How long do I wait??

[jwi71]

What REALLY puzzles me is....

 

Why have an A, apparently an exit A, which is patently unhealthy and then turn around, and almost immediately, exhibit extraordinary healthy behaviors - namely going NC to sort his D and himself post D.

 

It has not escaped my attention that sandwiched between unhealthy behavior and healthy behavior was sexual intercourse. It seems odd that AFTER sleeping with you he goes NC - whereas for months of EA he was ok. It strikes me as.....convenient.

 

It just doesn't follow.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

Most of the responses to you have been from the OW view. I can give you the MM view.

 

Is he stalling? Yes he is. Some do it to keep the OW around for the sex. But not every guy in an A is a cold calculated narcissist and just keeping the OW on a string for sex. I for one was in deep love with my AP I enjoyed every minute of texting, talking spending time with her. But I had many fears that I could be making a mistake at every turn. My heart totally belonged to my AP. But what will happen in the end??? How will it really be? I am making a fool of myself and her???

 

The only advice I can give you is based on my own experiences from being in that situation I would say the biggest issue with a MM in a A that is truly in love with the OW (not using her just for sex) is that he is scared. Plain and simple. That however does not mean he doesn't love you and want to be with you. For a man that has not been through divorce we have had horror stories beat into us how bad men get destroyed in a divorce. We hear how scorned a man is that leaves his family. How will he feel about himself when exposed as a liar and cheater? MM have to wrestle with that shame from friends and family and the ex wife and kids. Will my kids hate me? Will they do bad in school now if I leave them? Will their relationships with others be ruined because of what I did to them? How will they accept your ex wife's new man? How will the relationship be with the ex wife.

 

The reality is kids are resilient but these are the thoughts that go through a MM's mind. Unless a MM goes through counseling how is he to know that things work all the time in a divorce. But not having gone through it before how do you know?

 

The other major thing running through a MM's mind is regarding the OW herself. If she is single, she can leave the MM at any point. So the MM fears that he will blow up his world for his OW and she might not be there in the end. That she won't wait throughout the divorce process. That she will meet another man in the process. That during the divorce process the strain of the D will cause issues with your new relationship. In his mind he is not leaving his wife he is leaving to be with YOU! Everyone will say that he should leave if he doesnt love his wife and want to have an A in the first place. But...that is not what he is thinking. he fixated on you. And not doing the right thing. He is caught up in the A and not thinking clearly. That just piles onto the confusion.

 

Like everyone said why wait for him? Well that very fact is one of reasons he is scared to leave. Its way more complicated than I have stated above but trying to boil it down to single post it does come down to fear. Plain and simple.

 

Everyone will bash this post and say well if you love her than don't be wimp and leave the wife and go with the OW. But....as much as you think you know the OW. When push comes to shove you start to really look at everyday life with the OW. How will it be? What will everyday be like now? Will she accept my kids? Money will be tight now after a divorce. Will that effect our relationship? Will I cheat on her? Will she cheat on me? We are both liars and cheaters already. Who is to say you won't both do it again? Am I just caught up in a affair??? We beat up ourselves over these questions constantly. I felt so guilty every day my OW waited for me to make up my mind. I hurt so bad I loved her with all of my heart and pained me to have her feel rejected that I did not run to her right away.

 

So...my advice to you is to do the following:

 

1. Talk talk talk!!!!! Communicate do not go NC!!!! Unless the relationship is truly over.

2. Tell him everything you think and feel. Everything, do not hold back. if you are crying hysterically every night then let him know that. Tell him what you expect and want out of the relationship.

3. Make sure he knows you can't wait and that if doesn't leave you will meet someone else and fall in love with them. I know it sounds cruel but while he is thinking about life will be like with you he has to know what life will be like without you. reality check. And it will happen.

4. Discuss finances, where will you live, where you want to be in 1 year 5 years etc. Reassure him you will accept his kids and deal with a possible crazy ex wife. But only do these things if you can really deal with them.

5. You both lied and he cheated so you need to discuss how that will affect YOUR relationship with him. I know it sounds crazy (especially after an affair) but security in the new relationship is paramount to him now. Especially feeling like everything else will be out of control.

