Proper Judgement?

[pureinheart]

This is an issue that has confused me for sometime now, and meant as a very serious question that sincerely seeks wisdom, knowledge, and understanding.

 

Thinking this falls under the lines of gossip too, along with self righteousness and character assasination (sp?).

 

Case in point: I was friends with a VERY judgemental individual who maligned others constantly. One time her and I were gossiping about a friend of mine, I mean just going at it concerning a weakness she had...I had overcome this weakness and "felt" powerful and justified.

 

Well, God was not happy. Soon after this I was back into said weakness worse than ever.

 

This has happened many times in my life. When I judge another person too harshly without justification, am taken through that particular thing forthe purpose of understanding. I don't want to "understand" anything like this anymore, with good reason.

 

What is the proper way to be? What type of judgement is against the will of God and what is not sin? We are supposed to be fruit inspectors...so what is that fine line that takes me into sin?

[bentnotbroken]

From my understanding we are to judge actions as right or wrong...but we aren't equipped nor capable of handing out judgement. Judgement implies the handing down punishment for said action. We can't do that unless we are willing to punish ourselves for all our wrong actions.

Edited January 17, 2013 by bentnotbroken

[venusianx13]

I think it all depends upon your intention. If it's selfishly motivated judgment, then it's imbalanced and destructive to both yourself and the accused.

[M30USA]

When I judge another person too harshly without justification, am taken through that particular thing forthe purpose of understanding. I don't want to "understand" anything like this anymore, with good reason.

 

I used to be very harsh on people who got divorced or had troubled marriages. Until it happened to me.

[pureinheart]

I don't know if you'll get any answers that will adequatly reflect what God expects as he isn't in this forum.

 

But... Here is a list of the ten commandments. Since He has already stated these are rules we are to live by, I would assume that "judging" someone who has violated one or more of these rules would be A-okay. IMO, judging someone on superficial things such as hair style, choice of attire, make/model of car, etc. are the things we should avoid.

 

Interestingly, the one thing on this forum that people whine about being judged for is commandment #7.

 

These are ALL excellent responses, and exactly the type of understanding that I was looking for...thank you:)

 

LOL, before being saved, of which there are parts that cause me to believe that in some sense I was always "saved", although there was a definite transition...just don't quite understand that aspect...anyway, had the Ten Commandments as an "ornament" in my home, went down the list ..yep, did that, did that one too, then got to one and thought *hey, there's one that doesn't apply*...God showed me that I broke every single Commandment.

 

Jesus takes this to an even higher level when He stated that if we have done it in our hearts, we've "sinned".

 

1 Bold- how far can we judge this without entering into a place of sin, if it is sin at all. I'm not asking the right question here, because I do lack understanding as to how far we take this...Bent seems to answer this question, just want to know what you think.

 

I've never been one to be superficial in that manor, but have been superficial in other ways, which is no better actually.

 

 

 

From my understanding we are to judge actions as right or wrong...but we aren't equipped nor capable of handing out judgement. Judgement implies the handing down punishment for said action. We can't do that unless we are willing to punish ourselves for all our wrong actions.

 

Correct me if I read you wrong, this would be acts of vengance. Bent, I sat back and watched a lot of injustice and had to suck it up, sitting on my hands at times wanting to get "them" back...but didn't and knew if I tried, God would deal with me.

 

Something has changed though and it's not very becoming. If some of the same things were happening now, I'd be different. There is a desire to have what I had back then in the area of reasoning and being rational.

 

That is the purpose of this thread, to get back what I had and figure out where things turned so wrong in the area of hanging onto things, such as anger, bitterness...I thought I was free of these things, but recent revelation dictates otherwise.

 

Where did I quit taking personal inventory, thus playing "God" in many situations, even if most of it was in my "heart" and not outward.

 

Thank you so much Bent, this is meat you gave here...wow, just awesome!

 

Just as a general principle, if you're tearing down somebody else just to feel good about yourself then that isn't a good sign.

 

Does it help you in any way? Does it help them? What good comes of it? Perhaps try to reflect on your thoughts and actions throught that lens.

 

Priddy simple isn't it! Excellent questions that dig deep into the motive behind the motive...more Sticky notes for the wall! NO lie BTW.

