Consolidated discussion - "Leagues"

[KungFuJoe]

Necris and Sun Devil...if I might ask...how were your childhoods? Pre-teen and early teen years specifically? Don't have to answer if it's too personal.

[Sun Devil]

My preteen and teen years were good. I had good friends and my parents were very supportive. During that time, I did not interact with girls that much. Last year was when I started to be confident around women.

[Necris]

Necris and Sun Devil...if I might ask...how were your childhoods? Pre-teen and early teen years specifically? Don't have to answer if it's too personal.

 

I liked my childhood, my parents were always good to me though they always stressed the importance of success whether it be school, sports, etc. Not to brag but I was also very intelligent, I was the genius kid. Unfortunately the early teen years isn't something I would want to relive. I never really had any friends except my little brother, and I often found myself a target for bullies, hell I even had girls join in on the bullying and constant ridicule as well. I couldn't even trust friends, as they would eventually turn against me as well. Why I was such a target? Guess I was just different, and couldn't fit in with everyone else. People seemed to naturally hate me so they would always try to attack me in some way and the worse kind of bullies were the charismatic ones as they'll get everyone you know to go against you.

[KungFuJoe]

I liked my childhood, my parents were always good to me though they always stressed the importance of success whether it be school, sports, etc. Not to brag but I was also very intelligent, I was the genius kid. Unfortunately the early teen years isn't something I would want to relive. I never really had any friends except my little brother, and I often found myself a target for bullies, hell I even had girls join in on the bullying and constant ridicule as well. I couldn't even trust friends, as they would eventually turn against me as well. Why I was such a target? Guess I was just different, and couldn't fit in with everyone else. People seemed to naturally hate me so they would always try to attack me in some way and the worse kind of bullies were the charismatic ones as they'll get everyone you know to go against you.

 

I can relate to that. I was also very smart as a kid (skipped two grades for math and reading, was in GATE, me and this girl were the smartest kids in our school, etc). I had good friends though. But, I had an abusive mother and my father wasn't around (not any fault of his, my mom kept me away). I never felt like I "fit in". I always felt different. I've had women tell me I was different. My wife tells me I'm different and a little crazy. When I was younger, I just wanted to fit in. As I got older I learned to embrace my "different-ness".

 

I dunno...I'm just trying to figure out what makes the people of LS tick. I still think that, with all the people out there, there should be someone for everyone. I had friends growing up that...my god...I thought they would be single forever...and one by one they got married, have kids, etc, etc. But they had "normal" parents and a normal childhood (from what I knew).

 

I still think a lot of us here are "messed up" in one way or another. We are different and I think that can throw women off. I actually think being very intelligent is a detriment to dating. You're naturally inquisitive and introspective and just plain over think things causing you to act unnaturally, in a rash way, or just plain do stupid things whereas other people just prance along, ignorant to what is going on around them, not really caring, and stuff like relationships come easy.

 

I dunno...it's late, I'm tipsy on wine and really just rambling right now. But I think I'm pretty good at reading people and especially knowing what makes people tick. I'm rarely wrong at initial impressions...and I do sense some commonalities amongst the citizens of LS.

[Bristolius]

How often did he succeed in what? Getting a number? A girlfriend? I've seen him pull numbers and I do recall him having a gf at some point in time. I was more friends with his older brother who was a teammate of mine. But we all hung out in the same circles.

 

But here's the thing. After spending almost half a year here at LS, I've learned ONE thing. You can't tell people like somedude what to do or how to act. This isn't Ryan Gosling "training" Steve Carrell in Crazy Stupid Love. That doesn't happen in real life.

 

You can say "dress better", "act more like a man"...but I have to be pretty honest...I don't think it makes a lick of difference. I used to...but in the last few days I've had sort of a "revelation" so to speak. In my 38 years of life, I've had more friends than I can count. And out of all my friends, of all shapes and sizes, of all ends of the attractiveness scale...only ONE...ONE friend has been perpetually single all these years.

 

This person was my best friend since high school. He had major mommy issues and admitted that he was unable to feel "attachment" to women due to it. But this guy wasn't a player...he wasn't doing ANYTHING. A girl could walk up to him, give him her number, tell him she liked him and to call her and he would toss the number in the trash. That's a hypothetical but not far from the truth.

 

Somedude has already mentioned he has upbringing issues. *I* had mommy issues growing up. I honestly and truly believe that somedude's problem lies deeper than just not being able to get a girl to like him. I think there is something deeper that he needs to find out about...or bring to the surface and deal with once and for all.

 

I also believe that KNOWING that your problem is not YOU per say, but your deluded perception of yourself....THAT is a big help all on its own. It helped me...a LOT.

 

SD feels aggrieved. He is constantly sidetracked by the idea that "women have it easier". There's a clue.

[IT Geek]

L

Because of my upbringing I have never placed a high value on the external. I realize this too shall pass. And everyone will be left with their own experience and honestly determine their own value at the end of this life. The happen chance of beauty is a fleeting one. We should value more the quality of a human.

 

Too bad only a fraction of the population feels that way.

