NC the ultimate FU or indifference?

[ThatJustHappened]

Is it not what is ultimately best for HIM because he got caught?

 

So? Just because it's what's best for the cheater doesn't mean it's not also what's best for everyone else involved. His priorities are the least important on the list.

[wanting more]

That is not how I heard him at all. I think that's stereotyping that the MM is always evil incarnate and poor OW is his victims even if not the victim overall. Trust me I am his severest critic. I was ready to take my sister home to my place on DDay and told her to kick his ass. She is definitely NOT letting him off lightly but I'm even tougher. I do not know that I will ever forgive him. Loyalty is a big issue for me and he had none for her, and I have plenty.

 

But he was crying with self loathing many times we talked through this. They (he and his wife) tend to misinterpret each other and jump to conclusions so sometimes they would talk through thigs with me do I could say "whoa!"

 

I don't think he holds the OW responsible for HIS actions in the slightest. He holds her accountable for hers. For using children to get excuses to cross boundaries. For painting herself as "counselor" interpreting his wife (negatively, surprise surprise), and for feeding him lines she thought he should use in counseling (actually designed to piss her off and get her to give in and say oh yeah you're right we are done actually". He sees her as feeding him that stuff as evil, and him for accepting it as evil.

 

Difference is he's on his knees begging forgiveness and a chance to prove he can be the good man he once was. She is containing to fish.

 

Now I only put that because the stereotype of the M after DDay is so unbalanced. I'm not saying Promises xMM or any other Mm is like that. But evidently they do sometimes do the right thig in the end by their character and wife like Seren's H and my sisters H.

 

Not all OW are the ones who were "naive" and "preyed on". Some Mm are too. And just like for OW it is no excuse. There is no excuse possible. But it is part of why R may be possible. I think many OW here at least project, or are in denial that R is always doomed or fake. I've seen behind the veil of a few reconciling couples and it can be that he is truly sorry, and truly had the capacity to regain his character.

 

I will say that it seems no A had 2 such people. There always seems to be one who won't let go/continues to favor betrayal ad an MO. Sometimes it's the MM. Sometimes it's the OW.

 

*

*

I think its a great thing for*his BW if he's on his knees beging for her forgiveness.* I have no doubt in my mind that some*WSs, *when faced with a d-day or something just goes off in*their head and they realize what*they're *really doing by being involved in an A and want to do everything to prove to their BS that they can be the person, or better than they were before the A started.* And they can R.*

*

I'd love to sit here and say my xMM was different, he really loves me but his old ball and chain is keeping him locked in their dungeon so he can't be with me.* But I know my reality,* he chose to stay with his BW,* he chose to work on his M for himself, her and their family.. HE CHOSE THEM.*

*

BUT one thing that I absolutely hate, is when I hear or read the stories of how the WS talks soo bad about the OW/OM after the A has ended.* I do understand there are some circumstances (the bunny boiler,* the OW/OM who just wont' go away) but we're (OW/OM) not all crazy.* I know my xMM still tells his BW and family I was the "seducer",* he was the innocent party in the A,* all the threats I made to out him to her if he left me.*He's portrayed me to be the crazy woman,* stupid woman,* lonely woman, and this I read in her emails she's sending my SO.* I just don't understand how he can say all these things.* It doesn't bother me nearly as much as it used to.* I guess maybe its helped me get over him quicker because its shown me I really don't know who he was when we were together

*

I guess that's why your post hit a nerve with me.* If a WS wants to R, great,* work on your relationship.*But continually throwing the OW/OM under the bus is something*I dont' understand.* I was good enough to F**k for 3-1/2 years but now I'm trash since your BS found out about me.* (sorry, probably got a little too personal for me)

[Got it]

wanting - simply put, the more he pounces on the evils of you the less he has to focus on his part in it and to divert his wife's attention to the same. He is still not owning his part in it, he isn't working on the whys and he isn't working on how he got there. So he is more likely to do it again.

 

The opposite of love is indifference not hate. What it shows is there is still alot of attention tied to you.

 

There are a few (f)WS here who still have so much energy towards their AP I always wonder how much they actually learned from the experience and what they are doing to work on themselves. Some times with all the slamming of the AP I think the "lady/man doth protest too much".

