She wants to sleep at her ex's place

[Sircrax]

My gf (of over a year) is going overseas for a week. Today, she told me she was going to sleep over at her ex-boyfriend's house. She said I shouldn't worry because she'd sleep on the couch 'so nothing would happen'.

 

(Immediately I thought: "well of course you'd sleep on the couch! That's not the issue! Where else would you sleep? His bed? Has that thought actually occurred to you? It must have, or you wouldn't have phrased it the way you did...)

 

But I let her finish before interrupting with a jealous tirade.

 

She continued by saying that she could, however, stay at a female friend's place instead. It was 15 minutes further from the city centre and thus less convenient. She asked me, "is it ok if I sleep over at his?"

 

To which I replied with a stunned silence. Then I explained why it was definitely NOT ok for her to sleep at an ex's place under any circumstances.

I told her that I trust her (I'm not actually convinced by the veracity of that statement, on second thought)... but trust is earned by not deliberately placing yourself in situations where that trust might be tested.

I hate to be controlling, I said, but for my own sake, and the sake of our relationship, I have to draw boundaries somewhere. If I don't feel comfortable with something, I have to speak up. I expect her to do the same.

Doing otherwise is to invite misunderstandings, jealousy, hurt, and worse.

There are things I won't accept, no matter what, and this is a major one.

It's about respect and mutual understanding. How would she feel if our roles were reversed, etc.

 

Anyway, she quickly apologised, said she completely understood, and that she'd stay at her female friend's place instead. She then asked me if I was angry with her.

 

I replied that I was, but that it was normal for me to be rattled. I told her I loved her and that I was glad she discussed it with me beforehand, and that she accepted my decision.

 

Sounds great, right? Grade A communication, well done, etc. We understand each other and our boundaries better. Clap clap clap.

 

The matter is, for all intents and purposes, resolved.

 

Except it isn't. Not in my gut. I'm now going through the motions of a jealous, insecure man. A crappy boyfriend, in other words. This girl adores and respects me, and yet I find myself ruminating:

Why would she even consider such a thing in the first place? It seems like such a basic thing NOT to do... where are her boundaries? What is her thought process? What are her limits? Can I really trust her?

 

I've reached a sort of epiphany: I don't trust this girl as much as I should. I hope these feelings disappear soon, but if they don't, I fear the relationship as a whole stands on shakier ground than I thought.

 

I know I'm overreacting. Still, as I see it, there are 2 possibilities here:

 

1. I'm a jealous idiot. She's wonderful. I should get over it... and if I really can't trust her, that's my problem and I should let her go for both our sakes.

2. She's wonderful, I'm an idiot... but we have fundamentally different expectations from a relationship. We may not be compatible in the long-run. I should let her go for both our sakes.

 

Am I being a neurotic, overanalytical, distrustful scumbag? Am I right to question the relationship at such a basic level? Am I just looking for an excuse to bail?

Edited January 6, 2013 by Sircrax

[Sircrax]

Quick background:

 

My girlfriend has very low self-esteem. She also has a history of promiscuity (over 25 sexual partners).

The ex-bf whose place she planned to stay at, is one she cheated on. (The relationship was overdue for a breakup, he was treating her like crap, and she told him immediately after the deed... 'extenuating circumstances', in other words.)

 

I don't want to pass judgment based on her past. I'd rather people not judge me on my history, either.

Also, I respect her prodigious sexual history. It speaks of experience. She's seen things, done things, and she knows what she wants. It's me. I should be flattered, not threatened. To be honest, I'm both.

But obviously it must bother me if I'm bringing it up here. Especially if I'm bringing it up in order to justify my suspicions.

 

Speaking of which, I once caught her flirting unacceptably (back and forth texts, emails, etc - not snooping btw) with a coworker whom she was getting a bit too close to. We had a long discussion, I vented my geelings of betrayal, profuse apologies were offered, and we moved on. (Or did we?)

 

The more I think about this, the more I realise I have more misgivings than I care to admit.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Sircrax

[KungFuJoe]

You AGAIN? Didn't you post this EXACT scenario 6 months ago?

