Anyone ever recover from golfer's elbow or something similar.

[trevzilla]

I went hard at P90X 4 times back in 2008 and dropped 45 pounds and have kept it off. But I think all the pullups blew my elbow connective tissue out. It will subside when I rest it, but it never completely goes away and comes back as soon as I try to do intense resistance training. I've been going to power yoga 3 times a week for over a year and I love it, but I still want to do weights. I've tried lots of things like rehab, physio, a technique going back to the ancient Greeks, and stopping weight lifting for months. Nothing has worked and it's pretty frustrating. I'm just learning to put up with the burning, because I refuse to go back to being out of shape. I do supplement with Glucosamine Chondroitine from Costco. I think I now know from following guys like Scooby1961 on Youtube that slow and steady is better for protecting your joints and P90X knocks out the reps too fast I think, especially for someone middle aged. Ironically I just started doing P90X2 and they seem to have moved away from that style and focus more on core and incorporating a lot of Yoga moves. I've mainained 215 at 6'2" since, but I want to push hard and get really lean and drop down to 205 to 200. So has anyone fully recovered? And how did you do it. Thanks.

[Emilia]

I'm recovering from something similar to a tennis elbow, my fault, I had overestimated my forearm strength.

 

You won't be susceptible to it when your forearms are stronger and that includes your tendons, you are only as strong as your weakest link unfortunately. Unfortunately tendon injury takes much longer to heal completely than muscle injury.

 

Once the pain disappears (and that can take a while) start diamond push ups, knuclke push ups or the kind where you turn your hands inwards to face each other while they are under your shoulders exactly (ie not wider than your shoulder width).

[Mr.White]

IF you have had problems with your body tissue from over 4 years ago recommend a doctor.

 

I understand you went to rehab but you could have done it by yourself.

Have you actually seen a professional? Save up the money if you do not have insurance because it sounds to me like something more serious is going on if your body did not heal it within a few months.

 

Pain coming from your body is not something to ignore, especially weight lifting. (I am 5'10/11 and 190, lean enough for a 4 pack) and have been weight lifting for more then two years.

 

My shoulder recently got jacked up and I did rehab on myself but lucky it was only from over stressing the joint and I gave it time to heal (about 1 week no training, 4 weeks very light, and now I am slowly building it up)

[KathyM]

I had something like tennis elbow and shoulder joint pain a year ago when I was using the weight machines, and also because of added stress from carrying a heavy bookbag so often. It took months for the joint pain to go away, but it finally has, although I still have to be careful with that arm and not stress it too much, and I no longer do weights when I exercise.

[FitChick]

Happened to me when I was using heavier weights years ago. Now I do endurance workouts and no problems since. My arms look even better and I haven't lost strength as far as I've noticed.

 

At the time, I was told to wear an elbow brace when lifting and to ice the joint afterward. Seemed to do the trick. To be on the safe side, use slightly lighter poundage initially.

 

If the problem persists, you could try prolotherapy.

[trevzilla]

Okay thanks for the replies. I have seen doctors about it multiple times. It can be frustrating to get a doctor who will zero in on the problem and help you out. I will try to train my forearms more I guess. I was shown a few exercises by the physiotherapist that I will be more diligent about. I guess the pain mostly subsided until I started working it again. I think slowing down definitely helps too, but I found that out too late. I'm just looking to lose the last bit of weight for vanity. People say I look pretty good, but I want more definition in my upper body (legs are pretty lean already), so I'll try to manage it and do the targeted exercise. Maybe I'll adjust the weight down and go more reps. I gain muscle easily and prefer a lean athletic look to bulky and muscular anyway. It's more about getting my body fat down more. Also my new job has pretty good coverage so I'm going to take advantage this year and get back to physio and whatnot.

Edited January 7, 2013 by trevzilla

[Emilia]

not every exercise affected my tennis elbow, pull did (like lat pull downs) but push ups didn't

 

also I've found this very helpful

[LittleTiger]

I'm a swimmer and, at 46, still swimming a mile and a half daily, I developed swimmers shoulder - basically major inflamation. It took a while, a year, plus two cortisone injections and daily ibuprofen for that to settle down to a point where I could live pain free - provided I don't swim.

 

That's not happening! I'm an ex competitive swimmer and I need to be in the water!!!

 

The docs would have left it at that - I saw lots of them - but eventually I pretty much insisted that they investigate further and managed to get them to do an MRI. They found a tear in one of my tendons which will not fix itself so I have to get it operated on.

 

I would suggest, after this length of time that you may have more damage than you realise. Push the doctors to investigate it properly. It is such a relief when you know what's going on and what to do about it.

 

Good luck!

[trevzilla]

thanks again, I'll look at the Vid. Well now that I have the coverage, I'll try more options. A Japanese guy I worked for injured the connective tissue in his shoulder from making pizza dough 3 hours a day and tried a crazy technique that I mentioned in my first post. Basically goes back to the Greeks. They used to shove hot pokers into an injured joint and the blood would rush to the area and result in miraculous healing. The doctor he went to basically uses a big syringe with fluid and vitamins to stimulate the same sort of reaction at the injury point. The Japanese dude says it completely healed him. I'm willing to give it a shot, despite my cynical nature and suspecting that much of the medical profession is quakery.

