"Are these yours?"

[kaylan]

This is why you take things slow OP...especially in a LDR. Early drama isnt good.

 

And if you guys were truly in love, as you protested in a previous thread, you wouldnt be so quick to bail on him. I think you guys are merely in lust, and need to slow things down and learn how to communicate with one another. You guys need to TRULY get to know one another.

 

Lastly, He sounds like hes passive aggresive to me. And on top of that, he sounds VERY stubborn and close minded to your point of view. Its really selfish in a relationship to have the mindset of "Im gonna say what I want to say during an argument, and after Ive said my piece, the discussion is over...even if I dont try to understand your way of seeing the situation". <---thats how he behaves.

Edited January 6, 2013 by kaylan

[2sunny]

This is one of the weirdest things I've ever heard. What stands out the most, is why does he insist on keeping them? I mean, I can understand holding on to things like pictures of your ex, cards, things like that? But underwear?

 

Oh I've known lots of men that specifically keep gals undies - and stash them away like trophies!

 

Only to take them out every now and then to "sniff them"!

 

Remember the guy who used to post here - he sniffed his sister in laws undies when he found them in the bathroom while she was visiting!

[SOLACEMENT]

Oh I've known lots of men that specifically keep gals undies - and stash them away like trophies!

 

Only to take them out every now and then to "sniff them"!

 

Remember the guy who used to post here - he sniffed his sister in laws undies when he found them in the bathroom while she was visiting!

 

Ewww....wtf

What is wrong with people?

[Ninjainpajamas]

So I asked him to get rid of them. He said he would. Turned into a big argument. He doesn't think he did anything wrong in asking me if they were mine, and the notion I have that he's 'holding on' to them is 'ridiculous'. He wondered why it's been on my mind for the last day and a half and let it spoil my mood when he'd forgotten all about it; he says he couldn't care less about them, there are a hundred more important things than them.

 

He's done this sort of thing before--he doesn't really care to talk things out. He just says his truth and then it's done, over, forgotten. There was one time when I asked him if he'd Skype with me and he wrote back "I'll think about it." I took that in a bad way and told him as much--respectfully. He never responded; I called him because I thought he was mad at me. He wasn't mad at me; he just didn't think it was something worth discussing. He said he told me what he had been thinking at the time I asked him and it didn't mean anything more than that.

 

I think he might be way too matter-of-fact for me. I read way too much into everything and then I feel like my feelings are being trivialized. I think this might be done.

 

That's a textbook liar/self-centered move right there, this guy isn't going to put your feeling before his, he just can't...therefore he's unable to see or at least accept your point of view.

 

He's not going to want to admit guilt or fault here, he's just going to explain how it's a big misunderstanding and that you are clearly over-reacting, causing problems, being dramatic, difficult, all the things that men say and do on a regular basis to try and turn the spotlight after they did something clearly messed up to give the woman self-doubt, and because the woman want's it to work out and get through it, she'll just merely apologize and make amends so that things can progress and he'll feel justified and in the right and never feel the need to change.

 

Of course he'll apologize to some extent, but most of it will be empty words that are in the moment...only to repeat the same behavior a short time later.

 

He doesn't care to talk about the things he doesn't feel are important or a priority...that's a huge problem.

 

You need to express to him how you feel, if you do it through talking then you are likely going to argue and start pointing the finger because you're both likely stubborn and have issues admitting fault, and it'll get nowhere, you need to do it through email or writing, something he can read and take his time listening...I doubt he'll consider much of what you're saying through talk, and some point he'll just cut you off.

 

Tell him why you feel this way, and what i means, and how neglected you feel, how invalidated your emotions are when he reacts this way...explain to him rationally (as this is how men work) why it makes no sense for him to believe you wouldn't react negatively to a girls panties in his car...what if you found a guys boxers in your car then asked him then ended up getting it wrong? but really, don't ask a lot of questions, he'll just likely give you a smart @ss answer or deflect the question and turn it into a joke or overeaction...but you've really got to communicate here Tigressa, you've got to be vulnerable and he has to meet you half way and want to change and increase the communication or this is going to be a toxic relationship filled with push and pull, and drama...this is not going to end well if you push it or fight too hard for it when it's not working.

[tigressA]

He didn't understand my part of the situation because I couldn't even explain it--and when I was able to, I was unwilling. After awhile I was just being stubborn for the hell of it. He was asking me why and I couldn't (and then wouldn't) say anything. That was why he said the discussion is over--either I explain what's going on with me and we talk about that or I just forget about it.

