Having serious doubts about ending my M...

[loredo21]

ugh! I'm so confused!

Can I get some advice? Genuine advice. I don't need judgement or condescension. I already know I've screwed everything up.

After D-day, I went on a trip to clear my head. I made a list of everything I wanted out of life. Nowhere on the list did it say I wanted to be married. I used to think that was all I wanted, but time and life has gotten in the way of my dream. H and I had been having issues for 3 years when I decided to be the biggest idiot alive and have an A on the ONE person that has been there for me through thick and thin for a decade. He's seen me in serious medical condition and help my freakin bed pan for me. He's done more than enough financially. And he is honestly the best daddy in the world! I am still trying to figure out why/how could I do this to him. And not sure I will ever forgive myself. But I am working on everything with the help of therapy and other holistic approaches.

Since D-day H and I have been separated but living in the same house. He made a list of things I would HAVE to abide by if we were to ever stay married. i.e. curfew, religion, friend choices, work choices. basically anything that makes me the independent person that I am would be stripped away from me. But I know that's my fault. He let me be me. But to a fault. I ruined everything. Now I know most of what's on that list I could never do. (We are complete opposites). I know I should. I should want to give up everything, but I can't.

Being here on this board and listening to stories of family and friends I've been terrified to ever have to start over again. Men just all seem the same. pigs. (no offense guys I'm one too)...but this board speaks volumes to me. (on women too)...

I would be starting my life totally over from scratch. And as much as I want to do that, I am afraid I am still living in a fantasy world. I want to see things clearly, and grow up. Is this real life? Is this where I am supposed to be? I DO NOT want to settle. I want to travel. And be a free-spirit again. None of which I can do under his rules. But we were sublimely happy for years. I just dont know how to get that feeling back....is it gone forever?

Maybe I'm just having an off week.

 

(We've done MC and I do IC)

Edited January 12, 2013 by loredo21

[TaraMaiden]

What does your MC think of that list?

because even in a happy marriage, there are things I wouldn't go for - so how can your H honestly believe that in an UNhappy marriage, such conditions would work - or are even acceptable?

 

See, here's the thing:

Blame is entirely proportional.

Responsibility for one's half of the marriage is completely equilateral.

 

You may be held to 'blame' for your affair - but what was 'lacking' in your marriage to make you both abdicate your respective responsibility for maintaining it?

 

What list would you give HIM to abide by?

[loredo21]

What does your MC think of that list?

because even in a happy marriage, there are things I wouldn't go for - so how can your H honestly believe that in an UNhappy marriage, such conditions would work - or are even acceptable?

 

See, here's the thing:

Blame is entirely proportional.

Responsibility for one's half of the marriage is completely equilateral.

 

You may be held to 'blame' for your affair - but what was 'lacking' in your marriage to make you both abdicate your respective responsibility for maintaining it?

 

What list would you give HIM to abide by?

 

That's the thing. I would NEVER give him a list. ever. I think he should live his life the way that makes him happy and I should be able to do the same. I just wish we could be happy together again. I have no jealousy/trust issues even though I now know what can happen. He marches to the beat of his own drum and I love him for that. I wouldn't want him to change.

I think what was lacking was the affection. That was my biggie. We turned into the cliche roommates.

[Alice2012]

He made a list of things I would HAVE to abide by if we were to ever stay married. i.e. curfew, religion, friend choices, work choices. basically anything that makes me the independent person that I am would be stripped away from me.

 

It sounds like you want to live like a teenager and he wants a wife.

 

For instance, if a husband is forced to give his wife an ultimatum about a "curfew" and you believe that will cramp your style, then maybe you should go ahead and file for divorce.

 

Same thing with the friends. If your friends are not the type of people that are good for the marriage and he wants them gone, but again, you think that will cramp your style . . . then you should be single.

[loredo21]

You want advice? Ok.

I try not to be judgemental so I hope you don't take it as such. I do tend to be blunt, but know I mean all of this sincerely.

 

Why the HELL would you want to stay married to him? I'd never live in a prison of rules like that, particularly if I felt they stripped me of everything that made me me. Nope, sorry bye bye. Why should WANT to give up everything that makes you you? Because you made a mistake? Because you didn't realize that being married to him was not what you wanted before you got involved with someone else? For that you need to give up the rest of your life?

