change things. It might seem that way to you but it would. Sure, life would go on; it's the nature of existence and another reason for 'wrong'. Lots of reasons

[Ross MwcFan]

Well you owe it to yourself to figure that out, don't you think?

 

I barely know much of you at all but I know you're a kind person and a gifted artist. I'm sorry if someone or something made you feel less than good about yourself but they are most likely damaged in their own way to make another person feel so bad.

 

But try to get better. Try anything and everything you can to get better. Then you beat them down by not allowing them to keep you down. Then they have no hold over you.

 

It's freedom at its finest.

 

Thanks.

 

I don't know how to figure it out.

 

My mum, and my peers (quite a few of which were bullies) while I was growing up, and women in general (I know it's not their fault if they're not attracted to me) have made me feel less than good about myself.

[Ross MwcFan]

Life is full of possibilities. Life is the experience where death is an end point. Experience life. Do something. Seize the day. Live. Dream. Work at something. Laugh. Share your experience with others. Live life.

 

That's what I tell myself at least

 

If only it was that simple. *Shakes head*

[Ross MwcFan]

I was reflecting upon the changes in your posting tone over the last couple weeks. I'll go back and read some postings from this past summer for comparison. Thanks.

 

Doing so brings up another potential 'reason'. Arbitrarily terminating the timeline of an otherwise healthy being creates a ripple effect throughout the potentials which will never be realized, the future the person will never know or experience. To me, that seems wrong. It affects all of us. Even here on LS, in our virtual world, if you weren't here tomorrow it would make a difference; it would change things. It might seem that way to you but it would. Sure, life would go on; it's the nature of existence and another reason for 'wrong'. Lots of reasons

 

It wouldn't affect anyone on here if I never appeared on the site again.

 

I'm surprised that I'm still posting on here to be honest because of all the bullies on here, maybe I'm a sucker for punishment.

[amaysngrace]

Thanks.

 

I don't know how to figure it out.

 

My mum, and my peers (quite a few of which were bullies) while I was growing up, and women in general (I know it's not their fault if they're not attracted to me) have made me feel less than good about myself.

 

You need to see a therapist if you can't figure it out. I've gone and have seen somebody when life is overwhelming and I can't figure things out on my own. I've gone for several reasons in my lifetime.

 

My daughter has made one very interesting revelation in just a short time with a counselor. She figures if people can say good things about her and it has little to no impact on her self-esteem, then why should she allow negatives things that people say make an impact?

 

She's getting better and you can too Ross. Anybody can if they want to. It just takes not giving up and never quitting until you get the results you desire.

 

That's the big difference from being a victim or a survivor.

[Ross MwcFan]

You need to see a therapist if you can't figure it out. I've gone and have seen somebody when life is overwhelming and I can't figure things out on my own. I've gone for several reasons in my lifetime.

 

My daughter has made one very interesting revelation in just a short time with a counselor. She figures if people can say good things about her and it has little to no impact on her self-esteem, then why should she allow negatives things that people say make an impact?

 

She's getting better and you can too Ross. Anybody can if they want to. It just takes not giving up and never quitting until you get the results you desire.

 

That's the big difference from being a victim or a survivor.

 

Do you not think I want to get better?

 

The fact is I do, but I can't.

 

**** life, and **** all the breeders (99% of the worlds population).

[ErosOcean]

They say it's cowardly and selfish, but it's my life, and if I don't see any good in it, why is it even in death I'm going to be ridiculed for the action?

 

I understand people have it worse; I understand there are children dying of starvation and disease. I understand all that and I think it's terrible.

 

But my life brings no joy, and honestly if it wasn't for my parents I probably would have done it years ago.

 

I feel like there is too much to change and the barriers seem too tall and numerous to overcome.

 

Why is wanting out such a bad thing?

 

Well suicide is not always selfish.

 

A simple case of that is when a man knowingly gives up his spot on a boat to save another person. He would be deemed a hero and selfless for knowingly committing suicide.

 

So it's dependant on the circumstances.

 

We could also argue the point that your family is being selfish for wanting you to suffer even more through life. If they weren't so selfish, they should let you go.

 

However, I don't know what you are going through, we all have our own issues. And that is something that we all independantly have to work on.

 

But to commit suicide because the stresses of life seem overwhelming is not a justifiable reason to do so. It's something that you are going to have to work through.

 

I know you may think that your suffering has no point to it. But sometimes there is a lesson there, there could be a purpose for it to help you to grow as a person. Sometimes the people who have suffered the most, turn out to be the greatest teachers, leaders or innovators of this world. Their suffering helped to shape them into the great people they are. I could name numerous people and I'm sure if you read the life stories of great people, you will find this to be true.

 

I'll just give some brief examples:

 

Nelson Mandela, who spent 27 years locked up in prison, and four years from his release he setup a democratic South Africa.