 

He doesn't have any issues with saying what's on his mind. I do. I struggle with that a lot. He knows this. He's the first person who sort of confronts me about it head-on and almost tries to...force me to acknowledge what I'm feeling. Other guys just tolerated my passive-aggressive stuff, argued as passionately as I did, and were overly apologetic, feeding into the drama cycle. This is different. And I'm resorting to long-established behavior and he's having none of it.

[Star Gazer]

I feel like my feelings are being trivialized.

 

Because they are.

[kaylan]

Sounds to me like OP is trying to take blame for whats going on whilst ignoring the bfs faults. Dont do that. Its on both of you.

[Star Gazer]

That's a textbook liar/self-centered move right there, this guy isn't going to put your feeling before his, he just can't...therefore he's unable to see or at least accept your point of view.

 

He's not going to want to admit guilt or fault here, he's just going to explain how it's a big misunderstanding and that you are clearly over-reacting, causing problems, being dramatic, difficult, all the things that men say and do on a regular basis to try and turn the spotlight after they did something clearly messed up to give the woman self-doubt, and because the woman want's it to work out and get through it, she'll just merely apologize and make amends so that things can progress and he'll feel justified and in the right and never feel the need to change.

 

Of course he'll apologize to some extent, but most of it will be empty words that are in the moment...only to repeat the same behavior a short time later.

 

He doesn't care to talk about the things he doesn't feel are important or a priority...that's a huge problem.

 

Starting to sound like textbook narcissism, really... And how he so charmingly hooked her at the beginning is just more evidence.

[Star Gazer]

He didn't understand my part of the situation because I couldn't even explain it--and when I was able to, I was unwilling. After awhile I was just being stubborn for the hell of it. He was asking me why and I couldn't (and then wouldn't) say anything. That was why he said the discussion is over--either I explain what's going on with me and we talk about that or I just forget about it.

 

He doesn't have any issues with saying what's on his mind. I do. I struggle with that a lot. He knows this. He's the first person who sort of confronts me about it head-on and almost tries to...force me to acknowledge what I'm feeling. Other guys just tolerated my passive-aggressive stuff, argued as passionately as I did, and were overly apologetic, feeding into the drama cycle. This is different. And I'm resorting to long-established behavior and he's having none of it.

 

You're making this...your fault? Good lord, WHY?

[tigressA]

Well, it partly is my fault! He kept asking for an explanation from me, and I couldn't/wouldn't budge. I sat there stonewalling him, at first because I was unable to articulate, and then just because I felt like being stubborn. The only reason why he said the discussion was over was because he'd attempted to get me to open up and I wasn't.

 

And then it got the best of me and I burst out that I was feeling jealous and insecure because it's one thing to be told the person you're with has a past but then it's another thing to be confronted with it through an incident like that. And that I had thought they were from someone he met after me and that's why I was harping on him not getting rid of them immediately.

 

I had said, "I don't know if that's what you wanted." He softened quite a bit after that and said that if it's the truth, it's what he wanted and that's what he always wants from me.

 

He did come off rather insensitive during the argument; he could've gone about calling me out in a more considerate way. I just have such trouble communicating how I feel about a lot of things. I think there's a 'right' and 'wrong' way to say things and I always assume the way I first think of them would be the wrong way, so I think of a right way, and while I'm thinking of it my bad feelings just fester and it all comes out in an outburst and makes things worse. He's just...blunt. Foot-in-mouth. He fails to understand the trouble I have and he's not as sensitive to it as I think he should be. He has his own way of doing things and he thinks it's the best way, but I don't. I'm more sensitive than he is, I need to be handled more delicately. And if he isn't willing to understand that then I'm gone.

[SOLACEMENT]

Well, it partly is my fault! He kept asking for an explanation from me, and I couldn't/wouldn't budge. I sat there stonewalling him, at first because I was unable to articulate, and then just because I felt like being stubborn. The only reason why he said the discussion was over was because he'd attempted to get me to open up and I wasn't.

 

And then it got the best of me and I burst out that I was feeling jealous and insecure because it's one thing to be told the person you're with has a past but then it's another thing to be confronted with it through an incident like that. And that I had thought they were from someone he met after me and that's why I was harping on him not getting rid of them immediately.

 

I had said, "I don't know if that's what you wanted." He softened quite a bit after that and said that if it's the truth, it's what he wanted and that's what he always wants from me.

