xOW here to say...

[Mount]

No, I don't feel awful at all - pls do not talk/think for me, because BS does not know and no NEED to know.

 

So Mount you must feel really awful for doing that to her I'd that's what you believe. I don't know how you live with that on your conscience.

[Tenacity]

But having not been decent to his wife who he made much bigger promises too - its really only fair that you get the same. Otherwise he's showing more loyalty to a co-cheater than his wife. And that's not right unless his wide wants him to communicate the ending to help HER.

 

Claiming to love someone and have a future with them over the course of months and years are pretty big promises. To anyone. Not sure how much bigger you get than that. You could argue that the marriage vow is much bigger, but clearly it wasn't much bigger to him when he started making promises to another woman. So if he's such a big man now that he's realized his mistakes and really wants to be loyal to the W, he should be a real man and admit the crap that he put other people through and have the decency to end the R he started before he moves forward with that new goal.

 

It isn't about loyalty. It's about being respectful. It isn't all about the BS being 'helped', even if you think it is, MFH70. Other people were horribly hurt and lied to, other people should be considered, and it's not asking much for someone who promised the world to spend five minutes ending the relationship THEY started.

[Got it]

But what sort of "explanation" do you need?

He's a married man who had an affair, his wife found out and now the party's over.

 

Your ending is not unique in any way, shape or form.

It's VERY common. Cookie cutter in fact.

He doesn't owe you an explanation, nor should you feel entitled to one.

And it doesn't matter how long you've known each other.

 

You have your explanation . . . silence.

 

Why? Why shouldn't you feel entitled to one? Who is to say what anyone should feel they should be entitled to.

 

I feel I am entitled to a good nights sleep but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be panning out. Doesn't change the way I feel.

[Got it]

Presumably Gotit you wouldn't feel entitled if that required a slave sat up fanning you all night though. Because that would be your entitlement harming another. Here the goodbye could easily e seen by the wife as as taking just more and more that she was never right to do in the first place. So the entitlement is at someone's expense. Someone entirely innocent (unlike both MM and OW). It's like freedom of movement ends where someone else's face begins. Well entitlement to contact of any kind with MM ends here his marriage and his wife's best interests start.

 

What???

 

No, the fanning, while lovely, is not reasonable and that is usually my barometer. What is reasonable. Is having someone fan me harming them? What if I pay them? Is that still entitlement?

 

MFH - you miss the point. A person can feel whatever they so choose. The feeling is there regardless. It really doesn't need any qualifiers outside of that. Just like the wife would feel that it would be wrong to have that finally goodbye (and many BS do not seem to based on this and other threads and have actually argued that they feel it would close any doors from being left opened but I forget you speak for all BS), the OW is entitled to feel like she deserves a goodbye.

 

Feeling one is entitled to whatever, and a buck will buy you a coffee. Feeling like you are owed something does nothing in actually compelling another to do it. It is a feeling that one has. It has no direct power over another's actions. They can decide to do it, they can decide not to.

 

And for the life of me I can't even figure out what "freedom of movement ends where someone else's face begins" is trying to mean. You will have to break that down.

[Got it]

Its simple. To swing your arm is your right. If someone steps into your arms path though and you hit them, that's battery. Your freedom of speech ends where defamation begins. Basically your freedom is protected only to the extent it doesn't harm another.

 

No, if you swing your arm, with no intention of hitting someone and someone walks into it is called an accident. Jeez, where did you study law?

 

And no freedom of speech does not end at defamation. First off, if it is factual it is not defamation and two you are still free to speech however you so choose, that doesn't mean that the other person doesn't have the right to counter it with legal or verbal recourse.