[Snowflower]

*

 

I guess that's why your post hit a nerve with me.* If a WS wants to R, great,* work on your relationship.*But continually throwing the OW/OM under the bus is something*I dont' understand.* I was good enough to F**k for 3-1/2 years but now I'm trash since your BS found out about me.* (sorry, probably got a little too personal for me)

 

I think the inverse is true too. The BW was good enough to marry and stay married to for X amount of years but now she is such a b*tch since the OW came into the picture.

 

Really, it depends on the MM/WS. If an OW comes on to LS is wondering about what her xMM is saying to his wife about her, well then think back to what he said about his wife or marriage during the A. I get that some men have enough class to not slam the wife directly but they will still insinuate things about her or the marriage itself.

 

Because obviously if he only said good things about his wife and marriage, the OW wouldn't have gotten into a relationship with him.

 

Let's pick a couple of common ones from the MM Handbook...

 

1. "Our marriage was over years ago. We are just staying together for the kids. We are like roommates now." In other words, seriously minimizing the marriage.

 

The inverse once the affair is over as told to the wife. "Look honey, we were just friends at work for a long time. We didn't even talk all that much. One night we went out as a group of co-workers and bam, it just happened." Here he seriously minimizes all those first touches, glances and awesome conversation that the he had with xOW.

 

2. "My wife stays with me because of my paycheck." (ha, my H actually told his OW this one)

 

The inverse: "I told you, it was just for sex. I never really liked her all that much."

 

 

So think about how much (or how little) or in what ways he minimized or outright bashed his wife and marriage. Then you will have an idea of how he is talking about you to his wife now because that is his M.O. in relationships especially parallel ones like a marriage and an affair.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Snowflower

[Got it]

He wanted to let me know (in so many words) that he was around and thinking of me.

 

My response? Big whoopie! That and a buck will get you a coffee.

 

Stupid man.

[Got it]

We disagree. I just don't like being misinterpreted without at least trying to clarify.

 

And right after dday how likely is it that a MP realizes the depths of what they did to such an extent that they are using this infinite realm of blame to equally blame themselves and the other person?

 

And how likely is it that this is happen while at the same time breaking their self imposed NC to tell their AP (whom remember they hate SOOOO much) that they are thinking of them.

 

Oh yeah. I stand corrected. This is ownership at its finest.

 

It would be interesting to see, how many relationships where the WS who professes the most negative energy towards their AP are also more the ones that break NC.

 

Why is it deemed to be acceptable to continue putting that level of energy, any level of energy towards the AP, negative or positive? At some point you want them to not be thought of except as a very distance and I would imagine unpleasant memory. Continue to nurture the energy, negative or positive, continues to feed the connection.

 

Myself personally, if anyone in my life has such active disgust of someone else, especially for a past wrong, this would be a red flag for me. There is still too much focus.

[twinsmom]

#2, after a long, hard road..

[wanting more]

I think you haven't understood my point, or maybe you just don't trust a MMs intentions and remorse enough to accept my point. Can understand if that's the case but remember I'm talking about someone who definitely isn't your xMM so while I don't think either is unique, they may not be tw same.*

*

*****I don't look at every MM as though he were my xMM.* I believe there really are xMM who are truly remorseful and do everything they can to R******

 

The thing is- his OW *WAS* trash as you put it- not my expression- all through- she had to be to be with a MM. He just didn't see it because he was trash also. If he decides to reform, repent, whatever, just supposing he was once a man with a conscience and not all of them are- he is going to judge you both- BOTH- both- as trash during the affair.*

*

******So does that mean you believe every OW is trash,* that’s what I understand from that statement.* HE shouldn’t judge anyone, especially the woman he was having an A with.* You can judge,* his BS can judge,* HE shouldn’t judge because NOW he sees all the harm he AND his OW has caused.* I know my xMMs BW calls me trash and a lot worse,* I hurt her and accept that,* BUT I think its pretty *****y that my xMM or any xMM can sit there and trash their OW.* My xMM surely didn’t think I was trash for 3-1/2years, so now he’s chosen his BS,* he should put his energy in that, and asking for her forgiveness, and working on THEIR relationship, I’ve taken their words, and insults and the last email I sent said “work on your relationship,* I’ve compeletely stayed out of your life now,* stop trying to bring me back in it”* **I’ve been NC with my xMM for almost 5 months and have no desire or want to ever speak to him again******

 

So this characterization that he's not to blame and she is - is not what he was saying.

