Bedtime confessional, now unsure

[redleader]

I have a friend that I have known and been close to for nearly 4 years, who was one of the first people I met when I moved to another state following an epic disaster relationship. I first met her when I was working briefly and she didn't seem my type really, but we met again later with a casual post on Craigslist that I replied to (i know...) and we spent the night together. What was a one night thing became a strong friendship with benefits. We have always been attracted to each other physically and emotionally, though when I came here I was a broken person emotionally and not ready to try again. Until now my shields have been up, but she found a way past it which I have finally admitted in full.

 

Our relationship has been a rollercoaster of sorts and not without some warcrimes between us, one of us would have a boy/girlfriend for a short time and end up back with each other after those things didn't work out. We stopped and restarted a few times, though I started feeling it getting harder each time we went through the cycle. The last end was a little over a year ago, and in that time we were just friends, though I would still sleep with her sometimes without sex.

 

My last job that I recently quit created a situation that left me completely burned out after a few years struggling with the aftermath of my last relationship (lost my job, nearly became an alcoholic, my ex warped my mind, came to my new home with absolutely nothing and no identity, with what I think was legitimate post traumatic stress). In the end I severely gave up for all of 2012, and pretty much stopped having a social life. She was one of the very few I kept in contact with. Now I have some insecurities with myself because I have put on some weight after a year of bad food, booze, and complete apathy that I am now beginning to change finally. During this time I had a few mental meltdowns and severe anxiety, in the end 2012 was not kind to me. I never told her how I really felt because she was one of the only things I cared about that I still had, and I didn't want to risk screwing that up too if she didn't feel the same.

 

This entire time I was subjected to her other suitors which naturally left me feeling jealous of her adventures and these other men and realizing I felt more for her than just friends. She has always been candid and truthful with me, to the point that I know she has been with several other men, at least 20x what I have. I have long struggled with this, as my town is not large and I know a few of them, sometimes leading to a feeling of disgust by her choices, because some of these men are weak men to me, and I dont get what she sees in them. I was upset with her a year ago because of a party we had in my home for her birthday, and most of the guests were her guy friends she had been with and watched them all fawn all over her all night. We talked about it the next day as she noticed I was upset (and with the party itself too), in the end she knew with that if we were going to be friends she needed to respect my feelings too in this regard. I have never done that to her before. Though I really can't say anything about her choices as I was doing the exact same thing, just with less frequency as I never really tried, women usually came to me without much effort. I havn't lately because I just grew tired of it hitting my 30th year on this Earth, realizing I needed to change my priorities and all of these cheap relationships were not satisfying anymore, and the only one I really wanted to be with was her.

 

Recently, after a year of playing it cool and maintaining, just working on being a good friend, which she had others she was with and so did I until a few months ago when I cut off every one of those relationships, while both in bed ready to pass out we finally both admitted there was more to us than what we had been, in her own words she said for her we had been on hold, and over anyone else I always had the priority for a deeper relationship, and I know this possibility had been in her mind throughout our friendship. We started a conversation about it long ago that we never finished. She also admitted a few other things that affected our relationship that I never knew about, which was sensitive stuff that I am glad she finally told me, she wasn't sure how before which I assume she didn't want to hurt me.

 

So basically our feelings are out in the open now, but she has some other companions at the moment and said she wasn't sure about picking just one right now. I find her in my thoughts constantly, somewhere between missing her and jealous, letting my mind run wild with imagining her with someone else, and what those men have over me which feeds into my own insecurities and not feeling good enough or strong enough. At this point I'm not sure what is going on, or what to do now. I want to reach out to her a lot but I don't want to be clingy and respect her space and that her business is hers alone unless she decides to include me. I'm not really sure what she wants between us now, and I find myself with looping thoughts of increasing anxiety running these scenarios in my head that I am struggling to stop.

 

I am trying to maintain focus on my new goals in starting my own business and getting physically fit again, which I know both will do well for my self esteem and confidence after letting myself waste away for all of 2012 doing absolutely nothing of value for anyone. I do feel I really am not good enough for her because I have basically been phoning in a half effort in life in general the last year. I know I can do better, and I must do better for myself, and she will see that as I rise above and plug back into the world with a vengeance. She isn't the reason for this restart of my life, but she is someone that motivates me to try harder. When I came to this state broken she helped me find my way, challenged my perceptions and myself, and I have many good memories and experiences with her. I'm not sure she sees how she helped mold me into what I have become now. She is important to me, which she knows directly now.