 

No, freedom of speech is extended beyond hurt feelings. So are most other freedoms. I may choose to elect certain politicians who's platform is against a group of persons, or funding for them. By helping get them elected, I am hurting someone else. That is my freedom and right. Another example, I have the right to say something against someone else. If it factual, regardless of it it harms them, I am within my rights. Another example, as an employer, I have the right to make the decision whether I will retain my workforce or lay some/all off. Laying them off will harm their financial wellbeing, but I am within my rights. More specifically, healthcare reform. As an employer, I am within my rights to try and mitigate cost by limited my full time status workers to part time, to cut down on what I would owe in heath care. This may potentially harm some or all of the employees, but I am within in right.

 

So explain to me again what your argument is?

[Got it]

Feelings are feelings. But expecting someone else's action at another's detriment is something else.

 

Is something else . . . what? What is something else? If I am waiting to date a guy. Let's say a single guy. And I know of someone else that is interested in him, he asks me out, this negating the other girl but certainty acceptable, correct?

 

Should I tell said guy that because this is at the detriment of the other girl's feelings that he should go with her?

 

I can expect whatever I want. Expecting it and receiving it are two different things. You expect the OW to "tow the line" and not expect certain things. That is your right. But just as purely feeling and opinion as those you are arguing against. Until you are post something factual or at least of sound argument your premise is purely speculative and subjective.

[fooled2manyX]

MFH70 again, it just baffles me that you wrote above that you not only have sympathy for the betrayed spouse, but even a little for the wayward.

 

Yet... OM/OW you have bashed left right & center.

 

It's clear that YOU are a betrayed spouse/partner, who must think your significant other was held at gunpoint by the OM/OW. Forced into a situation. Forced into infidelity. Forced into an affair. Forced into a bed. Forced to say "I love you" , Forced to say "I want to leave my wife and have us be together."

 

Temptation? You seem to view the OW as a temptress. Manipulator. Believe me, in my situation and your brother in law's (if their "is" a brother in law) no one was tricked into anything.

 

25 times, you have written to me that I and other OW are not victims.

 

Well, maybe not. But you seem to have your focus too much of the other person and not enough on the person who ACTUALLY DID THE CHEATING. Because they "say" one day they are done and redeemed????

 

It doesn't work like that. Even if it's just sex, which mine was not.. it still doesn't work like that. it's not cut and dry.

[Mount]

From my perspective, living with/keeping a wayward spouse in the house/under the marriage is kind of life sententce or live torture daily for Betrayed Spouse (if she could not/would not do anything about WH's affair(s) after knowing the Affair fact). Those things/stress eat up their (BS) engergy, mental health, physical health at daily basis and in the long run.

 

So in short, to keep a WH (if still carrying on his "habit") is not a prize at all.

 

 

MFH70 again, it just baffles me that you wrote above that you not only have sympathy for the betrayed spouse, but even a little for the wayward.

 

Yet... OM/OW you have bashed left right & center.

 

It's clear that YOU are a betrayed spouse/partner, who must think your significant other was held at gunpoint by the OM/OW. Forced into a situation. Forced into infidelity. Forced into an affair. Forced into a bed. Forced to say "I love you" , Forced to say "I want to leave my wife and have us be together."

 

Temptation? You seem to view the OW as a temptress. Manipulator. Believe me, in my situation and your brother in law's (if their "is" a brother in law) no one was tricked into anything.

 

25 times, you have written to me that I and other OW are not victims.

 

Well, maybe not. But you seem to have your focus too much of the other person and not enough on the person who ACTUALLY DID THE CHEATING. Because they "say" one day they are done and redeemed????

 

It doesn't work like that. Even if it's just sex, which mine was not.. it still doesn't work like that. it's not cut and dry.

[awkward]

XMM chose to end this relationship this way. It wasn't anyone's choice but his.

 

So I ask the OP, knowing that your XMM dumped you in what you consider the most painful way, say to you about your XMM and your relationship with him?

 

Let him go. Move on. Heal yourself.

[loredo21]

I agree as well. As if looking at more grand picture, in future, OWs or XOWs eventually will get out the misery, move forward to their lives, but it seems that the bitter Betrayed wives are stuck with husbands with philandering habits, so BSs are enduring the live torture which is extremely painful.