6. I would immediately go to couples counseling to do everything possible to give it a chance to work. try to head off most other issues when AP's get together.

 

By doing these things you can make the relationship turn from a fanatsy to reality in his mind and he will be able to accept it and make the right decision and hopefully make it easier to make the transition. I know it sounds like a lot of work but that is what you signed on for when you got into an A that will turn into a relationship.

[veryconfused82]

Most of the responses to you have been from the OW view. I can give you the MM view.

 

Is he stalling? Yes he is. Some do it to keep the OW around for the sex. But not every guy in an A is a cold calculated narcissist and just keeping the OW on a string for sex. I for one was in deep love with my AP I enjoyed every minute of texting, talking spending time with her. But I had many fears that I could be making a mistake at every turn. My heart totally belonged to my AP. But what will happen in the end??? How will it really be? I am making a fool of myself and her???

 

The only advice I can give you is based on my own experiences from being in that situation I would say the biggest issue with a MM in a A that is truly in love with the OW (not using her just for sex) is that he is scared. Plain and simple. That however does not mean he doesn't love you and want to be with you. For a man that has not been through divorce we have had horror stories beat into us how bad men get destroyed in a divorce. We hear how scorned a man is that leaves his family. How will he feel about himself when exposed as a liar and cheater? MM have to wrestle with that shame from friends and family and the ex wife and kids. Will my kids hate me? Will they do bad in school now if I leave them? Will their relationships with others be ruined because of what I did to them? How will they accept your ex wife's new man? How will the relationship be with the ex wife.

 

The reality is kids are resilient but these are the thoughts that go through a MM's mind. Unless a MM goes through counseling how is he to know that things work all the time in a divorce. But not having gone through it before how do you know?

 

The other major thing running through a MM's mind is regarding the OW herself. If she is single, she can leave the MM at any point. So the MM fears that he will blow up his world for his OW and she might not be there in the end. That she won't wait throughout the divorce process. That she will meet another man in the process. That during the divorce process the strain of the D will cause issues with your new relationship. In his mind he is not leaving his wife he is leaving to be with YOU! Everyone will say that he should leave if he doesnt love his wife and want to have an A in the first place. But...that is not what he is thinking. he fixated on you. And not doing the right thing. He is caught up in the A and not thinking clearly. That just piles onto the confusion.

 

Like everyone said why wait for him? Well that very fact is one of reasons he is scared to leave. Its way more complicated than I have stated above but trying to boil it down to single post it does come down to fear. Plain and simple.

 

Everyone will bash this post and say well if you love her than don't be wimp and leave the wife and go with the OW. But....as much as you think you know the OW. When push comes to shove you start to really look at everyday life with the OW. How will it be? What will everyday be like now? Will she accept my kids? Money will be tight now after a divorce. Will that effect our relationship? Will I cheat on her? Will she cheat on me? We are both liars and cheaters already. Who is to say you won't both do it again? Am I just caught up in a affair??? We beat up ourselves over these questions constantly. I felt so guilty every day my OW waited for me to make up my mind. I hurt so bad I loved her with all of my heart and pained me to have her feel rejected that I did not run to her right away.

 

So...my advice to you is to do the following:

 

1. Talk talk talk!!!!! Communicate do not go NC!!!! Unless the relationship is truly over.

2. Tell him everything you think and feel. Everything, do not hold back. if you are crying hysterically every night then let him know that. Tell him what you expect and want out of the relationship.

3. Make sure he knows you can't wait and that if doesn't leave you will meet someone else and fall in love with them. I know it sounds cruel but while he is thinking about life will be like with you he has to know what life will be like without you. reality check. And it will happen.

4. Discuss finances, where will you live, where you want to be in 1 year 5 years etc. Reassure him you will accept his kids and deal with a possible crazy ex wife. But only do these things if you can really deal with them.

5. You both lied and he cheated so you need to discuss how that will affect YOUR relationship with him. I know it sounds crazy (especially after an affair) but security in the new relationship is paramount to him now. Especially feeling like everything else will be out of control.

6. I would immediately go to couples counseling to do everything possible to give it a chance to work. try to head off most other issues when AP's get together.

 

By doing these things you can make the relationship turn from a fanatsy to reality in his mind and he will be able to accept it and make the right decision and hopefully make it easier to make the transition. I know it sounds like a lot of work but that is what you signed on for when you got into an A that will turn into a relationship.

