dating habits of Americans

[tokyo]

Americajin,

 

that was a joke with "taking it out on you", but it irritates me a bit if people don´t

know what if they want to stay or leave or whatever. I always have it very clear

and I think I hurt less people with that than people who do it "gently". I compare it

with amputating an arm with a dull knife or chopping it off quickly. It will always be

painful and you will always lose something, but these endless stories are awful.

Sorry in case I´m mistaken about your situation.

[amerikajin]

kooky,

 

I don't take offense to what you wrote and I understand your frustration.

 

The short of it is that, here in Japan, I've dated mainly Japanese and a few Chinese women (as I'm surrounded by them). I've learned that you've got to be careful with women here, because while there are some women who are up on the latest dating trends in the West (and know what to expect), there are many who don't understand what's up when we meet for the first time.

 

And you're right, as of late, it seems like the women I've dated have split on the verge of tears. It makes me feel like an a**h*** sometimes, but then on the other hand, I've also encountered some women who've ditched me unexpectedly - one of whom even told me later that she had gone on a date with me while still having a boyfriend. So I'm confused as to what to expect from women here...I default to the rules that I know. I don't tell women everything about me and my life (especially before getting to know them) because I don't want to be cornered.

 

I pretty much tell them straight up that I'm here to enjoy my time while I'm here and that one day I will leave. I don't say with certainty that I will or won't take them back with me, or spend an eternity with them. Because I don't know one way or another what will happen when I meet someone for the first time. Maybe I meet someone who convinces me to stay with them forever; otherwise, though, I try not to get their hopes up. That, of course, doesn't keep them from getting their hopes up anyway.

 

Believe me, I'm not a heartless jerk, kooky. It's just that I've grown more detached in recent years because I don't want to get hurt and I don't want to hurt other people. The pain that I've put women through by throwing water on their hopes in the time I've been here is minor compared to the breakup I experienced with my ex-fiance a few years ago. That was hell. I loved her, and I know she loved me. I just knew I couldn't live with someone who was so insecure and needed so much power and control. I've been much more careful about rushing into relationship these days, and maybe the result of that has been that I'm too skittish in my dealings with women. I don't know.

[shamen]

Originally posted by kooky

My problem with dates is, I feel pressurized. If I go out with someone I don´t know well yet, it´s because I´m already interested in him. For me, if someone ask for a date, it´s already a strong signal that he is interested and to be honest, that´s too much for me. Too many expectations and I feel like a creep when I´m not interested in a second date, I have scruples to turn people down, I still do, but I feel awful.

 

I would never ask someone out if I wasn´t attracted somehow already and it would make me feel bad if someone goes out with me and then doesn´t want to go further. But maybe I´m taking it too serious. I just know I´d rather hang out with a friend and find out I like him and let things take care of themselves naturally than having a date with him to find out if we are a good match or not. I´m convinced that a only a good friend is a good partner and this is something that I don´t think I would find out if I date someone, because that doesn´t seem to be a normal situation for me.

 

Or maybe I shouldn´t take it so serious and try it out again one day

 

Dating is definitely weird. Turning people down is OK! Nothing wrong with that. I've done it and sometimes I go out with someone once and never see them again.

 

Dating friends though too can be very strange. I've had a very tumultous friendship with a man over six months; a man I've known for probably 6 years. Sometimes I think that this is even more confusing than dating guys I don't know at first (guys that I meet and that ask me out or that I ask out).

 

But, I know that you can try out the dating thing again! It is hard, but it can be fun too. It's a lot about patience and weeding through people. Sounds a little harsh, but man have I been doing some weeding!

[tokyo]

Americajin,

I think the problem which I´m starting to see now at my age (I´m 27, nearly 28) is that everybody has so many scars from bad experiences that they become very careful, less willing to risk something even though they like the other person, and they are also a little bit harder when it comes to breaking up. They are sometimes so afraid to get hurt again that they prefer to hurt someone else. People are losing their innocence with each heartbreak If you like someone and you treat this person worse than other women you had liked the same way you are doing something wrong.