 

I am a bit worried in that once I get back into the line of work I was in before, which is stage work for concert events at local venues, I will begin meeting a lot of new people again, and be in the same position as she is now. In a way we have always just been out of phase with our relationships, I fear it might be that way again, and moreso that we can't keep doing this forever as it gets harder and harder for me. I don't want our friendship to be destroyed but I am not sure how to approach this now. We have always been there for each other, I think she knows she can trust me more than anyone else and has seen me go above and beyond for her, and despite her many boyfriends I am the only consistent and mature man in her life, which she did admit herself once. I suppose all I want to know from her is whether I should let those thoughts go, or if she does indeed want to take things up a notch with me. Relationship limbo is in effect it seems, though I am still just trying to play it cool and not be forceful, just letting things play out naturally. But there are times like now when I stay up way too late trying to combat these recursive thoughts and distract myself from my worry. Being in a real relationship again is also a terrifying thought regardless due to my past, now that the cat is out of the bag there is no going back, so that isn't helping either.

 

Writing things out like this always helps to hone down my thoughts, but any advice is welcome.

[NoMagicBullet]

Lord love a duck, these on/off FWB relationships drive me nuts. When will people learn to avoid this ambiguous crap? I almost think in your case, it's impaired both you and this girl's relationship skills in moving toward an exclusive relationship with each other.

 

It's simply really: when both parties have confessed that they would like something more with each other, that is the time they drop all the other people the've been seeing and focus on each other.

 

Words mean nothing without actions. She doesn't want to choose you over her other guys just yet? Barf. You want to be exclusive with her, and she doesn't want that yet -- or she just wants to keep you as an option for when she's done playing around, but who knows what things will be like later. If she's not choosing you now after the confessions, can you really be sure she will choose you later, whenever that is?

 

Your choice right now is to either put up with it indefinitely or walk. Not what you want to hear, but she's not giving you the choice you really want.

[redleader]

Yeah this stuff has been crossing my mind, it has seemed like I have been around as the faithful backup when her tires of her current worthless idiot man friend. Even lately it seems she either isn't that interested in seeing me, or she is really busy, which it could be either or knowing her life.

 

I sense in myself growing distance now as I don't want to get myself hurt, and I am by no means saving myself for her either. If another comes along in the near future she will lose her chance with me. She is well aware I am a free agent right now. But if it is not to be Im not sure I can be her friend anymore, in the end I have elected to rid myself of every other woman in my life because I am just tired of being jacked around.

 

I have decided just to give it a little time, let this idea drill into her a bit and see what she decides, but indefinitely it wont be for me. If she doesn't tell me something very soon I will continue to put space between us, and I know she will realize it. I don't feel like her telling me these things then expecting me to just deal is fair that she is still with other people. I have no problem making her pay the price for that soon by pulling away at mach 5, maybe it is time to really move on from her then.

 

I can agree we have both screwed this up with each other and stopped our growth for stupid immature superficial BS that both of us are guilty for.

 

I may just give her the ultimatum that I need to know something and I need to know right now, and if not she can watch me walk away from her for good. I know in my heart I can't keep doing this with her, I feel it is time to put up or shut up. I am prepared for either. I know if this continues I will just resent her and and despise anyone I know she is with, and I will need time at least to dip my wick elsewhere and let those feelings fade out before being any kind of friend again.

 

Perhaps I have also grown tired of being the hero for her in a way. She can go find herself a different man who is inferior to me in every way, and I won't be around to hear her bitch about it either.

[TaraMaiden]

You don't need to say anything to her at all.

Your actions will say it all.

Either stay close to her, and keep on doing what you've been doing - or drop off her radar, and let her go on her way, and about her business without your ultimatum ringing in her ears.

She's already made it clear, really, hasn't she?

So why an ultimatum?

 

Why give an ultimatum to someone who really - doesn't need an ultimatum, because as far as she's concerned, she's already given you her decision...?

 

No point.

 

The choice is yours.

Put up with and shut up - or start walking.

[redleader]

I guess you are right, she has decided it seems.

 

I feel maybe it would be best to spend more time with her before really deciding anything, as with the holiday ruckus we havnt really for a couple weeks since we talked. But that is over now, there shouldn't be any excuses.

 

Though at the same time my distance will grow regardless unless she gives me a reason not to, and she will see it louder and clearer than any words would. Having an escape trajectory seems prudent at this juncture, but I wont leave orbit just yet, I feel we owe each other that much at least to give it a chance, especially as we have not had the chance to talk about it any further or even spend time together lately, though whether that is because she has been too busy, or decided to be with someone else, is what I am not clear on, and don't wish to keep dwelling on.

