Low Self-Esteem?

[Summer Breeze]

t/j - One of my favorite lines!!! When I say this to my kids, they have NO idea what I am talking about!

 

 

I was at O'Hare over the holidays with a friend of mine. I said it to her and about 5 people around us looked at us and all of them had big grins. It was great.

[Decorative]

Not always. Sometimes it's simply the age old question: "Well, if she's so great...what are you doing here?"

 

Which follows with the answer "well, he's still not leaving her, so even with the comparison, he stays".

[Mount]

Yes we all know that - common sense. Just like in most big corporations, those high level senior management people look like very laid back, always talking to employees/peeris gently and friendly, because their internal cultivation has been up to the level they DO NOT need to raise voice. While you might observe those low level or middle level managements are quite demanding, talking in aggressive way all the time.

 

But again, Pierre, you would say those people or MMs behavoring gently/friendly as acting smooth, manuipulating though.

 

I wanted to mention that sometimes you see a person that is extremely demanding. A person that feels mistreated just about every time they go to a restaurant. A person that claims to love herself (or himself) while demanding to be treated like royalty.

 

Sometimes, these folks have very low self esteem and the excessive demands are simply an act.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Mount

[MissBee]

I was going to comment on this in another thread but didn't want to hijack further.

 

I notice that some posters continually pull out the "low self-esteem" card when a OW struggles (at least at first) with why she would not instantly fall out of love and move straight on to Hate and Loathing for a man who she was emotionally invested in... who lied to her. (This could apply to the opposite genders as well). Why is it a sign of low self-esteem to struggle with trying to hang onto a feeling/love that she thought was special and try to fix something to make the relationship work?

 

I am NOT saying it's fixable - clearly it usually isn't. But I don't see the same comments about low self-esteem on the part of BSs who bend over backwards to make their marriages work after their H (or W) cheats on them. How is lying and deceit any more acceptable in that situation? Why then, using the same analogy, would the BS not have low self-esteem because she doesn't just tell H to take a hike and that she is better than that, etc.?

 

It's hard for me to mentally reconcile that the OW has low self-esteem for hoping a relationship could work out with a MM after she found out she was lied to... yet the BS of that same MM doesn't have low self-esteem for hoping the same thing about the marriage. It's the same man telling lies, after all. How is the destruction of an OW when it all comes crashing down from MM's lies any more of an issue of her self-esteem than the same crashing down in H's marriage?

 

I am genuinely curious. Because I don't see it that way. I see it as human nature to want to believe in the person you love, whether you are married or not. And to struggle to justify it. To me, a much better indicator of self-esteem is NOT that the OW went through those feelings in the first place, but what she ultimately does about it in the end.

 

I do understand the efforts of the BS to do everything to save the marriage. I don't know what I would do in those shoes, but I know I would be destroyed too and I suspect I would set some lines in the sand and fight to save the marriage. There is a lot invested. And yes, maybe it was a one-time thing and won't happen again and everyone is remorseful (hopefully that is the case). So please understand I am NOT saying that the BS has low self-esteem for doing this... in fact, that's my entire point. It isn't about self-esteem.

 

I just don't buy the "low self-esteem" thing all the time.

 

 

I think my mother has issues of self-worth or at the least problems with knowing what love from a man is/should be because of not growing up with a dad,that have allowed her to be married to a serial cheater.

 

In her case, I know there has to be some issues there why she has continued to be married to a man who almost every year or few years is cheating.

 

I think every relationship we have says something about us. We attract people/situations that are a match for our issues or play off them in some way. I'm not suggesting it is anyone's fault when they are cheated on or lied to...what I know for myself, having a serial cheater for a dead, it affected how I then formed relationships, the kind of men I was attracted to, my expectations etc. Lots of times I felt like what I said I wanted and then what I ended up choosing were so different and I felt I was "unlucky" but I later realized it wasn't luck so much as I was blindly choosing men who were like my dad, but they didn't wear a sign, and when I witnessed the red flags I paid them no mind and simply hoped for a better outcome than last time. I didn't think I had low self-esteem and maybe low self esteem is a simplistic term. I think a more appropriate explanation, is as I've said, often the choices we make/what we hope for/what we compromise/what we put up with etc. if less than stellar....we should consider what about us makes us desire/want/put up with that.

 

BSs/OW/regular single gal....all the same to me in terms of EVERY INDIVIDUAL needs to be responsible for their life choices and needs to be aware of what contributes to their choices re: relationships. Not to blame yourself but to simply see where your power is and to see when it could be as a result of something awry with your picker/your motivations/desires etc.

[MissBee]

I think my thread was the thread that caused this thread...

