Consolidated 'looks' discussion and society's standards of beauty for men vs women

[superb]

Being mean to someone because of how they look is wrong. That's judging people which certainly makes the world a WORSE place.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I didn't know animals had a notion of social beauty, whatever that means.

 

Animals do. They want to mate with the biggest and strongest.

 

But human ideals of beauty are all socially conceived.

[ThaWholigan]

So, say you met a woman and you got along famously. One in a thousand click. You'd be OK with her not wanting to date you because she's not attracted to black men?

 

I just think that's so silly.

 

Yet, people live religiously by what they are physically attracted to.

I don't care if she doesn't date black men - I know lots of girls like that......BLACK girls even that don't want to date black men.

 

Not everyone is attracted physically, and some people are attracted to different physical things - but generally, it's not people religiously going by what they are physically attracted to, but if sacrificing physical attraction does not lead to happiness for others, what other incentive is there? Sure, we can probably think of people who have done so and they are happy. I can admit some people do.

 

But most others would be unhappy. Some people who lack fortitude would even cheat in an arrangement such as that - or end up in open relationships.

[Treasa]

I don't care if she doesn't date black men - I know lots of girls like that......BLACK girls even that don't want to date black men.

 

Not everyone is attracted physically, and some people are attracted to different physical things - but generally, it's not people religiously going by what they are physically attracted to, but if sacrificing physical attraction does not lead to happiness for others, what other incentive is there? Sure, we can probably think of people who have done so and they are happy. I can admit some people do.

 

But most others would be unhappy. Some people who lack fortitude would even cheat in an arrangement such as that - or end up in open relationships.

 

I thought you were attractive before I ever saw an actual picture of you. Twas something to do with the love of wrestling, sense of humor, wit, and intelligence.

[todreaminblue]

I don't care if she doesn't date black men - I know lots of girls like that......BLACK girls even that don't want to date black men.

 

Not everyone is attracted physically, and some people are attracted to different physical things - but generally, it's not people religiously going by what they are physically attracted to, but if sacrificing physical attraction does not lead to happiness for others, what other incentive is there? Sure, we can probably think of people who have done so and they are happy. I can admit some people do.

 

But most others would be unhappy. Some people who lack fortitude would even cheat in an arrangement such as that - or end up in open relationships.

 

A relationship i had that ended up open was because the guy was a cheat and to tell the truth i wasnt physically attracted to him in the first place........the relationship where i developed a physical attraction started out with me knowing the guy...that relationship lasted fifteen years...physical attraction is a component of a relationship,i think its necessary t feel attraction in many ways to keep a relationship alive....and faithful

[pbjbear]

Yeah I need to be physically attracted to someone to date them. I never dispute that- however for women things other than looks can create attraction, for men it is mostly looks. Men dont care about my morals, my personality, my outgoingness, my character...they focus mostly on looks for attraction. I look at looks, but I look at all the other things too.

 

But without any attraction it wouldnt work

 

One of the few decent guys I dated, he was no looker but not really ugly. He was the funniest person I ever met and he had a way of making everyone comfortable around him. He was not moody at all. I grew to like him alot and he was prob the best sex I had

[Keenly]

Hey everyone we should stop eating food. Cavemen ate food, don't we want to move forward? Why would we want to do the things humans have done forever ?

[StanMusial]

OK. Basically the overwhelming philosophy of the world is "Find someone you are physically attracted to. Nothing else will do."

 

Detach yourself for a moment from the conventions of the world.

 

In the grand scheme of things, do you all realize how silly that idea is? Our looks (save weight/body shape) are just the way we are born. The pigment of our skin, the length at which our bones fused together when they stopped growing, the way our skin shaped around our facial structure. These things have absolutely nothing to do with compatibility or what kind of people we are.

 

Yet, it is by far the dominant driving force in who we DO NOT decide to spend the rest of our lives with.

