Quite Possibly the Worst MM you have ever heard about....

[Capris]

@hissunshine

 

Its really hard to tell if your MM is the real thing here, yet very refreshing you have decided to put yourself first either way!!

 

My case, yeah its f*** up, as i stated, i apparantley i wasnt in a good psycological condition from day 1. Letting this man into my life, was the biggist mistake ever. We made a deadly combo of troubled personalities. I am serious of him being a sociopath, just waiting till i go to my psyciatrist to give him the facts. To answer your questions, she was diagnosed on the 5th year, the almost 6th year was her illness. He said he wasnt happy in his marriage, he said he wanted to be with me but stays for the kids, all the classics etc etc. At first he even wanted to move in with me. Fast foward to 3rd year, he said he never made any promise to me (although he did), he told me "you need to move on, but please dont leave me".....and all sorts of screwed up mind games. I of course, wanted a life with him, but never asked him to leave her. I was split. I didnt want to be the one who ruined their marriage, ironically i was a part of it of course. Thing is, he was cheating on her from day 1 (and they were dating/married for almost their whole lives), and of course cheating on me too with other women. Was a hard road to get where im standing today for me, to overcome everything that came up from this relationship, but im really on a good way.

 

Im really happy to hear you have a BS detector, i thought i had one too, but again, when i agreed to the A, i wasnt in a good psycological condition, so no clear mind. Thank god im back to a better version of my old self.

 

I hope you manage to keep your distance from your MM, cause he is going to go through hell, specially if he is for real. Your choice to leave is a really really good one and requires clarity and guts, so hats off to that!! He needs time and will need time till he comes to the point of dating again, if the unwanted death occurs. Stay strong cause if his wife passes, he will contact you again and will claim he is ready to move on his life with you, but he wont be. This has nothing to do about him being or not being a liar, its plain facts about widowers and people in grief in general. I suggest you do some research about what goes through a widowers mind and what processes he will go through, just in case. Some women dating widowers actually describe it as if being in an A.

 

Im so sorry about his wife and i wish the cancer will be cured, i really feel bad of mentioning him as a widower, but i see how much you love/loved him and you must be prepared. Cancer is a bitch.

 

About FB, i hate it because of that too! You can easily get into different thought trips. Theres tons of things that that picture could mean. His wife is dying and needs all the love and help she can get. That may include handholding. If all is well and your MM isnt a "bad guy", that could just have been a "white lie", to protect you of pain. But, either way, i find your descision to leave, again, really good. If you two are meant to be together you will, till then, there is no reason of both of you going through this.

 

Note that im trying to be objective, forgive me if i dont manage to keep it that way.

 

 

 

 

I wish the best to all three of you! Take care!!!

[hissunshine]

Capris

 

Thanks...a very good friend of mine (guy friend...married...completely platonic...just sayin'! lol) knows the entire story and has been very supportive of me. His advice is that I won't really know who MM is until W passes. He is probably right which is why I can't stay in this toxic situation any longer. It will be interesting what he says about the picture this week when we meet to talk and end things.

 

Your situation sounds worst than mine though...Your exMM sounds like quite a treat! I think (and hope) that my MM is different but again, I won't know for sure for awhile yet...

 

HS

[whichwayisup]

Capris

 

Thanks...a very good friend of mine (guy friend...married...completely platonic...just sayin'! lol) knows the entire story and has been very supportive of me. His advice is that I won't really know who MM is until W passes. He is probably right which is why I can't stay in this toxic situation any longer. It will be interesting what he says about the picture this week when we meet to talk and end things.

 

Your situation sounds worst than mine though...Your exMM sounds like quite a treat! I think (and hope) that my MM is different but again, I won't know for sure for awhile yet...

 

HS

 

MM is in no position to make any commitments in the future to you. He can't think that far ahead, so it's good that you're stepping away now.

 

As for the facebook, did you really believe him when he said he's never held his wife's hand? The woman he married and had children with? I think you wanted to believe that, but I'm sure your gut deep down must have known that wasn't true. Pictures don't lie and he obviously has shown her affection at other times that weren't caught on film. He may be irked that you lurked his daughters facebook page, though.

 

Anyway, stay strong and stand your ground. Let him know that YOU think he's in NO position to give you any kind of healthy or growing kind of relationship, you know he cannot be there for you on all levels so you need to leave and tend to yourself and your life while he tends to his.

[hissunshine]

But she won't be putting herself first. When she goes to meet MM for their meeting, he will talk her into continuing the affair.

 

She's not looking to end things, she's looking for reassurance . . . especially about that facebook photo. And he will tell her everything she wants to hear about that photo. Rest assured.

