Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)

[todreaminblue]

Absolutely not, as most of the commentary posted here is based wholly on the experiences encountered within the context of a M or R with a PD. It would serve no purpose to suggest anything of the sort that they just stay home and do nothing to find happiness. The awareness afforded to individuals by the experience is perhaps a healthy relative topic worth discussion and super helpful to the non-pd wondering what the hell is going on in their R.

 

As outlined by some of us who have first hand experience of the aftermath of a failed R we are generally the ones left picking up the pieces after a tazmanian devil ripped our worlds apart left wondering what the hell just happened?

 

It is imperative that the PD conscious individual understand the detrimental effect the disorder can wreak havoc in an R or M but, in no way suggests that the PD disordered person with no knowledge of their condition should abstain from engaging new relationships. Most often, the disordered individual does not think anything is wrong with their gaslighting, emotional blackmail, baiting circular arguments, verbal abuse, and the list goes on however they refuse to accept the consequences for the acting out behavior. Everybody deserves to be loved - but NOT DESTROYED.

 

That is what's perhaps so insidious about the BPD traits. They simply do not think anything is wrong - when in fact the evidence is quite to the contrary.

 

 

I dont think the trait of not knowing how you affect somebody and having people rip through your world like tasmanian devils is only attributable to people with mental illness....a lot fo normal or so called normal people can be cruel and heartless.........

 

 

 

the difference is they do it because they just dont give a crap they know what they are doing is wrong they just dont care....there is knowledge of right and wrong and there is absence of knowledge of right and wrong or skewed perception of right and wrong.......i was wrong to assume that bpd was bi polar disorder....and not borderline personality disorder........so yes i had it wrong....but mental illness is nor a justification to treat someone badly nor is a disorder ...but then nor is being normal and not giving a crap ...there are too many borderlines of ambiguity in mental illness....ambiguous diagnosis, i think if people accept people for people and not what condition they have its a start.....work on the person not the problem because who the **** knows if thediagnosed it right in the first place not only that but every person is different and reacts to stimuli in different ways....you cant block into a box and say ok these are the symptoms and this is the treatment and these are signs of this disorder they all coincide some of them really closely.

 

 

i think sometimes i am a multiple....i hear voices,i have hallucinations dont remember things i have said and done, and other times have deja vu exact places conversations people talking to me.... i black out sometimes i have flashbacks, these are times i have been physically abused, because i actually am not there when it happens i can go away.........i am not a multiple i'm schizo affective...APPARENTLY..truth is i don't know what i am just i do know, who i am and what and who i stand up for....and that is deserving and worthwhile......thanks for your post.........deb

[M30USA]

Having been on the receiving end of a BPD and Narc's treatment, I personally have a very hard time agreeing that these folks are deserving of love and compassion from nons. IMO/E, they don't deserve anything from me except the sight of my back as I run from them. Period.

 

Also, you "went nuts" again going off about mental illness. BPD isn't a mental illness.

 

I agree. I also think BPDers whose family supports them 100% are actually being done a disservice and LESS likely to recover. If people keep telling you "you're okay" and "we love you no matter what", why WOULD you change? Nobody would!

[bpdr]

I agree. I also think BPDers whose family supports them 100% are actually being done a disservice and LESS likely to recover. If people keep telling you "you're okay" and "we love you no matter what", why WOULD you change? Nobody would!

 

What you say is nearly verbatim true for my ex and her relationship to her family. Anxiety and Histrionic Personality traits diagnosis - run deep with the mother and grandmother - but also the Aunt takes many meds to "Have a good day" type of mentality. I never knew ANY of this until AFTER the fact, and had I known it - I would have ran to the high hills away from it.