 

*****I’ve never said it was all his fault,* or all my fault.* I take my responsibility in what I’ve done.* I don’t think xMM has,* but that’s his issue, not mine******

 

I'm sorry that yes it involves him saying she was a horrible person. But if he wasn't really thoroughly conscious that he was every bit as bad, well trust me his wife and her family would be ramming that home.

*

******He should deal with the horrible person he is or was, **leave her alone now.* (remember,* I am speaking from my own experience,* but I also think if my xMM BS was on this board,* she would be typing the same thing you are)******

 

I see it a lot on these boards, that blame on the Ow is "throwing under the bus" or taking away from his blame. Sure it happens but it isn't necessary. There's unlimited blame for both parties.

*

*****Me getting “thrown under the bus” is different (in my eyes) than placing blame on me.* My xMM lied (and actually continues to lie) about his involvement in the A.* He’s said some pretty ridiculous things about me and things I did to try and “seduce” him into continuing this A.* Whether is BW believes him or not, I really don’t know or care at this point,* she still loves to email and text my SO with his version of the A.******

*

******Couldn't get the bold to work so my replies are ****

[Cali408]

2.

 

It's not about revenge with me, it's about saving what I have in reality. But there is a little ego boost saying, I went out on top. I don't need you and I'm moving forward just like Barack Obama's campaign!

[promises]

i haven't responded. I'll admit there have been a few moments when I almost did. Those moments when I felt like this small tinge of hope that he missed me and just needed to hear from me. That pathetic moment when you forget that he's kissing the h*ll out of his BS life right now to make home life awesome. Yet, he reaches out to me like I'm going to give him a quick fix of 'yes women love you and I still do, too'... It's painful to know that is the compartment I fit in.

 

Anyway, I didn't respond. And, I know why now. It just hurts all over and I don't need that hurt.

[2sunny]

The only time to respond is if he ever says "my divorce is final and I ONLY want you"

 

 

Other than that - he's just checking to see if you take the bait every time he tosses his line in the water.

 

Don't bite!

[shame_on_me]

Sounds like most of these MM don't seem to care about the pain they inflict on their wife during the A and then after don't seem to care about the pain they inflicted on the AP. Sounds like a bunch of winners to me.

 

This has stood out to me as a mm who has recently began NC with exow I would like to state (in my case anyway) At the beginning of my affair I felt disgusted with myself I hated myself (still do) and felt extremely guilty for what I was doing to my wife therefor I done extra things around the house, took her and the family out to dinner more often, bought her things ... Yes this was out of guilt.

 

My problem was that I simply could not resist my ow - I am 49 and she is a beautiful 30 year old, I thought we could have sex and move on, I didn't think I would become emotionally attached to her, she later informed me that I was stupid for thinking this and she always knew it was more than sex. I always told her I would never leave my wife and family for her, yes I loved her but a life with her would not work out, it couldn't. She knew this.

 

I miss her dearly and I wish I could take away her pain and I know the best thing for her is to let her go, it's not fair on her and especially not fair to keep deceiving my wife but ultimately my exow has to move on and be happy, I can't make her happy, I'm not what she wants me to be, I belong with someone else I belong to my family not hers. The pain I am going through right now feels unbearable and I imagine she is going through the same but this is for the best. She may even hate me, I hope she doesn't I hope she remembers the good times we had.

[promises]

This has stood out to me as a mm who has recently began NC with exow I would like to state (in my case anyway) At the beginning of my affair I felt disgusted with myself I hated myself (still do) and felt extremely guilty for what I was doing to my wife therefor I done extra things around the house, took her and the family out to dinner more often, bought her things ... Yes this was out of guilt.