[Emilia]

 

A Japanese guy I worked for injured the connective tissue in his shoulder from making pizza dough 3 hours a day and tried a crazy technique that I mentioned in my first post. Basically goes back to the Greeks. They used to shove hot pokers into an injured joint and the blood would rush to the area and result in miraculous healing. The doctor he went to basically uses a big syringe with fluid and vitamins to stimulate the same sort of reaction at the injury point. The Japanese dude says it completely healed him. I'm willing to give it a shot, despite my cynical nature and suspecting that much of the medical profession is quakery.

 

A friend of mine who had used accupuncture explained it in similar terms. He had some inflamation (can't remember what), and pushing a needle in it hurt for a short while but it healed after 2 or 3 attempts based on similar principles.

 

Do check the clip though, it's quite a good background on injuries like yours.

[tman666]

Inflamed joints are a sumbitch to deal with, and they don't heal up as quickly as you might think.

 

In addition to anti-inflammatory agents and rest, you might also want to consider replacing or reducing the movements that aggravate the condition. For me, I've run into elbow issues with pronated grip pressing and pulling. You might try switching to semi-supinated pulling/pressing for a while, even beyond your rehab stage. I've found that it's easier on the shoulders as well.

[Emilia]

I've run into elbow issues with pronated grip pressing and pulling.

 

It might be similar to what the guy was explaining in the clip I posted

[darkmoon]

for what i think is wear and tear, take glucosamine & chrondoitin

 

these are two components that in pill form regrow cartilage

do not use the problem limb til the pain goes

 

i know ppl might advocate movement to spread the synovial fluid, or to do movement to keep fit, but that's my two cents

 

and get to a physiotherapist for quirky but targetted muscle excersizes

[tman666]

It might be similar to what the guy was explaining in the clip I posted

 

Very similar. The only difference is that golfer's elbow is on the inside of the elbow joint rather than the outside. The problems that I addressed with switching to semi-supinated gripping were primarily of this variety.

 

Now if the pain is more internal, it could be indicative of something else (of which I'm not sure). I've had internal joint pain before in my elbow (again, due to pressing), and honestly the only thing that made it go away was rest, and dropping the load being used. :/

 

Not the answer most of us meathead types like to hear, to be sure. Elbow sleeves might help keep the synovial fluids within the joints warmer and add to comfort as well. I wear knee sleeves during most of my leg training. It doesn't add much (or anything) in the way of assistance to the lift, but it allows me to train more comfortably-especially in the winter.

[Emilia]

 

Elbow sleeves might help keep the synovial fluids within the joints warmer and add to comfort as well.

 

I'll try elbow sleeves and see how they work

[Emilia]

Furthermore OP: I've just tried ice on my elbow and it worked! Boxing training can put a bit too much pressure on the fore arm and I can't always take it easy to my tennis elbow can flare up a bit. Last night I put ice on it and the pain subsided. I used the various stretching techniques as well, so far so good!!!

[TheFinalWord]

I went hard at P90X 4 times back in 2008 and dropped 45 pounds and have kept it off. But I think all the pullups blew my elbow connective tissue out. It will subside when I rest it, but it never completely goes away and comes back as soon as I try to do intense resistance training.

 

The main way to prevent tendonitis is to slowly increase intensity and also to accentuate the eccentric (negative) portion of a movement. For example, if you are doing a bench press, pushing the bar is the concentric (positive) portion of the movement and lowering the bar is the eccentric (negative) portion of the movement.

 

A lot of people do not focus on the eccentric portion, but there are many advantages of emphasizing the negative:

 

1) Increased strength gains

2) Strengthened connective tissues

3) Less momentum (which can prevent overemphasis of positive which can lead to injury)

4) Stronger mind-muscle connection

 

The main problem is that a lot of people get motivated to exercise around New Year for example, and completely kill themselves in the gym. Then they end up with injuries and loss of motivation. Think of exercise as a life-long journey. There is no rush or competition. Increase your intensity slowly Also, warm up appropriately. Not just static stretching, but get on the treadmill or elliptical for 10 minutes before resistance training.

 

I would generally not recommend pull-ups for you, especially at the beginning. Pull-ups require a lot of strength to perform with minimal momentum. For your size, you are probably not strong enough to do pull-ups with strict form. Can you pull yourself up, lower yourself slowly, almost to full extension, and then pull yourself back up with minimal momentum? Also, if a particular exercise causes injuries, it's better to find an alternative. I would recommend pull-downs, done with a weight you can handle with strict form, emphasizing the negative.

Edited January 11, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[Emilia]

The main way to prevent tendonitis is to slowly increase intensity and also to accentuate the eccentric (negative) portion of a movement. For example, if you are doing a bench press, pushing the bar is the concentric (positive) portion of the movement and lowering the bar is the eccentric (negative) portion of the movement.