 

You do know that a simple google search with your text will easily dig this up, right?

 

I suggest you move along...

[Sircrax]

What? I'll try a google search to see what you're talking about.

 

I previously posted about the flirty texts thing about 6-9 months ago, yeah, but not on loveshack.

 

Lo and behold, people have similar problems! I can't account for the similar writing style (which I assume is a commonality between my posts and the other Mysterious Thread, or you wouldn't be so abrasive about it), but I can tell you that this is a genuine post, that this girl is leaving today, and that we just had the phone conversation about boundaries a few hours ago.

 

I'm not responsible for other people's posting history, so if this is your attitude, kindly sod off.

 

Edit: googled a random selection of my text. No relevant results. Googled "gf sleep ex place". Saw lots of similar discussions. I'm not sure what your point is, dear obnoxious stranger.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Sircrax

[Bryanp]

The fact that she has had a history of promiscuity and actually cheated previously with this guy is huge. The fact that she would even consider spending nights at this guy's house is unbelievable and really shows highly disrespectful behavior toward you. This is a really bad sign. Either she knows what she is doing or simply does not have a clue to be faithful and be in a committed relationship. Something is not quite right her. In addition, this seems to imply that she has already been in contact with this ex boyfriend about this behind your back.

 

If the roles were reversed I seriously doubt if she would be so thrilled. By the way how would you really know if she was not with this guy when she goes to visit?

[carhill]

'I feel that our relationship would be compromised by your spending the night at an ex'es house in a distant place. This is a person I've never met and with whom you've had romantic and sexual relations. Had I made a similar request of you, how would you feel?'

 

Listen.

 

The important thing IMO is that she validates your feelings in the matter, along with respecting your communicated boundaries.

 

What has her historical perspective been regarding your ex love interests/girlfriends/spouses, etc? Were you all one big happy family? Or? Consistency and parity are healthy, IMO.

 

The latter part of your post describes your work on yourself. You have choices. Accepting your feelings doesn't have to follow any one particular path. You choose. Good luck.

[Sircrax]

Holy crap you're right.

 

Given my already suspicious nature, how the hell could I have overlooked this? She obviously accepted his proposal before even deigning to mention it to me.

 

I suppose I was willing to "trust" that she would do as I asked. I have no way of knowing for sure that she will comply with my demand. I think that's beside the point though. If I need to look for hard evidence (an exercise in futility and frustration), then I shouldn't be with her.

 

She is extremely caring, albeit needy, and, I must repeat, adores me... to the point where I have questioned my ability to love her back with the same intensity. I'm rather aloof in comparison.

 

But that's no reason to take her predilections/past behaviours for granted.

 

Looks like I need to reexamine this relationship.

 

...and we just moved in together a few weeks ago

/facepalm

Edited January 6, 2013 by Sircrax

[Michael Johnson]

Quick background:

 

My girlfriend has very low self-esteem. She also has a history of promiscuity (over 25 sexual partners).

The ex-bf whose place she planned to stay at, is one she cheated on. (The relationship was overdue for a breakup, he was treating her like crap, and she told him immediately after the deed... 'extenuating circumstances', in other words.)

 

I don't want to pass judgment based on her past. I'd rather people not judge me on my history, either.

Also, I respect her prodigious sexual history. It speaks of experience. She's seen things, done things, and she knows what she wants. It's me. I should be flattered, not threatened. To be honest, I'm both.

But obviously it must bother me if I'm bringing it up here. Especially if I'm bringing it up in order to justify my suspicions.

 

Speaking of which, I once caught her flirting unacceptably (back and forth texts, emails, etc - not snooping btw) with a coworker whom she was getting a bit too close to. We had a long discussion, I vented my geelings of betrayal, profuse apologies were offered, and we moved on. (Or did we?)

 

The more I think about this, the more I realise I have more misgivings than I care to admit.

 

Are you the guy she cheated on her ex with?