[IT Geek]

While I agree these are just a part of who we end up with. It's your face and bodily attractiveness, clothing, posture... things that can be sensed without talking to someone, that open the door to getting to know the real person underneath it all.

 

Finally someone who agrees with me!

 

As a general rule, if you're not physically attractive, you're pretty screwed in the dating world. People automatically dismiss you based on looks.

[IT Geek]

Y

I hate to name a name but look at the exchange between me and IT Geek. If I was shallow I would have thought that the rating he posted was a total measure of him as a person. Instead I advised him to pick a mate based on character and how they treat him not looks.

 

Me as a person? I would rate myself at least a 9. I volunteer, have a stable job, good income, great friends, etc. It's the looks scale that I'm in the basement on. I was actually attracted to a woman that was at a photography workshop a couple of weekends ago. She was overweight, but like me she has improved her lifestyle and is working on getting back in shape. She had a great personality, and a cute accent. Did I "make a move?" Nope, because I know what the outcome would be.

[IT Geek]

One thing I see in common with people who have little to no dating success is an overall defeatist attitude. You are set up perfectly for failure SD. You believe in your failure more than you believe in yourself.

 

But the defeatist attitude has to be born somewhere, and with guys who for whatever reason can't get a date, it is spawned from the constant rejections.

[IT Geek]

My butt is way outa your league.

 

This thread is back on topic!!!!

[JuneJulySeptember]

Me as a person? I would rate myself at least a 9. I volunteer, have a stable job, good income, great friends, etc. It's the looks scale that I'm in the basement on. I was actually attracted to a woman that was at a photography workshop a couple of weekends ago. She was overweight, but like me she has improved her lifestyle and is working on getting back in shape. She had a great personality, and a cute accent. Did I "make a move?" Nope, because I know what the outcome would be.

 

Didn't you say you have a doctorate from Georgia Tech in Engineering?

 

Anyway, yes I agree. People get the impression that unsuccessful men sit on their butts all day and do nothing, but sometimes it's just far from the truth.

 

Looks mean a lot. You just have to kind of accept your lot in life and work with it.

[ThaWholigan]

Didn't you say you have a doctorate from Georgia Tech in Engineering?

 

Anyway, yes I agree. People get the impression that unsuccessful men sit on their butts all day and do nothing, but sometimes it's just far from the truth.

 

Looks mean a lot. You just have to kind of accept your lot in life and work with it.

In a way yes, but in a way no. Nobody's saying you're sitting on your butts doing nothing, but you're still in control - it is the fact that you attribute circumstance to an external force outside of your control therefore you can do nothing about it. That's what people are getting at.

 

You shouldn't be doing that. If I did that, I wouldn't have gotten laid, I would still be how I was when I was 20. In fact, if I did that to life in general, I would have been in a language unit and going to special school.

[JuneJulySeptember]

In a way yes, but in a way no. Nobody's saying you're sitting on your butts doing nothing, but you're still in control - it is the fact that you attribute circumstance to an external force outside of your control therefore you can do nothing about it. That's what people are getting at.

 

You shouldn't be doing that. If I did that, I wouldn't have gotten laid, I would still be how I was when I was 20. In fact, if I did that to life in general, I would have been in a language unit and going to special school.

 

I didn't say you couldn't do anything about it.

 

You can use your personality and success. But she just might not be into you in 'that way'. So, you may have to adjust your expectations of how women will be attracted to you.

[Mrlonelyone]

Me as a person? I would rate myself at least a 9. I volunteer, have a stable job, good income, great friends, etc. It's the looks scale that I'm in the basement on. I was actually attracted to a woman that was at a photography workshop a couple of weekends ago. She was overweight, but like me she has improved her lifestyle and is working on getting back in shape. She had a great personality, and a cute accent. Did I "make a move?" Nope, because I know what the outcome would be.

 

 

Those are all really really good things to do and great qualities to have. It's too bad many people won't give you a chance because of external and superficial factors.

 

However, if you don't give yourself a chance who else will? If you get another chance to ask out that woman from the photography workshop. Don't assume she will say no and don't fret if she does. There are plenty of women who would be proud to call you theirs.

[IT Geek]

Didn't you say you have a doctorate from Georgia Tech in Engineering?

 

Anyway, yes I agree. People get the impression that unsuccessful men sit on their butts all day and do nothing, but sometimes it's just far from the truth.

 

Looks mean a lot. You just have to kind of accept your lot in life and work with it.

 

I have a Masters in computer science and am starting my PhD program.

[Sun Devil]

It geek, how many women do you approach a week? I want to know if you have been putting effort into finding a woman.

[IT Geek]

There are plenty of women who would be proud to call you theirs.

 

Based on my lack of dating success over the past 2 years I find that statement to be reasonably suspect.

[Mrlonelyone]

Based on my lack of dating success over the past 2 years I find that statement to be reasonably suspect.

 

The thing is IT Geek, the woman proud to call you theirs may just be someone who needs to look past the external and see the internal. For them you may well need to do the same.

 

Think of it this way.

 

Can one honestly complain about hot members of the opposite sex not noticing them when they themselves don't notice the non-hot members of the opposite sex?

