Does this reality blow your mind about body image?

[Toddbt12y1]

Even a guy who is clearly making a good effort to see the world from a woman's point of view (and thank you, Todd; that's sincere) just excluded fat women from the category of women. They just kind of ceased to exist in the span of a few paragraphs. THAT is how insidious this is.

 

Insidious is something rather evil.

 

I never excluded them. I called them women.

 

Words tend to interchange. To later call them "them" or something else, isn't something insidious.

 

Women do tend to have an easy(albeit) not overly, time with getting action. Not entirely untrue that its if anything easier than a males.

 

The 200lb woman was a reference to the potential story about a friend of mine. He sees them as nothing more than meat:

 

He is the wolf ready to devour them. He is insidious. Not me.

 

I do not go around treating people as anything less than people. Words aside;

 

They interchange. No way did I deem them. Nor women. Think about it. Guys are horndogs. They will(and some will sleep with any type of woman), whereas, a woman has more or less decision making when it comes to sex. Most aren't going to choose a bad looking Guy, who doesn't work. I don't blame them.

 

Whereas, like with a friend. He has no job, doesn't care. He gets with women of the same mindset; he isn't going to refuse due to wait or work ethic.

 

I guess that is the difference between a good woman and bad. A good Guy and bad. They choose what's better. Other's don't care. Guess this was off the subject...I'm rather tired, sry.

[Anela]

Insidious is something rather evil.

 

I never excluded them. I called them women.

 

Words tend to interchange. To later call them "them" or something else, isn't something insidious.

 

Women do tend to have an easy(albeit) not overly, time with getting action. Not entirely untrue that its if anything easier than a males.

 

The 200lb woman was a reference to the potential story about a friend of mine. He sees them as nothing more than meat:

 

He is the wolf ready to devour them. He is insidious. Not me.

 

I do not go around treating people as anything less than people. Words aside;

 

They interchange. No way did I deem them. Nor women. Think about it. Guys are horndogs. They will(and some will sleep with any type of woman), whereas, a woman has more or less decision making when it comes to sex. Most aren't going to choose a bad looking Guy, who doesn't work. I don't blame them.

 

Whereas, like with a friend. He has no job, doesn't care. He gets with women of the same mindset; he isn't going to refuse due to wait or work ethic.

 

I guess that is the difference between a good woman and bad. A good Guy and bad. They choose what's better. Other's don't care. Guess this was off the subject...I'm rather tired, sry.

 

I understand. it's been said numerous times here that overweight women don't exist for a lot of men - and that those who DO find overweight women attractive, are seen as having something wrong with them.

 

It's the same for those of us who are over a certain age - or it can be, it isn't a given. As I've said elsewhere, men my age were suddenly deciding on dating sites, that they "preferred someone younger" whereas I had men 50+ (even 60+) deciding that I was the one for them. I'm not against the age difference if something happens by itself, but having it decided for me that these men were what I should be aiming for, whilst they ignore women their own age, is just offensive to me. They also "prefer someone younger". Not all of them, but many of them.

 

And many of us don't want to be a piece of a** for someone. We don't just want the sex, so it isn't nearly as easy to find someone that we're actually compatible with. For some reason, for some guys out there, that just doesn't compute - and I don't know why, since they have their own ideas of who they want, and should understand that two people coming together should be able to get along well, and be comfortable around each other. It isn't a case of going out and plucking someone off a shelf, "oh, you'll do." Not for me.

[AlexDP]

Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis: two names that have been thrown around a lot on these boards as to what is considered to be the perfect woman, and what men want (a lot of men).

 

There are others. We didn't make that up.

 

Fine. If you think you have to look like Mila Kunis to get a guy, you can think that.

[Toddbt12y1]

I understand. it's been said numerous times here that overweight women don't exist for a lot of men - and that those who DO find overweight women attractive, are seen as having something wrong with them.

 

It's the same for those of us who are over a certain age - or it can be, it isn't a given. As I've said elsewhere, men my age were suddenly deciding on dating sites, that they "preferred someone younger" whereas I had men 50+ (even 60+) deciding that I was the one for them. I'm not against the age difference if something happens by itself, but having it decided for me that these men were what I should be aiming for, whilst they ignore women their own age, is just offensive to me. They also "prefer someone younger". Not all of them, but many of them.

 

And many of us don't want to be a piece of a** for someone. We don't just want the sex, so it isn't nearly as easy to find someone that we're actually compatible with. For some reason, for some guys out there, that just doesn't compute - and I don't know why, since they have their own ideas of who they want, and should understand that two people coming together should be able to get along well, and be comfortable around each other. It isn't a case of going out and plucking someone off a shelf, "oh, you'll do." Not for me.