 

There is a history with her father having bi-polar, and substance abuse. A younger brother diagnosed with bi-polar, and these people are all related to a rather well known musician, most of you might know with his own set of issues within this family as well. Although I tend to agree that there are cruel individuals capable of this sort of thing - I have to disagree that these people actually know WHY they are screwed up. I say that, because several of them openly admit that this behavior is dysfunctional - and simply dismiss it as being "Her special condition" -- There is a distinctive denial that permeates the entire family, when in actuality - diagnosis is confirmed and members of the family are currently in one form of treatment or another. But, they have each others back on it. And, that being the case - condone the behavior to a much larger degree because it has been so persistent with the family ranks for so very long - nobody wants to be the bad guy that causes another "Big Drama" (Although they occur frequently to the tune of at least three per month) followed by long periods of dissociated grudge holding - until one breaks the silence, to forgive and forget. Yet all of the crazymaking get's lost in the shuffle - and nothing is ever truly resolved.

 

Never seen anything quite like it -- and absolutely convinced they are all crazy. Nothing about it - is remotely considered normal. Dysfunctional at best. Even then - there is a potential for violence if you just scratch under the surface. Crazymaking, gaslighting and definitely BPD Cluster #B high functioning, with a cross of histrionic and NPD.

[CptSaveAho]

Never seen anything quite like it -- and absolutely convinced they are all crazy. Nothing about it - is remotely considered normal. Dysfunctional at best. Even then - there is a potential for violence if you just scratch under the surface. Crazymaking, gaslighting and definitely BPD Cluster #B high functioning, with a cross of histrionic and NPD.

 

To them, that is their norm, so they are in essence, normal in their own environments

 

Whats sad is people know they are going to get screwed over years down the road continue relationships with people like this. Sorry but its not your ex's fault... you're 50% responsible for 100% of the relationship.

 

Every single person here, knew that at one point that their significant other was not normal by any means but continue to date/enter a relationship/and even marry them. After the fact, oh lets slam labels on to them to prevent me from looking like a dumb ass

 

Coming here and grieving and posting about it is a healthy thing, but to label every person, breakup etc as a googled sofa psychologist bpd(er) etc is not healthy in helping people move on. It actually does the opposite effect. Keeps people in a holding pattern and reliving the breakup over and over and over again for years

 

It is imperative that the PD conscious individual understand the detrimental effect the disorder can wreak havoc in an R or M but, in no way suggests that the PD disordered person with no knowledge of their condition should abstain from engaging new relationships. Most often, the disordered individual does not think anything is wrong with their gaslighting, emotional blackmail, baiting circular arguments, verbal abuse, and the list goes on however they refuse to accept the consequences for the acting out behavior. Everybody deserves to be loved - but NOT DESTROYED.

 

That is what's perhaps so insidious about the BPD traits. They simply do not think anything is wrong - when in fact the evidence is quite to the contrary.

 

While you might not agree with the bold and underlined statement, this is how these people have learned to cope with the real world. Technically, there's nothing wrong with it in their eyes and they shouldn't have to apologize for being them.

 

In essence, you are comparing yourself as a person able to walk to these people who are paralyzed and have to use a wheel chair. I don't know about you, but I'm strong enough not to get my life destroyed by someone in a wheel chair

Edited January 7, 2013 by CptSaveAho

[bpdr]

To them, that is their norm, so they are in essence, normal in their own environments

 

Whats sad is people know they are going to get screwed over years down the road continue relationships with people like this. Sorry but its not your ex's fault... you're 50% responsible for 100% of the relationship.

 

Every single person here, knew that at one point that their significant other was not normal by any means but continue to date/enter a relationship/and even marry them. After the fact, oh lets slam labels on to them to prevent me from looking like a dumb ass

 

Coming here and grieving and posting about it is a healthy thing, but to label every person, breakup etc as a googled sofa psychologist bpd(er) etc is not healthy in helping people move on. It actually does the opposite effect. Keeps people in a holding pattern and reliving the breakup over and over and over again for years

 

Can't agree more. Had to be something wrong with us to attract such a partner to begin with - no doubt. But, labels thrown in to justify 50% of 100% of the relationship for the sake of condoning the acting out behaviors cannot possibly explain the abnormal conditions created by these behaviors. Anyone without beer goggles on - can clearly make a distinction between acceptable behavior and acting out behaviors.