 

QJ, just so discontented with many things that ARE out of my control...releasing it verbally is not working anymore because a heart change is needed bigtime.

 

Again, you guys gave me exactly what I am seeking:D

[Keenly]

The question is really do you want to live YOUR life and be happy or do you want to be told how you should live and behave . Sounds like the latter.

[pureinheart]

I think it all depends upon your intention. If it's selfishly motivated judgment, then it's imbalanced and destructive to both yourself and the accused.

 

You know V, sometimes the intentions are not destructive and sometimes they are, and am looking for a "pattern" if you will, to cut it off before it starts.

 

With some it is selfish and the motivation would be perceived betrayal.

 

People will always fail us, and not trying to cut any particular person down, it's just truth that I've learned and it is opinion. Basically I don't want to be a hater anymore. Yes people will hurt us deeply at times and their intentions may be on purpose, but that is on them. My failing is to fall into that trap of hating (my definition of hating is being bitter and just a plain B to the person I have perceived to wrong me).

[pureinheart]

The question is really do you want to live YOUR life and be happy or do you want to be told how you should live and behave . Sounds like the latter.

 

You have an excellent point here...I'd say both if that makes sense. I want advice on the right thing to do and usually when somone says something that clicks and bares witness with my spirit, it's important to listen. Having been with LS for sometime now, I've seen a lot of wisdom in some of the forums

 

Yep, that's the goal, to live my life and be happy, it is definitely a process. K- have reached the end of "me" with certain things, and there are questions in which I've tried to use my own thinking, but found it was misguided.

 

Have you ever been in the place with certain matters in which both "sides" sound reasonable? Yes, with certain things there are middle grounds, and others with absolutes.

[bentnotbroken]

Correct me if I read you wrong, this would be acts of vengance. Bent, I sat back and watched a lot of injustice and had to suck it up, sitting on my hands at times wanting to get "them" back...but didn't and knew if I tried, God would deal with me.

 

Something has changed though and it's not very becoming. If some of the same things were happening now, I'd be different. There is a desire to have what I had back then in the area of reasoning and being rational.

 

That is the purpose of this thread, to get back what I had and figure out where things turned so wrong in the area of hanging onto things, such as anger, bitterness...I thought I was free of these things, but recent revelation dictates otherwise.

 

Where did I quit taking personal inventory, thus playing "God" in many situations, even if most of it was in my "heart" and not outward.

 

Thank you so much Bent, this is meat you gave here...wow, just awesome!

 

 

We all at some point stop taking personal inventory. We get comfortable with the progress we think we've made (possibly pat ourselves on the back:o for doing a "good" job) and while doing that forget to look at that block we are about to trip over. If you gain power over one evil another is right there to take it's place. I believe this happens because we will continually need to be pruned so that we can grow....check that...if we desire to grow. The hard part (which looks like you are aware of) is recognizing something is off and we need to figure out what it is.

[pureinheart]

I used to be very harsh on people who got divorced or had troubled marriages. Until it happened to me.

 

I've been harsh so much that is is ridiculous. When God says that the tongue is the most destructive part of the body, through personal experience believe it.

 

One might say to just stop what you are doing/saying, and yes this can be accomplished for a time, but with me it comes back in full force, so this says that there is a serious problem that needs help and attention.

 

My God M30, stuff will come out of my mouth, and while it's coming out thinking, "it's time to shut up now", knowing it's very shakey ground- the Word says that what comes out of the mouth is what's in the heart of an individual.

[pie2]

Case in point: I was friends with a VERY judgemental individual who maligned others constantly. One time her and I were gossiping about a friend of mine, I mean just going at it concerning a weakness she had...I had overcome this weakness and "felt" powerful and justified.

 

I can relate so much. It's so easy not to take the high road, and God makes sure we have plenty of opportunities to get it right .

 

Over the last few years at work, which is an environment dominated by women, I realize how easy it is to fall into gossip (and judging can go right along with it). But I definitely feel like I know in my heart when it's gossip, and when I am actually concerned about a person's salvation. And more often than not, my concern for someone's ultimate salvation leads me to prayer for that person, empathy for their situation, and patience. Whereas unrighteous judgement leads to ugly feelings of insecurity, anger towards that person, and "hating" the sinner, and not just the sin.