 

I guess, if my ex was more open he would probably say the same as you did and it would have hurt me less and I wouldn´t have been asking myself all the time if it was my fault or not. Maybe it was egoism, maybe he really didn´t want to hurt my feelings.

 

I don´t think that having bad experiences is enough excuse to be inconsiderate. And even though I´m very sorry to hear that your engagement didn´t work out, these other women have nothing to do with it. I was a bit concerned about your view on Japanese women, even though I felt sort of like a smart-alec, because I really don´t know that much about the Japanese society, but my mom once told me about a German guy she met in Vietnam (maybe 30 years ago) and he was trying to arrange some date with a Vietnamese girl. That girl agreed to meet him. My mom later asked him if he was aware what physical contact meant for her social reputation, that she was close to be classified as a prostitute and he was pretty dismayed about that. That much about other cultures, I´m not sure how it is today or in other Asian cultures, but you might not be able to say:"We are both grown-ups and as long as we both want it, it´s ok." They may just not know that much about foreigners and have some funny romantic ideas about you and they may not have had the chance to experience as much as you to aquire a lot of hardiness.

 

I believe if you are not willing to make a complete - I repeat - a compleeete idiot out of yourself you are not in love. And if the other person is willing to do the same for you it´s gonna be great.

 

I admit I do not always have things clear, but I try to.

[tokyo]

Sounds a little harsh, but man have I been doing some weeding!

Yeah, you have been doing some weeding lately I saw your other post

about the porn star. I´m not sure if I´m ready yet for such adventures

[amerikajin]

I understand and appreciate what you're saying, kooky. You raise some valid points.

 

However, I think of romance as a two-way street. It's good for me to know what the expectations are on their end, but it's also good for them to ask questions - it takes two to tango.

 

I don't worry as much about the Japanese women. For the most part, while miscommunication and misunderstanding is still relatively easy, I find that many Japanese women these days have some understanding of what Westerners are after when they date.

 

Chinese women, on the other hand, require more caution. I think their idea of romance more closely fits with what you described above in traditional Vietnam. Physical contact is a big deal; though I'm not sure if it would be considered prostitution, it's usually something that occurs between people who are engaged or married. Only in the past 25 years since Deng Xiaoping opened China have things changed, and many women today haven't been swept up by that.

 

Thanks for making me think.

[tokyo]

Thanks for making me think.

Sure I still don´t agree with you, but that´s ok.

[shamen]

Yeah, kooky, sometimes things can get a little strange! But it's certainly not going to stop me from continuing in the whole dating scene! I enjoy it; all of the conversations I've had have definitely been interesting.

 

PS... Not a porn star exactly, just a porno actor, I think; I'd be highly surprised if he was a big star (how could I not have seen him?)!

[amerikajin]

kook,

 

Clean out your message box, will ya?

[bella123654]

i havent read all of the responses to this discussion but I would just like to comment on a few stereotypes that I find to be true about American men, being raised a die hard New Yorker in America.

 

first of all, i do not like american men, generally speaking. i love my father, and other male family members, but in the dating realm they are absolute ****.

 

i studied in italy for 6 months, and anytime i told anyone i was going to study there all they said was "watch out for the italian men, they're crazy"

 

well to an extent that may be true. but here are a few crucial differences i noticed while studying there

 

1) in any given bar if two men approached you, you could tell who was american and who was not from the first few words they spoke - and no, it wasnt the language that gave it away. it was that the american always had the slurred speech because they were always so intoxicated they could barely focus on your face long enough to ask your name. the non-american, whether italian or not, was always for the most part polite, and i never ever saw someone drunk that wasnt american. it became rather repulsive after awhile, and my friends and i would usually rather talk to any given stranger over an american drunk male we knew.

 

2) dancing - such an erotic and crucial form of expression and communication. whereas men of other nationalities seem to have an innate disposition to know how to dance, american men merely hump your leg in a repititious manner until they think they've done this enough that you will either make out with them on the dance floor or go home with them. i never had a single italian man expect me to leave with him after dancing, they were merely happy i did at all. whereas an american male would take me dancing with him as some 'sign' that i must want to have sex with him, and that was partially due to their inebriated state.