[Sircrax]

Are you the guy she cheated on her ex with?

 

No. I wouldn't base an LTR on that.

 

I talked to her about her previous indiscretion and made it clear to her that while it is not my place to judge her past actions, cheating is cheating. She acknowledged this. She said it was wrong despite the circumstances.

 

Her words are cogent, her stated principles sound, but her actions themselves are contradictory and betray severe self-esteem issues... not to mention problems with boundaries/inappropriate behaviour/obvious susceptibility to future transgressions.

 

I'm already committed, but it's never too late to have second thoughts.

I'm having those now. In spades.

This sucks.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Sircrax

[Michael Johnson]

No. I wouldn't base an LTR on that.

 

I talked to her about her previous indiscretion and made it clear to her that while it is not my place to judge her past actions, cheating is cheating. She acknowledged this. She said it was wrong despite the circumstances.

 

Her words are cogent, her stated principles sound, but her actions themselves are contradictory and betray severe self-esteem issues... not to mention problems with boundaries/inappropriate behaviour/susceptibility to future transgressions.

 

I'm already committed, but it's never too late to have second thoughts.

I'm having those now. In spades.

This sucks.

 

Regardless of what she told you about him or what you've assumed about him, he didn't deserve to be cheated on. And based on her fruitful past, I'd say you DO have a right to be worried, if you know she has repeated boundary issues despite her acknowledgement of them.

 

She'll be going away overseas (and why???) where you will not be able to know what she's doing regardless of her saying that she can go sleep over at her "female friend's house." By the way, is this female friend even real? If she knows that is the best option then why didn't she propose that beforehand, instead of contemplating sleeping at her ex's house, much less sleep on his couch and telling you not to worry? She's telling you exactly what's on her mind, and knowing you won't be there to see what's going on, most likely she'll go over to his house and sleep with him anyway despite your rightful worries.

[road]

This is the time to secretly install a GPS on GF phone. Then have GF and XBF addresses. Then sit and wait.

 

To confirm what everyone knows. Dump her.

[SpiralOut]

She wants to do what she wants and is hoping that you'll be enough of a chump to let her. Because if she has your permission then it'll be okay.

[Bryanp]

How did she explain communicating with him about staying with him behind your back?

[Sircrax]

She's going overseas for a family funeral.

 

She left already. The more I think about it, the more I get this sinking feeling in my gut. Something's seriously wrong with our relationship.

 

I just sent her a long email explaining all my misgivings. Saying that we need to have a serious conversation about the foundation of our relationship.

 

I feel like a chump. I haven't jumped to any conclusions. I've only realised the obvious, too late. That we have vaaaastly different values on what constitutes an exclusive relationship. Also, that I've been seriously in need of some perspective.

 

If anyone else came to me with this problem, I'd be highly inclined to tell them to end it...

 

I feel like crap. I believe I've been lying to myself for quite a while.

[Darren Steez]

Something doesn't ring true about this post. First she's wonderful then later she has a history of promiscuity, almost as an extra note to paint her in a bad light.

 

Sooo with that said...

 

Let her sleep at her ex's, you dated her knowing her past so it's time to leave the past in the past and try to get past it, because if you can't get past it then you can't move forward and if you can't move forward and past it then in 6 months time you'll be posting the same scenario because you didn't deal with the issues at hand.

[Sircrax]

Something doesn't ring true about this post. First she's wonderful then later she has a history of promiscuity, almost as an extra note to paint her in a bad light.

 

Sooo with that said...

 

Let her sleep at her ex's, you dated her knowing her past so it's time to leave the past in the past and try to get past it, because if you can't get past it then you can't move forward and if you can't move forward and past it then in 6 months time you'll be posting the same scenario because you didn't deal with the issues at hand.

 

When I confronted her about the flirty exchanges last time, it got pretty ugly. As in, we were teetering on the brink for several weeks, and I was being a huge chump about it. She acknowledged her mistake but despite trying, I couldn't let it lie. I dragged it out. Every day we spent together, we spent under the shadow of my imminent choice regarding the relationship. I should have made my decision then. Turns out I only postponed it.