 

The only part that is making me a little nuts is how contradictory her decision seems. Essentially it sounds like she would be with me alone over anyone else and this was never not a possibility for her since we've known each other, which is exactly what she told me, but won't just do that right now because she already had some things going on when this all came out into the open finally, and unexpectedly I think. Ladies, any thoughts on what this means?

 

The choice is simple, go or stay, the choice that isn't simple is how quickly or slowly I should do either one. Just walking away isn't that easy with how long we have known each other now. It isn't some vapor relationship that is only a couple months old. Choosing to make or break a pretty good and long friendship seems something to do carefully, because regardless I still care about her. She has always shot me straight about who she is, so it isnt like I didn't know leading up to this moment. But now we took it across the line with each other into dangerous territory...

Edited January 4, 2013 by redleader

[redleader]

I think I have decided I am going to start refusing to be any kind of intimate with her if she is going to hym and haw with me, nor will I reach out to her now, the message will be pretty clear I think with that. She pushed me away, so I will keep going that way and let her chase me for a change should she wish to, I dont really care if she does or not.

 

I think her problem is she is pretty smart and has a wolf like attitude toward sex, which she has told me herself she was in it more for the hunt than the aftermath, and most men she is with are stupid and immature so she can mess with them in this way without them retaliating because they are too weak to, lets face it a lot of men stay in bad relationships because of this. But I think she knows I am not one of them either, Ive been around this long because of it as I watched her go through others like tissue paper. And I will no longer be around because I am smart and not too weak to leave.

 

I can't be pre-occupied with this any longer as there is work I need to focus on that doesn't include her, or anyone else for that matter. I am doing that for me alone. It might be the fact I quit smoking today (Im heavy, this is probably going to really suck by tomorrow), but as I feel my own power grow within as I reforge my entire existence to my real standards, Im done screwing around with every aspect. I feel my aggression increasing with every day, I want to be my own kind of wolf and I don't need her in my way if that is how it is going to be.

 

Thanks for your replies, sorry for the length of my posts. For this reason my new career is partially involved in writing...but venting this out has helped.

[NoMagicBullet]

I think you've made an excellent decision, redleader. I think it's great that you have put it in the perspective that it's part of an overall change of life for you, a change for the better. Good luck on staying away from both the cigs and Wolfwoman -- it'll be tough, but it'll be worth the effort in what you gain in physical, mental, and emotional health and well-being.

[redleader]

Yeah bullet, this may be exactly why things have changed now, at least for me.

 

Before we were the same person, working out **** jobs and sleeping around, but now she is still content with a contingent of other men and work drama, I am rising above children's games.

 

What I have really decided in the end is I have better things to do than validate myself with her. I am in a position now to be anything she wants me to be, but will not always be so with my current efforts. In that we are beyond me chasing her, and competing against other men and work bs for her attention, I have no desire for this. If she wants to be my friend at least these are the conditions I have set in my head. If she wants more then we'll talk about it someday, but I might be in another place by then and it is what it is.

 

As said I have an additional problem of my mind firehosing itself, and I knew this was the case in many ways. I dwell because I am jealous if anything of her success finding other mates, I want to know why I'm not what she thinks about anymore in that way (we used to be that passionate), where I grew to have none at all with a ****ty job I hated which burned me completely out emotionally and stopped me meeting new people, so my only focal point in this regard is her that intensifies her meaning to me.

 

But the other night she hit me up just wanting to hang out, as I am helping fix her computer that has her writing on it (IT guy by trade till now). She said her house was too distraction filled to be creative in. When she came I was zero pressure, I let her do what she wanted to do. We watched some of a movie later and passed out. We've always enjoyed eachother's company regardless of the context.

 

In the end this is really defining her value to me personally. Perhaps I need to accept that her sexual relationships are superficial, and our emotional connection however is not at this point. I think she values me in a different way than where we started, where so many others failed to keep her attention long I have.

 

I am all about my new journey anyway, with or without her I am still going to be fine because I have what she can never take from me. I believe in letting things play out naturally, as far as I am concerned now she did make her choice, mine is to simply put my feelings in that way in cold storage and continue with my life mission with or without her, and be just a good friend as we always have been through thick and thin.

 

I guess I have just come to a pass in my life, deciding what really is important or what lengths I am willing to go to keep it. Though at the same time I have also become iron clad, I would hate to see her go, but I will do what I must to not hurt myself as well. I don't think she really knows herself what we are, and that is OK. It is time to still move on like a steamroller, whatever she thinks she knows about me, or at least whoever I was when she met me is dead and buried. She will see my new path soon enough, then it will be her choice to jump on the train or miss it completely, if that train is even still in the station at all.