 

thank you so much for writing this. everything you have addressed here is what my MM has brought up in our conversations. i'm starting to think that i, in trying to protect my own heart, have not exactly come across as someone who he could have confidence in. hopefully i can remedy this ASAP. just a couple of questions for you....did it work out with your AP? how long did the whole divorce process take? i'd really love to hear more about your situation. thanks again.

[flattened]

Most of the responses to you have been from the OW view. I can give you the MM view.

 

That really sums it up perfectly. It's exactly how I felt. Except the OW ended things before I could put the wheels in motion to leave and divorce. And let me tell you, hard as it is to leave for someone you want to be with, leaving when you know that there's nothing is unbelievably difficult. I am continually obsessed with the thought that my family is going to suffer both emotionally and financially, and there's no positive outcome in the end. For anyone.

 

It's fine to demand action, and have deadlines for when action needs to be taken, and to have proof that action is being taken, but if you really love him, then you have to be there to support him.

[woinlove]

That really sums it up perfectly. It's exactly how I felt. Except the OW ended things before I could put the wheels in motion to leave and divorce. And let me tell you, hard as it is to leave for someone you want to be with, leaving when you know that there's nothing is unbelievably difficult. I am continually obsessed with the thought that my family is going to suffer both emotionally and financially, and there's no positive outcome in the end. For anyone.

 

It's fine to demand action, and have deadlines for when action needs to be taken, and to have proof that action is being taken, but if you really love him, then you have to be there to support him.

 

Re the bolded, I think that was the same for whatstheanswer too, OW moved on while he was still trying to work on his M. I wonder how much wanting something you can no longer have factors into it. When the MM doesn't end the M when OW is there, and then when she isn't an option any more and the M also falls apart, the message the MM sends is you should have waited.

 

It may be difficult to acknowledge that had you made a decision sooner, your life would be different, possibly better. I'm not sure if this applies to either of you, but it seems that when you only realize what you want after you no longer can have it, there may be more self-analysis involved in how you live you life, what choices you make, and if you are able to commit and make the right choices at the right time.

 

Waiting is no way to spend one's life. I think every morning one should decide where one wants to be right now and make sure one is doing what one can to be there.

Edited January 21, 2013 by woinlove

[flattened]

Re the bolded, I think that was the same for whatstheanswer too, OW moved on while he was still trying to work on his M.

 

Don't want to t/j, but I made a decision to leave, then the OW ended it. For her own reasons, whatever they may be, and certainly not because she was tired of waiting for me.

 

The point I was making is that even once the decision is made, it takes time and effort to put the wheels in motion. It's not like you just come home one day and say, "Honey, I'm leaving, I want a divorce" and she says, "Ok, cool, I'm free on Tuesday, lets sign off then". And even if things go smoothly from a logistical point of view, the emotions on all sides are anything but smooth.

 

Waiting is no way to spend one's life. I think every morning one should decide where one wants to be right now and make sure one is doing what one can to be there.

 

Waiting without action, it's true. But some things in life take time, and require some waiting. Even when you're doing what you can to be where you want to be.

[flattened]

So you don't want your family to suffer emotionally or finacially, but if YOU had a big prize waiting for YOU then it would be worth their suffering?

 

Again, to avoid t/j, I was just offering my opinion on what the MM might be going through, as a bit of information that might or might not be helpful to the OP. YMMV.

 

My thoughts and turmoil are a tad more complicated than your snarky comment indicates. But for the sake of keeping the discussion on track, I'll agree that I'm a selfish, ugly, evil person and my wife/family deserve better, and hopefully will find better.

[Got it]

How long would you wait?

 

That was what I did. I gave a year. Ample time to get things in order and a reasonable enough timeframe to get it done.

[Got it]

This is a line MM say to the OW in order to keep the OW in line - so she NEVER bugs him to actually follow through with leaving his wife:

 

"My wife threatened to take my kids away from me."

 

Unless the MM is an imminent threat to his children, he will be able to share custody of his children in the event of a divorce.