 

This is more of a philosophical rant. NOT designed to bring out arguments on how 'only ugly people think looks don't matter because they can't do any better.'

 

That's just the way things are, right?

 

What if as people we all just said, "Well, gays, black, Asians, women, they have less civil rights. Well, that's just the way things are."

 

I think there are a lot of factors in play. But consider a simple example:

 

There are two plates in front of you. On the first sits a big slice of chocolate cake. The other has a pile of broccoli sitting upon it. Which one do you want, and why?

[pbjbear]

Hey everyone we should stop eating food. Cavemen ate food, don't we want to move forward? Why would we want to do the things humans have done forever ?

 

I see what youre saying but food is essential to survival.

Looks are essential to a relationship. You can argue they are in a way because without attraction you wont have sex and reproduce...but many men will **** anything that moves...

[JuneJulySeptember]

I think there are a lot of factors in play. But consider a simple example:

 

There are two plates in front of you. On the first sits a big slice of chocolate cake. The other has a pile of broccoli sitting upon it. Which one do you want, and why?

 

I like your analogy actually.

 

Actually, if it was prepared the way my mom makes it, I take the broccoli. She can do amazing things with that vegetable. That's neither here nor there though.

 

If the broccoli would help me live a better life and be healthier, I'd take the broccoli. I think in the same way, we usually take the chocolate cake over the broccoli in dating. I think the broccoli would make most us happier in the long run. I mean, this is a person you're spending a lot of time with, a lot of that NOT having sex or showing her/him off in front of your friends.

 

In fairness, I'm not above it all. All of the women I've dated I've had fairly strong attraction to. Which is not to say, I wouldn't date a woman I had weak attraction to. I would. Just coincidence and because I am attracted to LOTS of women. But sometimes, when I see a hot girl, and I'm really attracted to her and find myself thinking about her when I'm at home, I say to myself, "This is so stupid."

 

It is kind of stupid if you think about it.

[TheZebra]

Genetics determine our looks but genetics also determines a lot of who we are as well. Intelligence - something many people prize, is also something you are born with.

 

Our intelligence AND our looks can be adapted by us to make ourselves seem more desirable. In terms of looks, if I leave myself completely in the mercy of genetics then I will have hair all over my legs and underarms, there will be ugly black chin-hairs, there will be gross acne all over my face, my hair instead of being straight will be dry, brittle, and I'll look like a witch, and my eyebrows will make me look like a caveman. All my nails will be chewed out and gross, and my breasts would be droopy. I'd be wearing glasses because I can't see anything. My teeth would be terrible and crooked.

 

Same thing with intelligence. If I just park my butt in front of the TV 24/7 for a year, I'll probably forget how to do basic math. And read. And just about anything, really.

 

What I'm trying to emphasize as that we CAN change many things determined by genetics to make ourselves more attractive. Today with plastic surgery and orthodontics we can all technically look great. With enough ambition and hard work we can all seem smart.

 

You're not doomed to what you were born with. If you're unhappy with something about yourself - change it. I thought I looked homely before, so I let my hair grow out, straightened it, got my eyebrows done, let my nails grow out and painted them, and lost weight.

 

And also, personality can change as much as looks. I think my personality has changed more in the last 5 years than my looks, to be honest. We're all constantly changing in all aspects.

 

The reason we go for looks first is because let's face it, there's 3 billion men out there. When I'm at a bar and will only be there for a few hours, I can't go up to every guy in there and start a long conversation to determine who I'm compatible with or not. I don't have the time or the energy. So what do I do? I narrow it down to the guys I feel the most attracted to - my 'type' if you will. Those are the guys I start with and will focus on.

[KungFuJoe]

We are genetically inclined to favor certain physical attributes.

 

Whatever indicates fertility in women and strength in men, basically.

[xxoo]

So you are perfectly ok having sex with someone you aren't attracted to?