 

He did come off rather insensitive during the argument; he could've gone about calling me out in a more considerate way. I just have such trouble communicating how I feel about a lot of things. I think there's a 'right' and 'wrong' way to say things and I always assume the way I first think of them would be the wrong way, so I think of a right way, and while I'm thinking of it my bad feelings just fester and it all comes out in an outburst and makes things worse. He's just...blunt. Foot-in-mouth. He fails to understand the trouble I have and he's not as sensitive to it as I think he should be. He has his own way of doing things and he thinks it's the best way, but I don't. I'm more sensitive than he is, I need to be handled more delicately. And if he isn't willing to understand that then I'm gone.

 

However when guys are usually more delicate with you - don't you easily over power them in a way?

 

I mean isn't that just a want to always be in control in some way?

[Star Gazer]

Well, it partly is my fault! He kept asking for an explanation from me, and I couldn't/wouldn't budge. I sat there stonewalling him, at first because I was unable to articulate, and then just because I felt like being stubborn. The only reason why he said the discussion was over was because he'd attempted to get me to open up and I wasn't.

 

And then it got the best of me and I burst out that I was feeling jealous and insecure because it's one thing to be told the person you're with has a past but then it's another thing to be confronted with it through an incident like that. And that I had thought they were from someone he met after me and that's why I was harping on him not getting rid of them immediately.

 

I had said, "I don't know if that's what you wanted." He softened quite a bit after that and said that if it's the truth, it's what he wanted and that's what he always wants from me.

 

He did come off rather insensitive during the argument; he could've gone about calling me out in a more considerate way. I just have such trouble communicating how I feel about a lot of things. I think there's a 'right' and 'wrong' way to say things and I always assume the way I first think of them would be the wrong way, so I think of a right way, and while I'm thinking of it my bad feelings just fester and it all comes out in an outburst and makes things worse. He's just...blunt. Foot-in-mouth. He fails to understand the trouble I have and he's not as sensitive to it as I think he should be. He has his own way of doing things and he thinks it's the best way, but I don't. I'm more sensitive than he is, I need to be handled more delicately. And if he isn't willing to understand that then I'm gone.

 

He wanted an explanation from YOU?

 

What about an explanation from HIM? One that makes sense, that's complete, that satisfies you, that comes from him voluntarily, that doesn't have to be drug out, that isn't an "end of discussion" type thing?

[TheBigQuestion]

Good lord.

 

When you find the right person, this relationship sh** isn't complicated. At all. Seriously. That should tell you everything right there.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Well, it partly is my fault! He kept asking for an explanation from me, and I couldn't/wouldn't budge. I sat there stonewalling him, at first because I was unable to articulate, and then just because I felt like being stubborn. The only reason why he said the discussion was over was because he'd attempted to get me to open up and I wasn't.

 

And then it got the best of me and I burst out that I was feeling jealous and insecure because it's one thing to be told the person you're with has a past but then it's another thing to be confronted with it through an incident like that. And that I had thought they were from someone he met after me and that's why I was harping on him not getting rid of them immediately.

 

I had said, "I don't know if that's what you wanted." He softened quite a bit after that and said that if it's the truth, it's what he wanted and that's what he always wants from me.

 

He did come off rather insensitive during the argument; he could've gone about calling me out in a more considerate way. I just have such trouble communicating how I feel about a lot of things. I think there's a 'right' and 'wrong' way to say things and I always assume the way I first think of them would be the wrong way, so I think of a right way, and while I'm thinking of it my bad feelings just fester and it all comes out in an outburst and makes things worse. He's just...blunt. Foot-in-mouth. He fails to understand the trouble I have and he's not as sensitive to it as I think he should be. He has his own way of doing things and he thinks it's the best way, but I don't. I'm more sensitive than he is, I need to be handled more delicately. And if he isn't willing to understand that then I'm gone.

 

You've got to be able to explain to him how you work really well...you can't pull any of the stubbornness and passive-aggressiveness, he's just going to mirror your behavior and deflect it which will just make it worse.

 

He's not going to have the patience to sit there and let you think it out and articulate you, you have a hard time expressing your feelings and putting them into to words...you need time to put it together, he's the kind of the guy that's going to put a lot of pressure up front but once he hears the reason or the way you're feeling he's not going to have much of a connection to actually helping resolve it...he's not going to "get it", therefore you're going to have to explain how you feel really well.

