xOW here to say...

[Saba]

MFH70 I know you can't fathom it, but a person can own their own crap and choose his marriage and his wife and still treat another person with a measure of decency, (even if you don't think it's deserved). Simply by saying, it's over, and I'm sorry you have been hurt by this affair. I will not be speaking with you again in any form as I'm going to recommit to my wife completely because in spite of our affair, I do love her. I wish you well ow. End......

 

This serves 3 purposes, it lets the ow know it's over and where his loyalty lies and it's also as respectful as it can be under the circumstances to the wife.

 

It's like this mfh.........if a man thinks a woman is good enough to stick his parts in, then he damn sure ought to think she is still good enough to say it's over. A man who is too frigging cowardly to say it's over, and can't say that he is committing to the wife and the marriage, doesn't deserve the wife either, because he is still a low life cowardly pos who treats all women badly.

 

I have not read all the posts in this thread as I got to this one and had to respond. The WS does not treat their spouse respectfully while cheating. Is the WS going to become a different person when they end their relationship with the AP and suddenly start to do what is best for others rather than what is best for themselves?

 

I am always irked when I read that the BS should want the AP treated respectfully because it proves that the WS is not a 'low life cowardly pos that treats all women badly' .... they just treat their spouse badly.

 

The AP does not deserve to be treated badly and neither does the BS. What people deserve and what they receive are different things.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Saba
came across the wrong way so I deleted a bit

[ThatJustHappened]

So why the **** do these BS hang onto these "men"?!?!!!

I'm near convinced that it has become only a competition to the BS. That she doesn't want to see the OW "win"....and keeping the WS miserable is worth it to them just to say that they got him in the end. I'm so sick of this ****!

Drop his sorry ass and let him make his own decisions instead of threatening him and scaring him into staying. I don't really care who says that's not the case. It IS!

 

How is 'dropping his sorry @ss' allowing him to make his own decision? Isn't that more like making the decision for him?

[WhatsTheAnswer]

If you left your MM and met a new guy would you feel you owe the MM any closure. Of course not. You would move on and go NC. Then don't expect it from his end. No one is owed closure. In a perfect world yes but its not how relationships work. Especially affairs.

[Silly_Girl]

I know I sound like a broken record, but these MOMs (and MOWs) live in compartments. They tell the OW they love her in the affair compartment and they are not lying. But, this love is only valid in the affair compartment. Once the affair bubble breaks the love falls apart.

 

 

I disagree with the above. An affair ending does not mean there is no love.

[Got it]

I don't want to keep thread jacking (sorry OP), but just want to say that I come here to the infidelity sections to offer my thoughts, but I also come here to keep myself in check. I have so many thoughts of retaliation - getting back at my husband. And I hate thinking this way.

 

I am trying not to make things worse for myself and I think reading and talking to the ladies here (even if we're arguing) keeps me from having a revenge affair.

 

Alice, I wanted to thank you for this post and your very heartfelt message. I imagine the hardest thing, after you find out your spouse has cheated, is that to R, you feel so much "in the hole" so much that they owe you just to try and square back to zero forget even touching into positive numbers), that it is hard not to keep a view point of one foot out the door.

 

I know that dMM can sympathize. He was very devastated by his ex's affair. But what really did it for him, and really the main led up to him allowing himself to have an affair, was the lack of remorse or sympathy to his pain. He was basically told to get over it as when he found out it was a few years later so over and done with. I think that for him, once he went through that, he was no longer invested in the relationship. When it was compounded with a lack of caring, he stayed in body but was gone in heart. I don't believe he was like that prior to the affair. He wasn't happy at times, they struggled as they married very young. But he was invested. Her affair and her anger towards him changed that for him.

 

Anyway, just wanted to offer a hug ((((((((alice)))))))))))

[fooled2manyX]

MeandMyself wrote that I stole something from someone (the BS)

 

Listen, I have written quite a few times now that I know my part in the affair & I know it was wrong. I acknowledge what he owes his wife and their marriage. I acknowledge why he is where he is instead of here with me, even if he said here with me was what he wanted.

 

But I didn't "steal" anything. Some of you people truly give TOO much credit & power to the cheater. Like they were held against their will.

 

Then you look at someone like myself and you tell me over & over again I was owed no goodbye. Because I don't deserve closure & to move on. Because what I did deserve was to sit here in the dark, awaiting his return & divorce like he said & have to figure it out one day that he wasn't coming back. I DESERVE that, for being such a bad girl.

 

Ok.. I am not looking for validation from any of you. I am TELLING YOU that right wrong, or otherwise I know he should have told me that it was over. Period.