 

I'm rambling, and don't really know what I mean! But I relate

[todreaminblue]

I have made so many mistakes in my life I cannot feel comfortable judging anyone, I do however slip up, because i am not perfect I dont gossip though if i have a problem with someone i would rather face off with them...

 

I have judged someone recently wihtout facing off....i was tempted too but read an article where approaching an abusive spouse is nto a good idea, a friends boyfriend he beats on her scares her silly, threatens her, i have told her that he isnt right for her and that she should leave...is that judging?...she told him everythign i said probably anyway...considering he hates me and probably wants to bash my head in, i guess that is my backlash to deal with from judging.......I still stand by the fact she should leave...for her....and her kids..i am not fond of him, he needs help.deb

[skydiveaddict]

We are supposed to be fruit inspectors...so what is that fine line that takes me into sin?

 

Ahh. It's easy. You just go to confession. A priest can tell you.

[TheFinalWord]

This is an issue that has confused me for sometime now, and meant as a very serious question that sincerely seeks wisdom, knowledge, and understanding.

 

Thinking this falls under the lines of gossip too, along with self righteousness and character assasination (sp?).

 

Case in point: I was friends with a VERY judgemental individual who maligned others constantly. One time her and I were gossiping about a friend of mine, I mean just going at it concerning a weakness she had...I had overcome this weakness and "felt" powerful and justified.

 

Well, God was not happy. Soon after this I was back into said weakness worse than ever.

 

This has happened many times in my life. When I judge another person too harshly without justification, am taken through that particular thing forthe purpose of understanding. I don't want to "understand" anything like this anymore, with good reason.

 

What is the proper way to be? What type of judgement is against the will of God and what is not sin? We are supposed to be fruit inspectors...so what is that fine line that takes me into sin?

 

Good questions!

 

Once again, quickjoe is providing good teaching.

 

Small manifesto coming up; this is a bit scattered. Swamped right now, but wanted to give some thoughts...

 

From a biblical perspective, there is a difference between judging and condemning. To judge is to "separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose". To condemn is to assign a sentence to the verdict "to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment". Most commentaries about Matthew 7:1, show that this form of judging Christ is expounding is "to assume the office of a judge" which is the full act of both rendering a verdict and administrating a sentence, which as bentnotbroken showed we should not do.

 

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

The bible is chalk full of wisdom on how to judge and discern. What we do with that judgment is another matter.

 

For example, here is a case where Christ asked a Pharisee to judge.

 

Jesus Anointed by a Sinful Woman

 

When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.” "Tell me, teacher,” he said. “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.” “You have judged correctly,” Jesus said. Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.” Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

Where we go wrong is using judgment to bolster ourselves, which leads to pride. That is what this Pharisee did; he thought he was more righteous because he kept the Law of Moses. But Christ refuted that haughty spirit and said that if you really were more righteous than this sinner you would have showed more love than the woman of sin (probably a prostitute). A bit of background, it was customary to kiss a guest on the cheek, provide water for his feet, and oil to refresh his face. Basically, this Pharisee was disrespecting Jesus from the get go by not providing these basics. But here a prostitute was doing these things, in a way that excelled even the minimal. There's a lot more to that story, but you can see that Christ said to judge and showed the difference to judgment that leads to pride and a slanderous spirit (I'm holier than thou) and judgment that the woman had to acknowledge her sin and seek forgiveness (God is holier than thou), which manifests in love.

 

Another story, which Christ used (important to know that tax collectors were the worst of the worst; considered some what like a crooked politician today):

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

Another example, where Christ shows the difference between judging for righteousness and judging for condemnation.

 

Jesus answered them, “I did one work, and you all marvel at it. Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man's whole body well? Do not judge by appearances, but judge with righteous judgment.”

 

Here Christ was showing that to maintain the Law of Moses they will go ahead with circumcision on the Sabbath Day, effectively removing a part of the body and they judged that as good. But when Christ puts back together a whole body on the Sabbath, they judged that as bad and breaking the Sabbath. They were judging Jesus with the intent to condemn as opposed to judging with the intention of seeking God's mercy.

