Fat bashing....what do you think?

[littleflowerpot]

and who cares if some fat people are fat because they like to eat? some thin people like to smoke too so if you want the argument that fat people cost taxpayers too much money and therefore it's jusitifiable to be prejudiced agains them it's hogwash unless you want to include people who smoke too. some thin people like to steal and some thin people like to do any number of things that would cause a lot of people to dislike them but it isn't something readily seen by the human eye.

 

i forget who listed the long list of costs related to obesity. unless i'm incorrect, they admitted they were a smoker. i didn't notice them listing the exorbitant costs of cigarette smoking.

[brandx]

Ok, I have been following this thread for a couple of days and now want to throw my hat into the ring just because. I am not perfect, no one is, but I consider myself a good hearted person, adn I am certain that most anyone who knows me would agree. Recently my attitude towards "fat" people has been changed dramatically.

 

Ever since I was younger for some reason, I have used sarcasm and joking/teasing as a response mechanism in many ways in my life. Based on some of the people I have know, a part of this has become making fun of fat people. My whole life. I just did it because that is how I felt. I did not necessarily feel superior. I did not even know people 95% of the time, just made comments as I saw things. Nothing to be proud of I suppose, but I am being honest. I have no justification or reasoning. I am not fat, although I am not rail thin or a body builder. Just average build. But I made fun of and typically did not associate with fat people (women more so than men, admittedly).

 

Anyways, I met someone a while back whom I consider an absolute angel of a human being. So many things this person has said and done have inspired me and opened my eyes in so many ways I cannot even explain. To my limited knowledge, a finer spirit does not exist than this one. Anyways, I found out over the course of conversation that this person used to be almost 80 pounds heavier and very fat as a teen and young adult. They have lost all of that weight over time (last 5 years), but it was there.

 

People are going to have all kinds of choice comments here, but say what you want, I am who I am. I was moved to tears when I found this out. Here is why: I would have chosen not to know this person if they still weighed that much when I met them. Plain and simple. How crushing to know that this person would not have been a part of my life simply because they weighed too much. I would have lost out in ways I cannot even explain on this board. THAT in my opinion is the problem with the prejudice, aversion, etc. And I am guilty of it, probably more than most on this board. This example may mean nothing to people, but it is everything to me. You choose to decide the worth of a person and what they can contribute to your life or to society based on their weight. That is not right. And we can all masquerade that it is not that way or that we are saying something else, but I have been on both sides of the fence. I know the differences.

 

I am a good person, regardless of either way that I have felt. I am better person for having been show the ignorance of my attitude and having been able to change them, even though it was not what I set out to do.

 

Brand X

[honey2005]

was moved to tears when I found this out. Here is why: I would have chosen not to know this person if they still weighed that much when I met them. Plain and simple. How crushing to know that this person would not have been a part of my life simply because they weighed too much.

 

Thanks for the example Brand x, I thought that was very sweet:).

[DerangedAngel]

some thin people like to steal and some thin people like to do any number of things that would cause a lot of people to dislike them

 

Fat people "steal and do any number of things that would cause a lot of people to dislike them" as well. How is this relevant? Pointing out a fault in thin people that the obese have as well isn't really helping your argument (in my opinion), if you have one.

 

-DA

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by DerangedAngel

Fat people "steal and do any number of things that would cause a lot of people to dislike them" as well. How is this relevant? Pointing out a fault in thin people that the obese have as well isn't really helping your argument (in my opinion), if you have one.

 

-DA

 

who the heck ever said that fat people don't do that too? i'm just pointing out that it's kinda silly to judge people based on what they look like when someone that is perceived as more attractive could do things far worse than to be fat and you wouldn't know it by looking at them. you misunderstood and i really didn't think it was necessary to have to point out that people of all sizes commit crimes. one does not need to point out every conceivable flaw that a person might have make an example.

 

to make it clear for you: a person may be perceived as more attractive but might have character flaws that are not easily seen by their physical shell of a body. therefore, it is unfair to judge based on a person's physical attributes.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by tikibrandy

WOW.

 

Glad to see that you get your rocks off on hanging out with fat people so *you* look better. Maybe you could work on self esteem issues? - without dragging other victims into your games!

 

Mr Spock, wanna come hang with me so I seem like an angel compared to your nasty attitude? so that I feel better (in general) about myself. Brilliant idea. Please come hang with me Mr Spock, I want to make people realize how awesome I am! I can't do it on my own...I need to leech off of your weakness! Hit me up yo! Gosh people truly AMAZE me.