 

My problem was that I simply could not resist my ow - I am 49 and she is a beautiful 30 year old, I thought we could have sex and move on, I didn't think I would become emotionally attached to her, she later informed me that I was stupid for thinking this and she always knew it was more than sex. I always told her I would never leave my wife and family for her, yes I loved her but a life with her would not work out, it couldn't. She knew this.

 

I miss her dearly and I wish I could take away her pain and I know the best thing for her is to let her go, it's not fair on her and especially not fair to keep deceiving my wife but ultimately my exow has to move on and be happy, I can't make her happy, I'm not what she wants me to be, I belong with someone else I belong to my family not hers. The pain I am going through right now feels unbearable and I imagine she is going through the same but this is for the best. She may even hate me, I hope she doesn't I hope she remembers the good times we had.

 

shame- speaking from the OW perspective, I can tell you that this was the most awful pain I have ever felt in terms of emotional. I have been so unbelievably hurt by this. So, yes, I'm sure she is in serious pain right now. BUT, reaching out to her is so much harder. Trust me... if I can help any former OW right now by saying to you, please don't break NC, then that is a blessing.. Because this has almost broken me.

 

Thanks for saying you miss her, though.. because I suppose somewhere I want to believe that at least some of what he and I shared was real to him, too.. and that he misses me even though it will never be.

[Got it]

Would you be disgusted by someone having killed someone? What would it take to make you disgusted to your core? No, you wouldn't want to think about what disgusted you, especially if you are guilty of the same, but you might need to think about it to help your partner heal. Or a Mm to say to his aw I just can't think about that woman, she's irrelevant, is a cop out.

 

Btw it wasn't straight after DDay it was about 2 years after that I talked to him about it. But I don't see why it would take that long. If you realize how truly disgusting your actions were then anyone with any logic will also realize at tw same time how disgusting the actions of his co conspirator.

 

Agree it's not consistent with routinely breaking NC though I think the reasons for breaking NC matter. I've posted on that somewhere.

 

I think the energy put into disgust is commensurate with the empathy with the victims. If you can't even be disgusted then you're not empathetic with your loved ones.

 

Put it this way- supposing he wasn't implicated, she was just someone go had done some other great wrong to his wife- she had deliberately run over her or harmed her family or something. He had nothing to do with it, she was just a stranger who did a bad thing. Could he be disgusted with her then? Is he still supposed to say he's irrelevant and be indifferent to her? I doubt it. I think disgust is totally normal, it's what I felt when my child was threatened, it's what my H felt when I was assaulted in the street by a thief. So I think you're really saying he can't do that because he's implicated. You don't believe he is equally disgusted with himself. That's your prerogative. In the case I described I was convinced.

 

MFH - I was discussing the OP's situation.

 

In the larger scene if this brought you peace, I am happy for you. I don't agree. I don't want my SO to give another woman any headspace especially after I found out he was screwing her. I would ideally like him to move past her and to her be completely unimportant.

 

This might be how I am. If I move past someone, if someone hurts me, I work very hard to forget them completely. They don't deserve any head space in my head.

[shame_on_me]

shame- speaking from the OW perspective, I can tell you that this was the most awful pain I have ever felt in terms of emotional. I have been so unbelievably hurt by this. So, yes, I'm sure she is in serious pain right now. BUT, reaching out to her is so much harder. Trust me... if I can help any former OW right now by saying to you, please don't break NC, then that is a blessing.. Because this has almost broken me.

 

Thanks for saying you miss her, though.. because I suppose somewhere I want to believe that at least some of what he and I shared was real to him, too.. and that he misses me even though it will never be.

 

I won't reach out to her as much as I want to right now, I know it is for the best and truthfully it breaks my f*cking heart knowing how much pain she is in, I would like nothing better than to hold her right now and tell her she can move on and be happy that she has her whole life ahead of her, im not so sure at this moment if I can ever move on from her, I miss her so much, her voice, smell, touch, giggle, everything. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm not leaving my family either, I will not do this to her anymore or to my wife. My wife is the innocent one not us.