So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

As Christians, we are to judge and love simultaneously; not judge and condemn. What that means is we acknowledge when something does not align with God's Word, but we do not use that as a justification to prop ourselves up, to slander someone else, or to act like God and condemn them. Vengeance belongs to the Lord and only He has the right to release and the right to condemn.

 

Why? Because we are no more holy than anyone else; if someone is forgiven, they will know what that means. And those that have been forgiven much will love much: "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me, I once was lost, but now I'm found, was blind but now I see". They will not be quick to put down others "But by the grace of God, there go I" because they know how much God has forgiven them

 

For a Christians, we need to use God's Word to judge. Not our opinion, which is tainted by sin, but allow God's Word to edify us.

 

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

 

Does that mean unbelievers will not judge believers? No. But if we walk in the spirit, we will not be judged by God, which is the judgment that matters, because there is no law against the works of the spirit.

 

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

Also, if a man is walking in the Word and the Spirit, he can judge all spiritual things. Not because he is so great (again attaching pride to judgment which leads to a fault finding and condemning heart), but because he has access to and has humbled himself to the Word of God and the Spirit of Wisdom--the Holy Spirit--and that is the key to preventing pride from gaining knowledge of God, humility; "poor in spirit" as that theme keeps popping up here lately

O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts. I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word. I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me. How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.And if he is living by the spirit, he can be judged by no man because God's judgements are above all things.

 

The reason he is judged of no man is because when the believer is walking in the Spirit, and is judged by unbeliever he is no longer the one being judged; the unbeliever is judging God Himself.

 

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

 

When walking in the Spirit, the ego also goes. A believer walking in the spirit when judged will not take it personally, because it is not his ego that is being attacked, but the ego of Christ.

 

Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

 

Peter understood this when judged by unbelievers for preaching Christ.

 

Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John replied, “Which is right in God’s eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”

 

Paul also understood this:

 

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

 

In regards to judgment, it is not our job to be on the lookout constantly judging others. Let God change people; it is a big relief when we stop carrying what God has not called us to carry. Give a word of encouragement and if they seek counsel, provide counsel from the Word.

 

It is definitely not an okay thing to slander and gossip. Paul said not to be a idle and a busybody, but to work hard so we really should not have time for it. We should not be gossiping on the job (I just judged) because that is stealing time from our bosses. Thievery comes in many forms Yikes, haha God's Word lays the heart bare and allows us to discern underlying sin and not just the outward manifestation.

 

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

And really we should be doing all of our work as unto the Lord, and not unto men.

 

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

 

Judging our own hearts is very important to ensure our relationship with God is right; the bible is a mirror. That is really the power of judging we have received; to give us direction in life--not to use the wisdom of God to slam on others. When we point a finger, there's four more pointing back at us

[pie2]

...stuff will come out of my mouth, and while it's coming out thinking, "it's time to shut up now", knowing it's very shakey ground- the Word says that what comes out of the mouth is what's in the heart of an individual.

 

lol

 

yep, been there! I'm so glad you started this thread.

 

Paul said not to be a idle and a busybody, but to work hard so we really should not have time for it.

 

Especially us women! Men can definitely have their gossip too, don't get me wrong. But I notice that women really can be pretty ruthless.

Edited January 18, 2013 by pie2

[TheFinalWord]

lol

 

yep, been there! I'm so glad you started this thread.

 

 

 

Especially us women! Men can definitely have their gossip too, don't get me wrong. But I notice that women really can be pretty ruthless.

 

Yes ma'am. Generally speaking, men and women have different areas of weakness. Men to have big egos, women tend to have big mou...er, I won't say it

[pureinheart]

We all at some point stop taking personal inventory. We get comfortable with the progress we think we've made (possibly pat ourselves on the back:o for doing a "good" job) and while doing that forget to look at that block we are about to trip over. If you gain power over one evil another is right there to take it's place. I believe this happens because we will continually need to be pruned so that we can grow....check that...if we desire to grow. The hard part (which looks like you are aware of) is recognizing something is off and we need to figure out what it is.

 

Human nature, what an interesting thing, you hit it:). Thinking we are "there" at certain points, when in all actuality there is the next obsticle to overcome.