 

This affair is not over - not by a long shot.

 

No Alice...he may try and get me to continue the affair but that is NOT going to happen. And honestly, I think he will probably understand why I need to end things and just let me go. I am going to bet he will give some worthless explanation about the picture and do everything he can to reassure me that the last two years were not just a big lie so that I will be right where he needs me to be when he is single and available. But, as we have discussed extensively in this thread already, that has a good chance of not happening.

[snowflakes88]

Why do you even feel you are owed an explanation about the picture? He is married. She is his wife. She is dying. She and his girls are his priority. So he took his family to the park and held his dying wife's hand. So what? Why should he even have to explain that to you, when you knew what you were signing up for? What should he be doing, avoiding touching her altogether for the sake of your feelings?

[snowflakes88]

Because she's a person he's made promises to as well. Promises to a person, entitle that person to an explanation of anything that appears to break that promise.

 

It's really that simple. (and yes, I think the WS also owes the BS explanations for the promises they break to them too)

 

He is a liar, inherently. It's really THAT simple. If you choose to believe that a man low enough to cheat on his dying wife is being honest when he says he never even touches his wife's hand -- you aren't the brightest bulb. Not you personally, obviously... but in general. What does OP envision him doing? Sitting 100 ft. from her deathbed, refusing to hold her hand or comfort her because he made a promise to his sidepiece? I mean, really. His "explanation" should be, she is my wife and she is dying. Period. To even question that blows my mind.

[Summer Breeze]

Oh I agree about an explanation. I just think that all OW who knew he was married have already had it. Before any promises were made they knew the reason if any were broken. It is, "he's married". It's all she needed to know. It's the only reason that's relevant. And it makes any promise worthless before its made. If its "kept" then that's a windfall. But he's already broadcast that he breaks promises so why would any OW ever need any explanation after the fact?

 

If one of the BS that you're in here so oddly championing were to be lied to after their WS promised they hated their OW and would never see them again, would the BS have an expectation that her WS would keep that promise? He's the same man who promised his OW certain things so why wouldn't she have the same expectation of him keeping his promises? Both his OW and W expect he's making promises he intends on keeping. He's the only one who either will or won't keep the promises but I don't see where either his OW or BS wouldn't have an expectation of them being kept.

[awkward]

He's the same man who promised his OW certain things so why wouldn't she have the same expectation of him keeping his promises?

 

He is a liar. The OW knows that. After D-day the BW would know it too. She would hope he would keep his promises but she would KNOW that he is a liar. Right now only the OW has that information.

[Summer Breeze]

He is a liar. The OW knows that. After D-day the BW would know it too. She would hope he would keep his promises but she would KNOW that he is a liar. Right now only the OW has that information.

 

You only quoted part of what I wrote. As I clearly explained my scenario was after the BS was aware and promises of reconciliation were made. I'd appreciate you responding to the post as a whole if you're going to respond at all.

[hissunshine]

Look...I am sure he touches her when he cares for her...and he will hold her hand while she takes her last breath but that's not what was so upsetting about the picture. The picture shows a different..well picture...of his marriage then what he has been telling me all along. It's funny also how we have actually have had conversations about him holding W's hand before! He made it very clear...but I know...I am just his sidepiece who does not have any rights...

 

On another note, I went for coffee with new guy this afternoon and low and behold, who texts me on my way home like he had a freakin' GPS tracker on my vehicle????

[awkward]

You only quoted part of what I wrote. As I clearly explained my scenario was after the BS was aware and promises of reconciliation were made. I'd appreciate you responding to the post as a whole if you're going to respond at all.

 

Sorry Summer I felt like I was responding to the totality of the post. I guess I wasn't clear but what I meant was that after D-day the BS would be armed with the information that her WS is in fact a liar so while she would hope he would keep his promises, there is a chance that he would not.

[stevie_23]

Hmm, I’m sorry about this. The holding hands things. There are just SO many reasons and variables here. This is why checking up on our exes is really counter productive to anything at all, because we only get a fraction of the truth and we read so much into everything, it ends up hurting us more than we already are to begin with.

 

Your ex may have told you he didn’t hold hands with his wife because he didn’t want to talk about that, or he didn’t want to make things uncomfortable for you, or if he really was completely honest and DIDN’T hold hands with his wife, maybe that’s changed a bit now because of their situation.

 

In a weird way, maybe he feels more free to love her more like he used to (though not the same way he loved you. I don’t think he’s “in love” with her anymore at all and hasn’t been for a long time) because their time left is short. In a really BAD analogue, when someone who is desperately unhappy with their life decides to kill themselves, they often feel happier and relieved and can actually enjoy life again to an extent. So…you know what I mean?