 

I do have low self-esteem. I don't look it or show it and its always been a secret. But I do. I have a history of sexual abuse and I have battled an eating disorder that no one knows about except my therapist. And I am sure that even though I try to conceal it I am sure I subtlety and not so subtlety let him know that. For example, I know I told him about the rape after we dated for about 4 months

 

 

But I would say...I'm pretty sure he has low self-esteem too. Compliments made him uncomfortable. He has a masters in education but he gave up teaching because he felt he wasn't making a difference. I'm sure that's how he could spot it- he knew the signs to look for because he has some of the same signs. So I think laying the self-esteem thing solely on the OW is unfair. I bet all of us- me, him, her- have low self esteem and that's how we ended up on this mess. Because really, if any of us didnt...would this still be going on two weeks later? No, because she would have kicked him out. I would have not allowed him to contact me. He would have moved onto his next girlfriend. We are all still in this situation because I bet all three of us secretly think this is what we deserve

 

 

Thanks so much for sharing Lue

 

This post is great!

 

I think sometimes a misconception is that low self-esteem or low self-worth is worn like a neon sign and it looks a particular kind of way. That is someone who speaks lowly, looks mousy, has no friends, no life etc. When that isn't true. People who suffer with issues of self-worth look and act "normal" and may be very educated, beautiful, outspoken, out going and funny and many of them don't even admit to themselves that they struggle with that. Even some celebrities have low self-worth and the worst is, external validation doesn't change it and it doesn't have to be "realistic" but is often an irrational feeling/worldview, and like in your case Lue, it can often happen when one is mistreated severely. You don't ask to have a low self-image but that abuse often rearranges that person's understanding of their worth. Often what gives it away is their romantic relationships and or the choices you see them make in that regard.

 

The skill set we need for our professional life and for interpersonal relationships are not the same and there are people who are not very confident and assured in professional settings but don't have issues forming healthy relationships and who don't have issues with how they see themselves in that regard. Then there are also many people who are very good professionals, but their relationship skills and how they see themselves re: relationships are shoddy. There's a book called Loving Him Without Losing You geared towards women who have it together and are the poster children for successful, happy and bright but who in their romantic relationships are a mess! Their issues of self-worth are activated by men and romantic relationships whereas in other areas of their life their self-worth is more or less in tact.

[Tenacity]

I agree not all OW are tw same. You're proof. So is OW9 an others. But for those whose behavior fits the cling at all costs (which yours didn't it seems) I think that arrogance is more likely than low self esteem.

 

One suggestion for you would be.... to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than crucifying them before knowing who they are, and then reversing your opinion.

 

Not all OW are the same, and not all BS are the same either. Most of us are very good people who are reacting from a place of great hurt. Can you try to see that, beyond your own perspective of your own pain?

[Tenacity]

I'm actually puzzled because your post above seems to regard an suggestion that someone has low self-esteem as an insult, whereas for many it's a fact.

 

I apologize for any confusion in my post, and I do understand it.

 

I do understand it's a fact that many have low self-esteem. I was commenting on how the diagnosis is thrown out frequently as a reason for actions here, and wondering if it is appropriate given the sources and also because of the fact that to me, it does often come off as negative.

[Tenacity]

Hey Ten,

 

It's not even her pain. Just people she knows, or so she says.

 

You know me Wiser (and by the way, I have missed you),

 

I just try to get along

[Got it]

Hey Ten,

 

It's not even her pain. Just people she knows, or so she says.

 

Yes and because it is healthy, normal or reasonable to pick up the banner for people we know.

[ComingInHot]

Tenacity;

I just read your thread topic and wanted to reply Before I read any other responses.

My apologies if redundant.*

 

I am ONLY replying from my experience as a BW...

 

I can say with confidence that I do NOT have low self esteem. But there is something else that I have struggled with that your post triggered.

 

Low self worth. Being that I just never thought I was "good enough" to deserve the love and attention or other things in life Plus accepting that "station" made it very easy for me to talk to anyone. Kind of took the pressure off in a sad, sad way ya know?.?.

 

With that said, I wonder if when my husband courted & purposed I felt like I was lucky (not deserving) to get a handsome, adoring man to spend my life with.

 

I hadn't yet realized my own self worth to the extent that I Deserved to go after and work hard and receive the benefits from that higher self worth. My life changed Drastically after my husband cheated. It was a fire cracker going off and I knew for the first time that I DESERVED better than this mess!

 

Like I said this is just me acknowledging what I suffered from until I decided Not to anymore. NO MAS**

[ComingInHot]

LadyGrey;

My heart goes out to you. How different our lives have been and are, yet such a similar struggle!

I always felt loved and that I was special. Chosen. And then very subtly and I don't think intentionally, "it was okay that I wasn't as tall & slim & smart & pretty, and they wouldn't expect me to be like them but they loved me just the same".