[StanMusial]

I think the best way to get a sense of your "league" is to reflect on the women you have dated in the past (with consistency).

 

Here's a rough sketch.

 

If you've dated hot women (pretty face + nice body) you're in the upper league.

If you've dated cute women (cute face + nice body or passable body), you're in the low upper to mid-tier league.

If you've dated average women (cute/average face or passable body), you're in the mid-tier league.

If you've dated below average women (average face + overweight) you're in the lower mid-tier to lower tier.

If you've never been on a date, had a gf, or kissed a girl, you're not really on the radar.

[Mrlonelyone]

I think the best way to get a sense of your "league" is to reflect on the women you have dated in the past (with consistency).

 

Here's a rough sketch.

 

If you've dated hot women (pretty face + nice body) you're in the upper league.

If you've dated cute women (cute face + nice body or passable body), you're in the low upper to mid-tier league.

If you've dated average women (cute/average face or passable body), you're in the mid-tier league.

If you've dated below average women (average face + overweight) you're in the lower mid-tier to lower tier.

If you've never been on a date, had a gf, or kissed a girl, you're not really on the radar.

 

Clearly that is the final test of what league you are in dating wise and physical attractiveness wise.

 

A too like the one in my Op is more for fun, and for getting a rough handle on where one ought to be. This is especially for people who haven't dated much / at all.

[Mrlonelyone]

Honestly I don't think any women notice me.

 

For example this is something that happened yesterday:

 

Two girls are walking towards me, talking to each other.

 

The rest of what happens is because of the above.

 

Here I am carrying the groceries + my shoulder bag and of course they act like they haven't seen me at all and are walking right towards me.

 

"Ok."

 

I move slightly to the right so they will hit my shopping basket instead of me.

 

Guess what happens?

 

Yep.

 

"Oh gosh sorry!" she says as he walks straight into the basket, feeling sheepish.

 

I was legitimately invisible to them. It didn't occur to them that I would not be the one who would walk around them.

 

If I was tall and handsome, they would pay attention to me, and split apart to make room for me and my ****, or go off to one side.

 

As it is, even though I'm a "man", bigger and stronger than them, I have no social value. I am not recognized or respected - they are queens, I am a peasant.

 

They did not notice you because they were really into their conversation with eachother.

 

Now as for their acting like queens and you a peasant. I've noticed this from certain women too. Men will always make way for eachother unless they are looking for a fight. Some women have a really entitled attitude and even if you are looking straight at them with full eye contact they will walk straight at you thinking you'll give way to them.

[somedude81]

I think the best way to get a sense of your "league" is to reflect on the women you have dated in the past (with consistency).

 

Here's a rough sketch.

 

If you've dated hot women (pretty face + nice body) you're in the upper league.

If you've dated cute women (cute face + nice body or passable body), you're in the low upper to mid-tier league.

If you've dated average women (cute/average face or passable body), you're in the mid-tier league.

If you've dated below average women (average face + overweight) you're in the lower mid-tier to lower tier.

If you've never been on a date, had a gf, or kissed a girl, you're not really on the radar.

Woot! I'm stealth baby! They never see my coming.

 

Ninja say what?

[Charlie Harper]

Ill repeat it, there are no leagues, because if that was true only beautiful couples would exist and that is not the case. A lot of guys use it as a excuse to be shy, or not going for it with a woman, or because they lack the confidence or manners to do it.

 

You could be George Clooney and be a creep and nobody would date you, or look dirty or not being groomed, good haircut and shaven and there goes your chances, also being too needy, too polite or too wanting come as creep and awkward.

 

Before I got married I used to multidate and lots of them were super hot girsl because I was stupid and thought that hot girl was better than an intelligent and funny Woman.

I doesnt mean a had a 100% success rate because the not so hot women avoided me like the plague, and much later I found out it was because they saw me as shallow (surprise surprise) and that some of them were intimidated by my "record".

 

I was not very bright in choosing my wife, she choose me and went through a lot to get me, because quite frankly I did not see how good she was till a lot later, but she kept asking me and hanging around at the right distance for me to notice...

 

So back to topic, being handsome helps but attitude, confidence and good conversation and humor goes a LOOONG way.

[IT Geek]

Can one honestly complain about hot members of the opposite sex not noticing them when they themselves don't notice the non-hot members of the opposite sex?

 

But I do. Don't know if it was mentioned in this thread, but I was enamored with a lady at a photography workshop a couple of weekends ago. She was overweight also, but like me has changed her lifestyle and is working on getting back in shape. Definitely have a shared interest in nature photography. And she had the cutest hint of a British accent although she was born and raised here. LOL

[Mrlonelyone]

Not so Charlie.

 

What you say about "only beautiful couples" would be true if no one ever realized that looks aren't everything. That they are not a 10 or a 9 and "settling" for someone about as attractive as them is not settling at all. It is taking the time to get to know a really great person who while they may not amaze by their look, wow's with their everything else.

 

The fat that most couples are of about the same level of attractiveness demonstrates that leagues do exist.