 

I didn't MAKE this man do what he did. I didn't think for him, feel for him. I didn't speak for him. I didn't beg him to tell me he was leaving his marriage.

 

I am sorry for the pain it has caused. But I can not take sole blame for it. Furthermore, I can only take care of myself. And my feelings, which I do have.

 

I know what I should have been told. And it doesn't even have anything to do with what I do or don't deserve. It has to do with what happened between the two of us existed. It took place. The bell can't be unrung. He is where he needs to be & should be. He is doing what is right for him.

 

But he still engrossed himself deeply in an emotional affair. So whether he says nothing out of what is respective towards his wife, or because he is cowardly to tell me we weren't going to have the life together he promised, or both... there is a chunk of his life now in which this lies. Not just now. If you read my story, in 2009. In 2007 and 2008. When we were seeing eachother "without" sex. When I told "him" to go, because our friendship wasn't appropriate, because it was evident there were feelings there.

 

You don't steal feelings freely given. And I was not engaged in an ongoing affair this time around. He came back into my life and I said "I will want all of you. I won't have you married." We messed up. We talked & saw eachother for a few months when I should have said "not until you are divorced". I take responsibility. But, I was only talking to him as he told me "I'm going to divorce".

 

I loved him. I loved him more than I've ever loved anyone. I wanted everything he told me. Did I "deserve" a goodbye? Do I "deserve" closure?

 

I deserved to know. To know sooner than I have from figuring it all out. I could have went through this sooner to move on from it.

 

I don't mourn a 3 month affair. I mourn someone whom has been a part of my life in some way for 20 years.

 

And I am not asking permission from anyone here to mourn it.

[Got it]

I agree with the part on the stealing.

 

It is like dMM says, you can't harass the willing. You can't steal from someone who is handing the keys over.

 

In all seriously, I did not own my ex, he did not own me. No one could steal me away as I wasn't an animal or commodity that he owned. I am a person of full capacity and clarity and if I leave it is because I do it willingly and with all my faculties in place.

[waterwoman]

Fooled - so sorry:(

[SidLyon]

I disagree with the above. An affair ending does not mean there is no love.

 

I think Pierre is talking about the "textbook" MM in a "textbook" affair which many but not all MM fall into.

 

I agree that just because an affair ends does not mean there was no love between the APs. Just as having an A, a d-day and then reconciling afterwords does not mean there is no love between the married couple.

 

From reading here for several years now I've come to the conclusion that it's well nigh on impossible for an OW to know for sure whether her MM was "textbook" or not until after a d-day. I also suspect that many a BW on d-day knows nothing about all this and just assumes the marriage is over, as I did.

 

Just so people know what I mean by "textbook". It's when the MM "throws the OW under the bus" and begs his BW to reconcile after a d-day. Sometimes there is some flip-flopping between the 2 women. If eventually the MM leaves for the OW then this is not what I call "textbook". I believe this is in the minority of cases but perhaps not as low as the 3% often quoted, but I can't prove this.

 

I have no doubt that my fWH loved the OW and told her so. However in his words this "evaporated" on d-day. I cannot even imagine how this could occur and how it could have happened to my H of all people. After d-day I agonized for so long about whether his love for someone could be so superficial and whether his love for me and the kids was the same. Could I trust that somehow because he "chose" me, that this meant his love for me was "more" real. I still don't really understand but I do know that for more than 4 years now he has been consistent and I genuinely believe he has not been unfaithful again, or even been tempted.

[SidLyon]

MeandMyself wrote that I stole something from someone (the BS)

 

Listen, I have written quite a few times now that I know my part in the affair & I know it was wrong. I acknowledge what he owes his wife and their marriage. I acknowledge why he is where he is instead of here with me, even if he said here with me was what he wanted.

 

But I didn't "steal" anything. Some of you people truly give TOO much credit & power to the cheater. Like they were held against their will.

 

Then you look at someone like myself and you tell me over & over again I was owed no goodbye. Because I don't deserve closure & to move on. Because what I did deserve was to sit here in the dark, awaiting his return & divorce like he said & have to figure it out one day that he wasn't coming back. I DESERVE that, for being such a bad girl.

 

Ok.. I am not looking for validation from any of you. I am TELLING YOU that right wrong, or otherwise I know he should have told me that it was over. Period.

 

I didn't MAKE this man do what he did. I didn't think for him, feel for him. I didn't speak for him. I didn't beg him to tell me he was leaving his marriage.