 

Certainly, for me, attraction isn't all about looks. But attraction is essential for a sexual relationship. Otherwise...well, it wouldn't be sexual. It would be married roommates. Lots of people do live that way. I'm not convinced they enjoy it.

 

On some level, it is simply about wanting pleasure in our lives. How human!

[JuneJulySeptember]

So you are perfectly ok having sex with someone you aren't attracted to?

 

Certainly, for me, attraction isn't all about looks. But attraction is essential for a sexual relationship. Otherwise...well, it wouldn't be sexual. It would be married roommates. Lots of people do live that way. I'm not convinced they enjoy it.

 

On some level, it is simply about wanting pleasure in our lives. How human!

 

I'm talking about attraction based on looks.

 

Height, weight, race, face. Just looks.

 

As for your question, I can't remember the last woman I got along with very well that I didn't want to have sex with on some level, so there's that.

[monicaelise]

Looks do not matter in all relationships, but they do matter in physically intimate relationships, at least for most people. I have friends of every size, shape, and colour but I still have specific tastes when it comes to the people I choose to become intimate with. I would still love my children and my friends regardless of what they looked like, but they're not sharing a bed with me. I don't think there's a darned thing wrong with wanting to be physically attracted to, and physically attractive to, the people you have physical relationships with.

 

It's not a matter of being shallow or focused on the superficial. A person's physical appearance triggers certain signals in our brains. Some of those triggers have to do with social conditioning but many of them have to do with cues that tell us about a person's health or vitality. These are things that matter when we're choosing a mate.

 

That, of course, does not mean that there is only one "type" that we all find attractive. Even with our individual preferences, most of us are able to objectively ascertain attractiveness in others that we may not personally want to pursue.

[serial muse]

I like your analogy actually.

 

Actually, if it was prepared the way my mom makes it, I take the broccoli. She can do amazing things with that vegetable. That's neither here nor there though.

 

If the broccoli would help me live a better life and be healthier, I'd take the broccoli. I think in the same way, we usually take the chocolate cake over the broccoli in dating. I think the broccoli would make most us happier in the long run. I mean, this is a person you're spending a lot of time with, a lot of that NOT having sex or showing her/him off in front of your friends.

 

In fairness, I'm not above it all. All of the women I've dated I've had fairly strong attraction to. Which is not to say, I wouldn't date a woman I had weak attraction to. I would. Just coincidence and because I am attracted to LOTS of women. But sometimes, when I see a hot girl, and I'm really attracted to her and find myself thinking about her when I'm at home, I say to myself, "This is so stupid."

 

It is kind of stupid if you think about it.

 

The trouble is that it's a bit of a false dichotomy. There are other choices than bland-but-good-for-you and delicious-empty-calories.

[carhill]

Can one be physically attracted to a person without regard to 'looks'?

 

Can nurture specifically or globally trump nature?

 

Interesting.

 

Personally, I use 'looks' and mannerisms to identify unique humans, generally those I care about. At my age, with physical appearance in flux and generally showing the long-term effects of living, it's an identifier and not the be-all and end-all of a person's presence. For some, that perspective is a life-long path; for others, it evolves. Others never experience it. Mixed bag, life is.

[xxoo]

I'm talking about attraction based on looks.

 

Height, weight, race, face. Just looks.

 

As for your question, I can't remember the last woman I got along with very well that I didn't want to have sex with on some level, so there's that.

 

I have definitely gotten along well with men that I've had zero attraction to. But they looked fine, so I guess it is a question for another thread.

[StanMusial]

I like your analogy actually.

 

Actually, if it was prepared the way my mom makes it, I take the broccoli. She can do amazing things with that vegetable. That's neither here nor there though.

 

If the broccoli would help me live a better life and be healthier, I'd take the broccoli. I think in the same way, we usually take the chocolate cake over the broccoli in dating. I think the broccoli would make most us happier in the long run. I mean, this is a person you're spending a lot of time with, a lot of that NOT having sex or showing her/him off in front of your friends.