 

So for the count, we've got a couple people that outright state they discriminate against fat people, hang out with fat people to gain confidence in themselves, and are pro "fat tax". YAY! If mean, crude, offensive people were taxed like those stated above, we'd make a significant wedge in the national deficit!!!

 

You can say what you please but Mr Spock is happy being Mr Spock and wouldn't change in personalities for all the money in the world.

 

It's too bad you're not feeling good about yourself.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Taken_Angel

This doesn't dignify a response!

 

But you still posted.

 

Anyways, my comment was intended to be self depricating more than anything.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by littleflowerpot

i make it in the real world because disappointment doesn't kill or cripple me. duh.

 

what silent janitors? no one made me shut up. is that how you perceived it? i quite speaking to you because i realized there was no point to it. and i NEVER dared you (much less did it over and over again like dyer did - get your claims straight.) this discussion is not about me and you spock.

 

so you hang out with fat people to make you feel better about yourself? nice.

 

 

I never said it was.

 

What I would like to know is this-is there a difference between being prejudiced against obesity and just finding it disgusting? A person cannot usually control what repels them-but they can control how they act on it.

 

If Dyer and Sinner found obeseity disgusting, does that really make them prejudiced? If they concurr that obese people are no less smart or capable than any way? I certainly don't think obese people are LESSER people. Just obese.

[Mr Spock]

to make it clear for you: a person may be perceived as more attractive but might have character flaws that are not easily seen by their physical shell of a body. therefore, it is unfair to judge based on a person's physical attributes.

 

Life isn't fair. One should not dictate to another that they are discriminatory because they don't find a certain type attractive.

[sinner]

it is unfair to judge based on a person's physical attributes.

 

 

I don't believe it's invariably unfair to assess others , at least preliminarily, based on their appearance. It's very human. Appearance is a good preliminary basis upon which to assess someone. We are visual creatures. You and I , lfp, both use personal photo avatars. Why? Are we confident in our appearance and perhaps inviting others to assess us positively at least in part based on our photos? Is this it not a form of self-display--advertising, if you will? "Read my posts; marvel at my picture."

 

Rightly or wrongly, appearance matters.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I never said it was.

 

What I would like to know is this-is there a difference between being prejudiced against obesity and just finding it disgusting? A person cannot usually control what repels them-but they can control how they act on it.

 

If Dyer and Sinner found obeseity disgusting, does that really make them prejudiced? If they concurr that obese people are no less smart or capable than any way? I certainly don't think obese people are LESSER people. Just obese.

 

dyer said he was prejudiced. i don't believe he said fat people were disgusting.

[DerangedAngel]

who the heck ever said that fat people don't do that too?

 

No one. And I never said that it was said.

 

I don't have any problem with clarity, only with relevance.

 

People are discussing health and looks, I believe. Not personality. It seems (to me) that you are trying to make a point that fat people aren't always "bad". And that thin aren't always "good". So we should just quit the judging, because our method (a fat check?) isn't reliable.

 

Well, hello, nobody said that. Again, it is about looks and health concerns only. Not personality. I can find you physically disgusting, and still admire your personality.

 

one does not need to point out every conceivable flaw that a person might have make an example.

 

I'll remember that.

 

to make it clear for you: a person may be perceived as more attractive but might have character flaws that are not easily seen by their physical shell of a body. therefore, it is unfair to judge based on a person's physical attributes.

 

Unfair to judge what? Personality? I agree. That doesn't mean that people can't, or won't, do it. Also, it doesn't mean that you and I haven't.

 

Is it unfair to rank or compare based on physical attributes, then? Everyone can pick out the most attractive person in a room. Second most. Third most.

 

I have a point.

 

Out of curiosity, are you of the opinion that looks truly do not matter? At all? I am not.

 

If the man of your dreams came in two models: The Screech Model and the Tom Cruise Model - don't even try to say you wouldn't pick the latter. Or, keeping with the obesity theme, The Drew Carey (plus 100 pounds) or The Tom Cruise Model. If it truly didn't matter, you would pick one at random. Is that what you would do? Even if you met both these "models" at a bar, knew relatively little about each, and had the opportunity to date only one... Tom Cruise? Yeah.

 

Sigh. Is it okay for me to say that I think redheads are incredibly unattractive? Because I need to get that out.

 

-Deranged

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Life isn't fair. One should not dictate to another that they are discriminatory because they don't find a certain type attractive.

 

what do you think the word prejudice means? are you really arguing that prejudice is not discriminatory? dictionary.com says discrimination is described as treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

I don't believe it's invariably unfair to assess others , at least preliminarily, based on their appearance. It's very human. Appearance is a good preliminary basis upon which to assess someone. We are visual creatures. You and I , lfp, both use personal photo avatars. Why? Are we confident in our appearance and perhaps inviting others to assess us positively at least in part based on our photos? Is this it not a form of self-display--advertising, if you will? "Read my posts; marvel at my picture."

