She found out and now I want to get THEM back together

[woinlove]

Anyone that is willing to use their child as a pawn should lose their kids. Both sides. I think the same for the MM or woman that uses their kids as an excuse. Period.

 

Do you think this child should be made a ward of the state? Both parents used the child as a pawn. The mother by threatening not to return from Peru if he was cheating, and the father by basically agreeing to this by signing the affidavit, choosing not to go with them, and knowing he was cheating, rather than choosing any of several other options that would ensure his rights as a father were protected. One was making a threat involving the son and the other was tossing the dice and gambling, while giving his wife the paperwork to carry through on the threat.

 

What could possibly be their motivations for using their child this way. The mother's was likely a desire to not have a cheating spouse and to have the father with her and their son. She may have thought the threat had some chance of working in this way. The father's motivation was likely because he wanted to cheat and by not signing the affidavit he would be raising red flags that could jeopardize him having both an OW and a W. I'd say at least the mother likely had better motivations than the father, although both acted poorly.

[Any]

I know I will probably be crucified for this but has it occurred to anyone that MAYBE he really was unhappy in the marriage and only did stay because he was so scared she would do exactly what she is doing now?

[bentnotbroken]

I know I will probably be crucified for this but has it occurred to anyone that MAYBE he really was unhappy in the marriage and only did stay because he was so scared she would do exactly what she is doing now?

 

 

Yes...it is possible that he was unhappy in the marriage. But he cared about his son so much he did the exact thing he knew could lose him his son and then got busted. He also ignored his option of going the legal route. Hiring an attorney and doing everything above board. Instead he handled it with his privates. That is dumb..no matter how you slice it.

[dreamingoftigers]

It's all wrong and that's why selfish people shouldn't have a marriage or children.

 

Fixed that for you...

[dreamingoftigers]

Yes, it happens.

 

Generally OW is not thrown under the bus and MOM divorces his wife to be with you.

 

That's exactly opposite of everything I've seen here.

 

I can't think of any OW that went from OW to GF to stable LTR with MM on any LS threads. I know that there are a small handful of folks that say that they did it, but I've never seen the threads transition that way.

 

Usually MM throws OW under the bus. I can think of two this week alone.

[ComingInHot]

I appreciate your acknowledging your part in the A. I also think it is amazing that you sound sincerely remorseful to the extent of wanting to help fix what sounds like a terrible outcome to the destruction of a family.

 

From a betrayed Wife perspective and w/the information you've given, I believe that any further communication may possibly be seen as you continuing to "interfere" w/the marriage and family...

 

You stated you had a Six hour "battle" online w/his Wife. Did it end amicably? I so, then maybe she'll listen but I kind of doubt it.

 

The best thing, or what I would see as somewhat positive, is for the OW to say her piece then go away. For good. That "one last" attempt to communicate may push his wife over the edge but your silence may allow her a moment to catch her breath and consider what options may be better for her and her child than leaving forever.

 

Peace for you will come when you turn onto a different path*

[jwi71]

I know I will probably be crucified for this but has it occurred to anyone that MAYBE he really was unhappy in the marriage and only did stay because he was so scared she would do exactly what she is doing now?

 

So me let me get this straight.

 

He marries, has a son and then the M deteriorates to a point that he stays M strictly out of fear that she may leave for Peru...

 

...and has an A....

 

...because getting caught in no way would affect his "upset to the point of running back to Peru with his son do he will never see her again"...

 

...AND he signed a waiver while banging you on the side specifically allowing her to take the child to Peru...

 

...and he did all of this out of fear his W might find an excuse to flee.

 

Really?

[dreamingoftigers]

I appreciate your acknowledging your part in the A. I also think it is amazing that you sound sincerely remorseful to the extent of wanting to help fix what sounds like a terrible outcome to the destruction of a family.

 

From a betrayed Wife perspective and w/the information you've given, I believe that any further communication may possibly be seen as you continuing to "interfere" w/the marriage and family...

 

You stated you had a Six hour "battle" online w/his Wife. Did it end amicably? I so, then maybe she'll listen but I kind of doubt it.