 

So basically the ending with OW could be short time pain for OW, but for BS they knew what their hubsband are capable of, they will keep hold on and watch and be tortured till the end.

 

So why the **** do these BS hang onto these "men"?!?!!!

I'm near convinced that it has become only a competition to the BS. That she doesn't want to see the OW "win"....and keeping the WS miserable is worth it to them just to say that they got him in the end. I'm so sick of this ****!

Drop his sorry ass and let him make his own decisions instead of threatening him and scaring him into staying. I don't really care who says that's not the case. It IS!

[bentnotbroken]

So why the **** do these BS hang onto these "men"?!?!!!

I'm near convinced that it has become only a competition to the BS. That she doesn't want to see the OW "win"....and keeping the WS miserable is worth it to them just to say that they got him in the end. I'm so sick of this ****!

Drop his sorry ass and let him make his own decisions instead of threatening him and scaring him into staying. I don't really care who says that's not the case. It IS!

 

• Win what? A man who will lie and cheat? That's not a prize.
  
• Why is he miserable? How can one adult keep another where they don't want to be? Could his misery be a result of his inability to make a choice?
  
• Scares a grown man...how? The poor little man is scared.
  
• Drop him?...seems like he has already gone pretty low.
  
• Is it the case? Really? I guess you have absolute proof of that and don't mind sharing that proof.
  

[loredo21]

• Win what? A man who will lie and cheat? That's not a prize.
  
• Why is he miserable? How can one adult keep another where they don't want to be? Could his misery be a result of his inability to make a choice?
  
• Scares a grown man...how? The poor little man is scared.
  
• Drop him?...seems like he has already gone pretty low.
  
• Is it the case? Really? I guess you have absolute proof of that and don't mind sharing that proof.
  

 

Forgive me. I'm feisty tonight.

No. I don't think he's a prize at all. I said it becomes a competition for the BS to win.

If a woman holds a lot of the cards in a marriage she can easily scare and threaten. Happens all the time according to the ahole stories on this site.

Of course WS is making his own misery.

Maybe this is a thread better started on the infidelity board. I would like to know the reasoning.

I have no proof. It just seems to be the same story over and over.

[loredo21]

:laugh:

"Hang on" to them?

 

Speaking of hanging on, my husband was on the floor LITERALLY hanging on to my feet and legs begging me to not leave him

 

What did you threaten?

[bentnotbroken]

Forgive me. I'm feisty tonight.

No. I don't think he's a prize at all. I said it becomes a competition for the BS to win.

If a woman holds a lot of the cards in a marriage she can easily scare and threaten. Happens all the time according to the ahole stories on this site.

Of course WS is making his own misery.

Maybe this is a thread better started on the infidelity board. I would like to know the reasoning.

I have no proof. It just seems to be the same story over and over.

 

 

For some BS as well as AP things might turn into a competition...it doesn't happen that way for quite a few (they even post on this site). It doesn't really matter where the thread was started...does change the fact that some of us didn't feel as if there was a competition. Pissed off yes....looking for some payback....probably. I didn't hold all the cards in the marriage, but I made sure I held all the cards in filing for a divorce. I did threaten to get what I wanted...as the cards I held were a beautiful hand dealt to me by others.

 

I am sure any man worth his salt won't let the threats of a woman who is unworthy of knowing the truth scare him. He is the one in control of the entire mess. He created it why should he be afraid of it? That does not make sense? Either the woman is too frail/stupid/doesn't care about him/treats him like crap/ugly/sexually repressed/horrible mother/wife...to scare him or he is lying his gluts off.

[ComingInHot]

fooled2manyX;

 

You know by now I was a BW so you probably understand why I feel so strongly that A's are all around ugly. It hurts me even more when my husband's exOW Knowing he was married to me jumped in eyes wide open. Ugh.