 

To note, 4 days strong in not smoking after 4 years , it does become less a stinger in you mind each day. For this not only will I be healthier, but able to start working out and getting back in shape with purpose. I did tell her about this effort, only the start of some massive changes for me.

Edited January 8, 2013 by redleader

[NoMagicBullet]

Congrats on 4 days and counting!

 

One more suggetion from me: as your life changes progress and become more noticeable, perhaps have a serious talk with her about where you are going in life and the part you were hoping she'd play in it. If you've know each other all these years, and do have a real friendship in addition to the benefits, I can't see that you'd have anything to lose if you expect that she is going in a different direction than you are. Maybe she still wouldn't be ready to change her lifestyle, but you could let her know that if she ever decides she wants to get serious with one man and she wants that one man to be you, to look you up then. No guarantees, of course -- you may be with someone else by that time -- but you never know what may happen in the future.

[redleader]

Thanks Quitting is no joke though, to which I have avoided making any serious life decisions as my brain and body level out to where I am sleeping well again and not feeling like an angry hummingbird

 

In the end that is kind of where we left it. She said it wasn't off the table, and it never was. My only real admission to her was I was actually ready for more if she wants that with me now or someday, where I wasn't emotionally available that way before when it came up in the beginning. When she met me I was a complete wreck fresh off of a devastating relationship and the series of events that followed, so I just couldn't go there with anyone for quite some time, leading to many random girls that never panned out. But that was a couple years ago, I have discovered a bunch of things this last year to where I can open up finally because my confidence and mission are solid, now she knows that, and how I feel. It is out of my hands beyond how I choose to react to her in the mean time, if it is driving me up the wall it might be time to let her go. As long as she understands at this point I am not going to chase her around we will be just fine I think, and will see what the future holds.

[NoMagicBullet]

In the end that is kind of where we left it. She said it wasn't off the table, and it never was. My only real admission to her was I was actually ready for more if she wants that with me now or someday, where I wasn't emotionally available that way before when it came up in the beginning. ....

 

This is one of those times where I'm glad my advice wasn't useful, because you're already ahead of it. Best of luck to you, redleader!

[redleader]

Yeah I tend to know the answer all along, just takes some digging to get to it But your advice is not useless, in fact its good to have validation of my mindset.

 

Though we had an interesting conversation tonight, following me asking her if she wanted to hang as I was at home alone and feeling a little nuts. She wanted to know if she could talk to me, and what I thought about her. Honestly I was hoping for this to happen tonight that we could talk more. It turns out I have been on her mind as much as she has mine, which is comforting in a way as I thought I was starting to lose it a little and obsessing too much.

 

As it turns out we feel exactly the same about each other right now. Our relationship is totally ambiguous in not just friends but not more either now after our recent hook up after over a year of being casual friends. We both had the same wonder if we made a mistake, because we both know we can't take it back this time even if we might want to now. She did go on to say that she knows she ended what used to be a very passionate sex life with me, something she came to regret, and her problem now is not so much acknowledging her feelings toward me but has been unable to rekindle this passion for me in that way, but she really wishes she could. We have admitted that our emotional walls fell down for each other though. I told her that I never told her how I felt for so long just because she was one of the only people I had left in my life to look forward to, and I didn't want to mess it up with the rest of my life. But my feelings did start seeping out more and more which she noticed.

 

One thing I think we both agreed on was the question of lack of that raw fire we used to have is likely the simple fact we have not really spent any special or quality time together for pretty much all of 2012. Before we used to have a lot more adventures together and she could barley keep her hands off of me, eventually after our last split it just became smoking J and watching TV once a week somewhere. For my birthday in November she took me out on a very nice date, which I really liked, and it made me miss doing things like that with her. I think she misses that too, obviously Netflix isn't exactly a firestarter for a relationship...so I think we're decided to be more dedicated in actually doing interesting things together again and see if some sparks fly to rebuild what we started out to be. The emotional component is there for something more between us, just that burning desire we once had hasn't been lit in a long time since she snuffed it out for her own good according to her. This is understandable to me, every FWB situation comes to a natural end eventually, when one person wants more and the other does not, or just move on emotionally/physically to someone else. By her own admission she has always had trouble keeping that passion with someone. Though after nearly 4 years I think she sees something here she has not with anyone before me, and I to her, and she seems willing to try to get back what we lost. Bound by some cosmic force neither of us can explain really that has kept us together so far through it all. There is a certain sense that we both owe it to each other to put in the effort now and see what happens.