 

The best thing, or what I would see as somewhat positive, is for the OW to say her piece then go away. For good. That "one last" attempt to communicate may push his wife over the edge but your silence may allow her a moment to catch her breath and consider what options may be better for her and her child than leaving forever.

 

Peace for you will come when you turn onto a different path*

 

Actually OP, if you have it in you at all, maybe sending BW an apology would be in order. As much as you think MM is being victimized here, you actually helped to victimize her and destroy her marriage. It might even help them get along slightly better. Anything else would be interference.

 

I saw a LOT of justifying in your OP and in your subsequent post.

[Got it]

That's exactly opposite of everything I've seen here.

 

I can't think of any OW that went from OW to GF to stable LTR with MM on any LS threads. I know that there are a small handful of folks that say that they did it, but I've never seen the threads transition that way.

 

Usually MM throws OW under the bus. I can think of two this week alone.

 

Really??? I guess you don't read my posts.

[whichwayisup]

That's when I began putting pressure on him to end his marriage he said he couldn't his wife was from Peru and he was panicked she would take his very young son back to Peru if he left I figured this was all bull**** so I ended things. Saturday his wife found out about us she facebooked me and asked if it was true I confirmed it mainly because I was pissed at him for giving her my name and throwing me to her like that. A major war waged between me and his wife for about six hours online,

 

What do you mean a war? six hours? What happened during those six hours?

 

Yes he threw you under the bus but you had a huge helping hand in all this. You chose to continue with a man who LIED to you, hid the fact he was married, then when you found out, you still chose to have an A with him. You even pressured him to leave his wife and come to you. He has a right to be angry at you too, like it or not. Though he certainly has to shoulder A LOT of the blame here, you are not the victim in all this. If you continued on for months without knowing he was married, then yes, you would have been a victim here too, like his wife.

 

Are you truly sorry that you helped hurt his wife?

[Got it]

All it really doesn't matter. You can wax moralistic as long as you like but the law is the law. What he signed was for a visit. He can seek legal recourse if she doesn't come back as it is considered kidnapping; doesn't matter if it by another parent.

 

Unfortunately there are kids kidnapped by parents during divorce proceedings, etc. Legally you can't do that. You must do it by the laws of the land or you are kidnapping and no one is going to care its because your husband cheated on you as your reasoning. It just doesn't equalize.

[KathyM]

he would NEVER see his child again. he made a mistake but he doesn't deserve this. I feel my heart being ripped from me for him I know first hand how much he adores his child.

Apparently, he doesn't value his child enough, since he was willing to risk losing him in order to have an affair. Too bad he didn't take this possibility seriously enough BEFORE he went down that road.

[jwi71]

All it really doesn't matter. You can wax moralistic as long as you like but the law is the law. What he signed was for a visit. He can seek legal recourse if she doesn't come back as it is considered kidnapping; doesn't matter if it by another parent.

 

There's a very important distriction here though - if a parent kidnaps and returns to home country, one must now abide by the laws of said country even IF they are Hague signatories. In short, it doesn't matter what US or international law says - what matters is the "country of origin" laws and customs. If the country of origin's courts decide to "not play ball" and allow his W ti have custody - the child isn't leaving.

 

My point is it can, and especially so here, the parent kidnapping be a very pertinent fact as opposed to a non-family member.

 

Unfortunately there are kids kidnapped by parents during divorce proceedings, etc. Legally you can't do that. You must do it by the laws of the land or you are kidnapping and no one is going to care its because your husband cheated on you as your reasoning. It just doesn't equalize.

 

What would matter is if the Peruvian courts decided that mon should have custody. Nothing else would really matter.

 

Anyways - I agree with what you are saying in general but here, parental kidnapping can make all the difference.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

Don't take this the wrong way, But I worry about you. It seems that you have a pattern of justifying inappropriate behaviours, both of him and yourself. Some may not be concrete examples. Others are pretty solid.

 

It seems like you have really played the ends of the Karpman drama triangle, with the wife being the Persecutor. You really defend the Hell out of MM too. The only really down thing that I've noticed is "he's cocky."