 

It is perhaps true - that in their environment, this behavior seems perfectly normal - but it is not - and by their own admission. And it's not by just one individual, but rather several related family members that are being treated for a multitude of PD and anxiety traits with various forms of IC and Meds.

 

Like I said before - knowledge is power here. And in this particular case - an ounce of prevention - might have been worth a pound of cure had I more knowledge on the subject at the time. Experiences speak volumes after the fact and perhaps some knowledge here - might help others better identify what exactly is up. Afterall, you are CaptSaveAho and you do have a point to make, and we should all take note. Cheers!

[todreaminblue]

Having been on the receiving end of a BPD and Narc's treatment, I personally have a very hard time agreeing that these folks are deserving of love and compassion from nons. IMO/E, they don't deserve anything from me except the sight of my back as I run from them. Period.

 

Also, you "went nuts" again going off about mental illness. BPD isn't a mental illness.

 

 

 

borderline personality disorder is a disorder isnt it? where does the personality of a person exist......what is the definition of disorder and where does that disorder exist?.....is it a disorder situated in the big toe or the pinkie finger ....this disorder is often misdiagnosed by the way ....they cant put a handle on it.....

 

you have the right to cut and run, i respect your rights...doesn't mean i agree with you ...like you dont agree with me.... you can have your opinion as i have a right to mine.....and that chance to say what i feel like saying.....even if that means making a mistake and apologizing after when i figure it out......even if i look like a total fruitcake....i have that right....to look like one and add extra sultanas if i choose to ...have a great day.....cheers...deb

Edited January 7, 2013 by todreaminblue

[Emilia]

BPD doesn't define the person. How someone deals with their BPD and whether they have the chance to ever recover will depend on their underlying intelligence, intellect and character. Every single person on this planet is different and every single person with BPD is different. In my experience it's an extreme case of anxiety where the person that suffers from it never learns the ability to soothe themselves, or at least not without help. Some - especially men - implode rather than explode hence the reason why it is seen as something that women develop. It's a dysfunction where anxiety affects your thought process to a degree that it can blind you to obvious rational explanations that the rest of us see.

[revitup]

Excellent analysis,short and to the point.

[M30USA]

BPD doesn't define the person. How someone deals with their BPD and whether they have the chance to ever recover will depend on their underlying intelligence, intellect and character. Every single person on this planet is different and every single person with BPD is different. In my experience it's an extreme case of anxiety where the person that suffers from it never learns the ability to soothe themselves, or at least not without help. Some - especially men - implode rather than explode hence the reason why it is seen as something that women develop. It's a dysfunction where anxiety affects your thought process to a degree that it can blind you to obvious rational explanations that the rest of us see.

 

Anxiety is NOT the driving force with BPD. I've read books by the experts who say the driving forces are: inability to distinguish ones own thoughts from those of another, lack of remorse/guilt, and fear of abandonment.

 

I strongly oppose your idea of anxiety because then it makes the person with BPD look like the poor victim who needs to be helped--thus continuing the problem.

[M30USA]

Excellent analysis,short and to the point.

 

And wrong. Contrary to any books by professionals that I've read on the subject.

[Emilia]

Anxiety is NOT the driving force with BPD. I've read books by the experts who say the driving forces are: inability to distinguish ones own thoughts from those of another, lack of remorse/guilt, and fear of abandonment.

 

I strongly oppose your idea of anxiety because then it makes the person with BPD look like the poor victim who needs to be helped--thus continuing the problem.

 

read the bolded, that's what anxiety is and this is what drives a BPD sufferer the most

[Emilia]

And wrong. Contrary to any books by professionals that I've read on the subject.

 

perhaps you wish to re-read them again, especially the definition of anxiety

 

you don't help a sufferer by enforcing their victimhood by the way, you help them - if possible - by enabling them to realise it's all in their head and how much their thought process controls them.