 

 

The concept is a sad one. It is just a realization of life. But we need be careful though about what we shouldn't use insidious to try and detach whether or not I detached fat women from humanhood.

My referring to them as "one of those." Seems to be why.

 

That is just a way to completing what I said. I generally use my vocabulary like that. They are still human. Still women.

 

Look sad truth is the world as you know, isn't perfect. We are all judged.

 

Sorry, I wasn't demeaning anyone that goes with a big girl. I told the truth as to what my friend is. If he had a job, more respectful women would come his way, sad, but true. Yet he enjoys his lifestyle.

 

Now. Before anyone rains down me. There are respectable big women. They are great.

 

But what he gets is not respectable.

 

But I was judged as insidious. Insidiousness is an evil intent. I wasn't being evil. Probably poorly wrote what I meant and even now am.

 

I am very tired...but cannot sleep.

[Toddbt12y1]

Insidious isn't evil. My intended usage was probably closest to 2a: gradual, cumulative, subtle. Ie., these ideas are so deeply ingrained in all of us--even good guys, which, to the extent that one can judge these things on the internet, you seem to be--that we often don't even really think about them unless we make a concerted effort to notice.

 

You said that fat women have a hard time with men. (And I have a friend who would very much agree with that.) Then you said that women have an easy time. How does the second statement not contradict the first, unless you just kinda forgot to include fat women in it?

 

First statement: About women and ltr.

Second statement: about women and sex.

 

I forgot nothing.but words to fill in one from the other. I am beyond tired. Surely my writinng reflects that.

[Toddbt12y1]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

The problem is, most women I know are looking for an LTR, not random sex. In the perfect world, that is nice. This isn't the perfect world.

 

Usually what we want, we don't get.

 

Last time I come into a thread like this...how LS typical.

[fortyninethousand322]

I suppose in theory there would be some benefits to dating someone (whether male or female) who was "fat". For one, you'd have a license to let yourself go (if physical fitness wasn't something you cared about for you) without having to worry that they'd go find someone more attractive.

 

If you care about being in shape though (as I do) that's probably not an attractive proposition.

[LittleTiger]

I suppose in theory there would be some benefits to dating someone (whether male or female) who was "fat". For one, you'd have a license to let yourself go (if physical fitness wasn't something you cared about for you) without having to worry that they'd go find someone more attractive.

 

If you care about being in shape though (as I do) that's probably not an attractive proposition.

 

Although people often use the 'league' idea to explain why overweight people end up with overweight people, it has far more to do with matched values than not being able to find someone better.

 

Someone who likes to watch TV every night with a burger and fries plus a few beers, followed by a tub of ice cream and chocolate is unlikely to be a good match for a fitness fanatic who eats a healthy diet and spends two hours a day in the gym.

 

Like attracts like generally.

[fortyninethousand322]

Although people often use the 'league' idea to explain why overweight people end up with overweight people, it has far more to do with matched values than not being able to find someone better.

 

Someone who likes to watch TV every night with a burger and fries plus a few beers, followed by a tub of ice cream and chocolate is unlikely to be a good match for a fitness fanatic who eats a healthy diet and spends two hours a day in the gym.

 

Like attracts like generally.

 

Well, yeah. But it's not like most people exist in extremes like that. There are some "reasonably fit" people who aren't fitness fanatics but exercise moderately to stay in shape. While there are some people who have a little extra pounds on them who might not exercise all that much but don't eat like a pig every day either.

 

So it's possible for a person with an average physique to date someone who's fat. Not morbidly obese, just overweight.

[ScreamingTrees]

It is ridiculous to make comments about either men or women such as those that have been made in this thread.

 

Both men and women have their crosses to bear in terms of what is expected or desired by the opposite sex (or whoever they are hoping to attract).

 

The harsh truth is that if women are not interested in you it is because you are not what they are looking for - whether that is looks, money, personality, confidence, six pack etc etc.....and women are perfectly entitled to choose their own deal breakers.

 

The same for men. If you want a young, slim, hot woman with a tiny waist and large breasts, and you don't care if she has money or an education, that's your choice.

 

The fact remains that most people find long term partners and, at some point, will settle down and have children. Most of those people are just ordinary, average men and women. Neither gender deserves the bashing that is sometimes given on LS - and it is usually men bashing women - as in this particular thread.