 

How about the fact that he openly and knowingly risked his marriage and a permanent relationship with his son. If I thought for 12ms that I could lose my daughter over an extra-marital affair, there's not a chance that I would think twice about it.

 

Your justifications:

wore no wedding ring.

 

but I still enjoyed the attention and after having gone through a divorce where my ex didn't love me and never treated me as a person it felt good to have that attention.

 

I convinced my self it was harmless. about a month later our affair began.

 

I thought that was it but he continued to call every day and we continued to text and email.

 

I confirmed it mainly because I was pissed at him for giving her my name and throwing me to her like that.

 

Defending him:

 

he made a mistake but he doesn't deserve this.

I know first hand how much he adores his child. He always told me if it was just for love he'd leave her but he couldn't because of his son,

 

I wish I could get her back together with him because as a parent I know it would be better to be stuck in a miserable marriage WITH your child then be in a happy relationship WITHOUT them.

 

As a parent my heart goes out to this man.

 

Toss in another justification:

 

Or affair was not lengthy and I'm not sure i loved him but at very least I was begining to.

 

Defend MM again:

BUT she made the choice to have a child with him they had been married 8 years when their son was born she knew who he was at that point and should have known he was capable of this.

 

she certainly isn't a shining example of a mother if she would deprive her son of a father because of her own selfish "rules"

 

has it occurred to anyone that MAYBE he really was unhappy in the marriage and only did stay because he was so scared she would do exactly what she is doing now?

 

Do you see the pattern. Could it be the same pattern of overlooking very blunt, obvious blame and shifting it to more convenient sources?

 

You went by all of the red flags at warp speed and you pressured this guy to leave his family. That suggests a disconnect. He LIED to you to start this relationship. Straight out, bald faced lied. He is cocky. He has a son he risked losing. He has a wife who has been very blunt about consequences.

 

Honestly I hope you get some Independent Counseling. Figure out why you attracted this guy and any others who have a real honesty problem. I think it is because you are not very honest with yourself. It's been four pages of posts and it jumps right out.

[SoleMate]

Saturday his wife found out about us she facebooked me and asked if it was true I confirmed it mainly because I was pissed at him for giving her my name and throwing me to her like that. A major war waged between me and his wife for about six hours online, he of course begged her to stay and said I was nothing but a whore to him like all married men do in the end. But then the real bomb came she told me Monday morning (ie yesterday) she had a signed affidavid to return to Peru with their son and he would NEVER see his child again.she said he knew my rules and this comes as no shock to him.

I might have missed it, but it appears all the wife's "statements" to the OW were made online. See bold above. Therefore, the BW "statements" may actually have come from the MM.

 

Bottom line, regardless of who is doing or saying what, the right thing is for the OW to go NC.

[dreamingoftigers]

I might have missed it, but it appears all the wife's "statements" to the OW were made online. See bold above. Therefore, the BW "statements" may actually have come from the MM.

 

Bottom line, regardless of who is doing or saying what, the right thing is for the OW to go NC.

 

Very very astute, Solemate.

[Any]

Why do I think the wife is in the wrong? I'm sure I will be hung out to dry for this one but who cares at this point....

 

She used her son to keep her husband in a marriage she told him you leave me ill take your son you cheat ill take your son.... Basically if you're no my faithful servant for life ill take your son. Sure he could have divorced her but the second any paper work started being processed she would have cut and run with the kid to Peru like she did yesterday any way maybe no one read my original post closely enough to realize she left yesterday his kid is already gone. Now another point is the fact that it is not that hard to get a child into another country without both parents consent so even if he hadn't signed the end result probably would have been the same. They rarely question the mother.

 

I wouldn't want a man to stay with me just because he didn't want me taking his child period I wouldn't set my self up like that and I don't care what anyone says telling someone you either stay with me or I will take your kid is setting them self up.

 

He might be a liar and I might be a tramp but she is an idiot for giving him no out of a loveless marriage without losing his son.

[Got it]

The great ethical fallacy:

 

If there is no law against it it cannot be immoral: The affair:laugh::laugh:

 

If there is a law against it then it is immoral.