 

For a moment, I wish I could strip all of us of our "titles", BS/BH/BW/OW/OM... and realize that regardless of right or wrong choices, the feelings we ALL feel are REAL.!.!

 

I think your situation of being "left hanging" is awful and your pain as real as mine was. The complicated thing (and I don't know your exMM) is that he Should take responsibility for his actions but to whom? And herein lies the overall debate of this thread.

 

Does he apologize to the woman he vowed his life to because he Wants to reconcile?

Does he apologize to the OW for realizing the things spoken in whimsy (however honest) were not so in reality? Maybe they were but he's chosen his Wife again..

Is he responsible to apologizing to both of them?

 

It's Not right how he left you. It's not right how he came to you. It's not right what he did to his legal partner/wife. It's not right period. And know that from my own pain and hurt I understand and sympathize with you & yours.

 

I stand by earlier post. You deserve a better future. And personally, regardless of your past choices, better than him!

[Mount]

That is nothing to be bragged about, usually those kinds of men are the opposite of winners or low in cutivation as they know what they are up to and what are their agendas(usually to take advantage of certain emotionally weak women).

 

During the second month of marriage, EX already knee down on the floor begging me not leaving him (related to other reasons), but still, less than 10 months later I D him, cut to the chase, saving me a clean plate.

 

Everyone should remember, if A MAN cries, or begs, it is a RED FLAG, because that does not mean he wants you(the woman), he only wants the benefit of you staying with him. As my EX had been crying, begging, knee down many times during dating time, I should have known IT IS NOT A GOOD SIGN so I would not get into relationship with him at all. Looking back, those kind of behaviors are totally LOSERS' behavior.

 

:laugh:

"Hang on" to them?

 

Speaking of hanging on, my husband was on the floor LITERALLY hanging on to my feet and legs begging me to not leave him

Edited January 21, 2013 by Mount

[Mount]

I am just saying you really need WATCH, or leave an eye open for you H, becoz their flaw inside was so deep, inherited from family, or developed from childhood.

 

Oh trust me Mount, I am definitely not bragging.

[Mount]

That is great...knowing how to protect yourself, doing the chess move one more step earlier is always good thing.

 

My EX's neediness such as in early stage of dating time or marriage he would think I might leave, so after each argument he would always be begging, crying, non-stop texting...... I have to cut those kind of loser off very very quickly.

 

I agree. Not only do I have one eye open, but I also have one foot already out the door.

[Tenacity]

I agree. Not only do I have one eye open, but I also have one foot already out the door.

 

I think this is one of the first times I have heard you say anything at all about your experience. It helps.

 

I'm sorry for the pain you are going through. I wish I could snap my fingers and get rid of all this pain for everyone on this forum. Almost everyone here are good people and don't deserve this.

 

It sounds like he is sorry. I can understand why you would have one foot out the door, but it may be like Decorative that he will crawl through broken glass to get it back ... then that one foot that you still have in the door is the right way. I truly hope it works out for you.

 

Just my humble opinion, not having ever been in your position (I was a BS, but in a bad marriage so I never felt like you do).

[Mount]

Exactly same here, I have to admit that I liked at that time as well but in my mind saying something was not right.

 

Even though I agreed to marry him and then everyone was asking when/if we would have baby soon, but I really did not think that is a good idea thus I even asked him to put on two protections each time $%^. Eventually I left the relationship quickly within first 12 months of marriage.

 

When someone is deeply wrong or damaged due to how they brought up or bad cultivation, their partners can not fix them, it is not our job.

 

That's interesting you should say that because my husband was very needy and clingy from the moment I met him. He put me up on a very tall pedestal, which I admit I liked at the time. I was in my mid-20's and itching to get married. And there he was - all into me - and when he started talking marriage a few months after meeting, I went with it.

 

BUT, it got old real fast after we married. He had a traumatic childhood and I think he always wanted me to put him up on the same pedestal he was putting me on.

 

I'm sooo not like that with men though - I don't do the pedestal thing.