 

I am sorry for the pain it has caused. But I can not take sole blame for it. Furthermore, I can only take care of myself. And my feelings, which I do have.

 

I know what I should have been told. And it doesn't even have anything to do with what I do or don't deserve. It has to do with what happened between the two of us existed. It took place. The bell can't be unrung. He is where he needs to be & should be. He is doing what is right for him.

 

But he still engrossed himself deeply in an emotional affair. So whether he says nothing out of what is respective towards his wife, or because he is cowardly to tell me we weren't going to have the life together he promised, or both... there is a chunk of his life now in which this lies. Not just now. If you read my story, in 2009. In 2007 and 2008. When we were seeing eachother "without" sex. When I told "him" to go, because our friendship wasn't appropriate, because it was evident there were feelings there.

 

You don't steal feelings freely given. And I was not engaged in an ongoing affair this time around. He came back into my life and I said "I will want all of you. I won't have you married." We messed up. We talked & saw eachother for a few months when I should have said "not until you are divorced". I take responsibility. But, I was only talking to him as he told me "I'm going to divorce".

 

I loved him. I loved him more than I've ever loved anyone. I wanted everything he told me. Did I "deserve" a goodbye? Do I "deserve" closure?

 

I deserved to know. To know sooner than I have from figuring it all out. I could have went through this sooner to move on from it.

 

I don't mourn a 3 month affair. I mourn someone whom has been a part of my life in some way for 20 years.

 

And I am not asking permission from anyone here to mourn it.

 

I never meant to suggest that you didn't "deserve" closure. It's more likely that the MM was put in the position of realizing that while you "deserved" closure, his BW also "deserved" that he not commit infidelity and had NC with you.

 

In previous interactions between you and him, his BW did not get what she "deserved", and this time it was you who did not get what you "deserved" from him. It's despicable I agree and so hurtful and of course you will grieve over it.

 

On this thread people have effectively told you this time and time again, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge this very valid point. That what his BW "deserved" was inconsistent with what you "deserved" and he made a decision even though he must have been totally torn by it.

[SidLyon]

The bold especially. He may or may not have been torn. I know men who weren't. The fact they were about to lose their wife drove all concern for OW from their minds. As it should IMHO.

 

I speak from some experience here. My H has consistently said that what I bolded above happened to him, although he described it as love for her evaporating.

 

This doesn't mean that he didn't appreciate that the OW deserved some closure. As a BW I indicated to him that given he was pleading to stay with me, a brief e-mail to her explaining that a d-day had occurred (otherwise she might not have known), that the A was over and that he was staying with me, was appropriate.

 

It doesn't change the fact that had I insisted that I "deserved" that he had no further contact with her, then I'm fairly sure he would have been "torn" about this as he knew that common decency would say she did deserve an explanation for his disappearance.

 

There may be men who are not torn and don't acknowledge that it is right to give the OW an explanation, but my H wasn't one of them. We have no way of knowing about the MM of the OP in this thread.

[Silly_Girl]

He isn't what you stole. Her dignity and her right to decide her own future is what you stole

 

Of course she didn't. That intimates the man was an automaton, programmed by the OW! In fact his actions are key here, not the OW. As for dignity, she (the wife) may feel perfectly happy with her dignity. She may be satisfied she conducted herself in a dignified manner and your assumption as to the status of her dignity is merely pity. Pity that she may not appreciate, who knows?

[spice4life]

I completely agree with sidlyon; no one has any way of knowing what is going on with the MM this thread is about. It could be anything and saying what you "think" he is doing, saying or thinking as "most likely" is just a projection of what's going on in your own life. Everyone is different.

 

MFH, when a MM throws his OW under the bus after d-day and claims to hate her or says she was nothing, a stalker blah blah blah is par for the course around here. Sure, there are some who are remorseful (once the affair fog clears) and are truly trying to make it up to their wives, but at the same time there are plenty of others who do it to save their own a** and will say anything to not be thrown out. There is plenty of evidence here in this forum of the latter. Plus, until the affair fog clears anything he says should be suspect. Only time, full disclosure followed by transparency and consistency through actions are the indicators of true remorse. Anything else is nothing more than cya. Period.

[SidLyon]

Of course she didn't. That intimates the man was an automaton, programmed by the OW! In fact his actions are key here, not the OW. As for dignity, she (the wife) may feel perfectly happy with her dignity. She may be satisfied she conducted herself in a dignified manner and your assumption as to the status of her dignity is merely pity. Pity that she may not appreciate, who knows?

 

We probably can't be totally sure what this BW felt like given that she isn't posting here.