 

 

No. I am not saying that at all. Please read for comprehension. I am not touching the morality of it.

 

I am just stating what the laws are. You cannot kidnap your kid. Period. Full Stop.

[bentnotbroken]

Why do I think the wife is in the wrong? I'm sure I will be hung out to dry for this one but who cares at this point....

 

She used her son to keep her husband in a marriage she told him you leave me ill take your son you cheat ill take your son.... Basically if you're no my faithful servant for life ill take your son. Sure he could have divorced her but the second any paper work started being processed she would have cut and run with the kid to Peru like she did yesterday any way maybe no one read my original post closely enough to realize she left yesterday his kid is already gone. Now another point is the fact that it is not that hard to get a child into another country without both parents consent so even if he hadn't signed the end result probably would have been the same. They rarely question the mother.

 

I wouldn't want a man to stay with me just because he didn't want me taking his child period I wouldn't set my self up like that and I don't care what anyone says telling someone you either stay with me or I will take your kid is setting them self up.

 

He might be a liar and I might be a tramp but she is an idiot for giving him no out of a loveless marriage without losing his son.

 

 

No you don't get it. He screwed up his own options....he did not have to leave the decision in any one's hands. He had the option...he didn't take it.

[Any]

Just to clarify yes my communications with her were online however I spoke with him on the phone with her in the background kicking up a loud enough fuss to know she actually knows he cheated.

[Any]

Can someone please tell me the option C. I seem to be missing... Divorce takes kid cheats takes kid.... I suppose option C must be stay in unhappy marriage until kid is 18?

[Got it]

Why do I think the wife is in the wrong? I'm sure I will be hung out to dry for this one but who cares at this point....

 

She used her son to keep her husband in a marriage she told him you leave me ill take your son you cheat ill take your son.... Basically if you're no my faithful servant for life ill take your son. Sure he could have divorced her but the second any paper work started being processed she would have cut and run with the kid to Peru like she did yesterday any way maybe no one read my original post closely enough to realize she left yesterday his kid is already gone. Now another point is the fact that it is not that hard to get a child into another country without both parents consent so even if he hadn't signed the end result probably would have been the same. They rarely question the mother.

 

I wouldn't want a man to stay with me just because he didn't want me taking his child period I wouldn't set my self up like that and I don't care what anyone says telling someone you either stay with me or I will take your kid is setting them self up.

 

He might be a liar and I might be a tramp but she is an idiot for giving him no out of a loveless marriage without losing his son.

 

Any, he can still seek legal recourse. I am not understanding how people are acting like this is a grey area. This is actually one area which is very black and white.

 

Again, I don't know all the details, I doubt except the two of them know, but he does have legal recourse if he decides to take it. Unless you sign over parenting rights, sign over the right for your child to move countries, which is not the same as traveling, etc. And even then there are still avenues to contest.

 

If you want to help him, tell him to see an attorney. Outside of that there is nothing one can do.

[Any]

I'm sure he will seek legal counsel without my needing to tell him but the point is that could take weeks, months in some cases even years. Yes he traveled a lot for work but was allowed to go home every week end and see his child he didn't miss a weekend at home.

[woinlove]

I know I will probably be crucified for this but has it occurred to anyone that MAYBE he really was unhappy in the marriage and only did stay because he was so scared she would do exactly what she is doing now?

 

Depends what country he is in. In the US, a lawyer would have told him he could take preemptive action to ensure his US born son did not leave the country. But, the idea is not really making sense in that he signed an affidavit for his wife and son to leave the country knowing he was doing the very thing that his wife was threatening would make her not come back. And he didn't even bother going with her as planned. Sure, there is work and there are sacrifices, but he was not acting like a man who cared about his son.

[woinlove]

I'm sure he will seek legal counsel without my needing to tell him but the point is that could take weeks, months in some cases even years. Yes he traveled a lot for work but was allowed to go home every week end and see his child he didn't miss a weekend at home.

 

Sorry, I read your initial post of him going home two months after the start of the affair as implying he was not making regular visits.