 

Also, never underestimate a person’s ability to be completely clueless in regard to how their actions appear. To be really DUMB about that. My ex, when he was still very much with me and in love with me, before everything suddenly changed, did an “intimate” video for me, and I only noticed NOW (despite the fact the video is almost 2 months old and I watched it MANY times) that he’s naked but has his wedding ring on. He told me he hardly ever wore it, but did sometimes. The time he did that video was about 8pm in the evening, he’d had a shower and had nothing on, and was going to bed. His wife wouldn’t be getting home from work until midnight, about 3 hours after he’d go to bed. So I was like…WHY would he wear a wedding ring he apparently hardly ever wears when his wife’s not even home, when he’d been in the shower and when he’d be going to bed soon? I assume now that he wore it more than he let on (which I would’ve been fine with by the way) and didn’t even notice he had it on while he was doing…THAT…on camera to me. I can’t believe I didn’t see it before though. How many other things was I blind to, you know!?

 

Anyway, they don’t do these things to hurt you. They don’t even mean to lie directly to you. They do love you still even despite these things. They just don’t THINK all the time. Or at least not like we do.

 

Anyway…yes, I can understand (or try to) what MIGHT be going on with this situation…my ex’s situation was difficult also, though nowhere near as bad as your ex’s.

 

My ex had to get married 6 months ago (he didn’t want to. She’d asked him a year before but he turned her down) because he got really sick and needed $20,000 worth of medical treatment he couldn’t afford without utlising her employer benefit medical insurance. So he had to marry her. He now had more financial stability (he didn’t have a job really before due to the economy and a few failed ventures. Actually, 4 years earlier he’d left his own successful landscaping company to save his wife’s company which was going downhill. He went well initially, managing it, but it went under anyway early last year. He also felt an obligation to allow her and this company to support her 3 adult children who were in college, with expensive tuition. In my opinion, he went from being financially stable and successful himself to being tied to his now-wife and any money he does get goes straight to her and her kids, who he doesn’t even like) and health wise, he has someone there to take care of him as he gets older (he’s 61 now) and if his health goes bad again (which it probably will at some stage in the next 2-5 years).

 

Before he got sick and married her, he planned to move out of that house he couldn’t stand living in, get a proper job to support himself and eventually work towards visiting me where I live, and then we’d see what we’d do in terms of our long term future together. But after he got sick, all that was kind of wrecked. So he’s stuck there. I understood. Still stayed with him. Still felt like his priority, except of course if it all came down to it, I couldn’t be because at the end of the day, for his survival, he needs to maintain his relationship with his wife, such that it is.

 

I’m not even sure what I’m even talking about anymore! Lol

 

Oh yes, that’s right. I understand difficult situations that can easily appear as if the ex doesn’t care for you and never did, but maybe it’s not that simple (maybe).

[whichwayisup]

Look...I am sure he touches her when he cares for her...and he will hold her hand while she takes her last breath but that's not what was so upsetting about the picture. The picture shows a different..well picture...of his marriage then what he has been telling me all along. It's funny also how we have actually have had conversations about him holding W's hand before! He made it very clear...but I know...I am just his sidepiece who does not have any rights...

 

On another note, I went for coffee with new guy this afternoon and low and behold, who texts me on my way home like he had a freakin' GPS tracker on my vehicle????

 

Sun, it's obvious he lied to you about hand holding and intimacy in his marriage. Many WS's exaggerate and omit truths to suit them in the best possible light. Also, he was happy in his marriage, then he met you. The thing is, to keep the A going, he couldn't change hs behaviour at home and be a prick to his wife. He isn't and didn't stop hand holding or having intimate time with his wife..Whether or not you can accept this or believe it, is up to you. He LIED. MM lie. Why would he tell you the 'truth' and details so to speak? especially if he knew it would hurt you and prevent you from totally being with him, as well as he isn't going to want to deal with your hurt, jealously etc, so of course he told you that stuff about not handholding etc..

 

Hmm, hope you didn't text him back!!

[Summer Breeze]

Sorry Summer I felt like I was responding to the totality of the post. I guess I wasn't clear but what I meant was that after D-day the BS would be armed with the information that her WS is in fact a liar so while she would hope he would keep his promises, there is a chance that he would not.