 

In fairness, I'm not above it all. All of the women I've dated I've had fairly strong attraction to. Which is not to say, I wouldn't date a woman I had weak attraction to. I would. Just coincidence and because I am attracted to LOTS of women. But sometimes, when I see a hot girl, and I'm really attracted to her and find myself thinking about her when I'm at home, I say to myself, "This is so stupid."

 

It is kind of stupid if you think about it.

 

Imagine it is a plate of earthworms. Low in fat, chock-full of protein, yum!! The cake is laden with sugar and fat. Definitely the healthy choice is worms.

 

It is just our nature to go for the item that is more pleasurable. You can fight against nature but you can't win. You can "not lose" but you can't win.

[pbjbear]

I have definitely gotten along well with men that I've had zero attraction to. But they looked fine, so I guess it is a question for another thread.

 

 

yeah most men will want to screw anyone who isnt ugly and they get along with...thats why alot of men say men dont have female friends they arent into sexually if given a chance. women are pickier

[JuneJulySeptember]

Imagine it is a plate of earthworms. Low in fat, chock-full of protein, yum!! The cake is laden with sugar and fat. Definitely the healthy choice is worms.

 

It is just our nature to go for the item that is more pleasurable. You can fight against nature but you can't win. You can "not lose" but you can't win.

 

Deciding whether to eat a plate of broccoli or chocolate cake doesn't have huge social ramifications.

 

Discriminating who to date based on race, face, and height trickles down to the non-romantic social level. Things like that define not only who we date, but who we associate with and how we choose our friends.

 

If every man on Earth looked like Ryan Gosling and every woman on Earth looked like Marissa Tomei (random examples) I think this world would be an exponentially better place.

[amolya]

OP, it seems like you are confusing 'society's beauty standards' with individual attraction. I'm pretty sure most people don't only go for tall people with perfect bone structure and perfect hair, fair skinned, skinny women, muscly guys, etc just because society tells us that's beautiful. People will go out with who they personally deem attractive, and like said above most of that is our subconcious telling us who is a suitable mate. We can;t 'overrride' these animal instincts because we're so 'evolved', because truth is, these evolutionary aspects of ourselves are ingrained and they're not a bad thing; just like we instinctually enjoy food, and talking with others, and some of us like sport, others like painting etc. It's who we are, it's what makes us happy. Why would we want to try and overcome that to be someone we're not?

[JuneJulySeptember]

OP, it seems like you are confusing 'society's beauty standards' with individual attraction. I'm pretty sure most people don't only go for tall people with perfect bone structure and perfect hair, fair skinned, skinny women, muscly guys, etc just because society tells us that's beautiful. People will go out with who they personally deem attractive, and like said above most of that is our subconcious telling us who is a suitable mate. We can;t 'overrride' these animal instincts because we're so 'evolved', because truth is, these evolutionary aspects of ourselves are ingrained and they're not a bad thing; just like we instinctually enjoy food, and talking with others, and some of us like sport, others like painting etc. It's who we are, it's what makes us happy. Why would we want to try and overcome that to be someone we're not?

 

Read my post above yours.

 

Because it creates an unjust, inequal society.

 

If everybody was equally physically attractive in an equal number of people's eyes (VERY far from the truth), then it would be fine.

 

Remember. There were times when MOST people thought certain minorities were of a lower human value and definitely not attractive. Believe me. Much of beauty is socially programmed, if not all.

[xxoo]

Much of beauty is socially programmed, if not all.

 

Much of attraction is socially programmed.

 

Throughout history, the value system shifts, but the existence of a value system remains constant.

 

I'm reminded of Harrison Bergeron. Maybe we should have the pretty people wear bags on their heads?

[Keenly]

You are advocating genetic socialism lol. Why don't we talk about equipping subway sandwiches with their own scuba gear. The intelligence on that conversation would be far greater .