 

I know I felt for a very long time, that the OW inserted herself into my life and definitely helped leach the happiness and joy out of it for me. Of course I felt my H had also robbed me of something too, and that he was the key instigator.

 

While I tried to and wanted to behave in a dignified manner towards the OW I know I didn't quite manage it, at least not in my thoughts. I assume she thought I was being dignified on the single occasion I met her because she tried to tell me I was a good person compared to her. Unfortunately subsequent e-mail exchanges between us degenerated after she tried to arrange to meet my H, 6 months after d-day.

 

Dignity notwithstanding I would imagine it's quite common for a BW to feel that an OW has robbed her of something.

[Spark1111]

I NEVER accepted my H attempting to minimize his OW on any level, and no intelligent, confident woman would allow that either.

 

IT IS ONE MORE LIE and when he tried to do what he thought would appease me, I called him on it.

 

The secret to successfully reconciling is NO MORE LYING.

 

With that being said, he was given an ultimatum: Put your azz where your mouth is. Either me or her, now. make a decision, choose commit and let's all move on today.

 

He knew full well that I meant it. did they have closure? maybe. I cannot imagine what he could have said to let her down gently, but I assume he attempted it.

 

she should have been hurling plates around his head, as I was in my kitchen. THAT would have got his attention.

 

But what is it that would make you fell better? What could he say that would be true?

 

the script usually says he wants his kids and you commiserate. They rarely if ever apologize. they tell you they care for you, BUT....Or, they want to work on the marriage...NONE of which should appease an intelligent woman cuz it's still more romantic BS.

 

truth and closure come back to you, as it does for all of us.

[Tenacity]

We probably can't be totally sure what this BW felt like given that she isn't posting here.

 

I know I felt for a very long time, that the OW inserted herself into my life and definitely helped leach the happiness and joy out of it for me. Of course I felt my H had also robbed me of something too, and that he was the key instigator.

 

While I tried to and wanted to behave in a dignified manner towards the OW I know I didn't quite manage it, at least not in my thoughts. I assume she thought I was being dignified on the single occasion I met her because she tried to tell me I was a good person compared to her. Unfortunately subsequent e-mail exchanges between us degenerated after she tried to arrange to meet my H, 6 months after d-day.

 

Dignity notwithstanding I would imagine it's quite common for a BW to feel that an OW has robbed her of something.

 

Can we please also state that not all OW do this?

[stevie_23]

MeandMyself wrote that I stole something from someone (the BS)

 

Listen, I have written quite a few times now that I know my part in the affair & I know it was wrong. I acknowledge what he owes his wife and their marriage. I acknowledge why he is where he is instead of here with me, even if he said here with me was what he wanted.

 

But I didn't "steal" anything. Some of you people truly give TOO much credit & power to the cheater. Like they were held against their will.

 

Then you look at someone like myself and you tell me over & over again I was owed no goodbye. Because I don't deserve closure & to move on. Because what I did deserve was to sit here in the dark, awaiting his return & divorce like he said & have to figure it out one day that he wasn't coming back. I DESERVE that, for being such a bad girl.

 

Ok.. I am not looking for validation from any of you. I am TELLING YOU that right wrong, or otherwise I know he should have told me that it was over. Period.

 

I didn't MAKE this man do what he did. I didn't think for him, feel for him. I didn't speak for him. I didn't beg him to tell me he was leaving his marriage.

 

I am sorry for the pain it has caused. But I can not take sole blame for it. Furthermore, I can only take care of myself. And my feelings, which I do have.

 

I know what I should have been told. And it doesn't even have anything to do with what I do or don't deserve. It has to do with what happened between the two of us existed. It took place. The bell can't be unrung. He is where he needs to be & should be. He is doing what is right for him.

 

But he still engrossed himself deeply in an emotional affair. So whether he says nothing out of what is respective towards his wife, or because he is cowardly to tell me we weren't going to have the life together he promised, or both... there is a chunk of his life now in which this lies. Not just now. If you read my story, in 2009. In 2007 and 2008. When we were seeing eachother "without" sex. When I told "him" to go, because our friendship wasn't appropriate, because it was evident there were feelings there.

 

You don't steal feelings freely given. And I was not engaged in an ongoing affair this time around. He came back into my life and I said "I will want all of you. I won't have you married." We messed up. We talked & saw eachother for a few months when I should have said "not until you are divorced". I take responsibility. But, I was only talking to him as he told me "I'm going to divorce".

 

I loved him. I loved him more than I've ever loved anyone. I wanted everything he told me. Did I "deserve" a goodbye? Do I "deserve" closure?