[Got it]

I will add that my sister threw her H out because he wouldn't criticize the Ow or admit she was as bad ad he was. That was a week after DDay. He stayed with his brother and SIL for 2 weeks and in that time he got it- what h thought was "taking his responsibility" looked to his wife like protecting the OW. That's the crux, that's why you hate beig thrown under a bus or blamed- he's supposed to take 100% of it and protect you. When you are equally to blame. Good on her for not accepting that from him. When he finally worked that out he was able to do both- take 100% of the blame and day that the OW deserved the same.

 

Really???

 

Honey, if I am NC with him, if we are over. How would I know or care what he is saying? I would have no way to know, it wouldn't then impact my world, so how would I know if he had a voodoo doll made in my liking?

 

When you say "you" in that sentence, do you mean personally? It really doesn't mesh with my situation so that is why I ask.

 

I am talking not as a OW but as a MOW and as someone being cheated on. But I had no desire to sit there and denounce her to the guy. I mean really, what was he going to say? Oh no, I hated every minute of it. Please, if you cheat on me it better be for someone meaningful.

 

To each their own. And to each their own coping mechanisms.

[Got it]

This has stood out to me as a mm who has recently began NC with exow I would like to state (in my case anyway) At the beginning of my affair I felt disgusted with myself I hated myself (still do) and felt extremely guilty for what I was doing to my wife therefor I done extra things around the house, took her and the family out to dinner more often, bought her things ... Yes this was out of guilt.

 

My problem was that I simply could not resist my ow - I am 49 and she is a beautiful 30 year old, I thought we could have sex and move on, I didn't think I would become emotionally attached to her, she later informed me that I was stupid for thinking this and she always knew it was more than sex. I always told her I would never leave my wife and family for her, yes I loved her but a life with her would not work out, it couldn't. She knew this.

 

I miss her dearly and I wish I could take away her pain and I know the best thing for her is to let her go, it's not fair on her and especially not fair to keep deceiving my wife but ultimately my exow has to move on and be happy, I can't make her happy, I'm not what she wants me to be, I belong with someone else I belong to my family not hers. The pain I am going through right now feels unbearable and I imagine she is going through the same but this is for the best. She may even hate me, I hope she doesn't I hope she remembers the good times we had.

 

The kindest thing is letting her go if you can give her what she needs. Don't contact her, don't break NC. That is the best gift you can give her. Keeping her dangling, playing with her heart is the cruelest.

[promises]

I won't reach out to her as much as I want to right now, I know it is for the best and truthfully it breaks my f*cking heart knowing how much pain she is in, I would like nothing better than to hold her right now and tell her she can move on and be happy that she has her whole life ahead of her, im not so sure at this moment if I can ever move on from her, I miss her so much, her voice, smell, touch, giggle, everything. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm not leaving my family either, I will not do this to her anymore or to my wife. My wife is the innocent one not us.

 

Reaching out to her will only say, 'hey I cared about you, but, you see I care more about another woman. So goodbye again..'

[Catplates]

This has stood out to me as a mm who has recently began NC with exow I would like to state (in my case anyway) At the beginning of my affair I felt disgusted with myself I hated myself (still do) and felt extremely guilty for what I was doing to my wife therefor I done extra things around the house, took her and the family out to dinner more often, bought her things ... Yes this was out of guilt.

 

My problem was that I simply could not resist my ow - I am 49 and she is a beautiful 30 year old, I thought we could have sex and move on, I didn't think I would become emotionally attached to her, she later informed me that I was stupid for thinking this and she always knew it was more than sex. I always told her I would never leave my wife and family for her, yes I loved her but a life with her would not work out, it couldn't. She knew this.

 

I miss her dearly and I wish I could take away her pain and I know the best thing for her is to let her go, it's not fair on her and especially not fair to keep deceiving my wife but ultimately my exow has to move on and be happy, I can't make her happy, I'm not what she wants me to be, I belong with someone else I belong to my family not hers. The pain I am going through right now feels unbearable and I imagine she is going through the same but this is for the best. She may even hate me, I hope she doesn't I hope she remembers the good times we had.

 

Your post touches something in me .

 

I guess some xOW wonder whether the xMM meant what he said. We wouldn't be human if we didn't. We also wonder how he's getting along with his life and how difficult it is for him, or if it is difficult at all after NC.