 

Somaly Mam, who was a former child sex slave, is now a human rights activist fighting to end modern day slavery.

 

Oprah Winfrey, a woman who endured much when she was young. Child abuse, poverty, and rape is now a famous billionaire who does a lot of philanthropic work.

 

You can find many rags to riches stories that tell a story of people who have suffered and have overcome it.

 

But let me give you one final example of what it means to perservere through your struggles.

 

1831: Failed in business

1832: Defeated for legislature

1833: Failed in business again

1834: Elected to legislature

1835: Sweetheart died

1836: Had a nervous breakdown

1838: Defeated for speaker

1840: Defeated for elector

1843: Defeated for congressional nomination

1846: Elected to Congress

1848: Defeated for Congress

1855: Defeated for Senate

1856: Defeated for Vice President

1859: Defeated for Senate

1860: Elected President of the United States

 

This man was Abraham Lincoln. But it is not widely known, that throughout his life Abraham Lincoln had bouts of depression and on several occassions contemplated suicide. Fortunately for us he had good friends that made sure he stuck it through.

 

So who knows, you could be someone who has a destiny to save many lives not just your own.

 

Well, if you are still unconvinced that you can not persevere, another point to think of is the point of reincarnation.

 

If you believe or perhaps study reincarnation and karma, you will come to find out that it does you no good. You will come back again. Not with the same personality or body, but you will come back with the same karmic debt that you have to work out. If you are interested in this point of view, there are many works out there that you can study.

 

In closing, others here have already suggested therapy. I think that could be useful.

 

But if I may give my recommendation, it would perhaps be to study and read philosophy. The wisdom that philosophy teaches you will help you to not conquer the world as some may believe, but so as to not let the world conquer you. Philosophy could serve as your compass and steer you to your own purpose in life.

 

I like the philosophers of antiquity like Plato, Socrates, Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, etc. compared to the modern philosophy.

 

Anyways, good luck my friend.

[SpiralOut]

I don't think it's ethical to force someone to live, it's quite cruel and disturbing really.

 

I don't think anyone on here is talking about forcing someone to live.

 

If someone wants to kill themselves so badly all they need to do is not tell anyone what they're doing, and make sure nobody else is around when they do it.

 

It's not fair to expect someone to support your decision to kill yourself. That's ridiculous. Oh and I've felt suicidal before, used to keep a pack of sleeping pills beside my bed just in case I ever decided I've had enough. I've struggled with depression for 14 years, have been in and out of therapy, and every now and then I still wonder if it'd be easier to just give up. But still, I would never expect someone to tell me that suicide is okay.

[Anela]

That sounds like a cop out. Unless they've exhausted themselves by trying to get well then yeah maybe. But there are ways to get well.

 

Mental health is tricky. People won't seek it sometimes because they aren't in their right frame of mind. It's like, no joke, there's something wrong in their head. They aren't thinking clearly so they don't get the help they need.

 

It's a sad sad thing.

 

I told someone earlier, that when I've wanted to seek help, it was when I was in a healthier frame of mind and realized that my emotions were too intense for whatever I was experiencing. This was very early in 2008, so it was five years ago. I ended up not looking for help, even though I've been carrying around a bunch of fears and increasingly depressive feelings (over the past few years, I've felt sort of like Carrie at the prom, post pigs blood drop).

 

When I have even a slightly healthier frame of mind then I think that I need to make some changes, but I usually need to feel a little *more* better in order to have the energy and optimism to plan how I might make those changes. And then a whole bunch of fear rushes in, which I know is normal, but if I'm not feeling so great, then I just wonder what the point is - there's the feeling that it's never going to happen.

 

The worst for me, has been the dissolution of a few very important relationships. And I'm going to stop here, because I wanted to be dead just a few days ago. If I go more deeply into explanations, trying to get across how someone can want to die when others see no reason for it, then I'll get more emotional, and I just pulled myself out of another spiral this evening. I also know someone who has thought she should be dead for the past two years - earlier on, she said that she knew she shouldn't have been alive for 2012, and now it's 2013, and she still feels like she shouldn't be here. Then she looks at her mother, knowing that she has dealt with suicide before (losing someone), and doesn't want to do that to her, but she lives with the feelings every single day. I live with them most days now, but I grab onto good feelings and try to hold onto them as long as possible.

 

I also have that quote from Clarence, in my signature. He's my favourite part of It's a Wonderful Life.

[amaysngrace]

Do you not think I want to get better?

 

The fact is I do, but I can't .

 

Maybe you can't on your own so you need to see someone who can help you get better. There is help available. You just have to be open and honest and mostly receptive. If you keep telling yourself you can't get better, you won't unfortunately.

[SpiralOut]

They say it's cowardly and selfish, but it's my life, and if I don't see any good in it, why is it even in death I'm going to be ridiculed for the action?