 

He'll take any stubbornness and shutting down as an aggressive attack, as if you are intentionally doing it or withholding it, so try and refrain from shutting down...you need a lot of practice saying how you feel, even if it's just that you need some time to think about it or you're not sure how to put into words how you feel, but you're hurt and upset and don't need him to attack him. You've got to be willing to combat your stubbornness and your desire to cause trouble when you see the opportunity, because you express discontent through actions instead of words, you are someone who arbors a lot of emotion with no way to diffuse you, you have to practice that or you're going to blow up all the time because it's bottled up, you have to force yourself to do things out of your comfort zone and make you feel vulnerable...it's hard when you feel like you can't trust someone, and you hate to lose that control but you've got to do it to make any real progress...this is early in the relationship to be doing this kind of a thing but I have a feeling for you this is quite normal.

 

This is starting to go much deeper than the granny panties, but the fact he doesn't know how to give you what you need and the fact that you don't know how to tell him is going to create discontent and disconnect, you have to try harder to express yourself...I know it's hard to do that and it'll mean a lot to you, but this isn't really about him, it's about you...but I think you need to feel it's centered around him, I think you want to see and feel that he is different and good for you in any way, I doubt you are one to walk away easy...once you really care and are invested that is, even more than the average girl and especially as you have opened up as you are likely someone who protects the core of who you are, your deepest emotions.

[Radu]

I just have such trouble communicating how I feel about a lot of things. I think there's a 'right' and 'wrong' way to say things and I always assume the way I first think of them would be the wrong way, so I think of a right way, and while I'm thinking of it my bad feelings just fester and it all comes out in an outburst and makes things worse. He's just...blunt. Foot-in-mouth. He fails to understand the trouble I have and he's not as sensitive to it as I think he should be. He has his own way of doing things and he thinks it's the best way, but I don't. I'm more sensitive than he is, I need to be handled more delicately. And if he isn't willing to understand that then I'm gone.

 

This is what's wrong with you TA.

You know how you are, you know you would like to be different, but you want him to adapt to you.

Him adapting to you will not lead to change.

 

I don't think this relationship will work in the long run, but you could learn a lot from it and use it to adapt yourself to a more forward communication style.

 

Instead of looking for the perfect guy for your communication style, you could change your communication style to what you want which in the long run will increase your chances for a LTR to last.

 

PS: I see no mention of granny panties ... ninja, were you watching 'Zack and Miri make a porno' recently ?

[tigressA]

Yeah I know I'm just a spoiled brat. I'm used to and expect everyone to give in to me and adapt to me, me, me. I'm used to getting my own way and when I don't get it I just leave and find someone else who will give it to me until they don't want to anymore or I get bored (the latter usually happens first) and it starts all over again.

[edgygirl]

Yeah I know I'm just a spoiled brat. I'm used to and expect everyone to give in to me and adapt to me, me, me. I'm used to getting my own way and when I don't get it I just leave and find someone else who will give it to me until they don't want to anymore or I get bored (the latter usually happens first) and it starts all over again.

 

I used to be like this. Not good. The only way to have someone for the long term is adapting. You'll feel very frustrated in life if you don't change.

[outsidethebox]

So does this post this morning mean you didn't get on the train?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, it partly is my fault! He kept asking for an explanation from me, and I couldn't/wouldn't budge. I sat there stonewalling him, at first because I was unable to articulate, and then just because I felt like being stubborn. The only reason why he said the discussion was over was because he'd attempted to get me to open up and I wasn't.

 

THANK YOU for acknowledging that you may have some of the responsibility for this fiasco.

 

I am NOT "taking the side" of your bf, or ex bf - whatever the case may be at this time. But I am a little put off by the ready dismissal among your LS friends of his character and even labeling him as narcissistic based on this mess.

 

We are only hearing all of it through your emotional filter. Which is completely valid, for YOU, but it does not give us real insight into the dynamics of the situation.

 

All we REALLY know is that he made the stupid, questionable decision to tell you about the demonic panties, and then he didn't throw them away.

 

TA, I am NOT accusing you of doing this because I have no idea - but in such a scenario, it's not farfetched to imagine the woman on the receiving end pantygate to make a huge deal of it and for the guy to feel cornered and like nothing he could do or say would be right, while at the same time, getting his back up about feeling attacked and thus, refusing to do what would make it better.

 

It's immature.

 

That's about all.

 

And maybe he IS a narcissist and / or a passive aggressive numbskull. But if you really believed in your love for him, I hope you will at least try to see this through to the other side. If you can, when neither of you is feeling emotional, attacked, or possibly betrayed, you may be able to talk this through.

[SilentVoice]

THANK YOU for acknowledging that you may have some of the responsibility for this fiasco.