 

In my case it is really disturbing. It's like hitting this place of "enlightenment" (whether real or perceived) and then when various situations take place, self-righteouness and undo judgement comes in.

 

With my daughter for instance, there have been many times, mostly recently, that I have said some horrible things in the guise of "truth" and "knowing" what is best for her...there was no love in anything I've said to her recently- why? Because I feel she did me wrong, and have unresolved issues with her dad- resentment possibly.

 

She's traumatised by many things, acting out and doesn't understand it, and it's like I've never been there! The worst part is self-justification for my actions and words...Bent, it is sooooo ugly:(

[TheFinalWord]

Human nature, what an interesting thing, you hit it:). Thinking we are "there" at certain points, when in all actuality there is the next obsticle to overcome.

 

In my case it is really disturbing. It's like hitting this place of "enlightenment" (whether real or perceived) and then when various situations take place, self-righteouness and undo judgement comes in.

 

With my daughter for instance, there have been many times, mostly recently, that I have said some horrible things in the guise of "truth" and "knowing" what is best for her...there was no love in anything I've said to her recently- why? Because I feel she did me wrong, and have unresolved issues with her dad- resentment possibly.

 

She's traumatised by many things, acting out and doesn't understand it, and it's like I've never been there! The worst part is self-justification for my actions and words...Bent, it is sooooo ugly:(

 

I will go into intercessory prayer for you PIH

[pureinheart]

I have made so many mistakes in my life I cannot feel comfortable judging anyone, I do however slip up, because i am not perfect I dont gossip though if i have a problem with someone i would rather face off with them...

 

I have judged someone recently wihtout facing off....i was tempted too but read an article where approaching an abusive spouse is nto a good idea, a friends boyfriend he beats on her scares her silly, threatens her, i have told her that he isnt right for her and that she should leave...is that judging?...she told him everythign i said probably anyway...considering he hates me and probably wants to bash my head in, i guess that is my backlash to deal with from judging.......I still stand by the fact she should leave...for her....and her kids..i am not fond of him, he needs help.deb

 

This might be why this is so bothersome...man if I were to tell you some of the things I've done...well, you would really understand why "I" am the LAST person with the right to condemn ( I read your post TFW and condemn is the proper word in my case).

 

Thank God the gossiping has ceased, man that friend of mine taught me a lesson (along with God) ...this was back in the 80's. Though not off the hook yet:) condemnation is the heavy hitter right now.

 

No Deb, you are saving your friends life...this falls in line with the questions QJ suggested asking ourselves. If you try to talk to him, it would be like talking to a fool because he doesn't sound like he's hit rock bottom yet. This is an escalated form of abuse, and he needs not be round anyone right now.

 

I would suggest that she go to the nearest womans shelter, she wouldn't have to stay there if she has another place to go, but they offer many helps for abused women. She should call the police too and get a R/O.

 

Deb, having been a tomboy coupled with being very onery...well let's just say he's lucky he didn't get stuck with me.

 

Your friend needs help too love, to find out why she stays with such an individual and why she's not fighting back.

 

I can relate so much. It's so easy not to take the high road, and God makes sure we have plenty of opportunities to get it right .

 

Over the last few years at work, which is an environment dominated by women, I realize how easy it is to fall into gossip (and judging can go right along with it). But I definitely feel like I know in my heart when it's gossip, and when I am actually concerned about a person's salvation. And more often than not, my concern for someone's ultimate salvation leads me to prayer for that person, empathy for their situation, and patience. Whereas unrighteous judgement leads to ugly feelings of insecurity, anger towards that person, and "hating" the sinner, and not just the sin.

 

I'm rambling, and don't really know what I mean! But I relate

 

Your not rambling, you make PERFECT sense! Oh Lord, work used to be my escape. I worked with mostly guys and most of them just liked to crack jokes...the majority of the women were going through menopause (and this isn't meant to be a cutdown to women)...it wasn't pretty, God bless them, they felt horrible physically and that wasn't their fault. They fought with each other all of the time because of hot and cold flashes- there was a constant war with the heaters thermostat.