 

Look around here. Go visit the infidelity board. Read there for a little bit. I know some people don't like it pointed out that they might be bitter, many aren't.. but there are a lot that are, and in many cases, I think RIGHTLY so, but they don't get over it. They have "reconciled" in their eyes, and yet some talk about how they still do things because of what their WS did 3, 5, 12, or even longer years ago. They should have split and each created a new life where all parties had the opportunity to be truly happy and not the shell that they built from the remains of what once was. Is that what you want the rest of your life to be? Is that what you want the rest of HIS life to be?

 

There are some great posters here that HAVE successfully reconciled. I'm not sure how, but somehow they did. They seem to have built a new life with their spouse and moved forward but the one key piece is that it seems as if in THOSE rare circumstances BOTH sides really wanted it. They WANTED to do anything to make it work. You said straight up that you don't want to. If you had a burning desire to do so, I'd say you have a shot, doesn't sound like you do.

 

I think you are considering staying with him out of a sense duty and obligation due to what you may have once had and not wishes that you have any longer. Just because he stood by you through everything doesn't mean that staying together NOW is the right thing to do. Do you think he wants to be married to someone who is ONLY with him because of that?

 

And as far as getting it back, I don't think you can. That free and easy everything that once was is gone with that person because the trust is broken and it never really gets rebuilt.

You said you were sublimely happy for years before.. but you also said you'd been having issues for 3 years BEFORE it happened. So how many years were you actually happy, and have you kept in mind that the person that made us happy at 16, 20, 30 or 40 aren't necessarily always the same person. People grow and they either grow together or apart.

 

I wish you lots of luck and peace in your choices and decisions.

 

I actually agree with everything you say. It's how I had been looking at our situation up until the last week. we've been together for 10, so we had a good 7 year run. but i was also 20 when i met him, and he is a lot older. He is very set in his ways, and if I thought he was stubborn before, since the A...whoo. there is NO budging him. The great thing about our R is that we communicate about everything. I won't be afraid to talk to him about any of this.

Another thing, we are supposed to be dissolutionment months ago, but he keeps dragging his feet. And has recently started calling me pet names again. And buying me things that he know would mean something to me. I wonder if he is trying to hang on to me, and if the "list" is changeable or not now.

[Alice2012]

i was also 20 when i met him, and he is a lot older.

 

How much older?

[Million.to.1]

You say you made a mistake with the A - but can't abide by your H conditions for recon, so you want to be a free spirit... ie, not stay in the marriage.

 

Is this right?

 

I don't understand where the doubt is coming from. It seems pretty clear what you want, you are just too scared to have to start from scratch, which is understandable, as it's a big change.

 

But nowhere in your post did you say you that you loved your husband...instead just stating what he did for you and how good of a father he is.

 

Sacrifice is coming to you regardless of which you choose. I think, in fairness to your husband, you should end the marriage, as it's clear you don't want to be in it, but are just afraid of the implications of that life-change.

[loredo21]

It sounds like you want to live like a teenager and he wants a wife.

 

For instance, if a husband is forced to give his wife an ultimatum about a "curfew" and you believe that will cramp your style, then maybe you should go ahead and file for divorce.

 

Same thing with the friends. If your friends are not the type of people that are good for the marriage and he wants them gone, but again, you think that will cramp your style . . . then you should be single.

 

I agree with you to a point. (though I don't care for the "cramping of style" phrase.) that's not it. I don't want to date. I do want to be "free" but not in that way. I think he does make a lot of good points in his "list". And some of them, like friends, I NEED to make changes on. But shouldn't I be able to do that on my own terms? It feels like he is trying to father me. And I am NOT trying to be a teenager. trust me. yuck. But I do have a bucket list a mile long that I don't think I would be able to attend to.

And I get it. I screwed up. I know BW give WS ultimatums all the time after A. He's doing the same, so it's understandable.

[loredo21]

How much older?

 

15 years....

[loredo21]

You say you made a mistake with the A - but can't abide by your H conditions for recon, so you want to be a free spirit... ie, not stay in the marriage.