 

you kinda need more to understand this than just reading books

[Eternal Sunshine]

I need to correct some misconceptions in this thread.

 

Bipolar disorder is not treatable by any means. It IS manageable with heavy medication but that is very different to "treatable". It severely affects relationships and is a mental illness that is managed by a psychiatrist.

 

Borderline personality disorder IS treatable in some cases and not so much in others. Generally, it starts in late teens and can go away by itself as a person gets older and becomes more confident in their identity. It is a personality disorder rather than a mental illness and is managed by a psychologist. DBT has been shown as the most effective treatment of BPD, with no medication needed.

[Mack05]

I agree with everything CaptainSaveaho. BPder and Emelia have said. Firstly I agree with Emelia's post about anxiety, fear of abandonment. My ex used to and probably still does takes meds for anxiety. I believe as Emelia says anxiety, FOA is what drives the BPD sufferer the most. The signs for me are now easily recognisable before the verbal abuse, gaslighting, projecting, manipulation and the distorting the actual version events start. Anxiety sufferer, traumatic childhood, attracted to codependents (me) or Narcs.

 

Capt made a great point on this thread. The aftermath of my last breakup forced me to REALLY look at myself and my faults. Its no longer acceptable to say my ex's were the problem and move on. You don't learn from that sort of mentality. Thats the mentality my ex's use and it gets them nowhere in the long run. I have taken a year of dating and have reprogrammed myself into a solid, well rounded, mature, dependable man. Am I perfect? No..But I am much better :-)

 

I post here about BPD and my experience with a BPDer, because as BPDer (the poster) said knowledge is power. Is VERY frustrating seeing behaviour you have never encountered before and not being able to process it or understand what is actually happening underneath the surface.

 

Once you understand whats going on then you can focus on your failings as a person and your mistakes within the relationship. For me to blame my last relationship failure exclusively on my ex 'potentially' having BPD is very naive and quite frankly not true.

 

Its about looking at yourself and being honest with yourself. My ex just sees me as a pathetic character, whose opinion is irrelevant and with whom she regrets ever being with. She of course is entitled to her opinion, but what is she learning about her own behaviour? For me I see her points about me. I know I am a strong mentally tough character and a good person, but have I always displayed this? Nope.

 

I definitely don't want to be the kind of poster (that many are on this site) who just blame the ex and move on. I don't think this kind of advice helps people long term. I will advise on BPD relationships because of my experience with them, but for sure its even more important to have the OP look hard at himself for the answers that really matter. It really doesn't matter long term what is right or wrong with the ex. Its important to determine what is wrong with you. Something the OP on this thread is on the path to doing..

Edited January 7, 2013 by Mack05

[M30USA]

I think when you've actually dealt with a BPDer who kicked your a$$ and subsequently blamed YOU for it, your perspective changes and you start to feel less sorry for them. The real victims, if anything, are the people who have to deal with someone who has BPD. I've grown tired of peoe telling me, "You can only change YOUR actions, not theirs." Meanwhile the BPDer gets all the sympathy and people walk on eggshells to appease them. It's a reflection of our society, very much like how the criminal justice system gives the benefit of doubt to criminals while risking the welfare of the innocent.

Edited January 7, 2013 by M30USA

[Emilia]

I think when you've actually dealt with a BPDer who kicked your a$$ and subsequently blamed YOU for it, your perspective changes and you start to feel less sorry for them. The real victims, if anything, are the people who have to deal with someone who has BPD.

 

No, the real victim is the person who has BPD because they suffer more than you will ever know.

 

Shouldn't walk on eggshells around anyone. Most of them will not have the perspective that you have. You can move on, deal with the issue and find someone else. Most of those with BPD are trapped by it. I am very grateful that I'm capable of sympathy and empathy.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Emilia

[M30USA]

No, the real victim is the person who has BPD because they suffer more than you will ever know.

 

And therein lies our fundamental disagreement. I suppose the rapist is the real victim, then, because he was abused as a child, had no father, etc, and he suffers "more than you will ever know".