 

Bold- that's the major conviction right there. Ultimately none of the stuff matters, as salvation should be at the forefront, but it's not. Selfishness pure and simple right now and completely out of Gods will...you hit it right there...or you helped me indentify it, or something! Now look who's REALLY rambling!

 

Ahh. It's easy. You just go to confession. A priest can tell you.

 

You know what...I'm going to do that. SDA, I read your response and cracked up, not in a sense of laughing at what you said or you, but the simplicity and lighthearted nature you have.

 

I tell ya, your post was perfect timing because previous posts were so encouraging and targeted and pulled out the REAL issues, giving so much meat, I'll be chewing for days!

 

What a true blessing you all are:D

[pureinheart]

Good questions!

 

Once again, quickjoe is providing good teaching.

 

Small manifesto coming up; this is a bit scattered. Swamped right now, but wanted to give some thoughts...

 

From a biblical perspective, there is a difference between judging and condemning. To judge is to "separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose". To condemn is to assign a sentence to the verdict "to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment". Most commentaries about Matthew 7:1, show that this form of judging Christ is expounding is "to assume the office of a judge" which is the full act of both rendering a verdict and administrating a sentence, which as bentnotbroken showed we should not do.

 

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

The bible is chalk full of wisdom on how to judge and discern. What we do with that judgment is another matter.

 

For example, here is a case where Christ asked a Pharisee to judge.

 

Jesus Anointed by a Sinful Woman

 

When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.” "Tell me, teacher,” he said. “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.” “You have judged correctly,” Jesus said. Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.” Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

Where we go wrong is using judgment to bolster ourselves, which leads to pride. That is what this Pharisee did; he thought he was more righteous because he kept the Law of Moses. But Christ refuted that haughty spirit and said that if you really were more righteous than this sinner you would have showed more love than the woman of sin (probably a prostitute). A bit of background, it was customary to kiss a guest on the cheek, provide water for his feet, and oil to refresh his face. Basically, this Pharisee was disrespecting Jesus from the get go by not providing these basics. But here a prostitute was doing these things, in a way that excelled even the minimal. There's a lot more to that story, but you can see that Christ said to judge and showed the difference to judgment that leads to pride and a slanderous spirit (I'm holier than thou) and judgment that the woman had to acknowledge her sin and seek forgiveness (God is holier than thou), which manifests in love.

 

Another story, which Christ used (important to know that tax collectors were the worst of the worst; considered some what like a crooked politician today):

 

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

Another example, where Christ shows the difference between judging for righteousness and judging for condemnation.

 

Jesus answered them, “I did one work, and you all marvel at it. Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man's whole body well? Do not judge by appearances, but judge with righteous judgment.”

 

Here Christ was showing that to maintain the Law of Moses they will go ahead with circumcision on the Sabbath Day, effectively removing a part of the body and they judged that as good. But when Christ puts back together a whole body on the Sabbath, they judged that as bad and breaking the Sabbath. They were judging Jesus with the intent to condemn as opposed to judging with the intention of seeking God's mercy.

 

So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

As Christians, we are to judge and love simultaneously; not judge and condemn. What that means is we acknowledge when something does not align with God's Word, but we do not use that as a justification to prop ourselves up, to slander someone else, or to act like God and condemn them. Vengeance belongs to the Lord and only He has the right to release and the right to condemn.

 

Why? Because we are no more holy than anyone else; if someone is forgiven, they will know what that means. And those that have been forgiven much will love much: "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me, I once was lost, but now I'm found, was blind but now I see". They will not be quick to put down others "But by the grace of God, there go I" because they know how much God has forgiven them

 

For a Christians, we need to use God's Word to judge. Not our opinion, which is tainted by sin, but allow God's Word to edify us.

 

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

 

Does that mean unbelievers will not judge believers? No. But if we walk in the spirit, we will not be judged by God, which is the judgment that matters, because there is no law against the works of the spirit.

 

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

Also, if a man is walking in the Word and the Spirit, he can judge all spiritual things. Not because he is so great (again attaching pride to judgment which leads to a fault finding and condemning heart), but because he has access to and has humbled himself to the Word of God and the Spirit of Wisdom--the Holy Spirit--and that is the key to preventing pride from gaining knowledge of God, humility; "poor in spirit" as that theme keeps popping up here lately

 

O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts. I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word. I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me. How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.And if he is living by the spirit, he can be judged by no man because God's judgements are above all things.