 

I do agree that hating any group of people for what a few people have done to you isn't mature or intelligent, that wasn't *my* point, anyways.

 

I figure you could've just responded to him with that first statement without going into some irrelevant tangent.. But you're obviously free to do whatever you want. I'm just playing around, I find it amusing.

 

Women are entitled to choose their own deal breakers, of course. Anyone would be, whether those deal breakers are severely limiting or just ridiculous or not lenient enough.. My biggest deal breakers are if I feel a girl is "settling" for me, or if she's overweight. I would never settle for someone, nor am I anywhere near overweight. Very realistic, non-shallow standards, overall. If I'm shallow for mostly not being attracted to overweight women, I'm unashamedly so. That only excludes a relatively small portion of the overall population..

 

If I suspect a girl is "settling" due to.. perhaps, her long-term dating past not correlating with her current "desires", or any somewhat negative comments she might ever make about me to give me the impression that I'm not equally as amazing to her as she might be to me, I'll be gone. I want to be cared for and desired as a person. Not "utilized" like an ATM/Sperm bank the same way a woman may be pumped and dumped or strung along or whatever the equivalent could be..

 

Matter of fact, I'm only going to pursue girls that have decent jobs and make money to support themselves, no party girl dead beats for me.

[LittleTiger]

I do agree that hating any group of people for what a few people have done to you isn't mature or intelligent, that wasn't *my* point, anyways.

 

I figure you could've just responded to him with that first statement without going into some irrelevant tangent.. But you're obviously free to do whatever you want. I'm just playing around, I find it amusing.

 

Women are entitled to choose their own deal breakers, of course. Anyone would be, whether those deal breakers are severely limiting or just ridiculous or not lenient enough.. My biggest deal breakers are if I feel a girl is "settling" for me, or if she's overweight. I would never settle for someone, nor am I anywhere near overweight. Very realistic, non-shallow standards, overall. If I'm shallow for mostly not being attracted to overweight women, I'm unashamedly so. That only excludes a relatively small portion of the overall population..

 

If I suspect a girl is "settling" due to.. perhaps, her long-term dating past not correlating with her current "desires", or any somewhat negative comments she might ever make about me to give me the impression that I'm not equally as amazing to her as she might be to me, I'll be gone. I want to be cared for and desired as a person. Not "utilized" like an ATM/Sperm bank the same way a woman may be pumped and dumped or strung along or whatever the equivalent could be..

 

Matter of fact, I'm only going to pursue girls that have decent jobs and make money to support themselves, no party girl dead beats for me.

 

What I said wasn't irrelevant .......and aren't we all here to amuse ourselves?

 

Since we're on the subject, I find it amusing how people talk about their own deal breakers as though they are the only reasonable 'rules' to go by when it comes to relationships.

 

We all want what we want of course, but love doesn't really work that way. Nobody wants to be used or someone's 'better than nothing' choice, and most of us want a partner who's a decent human being who shares similar values, other than that, anything goes.

 

When we fall head over heels for someone and the feeling is mutual, their job, financial situation, physical (and even psychological) imperfections etc become irrelevant. If you 'choose' a partner based on anything other than love, in my opinion, you are settling.

[ScreamingTrees]

What I said wasn't irrelevant .......and aren't we all here to amuse ourselves?

 

Since we're on the subject, I find it amusing how people talk about their own deal breakers as though they are the only reasonable 'rules' to go by when it comes to relationships.

 

We all want what we want of course, but love doesn't really work that way. Nobody wants to be used or someone's 'better than nothing' choice, and most of us want a partner who's a decent human being who shares similar values, other than that, anything goes.

 

When we fall head over heels for someone and the feeling is mutual, their job, financial situation, physical (and even psychological) imperfections etc become irrelevant. If you 'choose' a partner based on anything other than love, in my opinion, you are settling.

 

Well, personally, I'm not too familiar with love, I don't know what "it" happens to be. I'm not going to live my life never experiencing it, even if it's not "true" love, whatever that is.. Not going to wait around for some magical emotional feeling to suddenly overtake me with some random person by chance..

[Irial]

Honestly I think all OP said is pretty much bs. Sorry if I put it so bluntly, but I can't come up with a nice way to say it.

 

I am not American, however my boyfriend is. He's got no swimmer body (he's quite short too), no particular social skills whatsoever (he can sometimes be a little awkward even) and I strongly doubt he actively spent much of his life building himself up as an attractive man. He has a low paying research associate job while finishing his grad school degree, so definitely nothing special there either. Won't have a high paying job for who knows how many years, if ever, and that doesn't bother me one bit. It's probably the thing I think about the least. "Despite" all this - and I add quotations as it is all irrelevant to me - I would say yes in a heartbeat if he asked me to be mine for the rest of our lives.