 

And yeah, she's great. Is that so hard to believe? Some aspects of her are wonderful. She does everything for me, she seems super devoted to me, she seems to love me with a sincerity and an intensity that I've never experienced before.

On the other hand, there's all that other stuff.

 

Obviously there's cognitive dissonance there. But isn't that a classic case of denial, or wanting to brush over your love's glaring faults in order to justify staying with them? Abused wives do it all the time.

 

(Not that I'm comparing myself to a battered spouse.)

 

There's also the complete uncertainty as to whether I'm freaking out over a simple (albeit crucial & potentially disastrous) chasm in values, or whether I actually have something tangible (i.e. infidelity) to worry about.

 

I'm confused, and if that's reflected in my posts, then so be it.

 

Edit: her history of promiscuity is just that. History. I'd be a fool to ignore it, but I'd be stupid to give it more importance than her actual behaviour with me. I wasn't involved. It happened before I came along. Using it against her - even though I am, since I can't help it - feels underhanded.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Sircrax

[NoMagicBullet]

... but trust is earned by not deliberately placing yourself in situations where that trust might be tested.

I hate to be controlling, I said, but for my own sake, and the sake of our relationship, I have to draw boundaries somewhere. If I don't feel comfortable with something, I have to speak up. I expect her to do the same.

Doing otherwise is to invite misunderstandings, jealousy, hurt, and worse.

There are things I won't accept, no matter what, and this is a major one.

It's about respect and mutual understanding. How would she feel if our roles were reversed, etc.

 

Exactly! Very well put. One shouldn't just expect to be trusted, one should want to demonstrate they are worthy of another's trust by one's choices and actions.

 

 

I know I'm overreacting. Still, as I see it, there are 2 possibilities here:

 

1. I'm a jealous idiot. She's wonderful. I should get over it... and if I really can't trust her, that's my problem and I should let her go for both our sakes.

2. She's wonderful, I'm an idiot... but we have fundamentally different expectations from a relationship. We may not be compatible in the long-run. I should let her go for both our sakes.

 

Am I being a neurotic, overanalytical, distrustful scumbag? Am I right to question the relationship at such a basic level? Am I just looking for an excuse to bail?

 

#1 -- No, you are right on target. And not an idiot. Her staying at the ex-bf's is not at all appropriate.

#2 -- Possibly, that is, that you have different expectations from a relationship. You are still not an idiot.

 

Given her past and the elements of this particular situation, I think it's very normal for you to not be very trusting of her right now. The fact that she thought it was OK to stay with her ex is definite cause for concern. However, until you have solid proof that she's cheating or planning to cheat, you could be causing her and you a lot of unecessary grief. You may have to wait and see how things play out.

 

Is this girl in her early 20s? How old are you? Were you invited on this overseas trip? If not, why not?

 

Your post sounds exactly like this one here on LS last August: "girlfriend was in bed with another guy!" I think that's the post KungFuJoe was referring to. Except that you're posting before she leaves on the trip, and Citizen-D posted his story after he found out that his gf did, indeed, sleep in ex-bf's bed on her trip, after she had already brought up the idea to Citizen-D. Do read that thread -- it will show you that you are not at all unreasonably paranoid or crazy that you feel suspicious that she brought it up. Hate to say it, but the GPS thing is looking like a good idea...

[Michael Johnson]

When I confronted her about the flirty exchanges last time, it got pretty ugly. As in, we were teetering on the brink for several weeks, and I was being a huge chump about it. I should have made my decision then. Turns out I only postponed it.

 

And yeah, she's great. Is that so hard to believe? Some aspects of her are wonderful. She does everything for me, she seems super devoted to me, she seems to love me with a sincerity and an intensity that I've never experienced before.

On the other hand, there's all that other stuff.

 

Obviously there's cognitive dissonance there. But isn't that a classic case of denial, or wanting to brush over your love's glaring faults in order to justify staying with them? Abused wives do it all the time.