 

. . . .

 

Why is wanting out such a bad thing?

 

The real question here is why do you care so much what other people think?

[Anela]

You need to see a therapist if you can't figure it out. I've gone and have seen somebody when life is overwhelming and I can't figure things out on my own. I've gone for several reasons in my lifetime.

 

My daughter has made one very interesting revelation in just a short time with a counselor. She figures if people can say good things about her and it has little to no impact on her self-esteem, then why should she allow negatives things that people say make an impact?

 

She's getting better and you can too Ross. Anybody can if they want to. It just takes not giving up and never quitting until you get the results you desire.

 

That's the big difference from being a victim or a survivor.

 

I'm glad to hear your daughter is getting better!

 

I should have seen a therapist when I was a kid. I was trying to handle things, and nobody knew how bad I was feeling - my mother knew I was dealing with some trouble, but thought that I was handling it. I resented the fact that the Head of Year at school, said that the bullying was all in my head, when she knew that wasn't the case. I wasn't about to see a doctor on her suggestion, when that was her view of things. I felt like I didn't belong anywhere, that I shouldn't even be seen, but for the most part, I have a more rational part of my brain that pops in little tidbits to counter any thoughts like that. When I'm overwhelmed, I rush out to the woods now, or just get away; I usually calm down whilst walking it off, although I got lost once, when I shot off in the other direction, not wanting to be found.

[amaysngrace]

I should have seen a therapist when I was a kid. I was trying to handle things, and nobody knew how bad I was feeling - my mother knew I was dealing with some trouble, but thought that I was handling it.

 

This is exactly what my daughter did. She tried to handle it all on her own. But she's a child just as you were then too Anela. Many of the coping skills you've developed were through the mind of a child. Maybe you should see somebody to update them now? Please?

 

XO

[todreaminblue]

The real question here is why do you care so much what other people think?

 

 

because he still cares what others think, he has hope.......i am glad he cares

[Forever Learning]

I didn't read this thread, so I apologize in advance for that. But looking at the title alone - my Grandfather (born around 1910) took his life when he was elderly and very ill with diabetes, dementia and other issues.

 

He was an old farmer and trapper who lived way up in the mountains far out in the country and that is the mentality of those who supported themselves their entire life through extremely hard work - they don't want to be a burden on their elderly wives, children, neighbors, or their country and they don't want to be shipped off to a nursing home.

 

I know my Grandfather made a good decision to end his life at the time he did, and I have nothing but respect for him and his decision, he was an amazing man who worked his fingers to the bone as a farmer and trapper his entire life.

 

However, I realize many folks, especially young folks, can't relate whatsoever to his thought process or who he was as a man. But others from his generation definitely can, and so can I. Cheers friends!

[todreaminblue]

Maybe you can't on your own so you need to see someone who can help you get better. There is help available. You just have to be open and honest and mostly receptive. If you keep telling yourself you can't get better, you won't unfortunately.

 

 

when i was in the psyche ward after medical intervention...i walked past the room where the shrinks were discussing me...so i listened in, they didnt know i was there or maybe they did, not going to wrap my head around that one.......this sentence was said by one of them

 

"How do we get through to her start writing poetry to get her interest"....it was me they were talking about.....and one day on here i read a comment that said something along similar lines that made me paranoid......about needing to post about deserts and flowers to get through to someone and that started a down ward spiral for me on here where i thought my shrink team of old was posting on love shack and i went rank........absolute rankness from deb....the comment was probably not even directed to me or maybe it was, but it did trigger a response...not a very good one.....because after i decided with a couple of the tactics used with me, shaming tactics when i was rank i figured out they werent shrinks......i thought they were people out to hurt me...and i went into protection mode.......

 

you cannot get through to people who dont want to be helped,God is however there for them ALWAYS unfailingly...., you cant white knight people who have issues you can only support them, they have to want to open up and for some with issues and some people, its harder than normal, theres things you should never do

 

one is play games

two is ignore

three is give up

because if you give up on a person giving up why should they believe that it is worth the fight...if you give up......and sometimes fighting for someone to not give up is passive support..but mostly acceptance and love, knowing you cant understand what they are going through but you are there regardless...you have to validate their place and the void they fill that you see them flaws and all..

 

 

so you are so spot on you have to be receptive to get help and it isnt easy to be but reaching out is a step and this poster has.....reached out.so however much i tfrustrates people to read and they dont understand it and know the solution is GET HELP...its good to have support around you until you are ready for that step....psyche 101..sometimes love and acceptance can beat ect hands down.........................deb

[todreaminblue]

I'm glad to hear your daughter is getting better!