 

I take my own self-improvement and growth very seriously, even though I am already taken (thus no pressure in finding a man or my soulmate). I work on myself very hard and try to always overcome my negative features and replace them with something healthier and more appreciable by others too. I try to be as educated as possible and I try to keep my body moderately fit, which isn't very easy for me as my lifestyle doesn't allow a lot of time to work out, plus I gain weight quite easily. Yet, I work hard to be a good person and to look good too. What you are saying is that you won't see anything in a girl beyond her being skinny, and I might have been doing all this hard work and you'd still consider me just "a girl who isn't fat". You do exactly what you claim women do about men.

 

So basically:

1) not all women are after men who have built themselves or they must have swimmers bodies or be rich and have an amazing job or have the perfect genetics (all the women I know aren't like that)

2) it's not true women don't work on themselves (regardless of whether guys have standards or would date just anyone who isn't fat).

Edited January 21, 2013 by Irial

[Els]

Waking up to drink tea and eat tasty pancakes makes life worth living

Having a great debate with other guys makes life worth living

Inventing new technology makes life worth living

Playing a simple video game makes life worth living

 

Living with a feminine entity that can screw me over in divorce isn't worth it. That entity may also take all your hard earn money after 10 years of so called love. Why would I desire to even put up with the feminine entities drama or endless tests. Besides giving birth and sex just what can a female do for men or this world? To this day men invent and push forward reality on earth.

 

They look pretty.......what else?

 

So... you don't want what you can't get. That's excellent. What exactly is the problem here?

[Anela]

Waking up to drink tea and eat tasty pancakes makes life worth living

Having a great debate with other guys makes life worth living

Inventing new technology makes life worth living

Playing a simple video game makes life worth living

 

Living with a feminine entity that can screw me over in divorce isn't worth it. That entity may also take all your hard earn money after 10 years of so called love. Why would I desire to even put up with the feminine entities drama or endless tests. Besides giving birth and sex just what can a female do for men or this world? To this day men invent and push forward reality on earth.

 

They look pretty.......what else?

 

 

So... you don't want what you can't get. That's excellent. What exactly is the problem here?

 

Unless there's a subconscious wish that writing all of this will re-wire the brain of an exceptionally beautiful girl who falls in love with him, video games and all, then I don't get it either. Sometimes I wish that writing something out could sort out my problem, but it only ever works if it changes something in my own mind - if it gets me to take steps to do something that helps.

 

Power_Girl, you might want to just get yourself a blow-up doll. After all, what if "she" gives birth to another "feminine entity" - you're only contributing to the "problem" if you're the father.

[Aedra]

The young men I am talking about are those who make misogynistic posts on a regular basis, showing a complete lack of respect for women and zero interest in learning about them - like this thread. If that isn't you, I'm very pleased to hear it.

 

All I am asking is that any time a guy thinks about how unfair women are on men and how sexist we are - please remember that it works both ways.

 

There are valid reasons for type of 'advert' the OP posted showing women of all shapes and sizes putting themselves down. One of which is that society (both men and women) have made it clear (from the year dot until this day) that a desirable women has to look a certain way.

 

We are talking hundreds of years of women being put down because they don't match up to some physical ideal. The media bombards us with the image of the perfect woman, magazines and movies make millions out of creating 'perfect women' who don't even exist and shoving it under our noses on a daily basis. Even young children, both boys and girls, have a skewed idea of what women are supposed to look like.

 

The porn industry has gone one stage further and now tells us what shape our breasts should be, how much pubic hair we should(n't) have, and what limits (or lack of them) we should set in the bedroom.

 

There was a TV programme on in the UK a couple of years ago about young people and pornography and they interviewed school aged teenagers. The boys all said they were grossed out by 'normal' breasts - they expected all girls to have breasts like women in porn films. They were grossed out by women's body hair and expected their 16 year old girlfriends to shave or wax pubic hair. They were grossed out by cellulite - yes, even 16 year old girls have it sometimes. They were grossed out by fat, by spots, by stretch marks etc etc etc. They were basically grossed out by any physical 'defect' that didn't conform to porn or magazine 'perfect'!!!

 

On top of that, even when men are in relationships, the vast majority of them still look at these images of 'perfect women'. Their wife or girlfriend has to hope that she measures up in other ways because she sure as hell doesn't measure up physically.