 

The reason he is judged of no man is because when the believer is walking in the Spirit, and is judged by unbeliever he is no longer the one being judged; the unbeliever is judging God Himself.

 

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

 

When walking in the Spirit, the ego also goes. A believer walking in the spirit when judged will not take it personally, because it is not his ego that is being attacked, but the ego of Christ.

 

Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

 

Peter understood this when judged by unbelievers for preaching Christ.

 

Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John replied, “Which is right in God’s eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”

 

Paul also understood this:

 

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

 

In regards to judgment, it is not our job to be on the lookout constantly judging others. Let God change people; it is a big relief when we stop carrying what God has not called us to carry. Give a word of encouragement and if they seek counsel, provide counsel from the Word.

 

It is definitely not an okay thing to slander and gossip. Paul said not to be a idle and a busybody, but to work hard so we really should not have time for it. We should not be gossiping on the job (I just judged) because that is stealing time from our bosses. Thievery comes in many forms Yikes, haha God's Word lays the heart bare and allows us to discern underlying sin and not just the outward manifestation.

 

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

And really we should be doing all of our work as unto the Lord, and not unto men.

 

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

 

Judging our own hearts is very important to ensure our relationship with God is right; the bible is a mirror. That is really the power of judging we have received; to give us direction in life--not to use the wisdom of God to slam on others. When we point a finger, there's four more pointing back at us

 

Thank you so much TFW, and being so busy, I thank you for your valuable time and being obedient during rough schedules!

 

Condemnation...the fingers pointing back, this is on a spiritual level and there are a bunch right now.

 

Back about 15 years ago was living with this guy, the relationship was sooo toxic (want to say that I'm not cutting down those living together, it's just not for me). After confiding to some very good friends, both of them told me I was out of the will of God for my life and if I didn't leave, I would die. These were prophetic warnings BTW and there was a definite truth to what they were saying. I was dying, literally...weighed about 115 LB's soaking wet (130 to 140 is normal weight for my build).

 

While praying for a friend that was contemplating a particular action, my prayers were going NOWHERE, saw them bounce off the ceiling...that was tooooo weird. In one week was moved back to my place...I had tried to sell it and couldn't give it away! God IS good. (not sure why this story was shared, but was really compelled to)

 

God quickly began to reveal Himself through signs, wonders and miracles (am not speaking of cheap parlor tricks..honest to God miracles)...there are just too many to list. I grew leaps and bounds. Now am not even a shadow of that person.

 

Thinking this was a cleansing, or dry spell that Christians can go through from time to time...but dude, thinking I'm straight up backslidden...saw your post of interceding for me, you see it don't you? Oh Lord no, not again...

Edited January 18, 2013 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

I will go into intercessory prayer for you PIH

 

((((((((((hugs)))))))))) and thank you soooo much...thinking it is much needed because some of my prayers are not getting through...again:(

 

Just want to say thank you to all you guys again, thank you for allowing this release ... really can't talk to my family because they depend on me and are busy and too overwhelmed themselves right now...also I have walls of protection up and it's really liberating to be able to lower them with you guys...God Bless You All:)

[skydiveaddict]

You know what...I'm going to do that. SDA, I read your response and cracked up, not in a sense of laughing at what you said or you, but the simplicity and lighthearted nature you have.

 

You really should though. Remember the authority Christ gave the apostles (and only them, who have passed it down to His Bishops and priests in John 22:23): "...22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained..."

Edited January 18, 2013 by skydiveaddict

[venusianx13]

You know V, sometimes the intentions are not destructive and sometimes they are, and am looking for a "pattern" if you will, to cut it off before it starts.

 

With some it is selfish and the motivation would be perceived betrayal.

 

People will always fail us, and not trying to cut any particular person down, it's just truth that I've learned and it is opinion. Basically I don't want to be a hater anymore. Yes people will hurt us deeply at times and their intentions may be on purpose, but that is on them. My failing is to fall into that trap of hating (my definition of hating is being bitter and just a plain B to the person I have perceived to wrong me).