 

It was the worst pain I had ever felt in my life of 65 years. It's gone now but the memory is still there.

 

Cat.

[Got it]

Gotit: "you" is generic. Remember I am commenting in the sitch I know about, an remember also I am not his wife. If I was his wife he might not have a tongue left to say anything at all....

 

But I concur with his wife. I hate it when he wouldn't admit the OW was just as bad as him. I also saw him as "protecting" her. He hasn't done that for a long time but he doesn't seem to be blame shifting either. He's had time to see that he can admit he was a total ass and so was she but if he works at it one day even I might re admit him to humanity

 

Promises made a general post not one confined to her situation. I don't know her xMM and nor do you.

 

I will say I feel for Shames wife. He really hadn't any shame at all for what he's done to her and that's so awful for her.

 

You said that "you" wouldn't like to be thrown under the bus and "you" are supposed to be protected. Which is why I ask. Do you mean then OPs in general?

 

Okay, I am confused, so your husband didn't cheat on you? Who cheated on you? MFH, I don't recall your story; this is a pretty large community.

 

And in regards to Shame, I disagree. I believe he has shame but not enough to take action and not at the level you feel he should. I think he feels quite guilty but I also believe that his self preservation, ego, and fear are preventing him from taking further action. But no, he has shame. How do you know he doesn't feel shame? Who are you to judge that?

[Got it]

Wanting more: I fundamentally disagree that he's not entitled to judge. As long as he judges himself equally I have no problem with that. Obviously some can't follow through on judging themselves but some can.

 

Just because I've jaywalked doesn't mean I can't judge my son for doing it. I just have to be self critical too.

 

I guess though it seems quite pointless and quite hypocritical. Why would you judge your son? I can see cautioning him, discussing how you have done similar and the consequences to it, trying to give some advice and wisdom because of past experience. But why do you feel the need to judge? That is such a harsh and unproductive action, in my opinion. What is the end result of it? I don't see how it adds value to you, to your son, or towards a better existence.

 

And if I was your son, and you judge me for something that you yourself are guilty of, it would greatly lessen the impact because it smack of "do as I say not as I do".

[wanting more]

You said that "you" wouldn't like to be thrown under the bus and "you" are supposed to be protected. Which is why I ask. Do you mean then OPs in general?

 

Okay, I am confused, so your husband didn't cheat on you? Who cheated on you? MFH, I don't recall your story; this is a pretty large community.

 

And in regards to Shame, I disagree. I believe he has shame but not enough to take action and not at the level you feel he should. I think he feels quite guilty but I also believe that his self preservation, ego, and fear are preventing him from taking further action. But no, he has shame. How do you know he doesn't feel shame? Who are you to judge that?

 

She hasn't been cheated on. I know BIL cheated on her sister, think a friend and maybe her father. So she's "talked" to them to get their side of the story. But Remember, if youre the OW or the WS, you're trash and an ass and a horrible person for existing.

[Lostinlife4now]

I feel like at this point NC feels like a little bit of both to me.

 

1. A big fat FU - i.e.; We each hurt each other and it's just too painful for multiple parties to talk ever again. And, btw, FU.

 

2. Indifference. I'm moving on and you are no longer a priority.

 

There have been many threads on NC lately. Which does it feel like to you?

 

1 or 2?

 

Hi Promises.....

 

#2 definitely......#2.......AHHHHHHHHHH and it feels GOOD!!!!!!!!!

[bentnotbroken]

She hasn't been cheated on. I know BIL cheated on her sister, think a friend and maybe her father. So she's "talked" to them to get their side of the story. But Remember, if youre the OW or the WS, you're trash and an ass and a horrible person for existing.

 

 

Is that the way you feel about yourself? Because assuming that is the way that all or even most BS feel is off the mark.

[wanting more]

Is that the way you feel about yourself? Because assuming that is the way that all or even most BS feel is off the mark.

 

No. I don't think that about myself I've seen on here that it is also not how most BS look at the OW/OM. It was a comment I made earlier about my xMM BW saying that's what I was and then another poster said thats what OW and WS are