Even with the men I was head over heels for - I wouldn't do it either.

[Tenacity]

I'm a little guarded on here when it comes to my story, but thank you for reaching out to me.

 

I have to be honest and say that his bending over backwards to make it up to me is the only thing that has kept me in the marriage. I don't know about other BS, but it does make it harder for me to pull the plug.

 

But I can't say the bending over backwards has made that much of a difference. It all feels fake for me when I try to respond to his attempts at reconciliation - from him kissing me to him holding my hand.

 

I refuse to do marriage counseling. I feel like it would be a waste of my time - he's a phony in my eyes. Yeah, I could have him do the whole polygraph thing every year until the day we die, but it still wouldn't matter.

 

I have days where I can't imagine being married to anyone else and then some days when I just want him gone because his presence makes me sick.

 

Not easy.

 

I am so sorry. (And that statement seems really inadequate).

 

Coming from me, this might not mean much, but your sharing that has made a world of difference in understanding what you are going through.

 

His bending over backwards to be with you is huge in my opinion. I don't think you should give up and I understand why you would have the day to day variation in how you want to move forward. God, I am so sorry.

 

Even really good people aren't perfect though and if he wanted to be with his AP, he would be now. It's not his choice. His choice is you...

 

I know you see me as on the "other side", but really I'm not. If you ever want a friend to talk to (not that I know the answers) please PM me and I'll give you my email address.

 

Thanks for sharing what you did of your story. I'm so sorry for what you are going through, and I can't possibly understand (and won't pretend to) but I think you are on the right track trying to get it back.

[Mount]

Man doing things always has a purpose (just like MM woos OW.....ok, guilt as charged). Anyway, when looking back, EX or those men put us on high pedestal, begging/crying, acting like wanting to 24 hours sticking with us, is not because they "love" us, is because they want the benefit of we being with them.

 

That's something I should have done.

It was about the 12 month mark when I realized maybe I had made a mistake.

[Tenacity]

That's interesting you should say that because my husband was very needy and clingy from the moment I met him. He put me up on a very tall pedestal, which I admit I liked at the time. I was in my mid-20's and itching to get married. And there he was - all into me - and when he started talking marriage a few months after meeting, I went with it.

 

BUT, it got old real fast after we married. He had a traumatic childhood and I think he always wanted me to put him up on the same pedestal he was putting me on.

 

I'm sooo not like that with men though - I don't do the pedestal thing.

Even with the men I was head over heels for - I wouldn't do it either.

 

Same story I had. He was needy and clingy, I was less so (much less so after about a year of marriage).

 

I was married to him within 6 months after meeting. And I am sooo not like that with men either (it was stupid)

 

For me, I thought it was the right "time" to get married. I was in my late 20's, time to start a family, and all that.

[Tenacity]

Thank you Alice.

[SidLyon]

To give him his freedom, apparently.

 

My H even before his affair was somewhat cold and aloof, seemingly self sufficient and a bit of a loner. During the affair we can add a little selfishness and callousness to the mix as well as giving the impression he felt "trapped" in his life with me.

 

In the weeks/months after d-day he was literally begging me to stay with him. He wasn't quite on the floor holding onto my leg, but freedom from me was the last thing he appeared to want.

 

This was almost as shocking to me as the discovery of his infidelity. I still don't quite understand why he didn't seize d-day as the opportunity to get away from me. Only a few days before, he had e-mailed the OW (of several years) telling her of his undying love for her and how he wanted to be with her and how she shouldn't worry about disrupting his life, because that would apparently have been a welcome relief to him to have it out in the open with me.

 

This e-mail was the most damaging evidence of his infidelity that I discovered on d-day. Besides being totally blindsided I just assumed my marriage was over.

 

I still get a little overwhelmed when I think about it now, mainly because it has never made sense to me.

 

Yet it seems a common reaction of a WH/MM when caught out by his BW.

Edited January 21, 2013 by SidLyon