[Emilia]

And therein lies our fundamental disagreement. I suppose the rapist is the real victim, then, because he was abused as a child, had no father, etc, and he suffers "more than you will ever know".

 

I feel very sorry for you. Perhaps time to go back to the bible as clearly compassion is not your strong point.

[Mack05]

I think when you've actually dealt with a BPDer who kicked your a$$ and subsequently blamed YOU for it, your perspective changes and you start to feel less sorry for them.

 

For sure I see your point. My ex was devastated by the abuse she got from her father. No doubt it has had a huge effect on her, yet when she abused me I apparently "made her do it". She simply couldn't process that what she was doing to me was along the lines of what her father did to her. After all abuse is abuse.

 

She has never shown any real remorse for the way she treated me. She has never apologised. I have made a few attempts to make peace only to be met with more anger, hatred and abuse. All I have ever wanted was to help her understand why she has the problems she does. She views me as a guy who just wants to hurt her when nothing could be further from the truth. I want to open her eyes so that she can go onto lead a happier life.

 

Sure its easy for me to hate her because of the things she has said/done to me but I never will. Most people have good in them. My ex is no different. She was a product from her environment. I have never had to deal with the things she has had to deal with because I came from a loving and happy home. I have spend too long judging others. It achieves nothing and no one has the right to cast aspersions on others. Especially when no of us are perfect.

 

M30Usa you have to forgive her and move on. I always use this quote "Harbouring resentment to another is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die". What are you really learning when your focus is all on her?

[Mack05]

No, the real victim is the person who has BPD because they suffer more than you will ever know.

 

Shouldn't walk on eggshells around anyone. Most of them will not have the perspective that you have. You can move on, deal with the issue and find someone else. Most of those with BPD are trapped by it. I am very grateful that I'm capable of sympathy and empathy.

 

Nice Post...

[M30USA]

I feel very sorry for you. Perhaps time to go back to the bible as clearly compassion is not your strong point.

 

Yes, accountability is. Jesus told people to repent or they would "die in their sins".

 

So you still didn't address my comment. Should we have compassion on rapists for being in such torment?

[Emilia]

Yes, accountability is. Jesus told people to repent or they would "die in their sins".

 

Fine, you live your life based on teachings by your imaginary friends, the rest of us atheists will just look at human beings and feel compassion for what they are going through. Without any dogma from anyone else.

[Emilia]

So you still didn't address my comment. Should we have compassion on rapists for being in such torment?

 

You think a person who has BPD is the same as a rapist? Maybe if male rape was more common (and believe me I'm glad it isn't), you wouldn't throw such comparisons around so lightly?

[AlexDP]

I need to correct some misconceptions in this thread.

 

Bipolar disorder is not treatable by any means. It IS manageable with heavy medication but that is very different to "treatable". It severely affects relationships and is a mental illness that is managed by a psychiatrist.

 

Borderline personality disorder IS treatable in some cases and not so much in others. Generally, it starts in late teens and can go away by itself as a person gets older and becomes more confident in their identity. It is a personality disorder rather than a mental illness and is managed by a psychologist. DBT has been shown as the most effective treatment of BPD, with no medication needed.

 

Neurologists and psychiatrists mostly agree that BPD is not treatable. That doesn't mean people don't overcome it. Neurologists have seen that those patterns that cause personality disorders can change over time. It's just that we don't know how. If anything, they change because of time, not because of anything we do.

 

All that being said, people with BPD are annoying, dangerous and frankly, I don't want to spend another waking minute with them.

[CptSaveAho]

If anything, they change because of time, not because of anything we do.

 

 

100% true...

 

people make the mistake of trying to fix them, show them what love is etc... DONT!

 

Want a good example of self destructive BPDers... Lindsey Lohan... Britney Spears (She's changing... cleaning it up) ... Kim Kardashian

 

When they get tired of the drama and BS of their life, they will look inward and try to clean up their own mess

Edited January 7, 2013 by CptSaveAho