 

I am NOT "taking the side" of your bf, or ex bf - whatever the case may be at this time. But I am a little put off by the ready dismissal among your LS friends of his character and even labeling him as narcissistic based on this mess.

 

We are only hearing all of it through your emotional filter. Which is completely valid, for YOU, but it does not give us real insight into the dynamics of the situation.

 

All we REALLY know is that he made the stupid, questionable decision to tell you about the demonic panties, and then he didn't throw them away.

 

TA, I am NOT accusing you of doing this because I have no idea - but in such a scenario, it's not farfetched to imagine the woman on the receiving end pantygate to make a huge deal of it and for the guy to feel cornered and like nothing he could do or say would be right, while at the same time, getting his back up about feeling attacked and thus, refusing to do what would make it better.

 

It's immature.

 

That's about all.

 

And maybe he IS a narcissist and / or a passive aggressive numbskull. But if you really believed in your love for him, I hope you will at least try to see this through to the other side. If you can, when neither of you is feeling emotional, attacked, or possibly betrayed, you may be able to talk this through.

Thank You!!!

[SunsetRed]

He didn't understand my part of the situation because I couldn't even explain it--and when I was able to, I was unwilling. After awhile I was just being stubborn for the hell of it. He was asking me why and I couldn't (and then wouldn't) say anything. That was why he said the discussion is over--either I explain what's going on with me and we talk about that or I just forget about it.

 

He doesn't have any issues with saying what's on his mind. I do. I struggle with that a lot. He knows this. He's the first person who sort of confronts me about it head-on and almost tries to...force me to acknowledge what I'm feeling. Other guys just tolerated my passive-aggressive stuff, argued as passionately as I did, and were overly apologetic, feeding into the drama cycle. This is different. And I'm resorting to long-established behavior and he's having none of it.

 

 

Well then, something good came out of this..you learned something about yourself and the way you communicate and you can work on yourself. Even so, regardless of if you communicate passive aggressively or not, in this case, he's still the one at fault and you're not. He started this whole mess by bringing up the subject of the underwear in the first place.

[tuxedo cat]

I haven't read the whole thread but I think you're right to be put off by his behavior. It doesn't necessarily point to cheating per se but it does cast doubt on his trustworthiness and maturity. I suspect he was asking the question just to get a rise out of you, especially considering your later update that he insisted on holding onto them --WTF??

 

I have to say that if I'm right it also doesn't speak well to his intelligence and maturity that as manipulations go it was such a childish, poorly executed one. Either he's very manipulative and socially inept, or, less likely, he's well meaning but a complete buffoon. Personally I'd have dumped him like yesterday, but I can't imagine ever being with a guy who was such a tool.

 

I am also curious about why you hadn't seen him for three weeks and how your relationship has been going otherwise.

Edited January 6, 2013 by tuxedo cat

[tigressA]

TA, I am NOT accusing you of doing this because I have no idea - but in such a scenario, it's not farfetched to imagine the woman on the receiving end pantygate to make a huge deal of it and for the guy to feel cornered and like nothing he could do or say would be right, while at the same time, getting his back up about feeling attacked and thus, refusing to do what would make it better.

 

That's basically what happened minus the refusal to get rid of them. He had said he would. I was up in arms at the fact he hadn't done so yet.

 

I had a chip on my shoulder all day yesterday because of it and he had noticed, but decided to not say anything about it until after we returned to his place and I was still being curt and distant. He was upset because he'd put some effort into making sure we both had a good time; he planned things, and I was outwardly distant, off in my own head, not terribly appreciative.

 

He'd forgotten all about the incident and was focused on us having fun together after not seeing each other for awhile, and he was upset that I allowed something he didn't see as important at all to ruin my mood for an entire day. He just didn't understand how I could turn something he saw as nothing into such a huge deal.

 

We talked it out again this morning and it was productive. We (no, not just him--we) called an end to it, had breakfast, and had a lovely afternoon out. I was stifling doubts that he'd really forgotten, but he seemed happy so I just went with it. This is another thing I do too--after a conflict has been resolved I still worry that the other person is thinking about it and just not saying anything. I tend to assume other people think like I do when it comes to conflict. I 'hang on' to the worry for days.

[EasyHeart]

I'm waiting for the part of the story where T realizes that they were her panties all along . . . .

[Ninjainpajamas]

I'm waiting for the part of the story where T realizes that they were her panties all along . . . .

 

If that's the case I'll commit her myself