 

Rightly or wrongly, appearance matters.

 

i use my picture in my avatar because it's me and i like me. but i do think it is unfair to regard people negatively because they are fat.

[DerangedAngel]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Life isn't fair. One should not dictate to another that they are discriminatory because they don't find a certain type attractive.

 

LFP quotes the above and responds:

 

what do you think the word prejudice means? are you really arguing that prejudice is not discriminatory? dictionary.com says discrimination is described as treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

 

I believe Mr Spock is correct, LFP. If you argue with that, then you must be claiming to find every single person in the world attractive. Otherwise, you're just discriminating.

 

Personal preference, where have you gone?

 

-DA

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by DerangedAngel

People are discussing health and looks, I believe. Not personality. It seems (to me) that you are trying to make a point that fat people aren't always "bad". And that thin aren't always "good". So we should just quit the judging, because our method (a fat check?) isn't reliable.

 

Well, hello, nobody said that. Again, it is about looks and health concerns only. Not personality. I can find you physically disgusting, and still admire your personality.

 

Is it unfair to rank or compare based on physical attributes, then? Everyone can pick out the most attractive person in a room. Second most. Third most.

 

I have a point.

 

Out of curiosity, are you of the opinion that looks truly do not matter? At all? I am not.

 

If the man of your dreams came in two models: The Screech Model and the Tom Cruise Model - don't even try to say you wouldn't pick the latter. Or, keeping with the obesity theme, The Drew Carey (plus 100 pounds) or The Tom Cruise Model. If it truly didn't matter, you would pick one at random. Is that what you would do? Even if you met both these "models" at a bar, knew relatively little about each, and had the opportunity to date only one... Tom Cruise? Yeah.

-Deranged

 

i believe we are talking about fat people as a whole and that would include personality as well as health and attractiveness. why do you only want to discuss health and attractiveness? you don't think people that are prejudiced don't make assumptions about a fat person's personality or who they are as a person?

 

too bad you picked the wrong celebrity to use as your "attractive" example. i really don't get off on tom cruise. but let's just suppose you said johnny depp (who is extremely physically attractive to me). would i pick him over drew carey? what makes you think i would? i like to laugh personally. but the truth is i wouldn't and hopefully you wouldn't choose to date a guy you met in a bar without knowing anything more about them than what they look like. unless you just want a little something something (which i don't think there's anything wrong with, btw). so, no, i wouldn't automatically pick the guy that's more pretty. in fact, i usually don't go for the pretty guys. i'm one of those girls that really do like a guy with a certain aura about them that i find hard to explain at the moment.

 

for instance, the guy i'm in love with now: when i first met him he was not my physical "type." he's chubby, wears glasses, has wirey hair that some puerto rican guys have that he keeps trimmed very short. he is as short as i am and i'm 5'4. i can honestly tell you with all my heart and i'd swear this to be true that i find him the most beautiful man i've ever known. i don't just mean his insides either anymore. i love his face. i don't know of anything i find more beautiful except my daughter's face. i don't say this to sound like some type of saint or anything but only because in my case it's the truth. i know most people would not think him a hunk but i don't care about that.

 

you're right about screech. i wouldn't pick him because he's annoying.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by DerangedAngel

LFP quotes the above and responds:

 

 

 

I believe Mr Spock is correct, LFP. If you argue with that, then you must be claiming to find every single person in the world attractive. Otherwise, you're just discriminating.

 

Personal preference, where have you gone?

 

-DA

 

personal preference is NOT the same thing as prejudice.

[sinner]

but i do think it is unfair to regard people negatively because they are fat.

 

 

If I find someone to be unattractive, simply as a matter of personal preference, am I regarding them negatively, as you put it? Is a preference for blondes over brunettes (sorry DA ), the slim over the morbidly obese, the muscular over the flabby, the hirsute over the bald, are these preferences discriminatory or merely preferences? Physical attraction has nothing to do with fairness or discrimination. It's all about liking what you see and seeing what you like.

 

I do not find the morbidly obese physically attractive. That does not make my aversion discriminatory, unfair or prejudicial. Physical attraction is discriminating, not discriminatory.

[DerangedAngel]

too bad you picked the wrong celebrity to use as your "attractive" example. i really don't get off on tom cruise. but let's just suppose you said johnny depp (who is extremely physically attractive to me). would i pick him over drew carey? what makes you think i would? i like to laugh personally. but the truth is i wouldn't

 

You did not understand the example then. In my example, the men are [font=courier new]EXACTLY[/font] the same, aside from their physical appearance. Try again?