 

3) american males have a tendency to try to make YOU feel like the lucky one, that you should be honored and priviliged to be in their oh so wonderful american presences. they do not know the meaning of chivalry, nor what it means to be a gentlemen. now dont get me wrong, im not saying this is every american male, NOR am i saying that all italian men are respectful because they most certainly are not. i am just citing some observations i had while in a foreign country.

 

anyway after recently getting over my last relationship (with an american who cheated on me after a year and a half) i am currently dating a man from england. he thought at first i was only interested in his accent (which is sexy as hell) but i made him realize that i was interested in him to begin with because i found him extremely attractive and he made me laugh. he made me laugh by approaching me and talking to me and showing interest in me WHILE SOBER! novel idea for an american male in college.

 

anyway im just rambling now, just wanted to share a few thoughts...

and no i dont hate american men, but i do think my social age group has much maturing to do in the realm of women.

[Adunaphel]

Bella, if you don't mind me asking, what italian city were you studying in? Just curious.

 

It was funny to read your post, because some friends of mine who worked/studied in the US for an amount of time were delighted with 'how chivalrous american guys were' (even if the american 'dating rules' sort of baffled them).

 

I might be absolutely wrong, but I am getting the idea that guys from every nation tend to be nicer to foreign ladies than they would be with their female connationals.

[bella123654]

I might be absolutely wrong, but I am getting the idea that guys from every nation tend to be nicer to foreign ladies than they would be with their female connationals.

 

i would have to absolutely agree with you on that!

 

also a quick note in reference to movies reflecting american culture, to an extreme extent i think they do a rather wonderful job of exploiting how american teen culture functions. although the movie 'american pie' takes everything to an extreme, i think their basic stereotypes of people are extremely accurate. i think its unfortunate that people label america by our pop culture, only because its true, and quite frankly its embarassing sometimes

[bella123654]

also, i was in firenze

[Adunaphel]

Originally posted by bella123654

also, i was in firenze

 

Oh, i fiorentini ....they are the best!

I also love the sound of their accent.

[YellowLioness]

I think that Americans are very childlike compared with several other cultures, primarily because we have a very peaceful homeland, and have not had to deal with the strife that other countries have had to.

 

This is just a personal opinion.

 

When it comes to dating, from what I've found anyway, most American men tend to enjoy the romance of dating, but when it comes to the "real work" ie. working through fights, differences in opinions, etc, they'd just rather find someone who is more like them, because it's less work.

 

The "passion" is fun for a while, but if you are with someone who is very different from you,

 

Maybe that's just people in general, though.

[tokyo]

--drinking: I´ve never noticed that American men drank so much. In fact, in Spain where I studied for two semesters it´s the British who have such a bad reputation concerning hygiene and drinking. In Mallorca I think it´s the Germans who the bad reputation of drinking excessively.

 

--dancing: Hm, my ex really danced well, much much better than I do. And my Spanish friends always made fun of the Germans who dance like robots

 

Most Americans I met were ok, meanwhile I always thought Italian men are kind of funny....

[bella123654]

concerning drink & dancing - you must realize my opinions are based on COLLEGE males, which do NOT represent american males as a whole....... in fact, college males seem almost to be an entirely different species of american men

[amerikajin]

Sooner or later, college men stop wearing diapers and they go out and get jobs.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by bella123654

concerning drink & dancing - you must realize my opinions are based on COLLEGE males, which do NOT represent american males as a whole....... in fact, college males seem almost to be an entirely different species of american men

I think I start to understand what you mean. I heard that before, that American students drink a lot, especially those who go to the elite universities. I heard the same about Cambridge and Oxford students. They drink because of stress and because of the strict regulations concerning drinking for minors. I´m not sure about the age limit now, but drinking is nothing really special here, so I guess you don´t have to catch up with anything. Also German students are usually older than the average American student and therefore a bit more mature. A British guy once told me that he thought their students are pretty immature in comparison with German students also due to the age.

[tokyo]

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