 

I deserved to know. To know sooner than I have from figuring it all out. I could have went through this sooner to move on from it.

 

I don't mourn a 3 month affair. I mourn someone whom has been a part of my life in some way for 20 years.

 

And I am not asking permission from anyone here to mourn it.

 

This is AMAZING, and exactly how I feel in my situation as well.

[stevie_23]

Do you think it's the OW's responsibility to take the opportunity of cheating away from the MM?

[stevie_23]

But see, I don't understand that line of thinking. Yes, you want him and he wants you, but to then step inside THEIR relationship to tell his wife about you two? No. Just...no.

 

I consider it only the man's responsibility to tell HIS wife about HIS other relationship.

[stevie_23]

But I don't consider the OW is stepping into anyone's marriage. She is having a relationship with HIM, not with THEM. Their marriage is between them, and the OW and the MM's relationship is totally separate from that marriage.

[stevie_23]

Were you the BS or OW, tenacity? I want to read your story. I've heard a few mentions of it around here but haven't read it yet. Can you link it here?

[Tenacity]

Were you the BS or OW, tenacity? I want to read your story. I've heard a few mentions of it around here but haven't read it yet. Can you link it here?

 

Thank you.

 

My story goes back for many years. I was involved for many years. I posted it here under this name and under another one prior to 2011. I also lost my daughter who was his child, about three years ago when she was born prematurely at 23 weeks. At that time and for a long time afterward he did not acknowledge her (he still barely does).

 

I am not innocent. I started out dating a man who was married but was separated for many months and living on his own, and after several years in, he decided to go back to his W. I would not have dated or been involved with a man who I thought was in another relationship; but when it was clear he was staying married, I did not get out and stayed in because of his promises that he would get out. First because I believed him, later because of my daughter too.

[stevie_23]

Ah good, you're still here. Please don't leave LS. Don't leave a place you get support (mostly) from simply because of one, or a few, individuals who make it unpleasant for others with their biased judgement.

 

Anyway, I actually went and read your story (your first thread anyway), and I feel there are some similarities, just a few, to my story.

 

I am the OW (as well as a WS) in my most recent ex situation. I don't feel guilt towards his wife. I DID at first. He wasn't married when we got together, but they were a couple. He said he cared for her but didn't love her deeply and knew even before he met me that they would only be temporary. That his care for her began out of obligation to "save" her company and put her kids through college. So I thought...if he didn't really care that much, then it was ok for me to let these developing feelings flourish (and I thought still, at that time, I was "safe" because I thought I was gay, he was 27 years older than me, lived a billion miles away in another country and both of us were with other people).

 

Anyway...yeah. Once you're in love though, everything kind of goes out the window. You need them. You become a shadow of who you once were, just so you can get ANYTHING from them even when you know it's slipping away.

 

My ex-MM got married 6 months ago...he left me for a month after that, not because he got married (he didn't want to. There were other circumstances involved), he didn't care about that, but because of health issues and such. He felt he couldn't be the husband he so wanted to be for me, and that we could now never truly be together properly in person, like we'd planned before.

 

I persisted and he came back to me, and we continued on, but...so many things got in the way. His wife...his time restrictions...and I think his feelings changed because of that, gradually. I hung on way too long, and now, 6 weeks after he finally left me for good (with no explanation at all at first. For the first 8 days I knew absolutely NOTHING. He just left. Then he wrote a song basically informing me "it's done", and then finally he replied to one of my many messages and told me what was going on), I am left a bit of an emotional wreck.

 

And I know it's my own fault. I don't regret loving him. I don't regret our time together. I don't think he is a bad person. I think our situation was STUPID, that WE were stupid for letting ourselves get in so damn deeply and fall so in love, and now...it's all...gone. And I still have my beautiful real life long term partner who never hurt me...not like him, who hurt me more than anyone else ever has in my entire life.

 

Anyway...again, don't walk away from this place because of someone who doesn't care to understand other people's situations.

[SidLyon]

Can we please also state that not all OW do this?

 

I was speaking of my own feelings about what the OW did; ie have an affair with my husband. I can guarantee that I would have felt this way about all and any OW. I can agree that not all BW might feel the same way as me.

[Silly_Girl]

No SG she was robbed of her dignity and humiliated by what went on behind her back. It has nothing to do with how she behaved. I don't think pity is appropriate. I'd say shame for what was done to her by BoTH parties would be appropriate.

 

How do you KNOW how she felt? You shouldn't project that stuff on to someone.

 

Seeing this attitude, in this forum, really irks me.