 

personal preference is NOT the same thing as prejudice.

 

I never said that it was. Please don't misquote me!

 

This is what Mr Spock is saying: just because you don't find someone attractive, that doesn't mean someone should harp you saying you're discriminating. Or, if it does, then you're discriminating against Mr. Cruise.

 

-DA

 

(edited to add: not offended, sinner. I don't blame you.)

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

If I find someone to be unattractive, simply as a matter of personal preference, am I regarding them negatively, as you put it? Is a preference for blondes over brunettes (sorry DA ), the slim over the morbidly obese, the muscular over the flabby, the hirsute over the bald, are these preferences discriminatory or merely preferences? Physical attraction has nothing to do with fairness or discrimination. It's all about liking what you see and seeing what you like.

 

I do not find the morbidly obese physically attractive. That does not make my aversion discriminatory, unfair or prejudicial. Physical attraction is discriminating, not discriminatory.

 

physical attraction should have nothing to do with discrimination but it often does. if you think it doesn't, you should have seen some of those 20/20 pieces.

 

plus i didn't say you were prejudiced.

[amerikajin]

I'm glad that we're pretty much in agreement that it is wrong to intentionally humiliate or discriminate against anyone on the basis of their appearance. I think even those who have been somewhat contrarian on these threads can agree to that.

 

However, our society is accepting obesity more and more these days, and that is not a good attitude. Each person should always do what they can to keep themselves in the best possible shape. Preaching against the dangers of obesity isn't about prejudice; it's about pride in one's own appearance, and it's about personal health and well-being.

 

I think we should always accept obese people (and anyone else) for being who they are. But I do not think we should accept poor lifestyle habits and health conditions when we don't have to. That's settling for less than our best, and that's unacceptable in my book.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by DerangedAngel

You did not understand the example then. In my example, the men are [font=courier new]EXACTLY[/font] the same, aside from their physical appearance. Try again?

 

I never said that it was. Please don't misquote me!

 

This is what Mr Spock is saying: just because you don't find someone attractive, that doesn't mean someone should harp you saying you're discriminating. Or, if it does, then you're discriminating against Mr. Cruise.

 

-DA

 

(edited to add: not offended, sinner. I don't blame you.)

 

try again for what? i told you my answer. my answer is i wouldn't have enough to form a decision based on the information provided by seeing two different guys in a bar. i totally don't get what you mean by "the men are exactly the same" because they aren't.

 

i didn't misquote you. if i had quoted you, i'd put quotations around what you said.

 

sigh.

 

you said (and i quote), "I believe Mr Spock is correct, LFP. If you argue with that, then you must be claiming to find every single person in the world attractive. Otherwise, you're just discriminating." i'm saying that it appears you are talking about personal preferences which are not the same thing as prejudice. so no need to start sputtering that you've been misquoted.

 

i'm NOT talking about people talking about their personal preferences so i'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to turn it into that. i'm talking directly about the people that straight up say they are prejudiced against fat people. do you see the difference?

 

and what the hell are we arguing about? the thread is about bashing fat people. the thread is not about personal preferences.

[sinner]

not offended, sinner. I don't blame you.)

 

 

Of course, DA, I'd make an exception in your case!!!

 

Although I note that the folks carrying on this conversation now--you, Amer, lfp and yours truly--all currently have personal photo avatars. A mere coincidence, I'm sure.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by amerikajin

I'm glad that we're pretty much in agreement that it is wrong to intentionally humiliate or discriminate against anyone on the basis of their appearance. I think even those who have been somewhat contrarian on these threads can agree to that.

 

However, our society is accepting obesity more and more these days, and that is not a good attitude. Each person should always do what they can to keep themselves in the best possible shape. Preaching against the dangers of obesity isn't about prejudice; it's about pride in one's own appearance, and it's about personal health and well-being.

 

I think we should always accept obese people (and anyone else) for being who they are. But I do not think we should accept poor lifestyle habits and health conditions when we don't have to. That's settling for less than our best, and that's unacceptable in my book.

 

you're right. we shouldn't accept obesity. but we should accept obese people. disliking and not accepting the problem of obesity is different than disliking and not accepting obese people.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

Of course, DA, I'd make an exception in your case!!!

 

Although I note that the folks carrying on this conversation now--you, Amer, lfp and yours truly--all currently have personal photo avatars. A mere coincidence, I'm sure.

 

i knew you'd notice that!