 

 

Feelings and perceptions are subjective, not objective...they belong to no one but the perceiver. I watch my mind a lot...I've been trained in this. I TRY to become very mindful when I start to feel myself becoming less patient, getting irritated while driving (i.e. repressed, internal road rage, I guess you could say, lol) or the feeling of being in a hurry with no good reason, and feeling like time and/or life is just passing me by without stopping to enjoy the positive moments. When I fall into these patterns of thought, I find that I judge others much more harshly, and it sends me further down the rabbit hole, if you will. So, in a nutshell, it is possible, and helpful, to step back and watch your mind. I don't always remember to do this, but it is helpful when I do.

[M30USA]

I always think when we judge others, we are always judging through the lens of our own bias's, and applying our own standards onto the lives of other people who may not have the same expectations etc. It's natural to judge people, and to start forming opinions about people/situations based off of those judgments, but we must always remember that it is their life, not yours, or mine or anyone else's.

 

I think you know when you've crossed a line when you feel bad about it. You don't need a god to tell you when to stop, you need to employ some self-control. Learn to work on a "does this person's actions/words adversely affect me in any way, or do I just disagree with them?" Are your words of judgment going to help anything, or are you just saying it because it makes you feel satisfied you said it?

 

Sometimes, we pass judgment on people to help them. Like, if you know a close friend is heading down a dead-end road, or a destructive spiral, we may try and stop them, or judge their choices in leading them that way. The important thing is intention and motivation. I had a "friend" once who made out that she was trying to help me, by stopping me seeing a guy that was blatantly a jerk, but she threw judgments at me that only furthered her cause to push me away, and she ended up trying to turn a lot of people against me because she had judged my choices, and decided I was a wrong'un. Later, she could claim it was all for my own good, once the guy was out of the picture. Truth was, her intentions weren't to help me. They were to make her opinion known, and give her a sense of satisfaction that she was right, and I was wrong, which isolated me from my circle of friends. Whilst I believe she started out with the right intentions, she ended up doing more harm and causing more pain than she was trying alleviate/prevent. This same woman would later do the same with several of my friends, until eventually all of that circle caught on and left her. Judgmental people can be poisonous.

 

Before you pass judgment on people, remember that unless it adversely affects you or someone else, their life is truly nothing to do with you. One day, it could come back to bite you in the rear. A kind, supportive word is more useful than a judgmental one, and sometimes, we all need to learn to stay the f out of other people's business.

 

I'll go with that. The only part I disagree with is that "we don't need a god" to tell us this. I believe it's God who has imparted our conscience into us, which is a reflection of his character and image. This applies to non-believers as much as it does to believers.

[TheFinalWord]

Thank you so much TFW, and being so busy, I thank you for your valuable time and being obedient during rough schedules!

 

Anything for you PIH I mean that!

 

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

 

Condemnation...the fingers pointing back, this is on a spiritual level and there are a bunch right now.

 

Back about 15 years ago was living with this guy, the relationship was sooo toxic (want to say that I'm not cutting down those living together, it's just not for me). After confiding to some very good friends, both of them told me I was out of the will of God for my life and if I didn't leave, I would die. These were prophetic warnings BTW and there was a definite truth to what they were saying. I was dying, literally...weighed about 115 LB's soaking wet (130 to 140 is normal weight for my build).

 

While praying for a friend that was contemplating a particular action, my prayers were going NOWHERE, saw them bounce off the ceiling...that was tooooo weird. In one week was moved back to my place...I had tried to sell it and couldn't give it away! God IS good. (not sure why this story was shared, but was really compelled to)

 

God quickly began to reveal Himself through signs, wonders and miracles (am not speaking of cheap parlor tricks..honest to God miracles)...there are just too many to list. I grew leaps and bounds. Now am not even a shadow of that person.

 

Thinking this was a cleansing, or dry spell that Christians can go through from time to time...but dude, thinking I'm straight up backslidden...saw your post of interceding for me, you see it don't you? Oh Lord no, not again...

 

I know that whatever you are going through, you are not back slidden A back slidden person would not even be concerned

 

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 

Yes ma'am we all go through those periods. I have had one or two myself and other dry spells. But looking back, those were actually the times God was there the most You are free in Christ, eternally sealed.

 

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."