 

Now, I am not going to say that guys don't have it tough, because they clearly do. Most women do expect them to have a decent job, to look after themselves and to be reasonably confident in a social environment, but they do not have a tangible vision of this 'perfect man' thrown in their face every minute of every day. Nor do they find that their wife or girlfriend spends any time flicking through 'brochures' or online 'shops' displaying Mr Perfect personality/body/job/wealth etc.

 

I don't want to make this a competition but, if we are going to talk about 'a highly sexist standard', women hardly get off lightly!

 

I was going to respond to this thread but I felt like you took the words out of my mouth and wrote it so much more eloquently. Guys really do have it tough in alot of ways, there's no doubt about it. They too, have to deal with annoying double standards and gender expectations. But boy I am SICK and tired of these butthurt, misogynistic men thinking women have it so damned easy in this society. Its so, so, so far from the truth.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Aedra

[Power Girl]

Depending on how hot the Alpha or beta is most women will go easy on a guys personality.

 

What is a personality? It's how you respond to events and/or living beings. Keeping this in mind it can only mean that personality was NEVER a deciding factor for women. The only level of personality you need is a 2-3 if you're a guy.

 

What women look for first is LOOKS then Alpha male body language. So if you look like a male model you can get away with being a dumbass as long as you have the Alpha body language.

 

What guys will need in order to attract HB8-10.

1. Jaw reconstruction along with chin.

2. Height must be 5'11

3. A level 2-3 personality (Which is basically saying the right things when needed. ONLY very ugly men need personality level 6-10)

 

Men who are not attractive need money and status. Average beta-male men of society need status jobs if they wish to be attractive. Only less attractive women date beta males. The downside is she'll be an HB4 or 5 just like 70% of women on earth.

 

Life is science people. All of this is calculations.

[MrCastle]

2. Height must be 5'11

 

*Sigh* Damnit.

 

Excuse me, I have some dates to cancel.

[40 Fonzarelli]

Some hot girls will go for "beta males" for their personality.

[kaylan]

Depending on how hot the Alpha or beta is most women will go easy on a guys personality.

 

What is a personality? It's how you respond to events and/or living beings. Keeping this in mind it can only mean that personality was NEVER a deciding factor for women. The only level of personality you need is a 2-3 if you're a guy.

 

What women look for first is LOOKS then Alpha male body language. So if you look like a male model you can get away with being a dumbass as long as you have the Alpha body language.

 

What guys will need in order to attract HB8-10.

1. Jaw reconstruction along with chin.

2. Height must be 5'11

3. A level 2-3 personality (Which is basically saying the right things when needed. ONLY very ugly men need personality level 6-10)

 

Men who are not attractive need money and status. Average beta-male men of society need status jobs if they wish to be attractive. Only less attractive women date beta males. The downside is she'll be an HB4 or 5 just like 70% of women on earth.

 

Life is science people. All of this is calculations.

Based on my life experiences with women, id say Im epmirically about an average 7 on days where my skin looks good, I maintain my hair, and I dress nice. On days I dont care, Im sure Im a 6 or even a 5.

 

That being said, I feel Im a regular dude...and even so, Ive gotten with several hot babes in my day. Girls who were at least 7s. So considering Im not this sexy "alpha" stallion, how did I get attractive women OP?

[KathyM]

My sister is happily married to a beta male. She's a 9/10. Her first husband was an alpha. She's enjoying the qualities a beta man provides.

[TheZebra]

*Sigh* Damnit.

 

Excuse me, I have some dates to cancel.

 

 

Thanks for the reminder, I have a date tomorrow with a guy who's 5'9, I better go let him know how unattractive he suddenly became.

 

Anywho, looks are to dating as resume is to job hunting. Having a good one will get you in the door for an interview, but it doesn't guarantee you a job.

[Toddbt12y1]

Oh dear.

 

Beats head on desk*

 

Enough of these threads.

 

Now another pointless gender war thread is going to bloom...

 

Like the others.

 

Man, am I back in high school?

[MrCastle]

Thanks for the reminder, I have a date tomorrow with a guy who's 5'9, I better go let him know how unattractive he suddenly became.

 

Anywho, looks are to dating as resume is to job hunting. Having a good one will get you in the door for an interview, but it doesn't guarantee you a job.

 

I like you Zeebs. I like you

[TheZebra]

I like you Zeebs. I like you

 

d'awww, you flatter me *blushes*