 

A lot of people do not focus on the eccentric portion, but there are many advantages of emphasizing the negative:

 

1) Increased strength gains

2) Strengthened connective tissues

3) Less momentum (which can prevent overemphasis of positive which can lead to injury)

4) Stronger mind-muscle connection

 

 

So true. I got similar advice here from someone else and as deadlifts used to give me trouble I have been very careful with the negatives (lowering the weight). Same with push ups: I lower my weight slower and push up faster (ie slower negatives and faster positives). I've been doing this for about 3 months and I find this has worked very well in terms of strength and injuries.

 

I think for the pull ups part: getting assistance to get up there and holding yourself for a while and lowering yourself down slowly is very good to prepare you for dead hangs. Much kinder on the connective tissues too.

[trevzilla]

The main way to prevent tendonitis is to slowly increase intensity and also to accentuate the eccentric (negative) portion of a movement. For example, if you are doing a bench press, pushing the bar is the concentric (positive) portion of the movement and lowering the bar is the eccentric (negative) portion of the movement.

 

A lot of people do not focus on the eccentric portion, but there are many advantages of emphasizing the negative:

 

1) Increased strength gains

2) Strengthened connective tissues

3) Less momentum (which can prevent overemphasis of positive which can lead to injury)

4) Stronger mind-muscle connection

 

The main problem is that a lot of people get motivated to exercise around New Year for example, and completely kill themselves in the gym. Then they end up with injuries and loss of motivation. Think of exercise as a life-long journey. There is no rush or competition. Increase your intensity slowly Also, warm up appropriately. Not just static stretching, but get on the treadmill or elliptical for 10 minutes before resistance training.

 

I would generally not recommend pull-ups for you, especially at the beginning. Pull-ups require a lot of strength to perform with minimal momentum. For your size, you are probably not strong enough to do pull-ups with strict form. Can you pull yourself up, lower yourself slowly, almost to full extension, and then pull yourself back up with minimal momentum? Also, if a particular exercise causes injuries, it's better to find an alternative. I would recommend pull-downs, done with a weight you can handle with strict form, emphasizing the negative.

 

Well I can now, but the physical condition I was in at the beginning of my journey was 255 at 6'2", so the P90X workout was pretty crazy for a fat dude. Right before my injury I was doing 12 to 14 at a time, but now I'm doing like 8 very slowly at a time and all the way up and down. I agree about the negative, actually scooby1961 on youtube enlightened me as to the use of the little posts at the bottom of my pull up stand. That really made a big difference when I used them to raise myself up and then do a negative motion down. I'm trying to concentrate on diet more and more reasonable workouts. Still doing power yoga a couple of times a week and mostly using my own body weight in workouts. Plus I cycle to work which is 30 to 40 minutes of cardio a day and then skiing, snowshoeing roller blading and hiking. So I guess my exercise is more natural and fun than at the beginning. I just started following Drew Canole on facebook and downloaded his juicing recipe book. Definitely seeing some results just skipping the odd meal and juicing instead. But then I'm going more for lean and athletic than bulky, so body builders wouldn't like what I'm doing. Down to about 210 now and my goal of 195 to 200 is within reach. I'm going to stock my fridge up this weekend and do a 5 day juice fast.

Edited January 16, 2013 by trevzilla

[TheFinalWord]

Well I can now, but the physical condition I was in at the beginning of my journey was 255 at 6'2", so the P90X workout was pretty crazy for a fat dude. Right before my injury I was doing 12 to 14 at a time, but now I'm doing like 8 very slowly at a time and all the way up and down. I agree about the negative, actually scooby1961 on youtube enlightened me as to the use of the little posts at the bottom of my pull up stand. That really made a big difference when I used them to raise myself up and then do a negative motion down. I'm trying to concentrate on diet more and more reasonable workouts. Still doing power yoga a couple of times a week and mostly using my own body weight in workouts. Plus I cycle to work which is 30 to 40 minutes of cardio a day and then skiing, snowshoeing roller blading and hiking. So I guess my exercise is more natural and fun than at the beginning. I just started following Drew Canole on facebook and downloaded his juicing recipe book. Definitely seeing some results just skipping the odd meal and juicing instead. But then I'm going more for lean and athletic than bulky, so body builders wouldn't like what I'm doing. Down to about 210 now and my goal of 195 to 200 is within reach. I'm going to stock my fridge up this weekend and do a 5 day juice fast.

 

Awesome progress! Best of luck with the program!!

[trevzilla]

Awesome progress! Best of luck with the program!!

 

Thanks for the encouragement, life is a lot more fun when you're fit and healthy. I love getting outside and doing stuff now. So much better than when I used to eat junk food and play video games.

[TheFinalWord]

Thanks for the encouragement, life is a lot more fun when you're fit and healthy. I love getting outside and doing stuff now. So much better than when I used to eat junk food and play video games.

 

I agree! Getting outside is great exercise. Much better view than inside on the treadmill

 

IMHO, the best routine is the one we stick with