 

Is this right?

 

I don't understand where the doubt is coming from. It seems pretty clear what you want, you are just too scared to have to start from scratch, which is understandable, as it's a big change.

 

But nowhere in your post did you say you that you loved your husband...instead just stating what he did for you and how good of a father he is.

 

Sacrifice is coming to you regardless of which you choose. I think, in fairness to your husband, you should end the marriage, as it's clear you don't want to be in it, but are just afraid of the implications of that life-change.

 

I DO love my husband but I am definitely not in love with him anymore. this is true. and cliche i know.

[Alice2012]

I agree with you to a point. (though I don't care for the "cramping of style" phrase.) that's not it. I don't want to date. I do want to be "free" but not in that way. I think he does make a lot of good points in his "list". And some of them, like friends, I NEED to make changes on. But shouldn't I be able to do that on my own terms? It feels like he is trying to father me. And I am NOT trying to be a teenager. trust me. yuck. But I do have a bucket list a mile long that I don't think I would be able to attend to.

And I get it. I screwed up. I know BW give WS ultimatums all the time after A. He's doing the same, so it's understandable.

 

I know you know it's understandable and you know you need to bend over backwards to make him feel secure . . . but I don't think you FEEL it.

 

You can't force that.

You have to truly want to make sacrifices.

 

If you're not feeling it, then you should set him free.

[woinlove]

I agree with you to a point. (though I don't care for the "cramping of style" phrase.) that's not it. I don't want to date. I do want to be "free" but not in that way. I think he does make a lot of good points in his "list". And some of them, like friends, I NEED to make changes on. But shouldn't I be able to do that on my own terms? It feels like he is trying to father me. And I am NOT trying to be a teenager. trust me. yuck. But I do have a bucket list a mile long that I don't think I would be able to attend to.

And I get it. I screwed up. I know BW give WS ultimatums all the time after A. He's doing the same, so it's understandable.

 

A good marriage relies on trust, lots of trust. Your H's trust of you is probably gone. It can be rebuilt if you show over time you are trustworthy. But it takes time.

 

I'm not really hearing anything that suggests you want to stay married. Maybe you just aren't writing those things. But two weeks ago you said you hadn't loved your H for a while, even before your A, and your M was ending. Not clear anything has changed.

[TaraMaiden]

15 years....

 

I hate to say it, but he's 'turned into a dad'.

 

And as time goes on, you won't even be his wife any more.

You'll become his carer.

 

Don't let the guilt of that matter mould and become your future....

[loredo21]

First, ease up a little bit and don't make any rash decisions!

 

There are a lot of 'enablers' on this board, just as there are a lot 'hardasses' who probably gave your H this list idea on some other board.

 

You're feeling conflicted:

 

You're remorseful but you're also yearning for independence.

 

If your H had decided to divorce you on the spot, you'd probably realize what you had to lose and would be working your ass off to reconcile. Give him some credit for being betrayed and not shunning you.

 

But since he's given you this list of demands, he's pushing you away when he should be trying to understand more about why you cheated. He wants you to know he won't be taken for granted or be a doormat, that's why he's doing that.

 

First, would he agree that you've been having problems for the past 3 years? You may be surprised to find you have very different perspectives on what "problems" are.

 

Second, how old are you? Mid-thirties? It kind of sounds like you are having a pre-MLC and questioning everything. You don't sound grounded, and I'd be careful if you are entertaining the ideas of travel, getting your own pad, etc. How are you going travel willy-nilly when you have children?

 

Take a deep breath.

 

Let us know some more...

 

Oh yes, he would agree 100%. That's why we've been in MC. But I think he would have been happy going along with the marriage as it was before A. We talk about the affair in detail. We communicate all of our feelings. He knew I wasn't happy. We've had a tough road that we didn't expect.

And I am DEFINITELY having a pre-mid life crisis. Dammit. You are so right!

I have one child and I want to travel with her. I want her to see and know the world. And if I do travel alone, like I said, he is the BEST daddy! She is in the greatest hands with him. But no it wouldn't be like a jump in my car for a spontaneous road trip example of traveling. (though I did that after Dday).