 

I should have seen a therapist when I was a kid. I was trying to handle things, and nobody knew how bad I was feeling - my mother knew I was dealing with some trouble, but thought that I was handling it. I resented the fact that the Head of Year at school, said that the bullying was all in my head, when she knew that wasn't the case. I wasn't about to see a doctor on her suggestion, when that was her view of things. I felt like I didn't belong anywhere, that I shouldn't even be seen, but for the most part, I have a more rational part of my brain that pops in little tidbits to counter any thoughts like that. When I'm overwhelmed, I rush out to the woods now, or just get away; I usually calm down whilst walking it off, although I got lost once, when I shot off in the other direction, not wanting to be found.

 

Therapy was considered like mental retardation where i came from it wasnt really talked about...i use the walking strategy....it does help Anela.....if only when we were kids but then again you would be who you are now and i kinda like how you post.......your sweet..and i may be messed up but most of the time i am a compassionate mess.....huge hugs to ya.........deb

[mn311601]

Society has lots of double standards that I don't understand.

 

Abortion ok, suicide a cowardly act. One is a choice of a living, breathing person, the other has no choice or say. My body my choice, but not when I want to kill myself, but killing my baby is ok? hmmmm......

[Eclypse]

My fathers side has a history of suicide. One example was in the early 1930s and one of my great great uncles was a charismatic young man and all the girls at school were madly in love with him. He was living it up. However, he had to resort to theft in order to pay for all the dates etc. He got caught and arrested one time. This was a huge shame on the family and small village back then. The stigma was huge and he hung himself a few days later. I think that is a real shame. Most of life's problems can be resolved and people can become happier. Those were the times though, with nowhere near the level of support you'd get now.

 

I do think however, that in certain instances suicide is understandable. For example if one is suffering from a horrible terminal disease, such as bowel cancer. That is pain no one wants to endure and there is no hope of getting better. I know that I personally would end my life in such circumstances. I can only hope that my family would understand. My late grandfather developed alzheimers disease in his 80s. It was heartbreaking to watch him slowly turn from a literate, educated, thoughtful man into first a toddler and then a vegetable. He chose to live until his heart gave out however. I know that I would have killed myself in the early stages.

 

For healthy people I hope that they think long and hard before killing themselves. There is no going back. There is a novella by Stephen King called Apt Pupil where one of the protagonists commits suicide by injesting sleeping pills. He was so sure of his plan up until he felt the darkness rising around him. He tried to fight back and decided he wanted to live. It was too late however... That scene has always stuck with me as one of the most harrowing I have ever read. So Ross, I hope your fortune turns around for the better. You have a good heart and you still have a lot to offer people.

[Ross MwcFan]

Sorry if I've offended anyone who didn't deserve to be offended.

 

And I didn't mean **** 99% of the worlds population, as there's a lot of people who I see as friends and who have been nice to me.

 

I was just feeling in a really bad way last night.

[HeavenOrHell]

I can see that it's selfish, in a way, to end your own life because of how it will affect others, but why should a person stay alive just to keep others happy?

 

I stopped my best friend from killing herself a couple of years ago, but still wonder if that was right or fair of me seeing as she lives every day in pain, agony, misery, and it's unbearable for her and I can't see things ever improving for her.

 

I've had depression/anxiety since I was 3, I have frequent thoughts about ending my life, it's a normal day to day thought for me, I cry most days, again this is normal for me.

 

I've never thrived in life and I'm in my 40's now, I doubt I will ever thrive, life is a daily battle. Some take to it, and even enjoy it, I don't.

 

I feel guilty as I have a far more wonderful life than millions of other people do, but that doesn't negate how I feel. I spend all of my time helping others, which does give my life meaning, but if I could die now by flicking a switch, or could die in my sleep I'd do it.

[Ross MwcFan]

I can see that it's selfish, in a way, to end your own life because of how it will affect others, but why should a person stay alive just to keep others happy?

 

I stopped my best friend from killing herself a couple of years ago, but still wonder if that was right or fair of me seeing as she lives every day in pain, agony, misery, and it's unbearable for her and I can't see things ever improving for her.

 

I've had depression/anxiety since I was 3, I have frequent thoughts about ending my life, it's a normal day to day thought for me, I cry most days, again this is normal for me.

 

I've never thrived in life and I'm in my 40's now, I doubt I will ever thrive, life is a daily battle. Some take to it, and even enjoy it, I don't.

 

I feel guilty as I have a far more wonderful life than millions of other people do, but that doesn't negate how I feel. I spend all of my time helping others, which does give my life meaning, but if I could die now by flicking a switch, or could die in my sleep I'd do it.

 

Hey HeavenOrHell, usually whenever I've imagined saving someone from commiting suicide, it feels as though it would make me feel guilty. It always feels as though I'd have no right to do it, unless I knew for a fact that their despair was just very temporary, and that they'd feel very glad that they didn't do it after all when they're feeling better.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Ross MwcFan