 

(Not that I'm comparing myself to a battered spouse.)

 

There's also the complete uncertainty as to whether I'm freaking out over a simple (albeit crucial & potentially disastrous) chasm in values, or whether I actually have something tangible (i.e. infidelity) to worry about.

 

I'm confused, and if that's reflected in my posts, then so be it.

 

Edit: her history of promiscuity is just that. History. I'd be a fool to ignore it, but I'd be stupid to give it more importance than her actual behaviour with me. I wasn't involved. It happened before I came along. Using it against her - even though I am, since I can't help it - feels underhanded.

 

Very sorry about this. Good luck on whatever you do when she comes back.

[NoMagicBullet]

Just read your additional posts, written while I was writing mine. Family funeral... okay, I could see that you might not be able to get off work to go. But why would she be staying at an ex's and not with family there? Whole thing is fishy. But yeah, it does sound like you two have very different values when it comes to relationships.

[Sircrax]

Thanks Michael. Cheers Bullet, I'll check that thread out now.

 

I just feel weak and worn out.

 

I have to discuss this with her now. My timing (the email, which she'll get as soon as she lands) isn't great, given that she just left... relationship troubles could just be another excuse for her to fool around.

 

She wanted me to come along - asked me to several times - but I'm on my own trip overseas right now, visiting family. Her trip is for a funeral. But she'll be there for a week so she'll see some friends too. Her old acquaintances from her wilder days.

 

Thanks again for the input. If I seem dim, deluded or indecisive, it's because (as clear-cut as this may be from the outside) it's hard to deal with.

 

Edit: @Bullet

 

She's staying with family for the first half of the week. Her friends are in another city, one where she lived and worked on her own and in which she has no family. There's plenty of fishy stuff going on, but that's not it.

 

Another nugget: she keeps trying to make me feel guilty for 'leaving her behind'. Saying she has trouble sleeping without me, is losing weight, etc. It's manipulation for sure. Probably subconscious. And it doesn't bode well if she thinks my absence is something I'm 'inflicting' upon her. She might decide, consciously or no, to 'punish' me for it, or get her own back.

 

She's not a vindictive person, but the mind works in insidious ways. Especially for those with anxiety and low self-esteem.

 

Edit: oh and she's 25. I'm younger.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Sircrax

[Bryanp]

Again it is essential to realize that you she must have communicated with her ex prior to asking you if it was all right to stay at his place. She never would have asked you if she had not set it up prior with the ex. It simple does not make sense otherwise. Good luck.

[salparadise]

You are not being unreasonable at all. Staying at her ex's is absolutely inappropriate. Asking you if you mind is not only inappropriate but demonstrates a lack of understanding, concern for your feelings and respect for your relationship. Now it could have been simply a thoughtless thing based on her not having any intention to cheat and mistakenly assuming that you fully understood and would trust her to be in that situation and not be tempted. If her intention was to cheat with this guy, surely she wouldn't have asked you about staying at his place, she would have stayed mum about the whole thing and you'd be none the wiser. So you two need to get on the same page with maintaining trust by not only avoiding obviously inappropriate situations but avoiding mere appearance of impropriety in either thought or deed.

 

Now the other posters seem to think it's a big deal if she communicated with this guy. I don't think this is necessarily so if her thoughts were completely innocent. But when you add the complication of a promiscuous history and at least once incidence of cheating on a previous partner, I understand your concern. I think your thoughts about ending the relationship based on merely fantastical stories you conjure up should be set aside as nothing more than paranoia.

 

What you do need to figure out is, does she take fidelity as seriously as you do or does she think a little roll in the hay if nobody would ever find out is just something that people do, does she have a strong value system that she adheres to strictly or does she easily excuse herself when the situation warrants, and does she have the full capacity for empathy, conscience and remorse or are some of those not fully developed the way they are in healthy individuals.

 

I hope this all works our for the best and you have a happy life together.