 

No problem Awkward. That's exactly what I was getting at. There's an expectation that if someone promises you something they keep the promise. We all know that's not the case with many promises from friends, family, lovers, spouses but there is still the expectation. All the talk that the MM is a liar doesn't lessen the expectation of promises to be kept. Whether his OW/OM is overly hopeful, the WS is a master manipulator, or he's telling the truth, there is an expectation that promises will be kept. Sadly many in everyday life are let down by that expectation, it's not only in As.

[woinlove]

The stories here about the hand holding and the wedding ring, remind me of my own experience. The only lie I know for sure that xMM told me was about his interactions with his BW and I only know that because I talked to her, got the truth, and then xMM admitted it.

 

My advice is not to ignore the fact that you are dealing with a man who is capable of deceiving his wife and family in an ongoing and important way. There really is no way of telling if what he says about his interactions with his wife are true unless you have independent confirmation, whether through a picture, video or, in my case, talking to the BW. It is best if it doesn't matter to you whether he is telling the truth about him and his wife. Because if it does matter to you, and since you do know he is capable of such deception, how are you going to know? I do think people can change, but it take time and real effort. Many don't change.

[stevie_23]

That’s right. As much as you may feel things are different with you and him, and that he is in love with you so wouldn’t treat you the same as his wife (eg, wouldn’t deceive or lie to you), ultimately he is capable of living a lie, deceiving someone he cares about and is choosing to still be with, so why is it such a stretch to think he could lie easily to you too? EASIER in fact because he sees you less.

[CALOVELY]

He is a liar, inherently. It's really THAT simple. If you choose to believe that a man low enough to cheat on his dying wife is being honest when he says he never even touches his wife's hand -- you aren't the brightest bulb. Not you personally, obviously... but in general. What does OP envision him doing? Sitting 100 ft. from her deathbed, refusing to hold her hand or comfort her because he made a promise to his sidepiece? I mean, really. His "explanation" should be, she is my wife and she is dying. Period. To even question that blows my mind.

 

My mind was blown that that's what OP was hoping he was doing.

[ThatJustHappened]

He is a liar. The OW knows that. After D-day the BW would know it too. She would hope he would keep his promises but she would KNOW that he is a liar. Right now only the OW has that information.

 

Are you honestly suggesting that someone tell a dying woman that her husband is cheating on her? Are you honestly saying that their children should have to lose faith in their father right before they lose their mother?

 

Am I the only one who thinks this man should be cut more slack than this? His wife, the mother of his children, is DYING. He's grieving. Yes, he is not to be trusted in a relationship, but really..there are a few cases where I think cheating is understandable. He probably has to be the entire support system at home..cheating is a way for him to escape. People in his situation should be allowed to compartmentalize. It sucks that he ended up hurting the OW, but that's why you don't date married men. Most OWs end up getting hurt.

 

I think the OW should just walk away. She shouldn't make demands of him, she shouldn't get jealous, she shouldn't contact him. She should just walk away before she gets hurt even more. But PLEASE don't get revenge on him by telling his dying wife that he cheated and ripping his family apart. They don't have very much time left together..let her last few months be as good as they possibly can..and their kids too.

 

OP PLEASE leave this man and his family alone.

[SidLyon]

Are you honestly suggesting that someone tell a dying woman that her husband is cheating on her? Are you honestly saying that their children should have to lose faith in their father right before they lose their mother?

 

Am I the only one who thinks this man should be cut more slack than this? His wife, the mother of his children, is DYING. He's grieving. Yes, he is not to be trusted in a relationship, but really..there are a few cases where I think cheating is understandable. He probably has to be the entire support system at home..cheating is a way for him to escape. People in his situation should be allowed to compartmentalize. It sucks that he ended up hurting the OW, but that's why you don't date married men. Most OWs end up getting hurt.

 

I think the OW should just walk away. She shouldn't make demands of him, she shouldn't get jealous, she shouldn't contact him. She should just walk away before she gets hurt even more. But PLEASE don't get revenge on him by telling his dying wife that he cheated and ripping his family apart. They don't have very much time left together..let her last few months be as good as they possibly can..and their kids too.

 

OP PLEASE leave this man and his family alone.

 

I'm usually one that suggests honesty in telling a BW of her WH's infidelity. However in cases when the BW is about to die I would baulk at suggesting she be told.

 

However I definitely disagree that this is the one instance when the MM should be given more slack or that infidelity is more understandable when his BW is dying. In my view it is the BW who should be given the most slack and understanding, even by the OW. To me it is one of the lowest forms of infidelity and those who engage in it are behaving despicably.

[ThatJustHappened]

I'm usually one that suggests honesty in telling a BW of her WH's infidelity. However in cases when the BW is about to die I would baulk at suggesting she be told.