 

 

 

Though where exactly it goes from here I have no idea, other than to move patiently and carefully. She has other complications to work out on her own, from things that were in place before we re-engaged this way, and I will give her the space to do that on her own terms as we start exploring the world with each other again. I suppose that is why we have persisted for a long as we have, always in the same boat, even if we might paddle in opposite directions sometimes...

[NoMagicBullet]

Great that you've had that convo with her.

 

I'm not sure, but I kind of wonder if she's been chasing that "fire" with lots of different guys because the "fire" dwindles after a while with the same person. Just a guess, but maybe the lack of spark (apart from her dousing it, for whatever reasons, if I understood that correctly) is somewhat normal at this point because you are both familiar/comfortable with each other. Not that you can't get it back, I think, with some effort on both sides.

 

The long-time married and partnered who still have good sex lives would be a better source of advice than I. (My longest-term relationship had very little sex, it wasn't good, and my bf didn't care about it getting better. Needless to say, that wasn't going to last.)

[redleader]

I hate to say I know she has, which is why that made a lot of sense. Though with us she said essentially she put us out herself because I think it was getting too real for her and not because she was just tired of me like her throwaways, and probably for me too at the time so we took it a step back but were still close friends.

 

Though I think just in saying she regrets ending it with me that way and is willing to try to get it back by doing things as a couple like we used to, there is still passion there from her to me. If not this would not be happening right now I think. We just haven't exercised that passion in so long it is faded now as we just phoned it in for a year basically and didn't dare speak of this. It was very evident all of this stuff has been on her mind for a long time as it has mine though.

 

In the end I think we really care about each other which is getting in the way, strange to say but true I believe, in that we are afraid we're going to hurt each other so getting to this point of being very honest with each other with our feelings finally has been a slow ride. We both knew I think that if we went back to this place there was no going back, now we are both doubting ourselves a bit as to whether that was a good idea, but it doesn't matter now.

 

I am as terrified as she is to make a mistake as things are delicate right now. We are in a position with each other where our shields are down, the damage will be real if things go wrong, where before there was always that emotional padding.

 

At the start we both just looked at each other, not saying anything, but we both knew what we were feeling at that moment without saying a word...a mutual sense of "...well, what the hell do we do now" realizing something has to give. Put the chips all in or fold our hands.

 

At the end she thanked me for being patient with her, I only replied with the same sentiment for being patient with me too.

Edited January 10, 2013 by redleader

[NoMagicBullet]

I am as terrified as she is to make a mistake as things are delicate right now. We are in a position with each other where our shields are down, the damage will be real if things go wrong, where before there was always that emotional padding.

 

Yeah, that's a scary place. Mistakes probably will be made, but it doesn't sound like either of you would intentionally hurt the other. I hope things can slowly progress between you two.

[redleader]

It might be the fact I havnt really slept in a week (quit smoking...and it wasn't good before that anyway lately, im nearly polyphasic now between insomnia and getting too cerebral with this and other stuff), but I already feel my mind manufacturing BS to ruin this already.

 

I know this cycle well in me though I have never conquered it.

 

It goes excitement to over thought, over thought to doubts and dwelling on problems that do not exist I made up, and doubts to mistakes that screw it all up. So scared to make a mistake I make one anyway trying to avoid it...how does one not do that to themselves?

 

I had to tell her today that at very least I was having trouble judging if im giving her too much space or not enough, and I really like talking to her obviously but worry about being annoying as her life is busy outside of myself and I know this. Her reply was toward "no worries you know me", though I wasn't very comforted by that. I conceded that my brain is playing tricks on me.

 

I think I am starting to dwell a bit on the fact she is still with others right now, I wish I knew more what her intent is there but is still too early for me to make an issue of it. We dropped like a bomb in the middle of her other consorts, she has her own choices to make there which I can't justify rushing her to do because it wouldn't be fair. But still... I left all of my other flings in the dust a while ago so I do not have this problem myself to deal with. I respect that she does though and I know she is out of her comfort zone like I am with some important decisions to make.

 

Might just be my exhaustion messing with me, I did not feel good today at all. I feel so thought obsessed it is actually throwing off my focus on other things. I know at this tired all of my thoughts seem very loud and uncontrolled, emotions and excitement are running hot in me as I am discovering: I really, really missed her and what we had, the prospect of reigniting our relationship has me foaming at the mouth as I struggle to define my life otherwise. Everything is in flux...