[NoMagicBullet]

Okay, Sircrax, this is a bit of an aside from the main issue of this thread, but I really feel the need to point out a big mistake of yours:

 

She asked you several times to go with her to this funeral, and you turned her down.

 

BIG mistake. You've been together over a year now; you should expect to go support your gf when there is a death in the family. You had the chance to demonstrate to her your committment to the relationship, and you blew it.

 

Maybe you had all your travel plans made and it would have been a pain and some extra money to change them, but you should have done it. The only reasonable options I see for not traveling with a partner to a funeral are:

1) You will lose your job if you go.

2) Someone has to stay behind to watch the kids. (If taking the kids just won't work.)

3) The relationship is less than 12 months old.

 

I don't see any of those applying here, unless there is more you aren't telling us.

 

I think your refusal to go has put a lot of doubt in her mind about how invested you are in the relationship and how she can expect to be treated in the future. You say she adores you, is very caring, yet you tend to be aloof... now when she needs you to step up and show her you support her and will stand by her side, you do your own thing. There's some cognitive dissonance going on alright, right there in your head. She may act like it's all okay, but how do you really think she feels that you wouldn't go, be there with her for the funeral, and be together as a couple in front of her family and friends? If I was her, I'd be damned ashamed to call you my boyfriend. I think you need to get straight about your expectations for a relationship before you start interrogating your gf about hers.

 

Now I don't think her asking that question about staying over with the ex is so much about an actual intention to cheat as a way to hint to you that she has other options for a boyfriend if you don't want the role. But when she gets your e-mail... oh boy. She just might decide to hell with you and do the ex anyway.

 

Too bad you didn't tell us the whole story when you first posted and before you sent that e-mail.

Edited January 7, 2013 by NoMagicBullet
spelling, grammar

[NoMagicBullet]

Another nugget: she keeps trying to make me feel guilty for 'leaving her behind'. Saying she has trouble sleeping without me, is losing weight, etc. It's manipulation for sure. Probably subconscious. And it doesn't bode well if she thinks my absence is something I'm 'inflicting' upon her. She might decide, consciously or no, to 'punish' me for it, or get her own back.

 

Hell, man, you did leave her behind! When she needed you to be there for her! You should feel guilty! What was so important that you stuck with your own trip and ditched her? Did you even invite her on your trip before the funeral came up?

[Sircrax]

1. The funeral is for a relative she wasn't close to. She sees it as an obligation more than anything else. The funeral came up shortly before I left. As in, a week. My travel arrangements were not flexible. I would hae lost several thousand dollars I didn't have in the process.

2. We were supposed to do part of this trip (to a distant land where my family is) together. We'd been talking about it for a long time. But she had to cancel because of lack of funds. It's really, really expensive. We're talking intercontinental, transoceanic travel.

3. I didn't cancel my trip, because some of my close relatives were complaining they hadn't seen me in a long time, and I have familial obligations. Not to mention the cost. We're not talking Boston-NY or East Coast to West. We're talking 9 hours' time difference.

4. I expected my gf to be a big girl and understand my responsibilities. I wanted her to come, I asked her to, she ended up not being able to.

To test or punish me with something like this is not acceptable. BOUNDARIES is the whole issue. How can I be ok with what she asked me? What kind of precedent does it set? Am I supposed to stfu, but my Stoic mask on, and not express my complicated feelings over the matter because I 'abandoned' her and am clearly a terrible, unsupporting boyfriend?

 

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate the different perspective. And in a way, you're right. I should have gone with her. I should have supported her by being there, thereby showing my commitment to her and taking the next step by meeting her family.

 

But we're both adults and, 'test' or no test, we clearly have different definitions of what constitutes good behaviour. Not to mention the trust issues this has brought up.

 

I can't wait a week to clear the air. The email I sent her, about us needing to clarify our boundaries, may be ill-timed and ill-advised, yes. The ominous undertones about the 'foundation of our relationship' may well push her away.

But then again, it may lead to some sort of catharsis. Some long overdue conversation about who we are and what we want from eah other.

 

It's not completely unreasonable, surely.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Sircrax