 

I was completely in agreement with you on this until I witnessed it with dMM. I have also witnessed this with a guy who is the BS. It really can depend on the court system in one's state and how much they are willing to spend in lawyers. I have seen with this friend especially, with the right combination, a guy can be financially devastated and literally lose his kids. It has been an unbelievable tragedy to watch.

[veryhappy]

It's like buying stocks. You can buy as you wish, as long as you understand that you can lose all your investment. All of it. Ask yourself "how much time am I willing to wait around and be okay with it in 5, 10 years if nothing will come out of it eventually? How long can I do that without being bitter and it having a long lasting effect on my mental health?".

 

If you are born in '82 based on your id name you might want children one day. If that's the case I suggest 3-6 months for him to file and move out and not a day more. If he can't move forward with you holding his hand( and his ...you know what), nothing will move things forward no matter how long you wait. If he leaves after years and years, you're better off not having stayed with him. Men tend to mix things up and then they blame the OW for the end of the M, at the slightest incovenience. Too messy.

 

It's critical that as long as you stay there holding his hand to push for a resolution. If you don't, he'll likely try to keep the status quo of the family and having you on the side.

[thefooloftheyear]

OK...I tried to say what some of the others have said more eloquently...

 

 

Here is the rub...

 

I dont even have a huge circle of friends, yet I know 3 people that left their marriages for their affair partners and are still together. The sad(ironic) part is that in all three of these cases, the MM are very wealthy. I guess its much easier when you can just tell the ex wife to keep the house and all the stuff in it to run off with the OW. So what..Let her have what she wants, let the lawyers handle all the garbage, its only money. Go and buy a new house and set up shop with the new woman. You won't hear about these success stories on this site. They are too busy enjoying their new lives to wallow in the sorrow fest that goes on here...

 

For the rest of the "regular" folks, its just not that easy. Of course kid(s) complicate everything. And I think most decent men/women dont just "run off" with the AP leaving the BS holding the bag..

 

 

Ill say this again... You(OW) really think that this person is THE ONE. Yet, because your friends, family, people on this site, etc tell you that you shouldn't wait for any man. Or that your "preset" timeframe just ran out.

 

OK great. So you give up and run off with another man or just ditch the MM altogether. Then, maybe you might meet someone better than the MM , OR.... you proceed to waste your life(or many years), with a string of losers who just let you down.

 

And if you think, "well, ill just go ahead and date other people while he gets his affairs in order, then he'll call me when he is free and we'll ride offf into the sunset", well, prepare yourself to be let down, as its just human nature that the MM is going to feel somewhat resentful for not giving him the time to get it done. Its a "betrayal" of sorts I suppose??

 

Just so I am clear, I am not saying what anyone should or shouldnt do, just know that the consequences of that action might not be what you want in the end. Everyone has their limits and I suppose that you need to go with your gut if those limits are exceeded.

 

Someone else on this site made a comment to the effect that.."Never break up with someone unless you are fully prepared for the possibility that you will NEVER get them back"...So true..

 

.02

 

TFOY

Edited January 22, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[veryconfused82]

OK...I tried to say what some of the others have said more eloquently...

 

 

Here is the rub...

 

I dont even have a huge circle of friends, yet I know 3 people that left their marriages for their affair partners and are still together. The sad(ironic) part is that in all three of these cases, the MM are very wealthy. I guess its much easier when you can just tell the ex wife to keep the house and all the stuff in it to run off with the OW. So what..Let her have what she wants, let the lawyers handle all the garbage, its only money. Go and buy a new house and set up shop with the new woman. You won't hear about these success stories on this site. They are too busy enjoying their new lives to wallow in the sorrow fest that goes on here...

 

For the rest of the "regular" folks, its just not that easy. Of course kid(s) complicate everything. And I think most decent men/women dont just "run off" with the AP leaving the BS holding the bag..

 

 

Ill say this again... You(OW) really think that this person is THE ONE. Yet, because your friends, family, people on this site, etc tell you that you shouldn't wait for any man. Or that your "preset" timeframe just ran out.

 

OK great. So you give up and run off with another man or just ditch the MM altogether. Then, maybe you might meet someone better than the MM , OR.... you proceed to waste your life(or many years), with a string of losers who just let you down.