 

I never doubted I was loved, I just didn't expect a hot guy or straight A's etc. I was sincerely surprised when I got A's

 

Turns out I was just a late bloomer*

 

Lady Grey, you are not just worth a lot, You Are PRICELESS!!!

[Furious]

CIH's post mentioned something in her last post that resonates with me.

 

Self worth......I think that is my biggest issues, not necessarily self esteem but my worth.

 

It's painful to talk about but here I go......children of an alcoholic tend to develop certain characteristics and I can see some of these in myself. I learned that I needed to walk on eggshells, to be quite, that anger was not to be expressed, that I didn't have a right to negative feelings, I thought I had to be tough, to not let my hurt/pain/anger show. I have struggled with this all my life and then coupled with the physical abuse and sexual molestation by my father, it compounded all the previous mentioned and added even more.

 

I think I overcame a lot of that in my early adult years but then more life

happened. I'm the caretaker of my youngest daughter, who has special needs. My life is not like most other people's, I can't just hop in the car and go. I have a lot of limitations on my time and someone else is completely dependent on me.............so this works on my head, it makes me feel that I am less than and part of me believes that no man in his right mind would take all that comes with me on. It's just too much, and too hard. Sometimes I feel so alone. Uggg.........sorry I'm not having a good day!

 

 

(((((hugs))))) ladyGrey

 

A person's self worth is the greatest gift they give to themselves.

[Spark1111]

I apologize for any confusion in my post, and I do understand it.

 

I do understand it's a fact that many have low self-esteem. I was commenting on how the diagnosis is thrown out frequently as a reason for actions here, and wondering if it is appropriate given the sources and also because of the fact that to me, it does often come off as negative.

 

I think that for some, not all, low self-esteem in relationships is part of the initial phase of an extramarital affair just as in any relationship that has the potential to be self-destructive and painful.

 

I think, when the initial friendship begins between the AP and the MP, it is easy to open and up confide to them because they are taken, unlike a single person who may judge or reject you.

 

Since they are, at least in the beginning, married to another, it is easier to fall into friendship and fuel the attraction because there appears to be less risk involved.

 

when they begin to confide in you about their unhappy marriage, and you feel empathy for them as you would any friend, they take it often as the green light to fuel their attraction to you.

 

So they tell you how special you are, how amazing, and you need, no want to believe that despite the fact that they have now crossed a marital boundary.

 

the affair progresses and despite the fact that he is lying to his wife and family, you do not see that, or you justify that because you need to believe you are even more special since he is risking so much to be with you.

 

Why do women ignore the obvious to let a lying, conniving man turn their world and lives upside down, sometimes for years?

 

That is NOT strength and confidence.

 

DDay hits and both you and the BS are self-esteem shattered. She has taken a lifetime of risk with this man and must now decide if kids, assets, debts, history, extended family, traditions are worth giving him another chance.

 

You, if you choose to, to protect what self-esteem is left, can say, well, he WAS married, so I guess he had to go back to that!"$!& wife.

 

I think it is exemplified in the decision to proceed, to ignore his behavior, to believe his lies that denotes low self-esteem.

 

and he saw it, from a mile away.

[Survivor12]

Although it is common to see the terms "self esteem" and "self respect" used interchangeably, there is a difference...

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199911/self-esteem-vs-self-respect

[stevie_23]

Self worth......I think that is my biggest issues, not necessarily self esteem but my worth.

 

It's painful to talk about but here I go......children of an alcoholic tend to develop certain characteristics and I can see some of these in myself. I learned that I needed to walk on eggshells, to be quiet, that anger was not to be expressed, that I didn't have a right to negative feelings, I thought I had to be tough, to not let my hurt/pain/anger show. I have struggled with this all my life and then coupled with the physical abuse and sexual molestation by my father, it compounded all the previous mentioned and added even more.

 

I think I overcame a lot of that in my early adult years but then more life happened. I'm the caretaker of my youngest daughter, who has special needs. My life is not like most other people's, I can't just hop in the car and go. I have a lot of limitations on my time and someone else is completely dependent on me.............so this works on my head, it makes me feel that I am less than and part of me believes that no man in his right mind would take all that comes with me on. It's just too much, and too hard. Sometimes I feel so alone. Uggg.........sorry I'm not having a good day!

 

Wow. This is me (well, the first parts).

 

I have self esteem but self worth...no. I don't think I have ANY.

 

My dad was an alcoholic also. He thankfully stopped drinking when I was 14 (after drinking my whole life prior to that), and he was never abusive to me, but he was verbally abusive to my mother which upset me more than if he'd done it to me (I wished he would do it to me instead of her).

 

I know all about being quiet, being "perfect" so as not to cause any further issues...about NEVER expressing anything negative. I am 34 years old and yet find it impossible to show sadness or anger to my parents. I find it excruciatingly embarrassing. I am fine with mild amused annoyance, and positive happy emotions, but nothing negative. I don't even really know why this is.