 

However I definitely disagree that this is the one instance when the MM should be given more slack or that infidelity is more understandable when his BW is dying. In my view it is the BW who should be given the most slack and understanding, even by the OW. To me it is one of the lowest forms of infidelity and those who engage in it are behaving despicably.

 

Well of course the BW should be cut the most slack! I never said she shouldn't. But hopefully she'll never have to know ANY of this, and hopefully neither will their children.

 

The husband is dealing with the slow and painful death of his wife, and he's trying to help his children deal with the death of their mother. He needs an escape. It sounds to me like he is the ONLY emotional support system ANY of them have and that is exhausting..and he probably has to care for her physically to some degree. I know how devastatingly difficult this is from firsthand experience.

 

I abhor infidelity. I have NEVER supported it before. But I understand watching someone die and needing an escape. I wish he'd chosen a better one that wouldn't hurt anyone but I cannot hate him for this.

[CALOVELY]

Well of course the BW should be cut the most slack! I never said she shouldn't. But hopefully she'll never have to know ANY of this, and hopefully neither will their children.

 

The husband is dealing with the slow and painful death of his wife, and he's trying to help his children deal with the death of their mother. He needs an escape. It sounds to me like he is the ONLY emotional support system ANY of them have and that is exhausting..and he probably has to care for her physically to some degree. I know how devastatingly difficult this is from firsthand experience.

 

I abhor infidelity. I have NEVER supported it before. But I understand watching someone die and needing an escape. I wish he'd chosen a better one that wouldn't hurt anyone but I cannot hate him for this.

 

He was cheating on his wife long before she was dying. This man deserves no slack whatsoever.

[bittersweet memories]

so why wouldn't she have the same expectation of him keeping his promises? .

 

 

Because "QUITE POSIBLY HE'S THE WORST MM YOU HAVE EVER HEARD ABOUT"!!!! Thats why!!! He doesn't care!!He's a liar!!...Come on girl!! Let's not forget He lacks thoughtlessness towards you in the past:

 

-The first year we were together, he went on many family vacations where he would completely shut me out of his life - no communication as he wanted to spend quality time with his girls

 

-My birthday was ignored in the first year as he was in NYC with W

So why wouldn't he lie... lieing is expected!!

 

- Christmas that first year was also ignored and he disappeared again

 

- was ignored at Christmas this year...yet again,

 

so why would lying about holding hands even surprise you? After all he can "QUITE POSIBLY HE'S THE WORST MM YOU HAVE EVER HEARD ABOUT"!!

Edited January 17, 2013 by bittersweet memories

[hissunshine]

Well of course the BW should be cut the most slack! I never said she shouldn't. But hopefully she'll never have to know ANY of this, and hopefully neither will their children.

 

The husband is dealing with the slow and painful death of his wife, and he's trying to help his children deal with the death of their mother. He needs an escape. It sounds to me like he is the ONLY emotional support system ANY of them have and that is exhausting..and he probably has to care for her physically to some degree. I know how devastatingly difficult this is from firsthand experience.

 

I abhor infidelity. I have NEVER supported it before. But I understand watching someone die and needing an escape. I wish he'd chosen a better one that wouldn't hurt anyone but I cannot hate him for this.

 

For the record, I have never thought of telling W about this....I think this was an idea that was brought up on LS. There is no worry about me doing that....

 

LJH, You are 100% right, he is the ONLY emotional support system ANY of them have, including W's family and up until this week, I was his only support system....

[woinlove]

 

LJH, You are 100% right, he is the ONLY emotional support system ANY of them have, including W's family and up until this week, I was his only support system....

 

That is so sad. What married people going through a terrible, painful time need is the love and loyalty of each other, as well as family and friends for support. Additional romantic attachments, while capable of temporarily filling some needs, also bring a complexity of emotions which add more stress and often additional pains. Sometimes when the romantic part ends, for whatever reason, one loses what might have been an enduring friendship, had it not been complicated by the sexual and/or romantic part.

 

It is sad that someone has to face death with no friends or family around for support and only an unfaithful husband, and that the husband also has no other family or friends around.

 

Still, that is that family's terrible burden to carry, and I think it is good that you have removed yourself from the situation and perhaps the family might turn to a counsellor, minister or someone else if there are no friends or family to turn to. Also, one shouldn't underestimate the strength that a dying person can show toward her family. I've witnessed that myself. While there is still life and a functioning mind, one may still give compassion, love, and loyalty to one's family and help to ease their pain a bit.

 

Stay strong and stay NC, as it will help you heal.