[loredo21]

Okay, I just saw your age.

 

It kind of sounds like you are questioning everything because you are in a committed relationship and you are young.

 

Yes, what's his age?

 

No I'm not 15. haha. he is 15 years older. I am 30.

[loredo21]

A good marriage relies on trust, lots of trust. Your H's trust of you is probably gone. It can be rebuilt if you show over time you are trustworthy. But it takes time.

 

I'm not really hearing anything that suggests you want to stay married. Maybe you just aren't writing those things. But two weeks ago you said you hadn't loved your H for a while, even before your A, and your M was ending. Not clear anything has changed.

 

That's why I wonder if just after reading all the posts here has made me question a little of what I want to do. I'm confused. But yes everything I said in my 1st post was true. Our marriage IS ending (if I don't agree to the list) and I wasn't happy before the affair. He would have been content with sailing along had I not had A. But I wasn't. That's why i've been told i had an "exit affair".

[Alice2012]

he is 15 years older. I am 30.

 

30/45 is not "a lot" older.

From the way you spoke, I thought you were like 25 and he was 45.

[Million.to.1]

I know you "DO love him"- of course.

 

But the marriage is over. Follow your dreams. There was a sense of lightness and hope when you speak of traveling with your child. Do it.

[loredo21]

Well I'm probably not the best person to answer this but I'll give my thoughts anyway:rolleyes:

 

I think a lot of people end their marriages prematurely (I know some hang on to their marriage way longer than the should too, so I'm not saying everyone) as they are not able to seperate the problems in the marriage from their personal problems. They look at their spouse and blame them for everything they are not happy within their lives and in themselves. They get this fantasy in their head of the happy carefree life they would have if only they could rid themselves of their pesky spouse. Then they become single and soon find out that being single is not the bed of roses they thought it was going to be. We cannot have everything, we cannot have the best of both worlds and none of the bad.

 

Being married means having to consider another persons feelings and opinions when you are making decisions about the present and the future. That sucks sometimes. However being single means being alone, sometimes when you really don't want to be alone and sometimes when you really need a person there who loves you truly and deeply, warts and all. In life we have to make compromises and it's not only marriage that requires that, it's everything. Children, jobs, sick relatives, money..lots of things can require that we put our desires and dreams on the back burner. You say your husband is the best daddy so I'm guessing you have children. Even if you ditch your husband are you not still going to be responsible for your children and what is best for them. If you're going to be a single parent then your kids are serioulsy going to curb your freedom. Maybe you will have even less freedome than you do now because you're husband won't always be available when you live apart and you are dealing with the kids by yourself.

 

It sounds like your husband gave you all the room in the world to be yourself and explore your interests. Then you shattered his world and his trust and you don't want to go through the hard work to help him trust you again. He has been there for you for years, taking care of you when you were sick, taking care of you financially and taking care of the kids, however you don't see him as being worth making any sacrafices. You think that by tossing him you will have this wonderful carefree single life that entails travel and tons of freedom. If you divorce then I hope your life turns out that way, but real life has a tendancy to be a lot different then how we pictured it in our heads.

 

This is all so true.

I just feel like it is beyond repair. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and kind words. even the tough words. it's what i need to hear.

And at the end of the day I WANT HIM TO BE HAPPY! He deserves so much more out of life.

[Alice2012]

That's why i've been told i had an "exit affair".

 

Your story has "exit affair" written all over it.

 

But at least you didn't divorce and he doesn't know about the affair. Many people have exit affairs and the spouse never knows - and they are left with a lot of unanswered questions.

[woinlove]

That's why I wonder if just after reading all the posts here has made me question a little of what I want to do. I'm confused. But yes everything I said in my 1st post was true. Our marriage IS ending (if I don't agree to the list) and I wasn't happy before the affair. He would have been content with sailing along had I not had A. But I wasn't. That's why i've been told i had an "exit affair".

 

You say your M went downhill after having a child and some illnesses. Those would stress many M, but you went to counselling and tried to improve things, and ultimately it just ended up with you in an A. Now you have all the things you two didn't successfully deal with before, plus the aftermath of an A, which on its own would be a big deal to deal with. From your posts, I'm just not seeing anything that would indicate you want to put in the work that would be needed. In that case, I think it is better to end the M. I know nothing about your H, but even if he were willing to put in the work too, I don't see it working with you, from what you are posting. If he's not willing, then even more so.