 

I also think this is why I've developed such a thing about always feeling I MUST be able to understand both sides of a situation. I was always loyal to my mother, and took her side, and knew my dad's behaviour was bad and not acceptable, but...he was my dad, you know? I had to try to understand.

 

I also have always had this feeling that I was never enough. No matter what. I was insignificant. Not because my parents made me feel that way, but because to a kid, to hear your dad tell your mum he hated her, that he hated her for everything he ever loved her for, that he would chop her head off, and you're not able to do ANYTHING because it wouldn't make any difference?

 

And as a kid, to know that your love, and your very existence, SHOULD mean that your dad doesn't behave this way, and that he'd choose YOU over alcohol...and yet he didn't? You don't count. That's what it says to you as a kid.

 

I am so sorry, LadyGrey...you seem like a wonderful and very wise person. It is so unfair and NOT a reflection on you that you've experienced these bad things in your life.

 

You say you feel your self worth is less, or that YOU are less, partly also because you care for your daughter? Do you think this is a common thing among people who are carers? Obviously your time is greatly restricted and perhaps because you are sort of "living" for another person rather than purely for yourself and your own needs, you feel you've lost yourself? But...in terms of self worth...you should feel SO worthy. You care for your daughter, you make her life better and you are SO selfless in that way. That is a beautiful thing.

Edited January 22, 2013 by stevie_23

[ComingInHot]

Survivor12;

That is exactly why I posted what I did about the difference between Self esteem and self worth. There is a difference in the meaning of each but the definitions are muddled due to not differentiating between them Including your added "self respect".

 

I'm pretty sure my response was basically liking your post.

 

I'll just go hit the like button...

[Spark1111]

Daddy is the,eh to a daughter's confidence in her future romantic attachments with the opposite sex.

 

If daddy cherishes, respects and admires you, that will be your expectation in all future relationships.

 

if daddy neglects, minimizes, criticizes you, or worse...you will continue to gravitate and choose what feels somewhat familiar, but maybe a slightly better version, at least for awhile in your romantic relationships.

 

Like a child, any attention....is attention that feels good if you never got enough of the right kind from daddy.

[Got it]

CIH's post mentioned something in her last post that resonates with me.

 

Self worth......I think that is my biggest issues, not necessarily self esteem but my worth.

 

It's painful to talk about but here I go......children of an alcoholic tend to develop certain characteristics and I can see some of these in myself. I learned that I needed to walk on eggshells, to be quite, that anger was not to be expressed, that I didn't have a right to negative feelings, I thought I had to be tough, to not let my hurt/pain/anger show. I have struggled with this all my life and then coupled with the physical abuse and sexual molestation by my father, it compounded all the previous mentioned and added even more.

 

I think I overcame a lot of that in my early adult years but then more life happened. I'm the caretaker of my youngest daughter, who has special needs. My life is not like most other people's, I can't just hop in the car and go. I have a lot of limitations on my time and someone else is completely dependent on me.............so this works on my head, it makes me feel that I am less than and part of me believes that no man in his right mind would take all that comes with me on. It's just too much, and too hard. Sometimes I feel so alone. Uggg.........sorry I'm not having a good day!

 

(((((ladyGrey)))))))) Big hugs for you. How wonderful of you to care for your sister like that. That is love right there. Look at all you have dealt with, all the obstacles you have over come. You have dealt with more than was fair, obviously, but came through it an amazing woman. Don't ever doubt that you. You are a prize.

[ComingInHot]

-- Originally Posted by SweetiePie12

In some cases, the OW may have more dignity in the situation, as she's the one who often knows specifically that there is a BSO in the scenario. The OW becomes his co-conspirator, confidante, the one he trusts not to blow his cover and disrupt his reality... It can be the BSO who is in the dark, not the OW

SweetiePie;

Huh? don't think I get it. Are you saying because you KNEW you were and chose to sleep w/a MM wherefore enabling him to cheat on his wife (I understand it could have been anyone willing to*) then participating in the continued lies and deceit while gladly accepting that which he had promised to his Wife then stole from her to give to you, shows you have more dignity?

I'm not sure I follow as by Definition:

dignity

Definition

dig·ni·ty

[ [COLOR=#0033cc]dígnətee[/COLOR] ]

 

 

 

dig·ni·tiesPlural

 

NOUN

 

1.

self-respect: a proper sense of pride and self-respect

 

2.

seriousness in behavior: seriousness, respectfulness, or formality in somebody's behavior and bearing

 

3.

worthiness: the condition of being worthy of respect, esteem, or honor

 

I'm Not trying to be rude. I am trying to understand. help me*