[loredo21]

How far ahead are you thinking?

 

Are you willing to have your child(ren) only half-time?

 

Are you employed? How will the loss of income affect your life?

 

Are you willing to lose access to H's family and your mutual friends?

 

Are you ready to lose your H forever? He may not choose to be your friend at all if you leave him in a one-sided fashion.

 

Any MC would tell him to lose the list.

 

The problem is, he may know you had an affair or sensed something was wrong. He's reacting out of fear. He does not want to lose you but he's going about it the wrong way. Just sayin'.

 

Oh we are the best of friends. and always will be. (not because we have a child together, it's a genuine connection) We tell people as crummy as it is that our marriage didn't work out, we couldn't picture going through this process with anyone else. It is really a unique relationship. I still go to his family functions and he still goes to mine. And we always will. We've agreed if future partners think our R is "weird" and try to get us not to be in one another's lives, that they aren't the right person for us. I know when it actually happens things could go a lot differently. But for now we are making our own rules on what's "normal" for us.

We are in total agreement on everything. Custody. Money. Homes. That's why we are disolutioning instead of divorce. Also the condo I am (supposed to be) getting is right down the street from our current house. it's strange but it works for us.

[TaraMaiden]

Why is he not worth it to you?

 

Because she doesn't want to be married to a friend.

Or a father.

her sexually intimate feelings for him are no longer there.

 

That feeling is harder to revive than a frozen mammoth.

[loredo21]

I don't think you should be told what kind of an affair you had. Only you know if your affair was an exit affair or not.

 

Look I'm not trying to talk to you into staying in an unhappy marriage or staying with someone you don't love, however I see a lot of people here saying "oh well, don't settle! don't stay married to someone who is making demands! and oh my God! he's fifteen years older than you? you're going to end up being his caregiver!" as if they are all in relationships where they don't sometimes have to settle and sometimes make compromises and sacrafices when maybe they would rather not. LOL

 

I'm not the marriage police. Hell I'm not even married, but I have had several serious longterm relationship, all 8 yrs or longer and I can tell you that every longterm relationship has it's pitfalls and challenges. There is no man out there who is going to be perfect and no serious relationship that is not require that you give something of you to it. By what you say I see a lot of value in your marriage. You have mentioned more than once that you can talk to him about anything and you two and he is great at communication. That right there is very important to any successful relationship. You won't know how valuable that it until you don't have that anymore. He has loyally stuck by you through thick and thin and that is yet another precious gem that you won't fully appreciate until it is gone. And until recently he accepted who completely and gave you all the freedom you wanted. Yes you're husband is making demands right now. You have been rather vague about what those demands are so I don't know if he is being unreasonable or not.

 

In any case it doesn't sound like he was unreasonable partner before the affair so he likely hasn't turned into some monster control freak now. This is temporary. He wants you to be able to trust you again and you can help him with that by meeting some of his requests. Why not give him the chance to be able to trust the person he chose to have a child with and spend his life with. Don't you see him as deserving of that? Why is he not worth it to you?

 

IT might be. I have a lot to think about. I appreciate you thoughts. They're great!

[loredo21]

When I read the Dad comment, I interpreted that as he was focusing too much on the children, i.e. being a Father before a Husband and thus neglecting his wife.

 

It seems you mean he was becoming a Dad because of his list of demands. Okay, my misunderstanding. I agree.. his list of demands is whacked. Try to get him to draw up a list of wants and needs instead.

 

Look, I'm trying to balance out the perspective because for the most part she is getting one-sided advice.

 

If her H was on here, we'd probably be getting another perspective as well.

 

Loredo, if you really don't want to be in the marriage anymore, you probably won't have the motivation to stay. The wind will come out of your sails.

 

All I'm saying is consider the consequences. Divorce does not always equal freedom and the grass is not always greener on the other side.

 

I agree with that. I try not to think about the grass is greener phrase. I think because it is so TRUE, it scares the crap out of me.

Thank you