 

And if you think, "well, ill just go ahead and date other people while he gets his affairs in order, then he'll call me when he is free and we'll ride offf into the sunset", well, prepare yourself to be let down, as its just human nature that the MM is going to feel somewhat resentful for not giving him the time to get it done. Its a "betrayal" of sorts I suppose??

 

Just so I am clear, I am not saying what anyone should or shouldnt do, just know that the consequences of that action might not be what you want in the end. Everyone has their limits and I suppose that you need to go with your gut if those limits are exceeded.

 

Someone else on this site made a comment to the effect that.."Never break up with someone unless you are fully prepared for the possibility that you will NEVER get them back"...So true..

 

.02

 

TFOY

 

thanks for that. you raise some very good points. it's become clear that i need to contact him. i did get pretty snappy with him when we parted ways before NC so i need to apologise for that in any case. though i must confess, despite all the great advice here, my choice of username still sums up how i feel. ack!!

[thefooloftheyear]

thanks for that. you raise some very good points. it's become clear that i need to contact him. i did get pretty snappy with him when we parted ways before NC so i need to apologise for that in any case. though i must confess, despite all the great advice here, my choice of username still sums up how i feel. ack!!

 

Thats completely understood!

 

I hate to use a cliche, but about all I can say is go with your gut. Weigh the options and make the decision that best suits your own personal comfort zones..

 

Best to you...

 

TFOY

[coffeebean201]

When a guy really likes us, we aren't confused.

 

So if he is making you feel confused, then maybe he is also feeling confused about the situation (ambivalent).

[stevie_23]

Yes, this is it. When our partner really is committed and loves us and there is no confusion or ambivalence on his side, we KNOW. We can FEEL it. It is SUCH a difference between this and how we feel when we're unsure and insecure.

[flattened]

No need to add words to my post or make up crap that I never said. I never did that to your posts. Everyone thinks their situation is different and more "complicated" then the next but really most of the details and differences are just fluff and it all comes down to a bottom line. Your bottom line seems to be that your prepared to make your family suffer financially and emotionally if there is someone waiting for you on the other side. You said you had made the decision to leave but now that your OW is gone you can't do it because you can't see any positive outcome for anyone.

 

I don't see where I added anything to your post. You're implying that I'm selfish and nasty and don't care about my family. I just put it in blunt words.

 

FYI, I didn't change any decisions. There was additional turmoil when I realised I couldn't honestly stay in the marriage, OW or not. That's all. There will be no positive outcome for anyone, that's just a fact of life.

 

Why should the MM be entitled to support from the OW to leave his marriage?

He shouldn't be. But, apparently in the OP's case, he IS leaving his marriage, they feel that they love each other, and in that case they should support each other. Because that's what people who love each other do.

 

Why isn't she entitled to the same support you feel so entitled to?

I have no support and I don't feel entitled to any. Yes, it's devastating to have the person you love leave you. I have some experience there. It all sucks, and the MM will have to deal with the guilt and the responsibility for causing the pain. I understand that too.

 

Who is going to love and hold the OW's hand while she is going through the pain of waiting for the MM who may or may not leave his marriage for her?

 

I'm not sure why you think I said that. What I said is that in the presence of real evidence that the MM is actually leaving, and on the understanding that the OW loves and wants to be with the MM, she should maintain some level of contact and support for him during the time it takes to get a divorce. Because it's a traumatic process and it takes time, and if she/he/they want a real relationship in the future, that's what they need to do.

 

That has nothing to do with entitlement, or waiting to see if someone will or won't do something. It's based on two people who want to be together doing what it takes to be together.

[veryconfused82]

just an update- MM got in contact today. i told him we need to talk so we are going to meet up tomorrow. still busy working out what i'm going to say. wish me luck. i will be sure to post after we have had our conversation.

 

and we are meeting in a public place, so no funny business will occur.

 

once again, thanks for the advice peeps.

[woinlove]

just an update- MM got in contact today. i told him we need to talk so we are going to meet up tomorrow. still busy working out what i'm going to say. wish me luck. i will be sure to post after we have had our conversation.

 

and we are meeting in a public place, so no funny business will occur.

 

once again, thanks for the advice peeps.

 

Just try to sort out what you want and need, and then say that clearly. In my case, everything changed once MM told his W, because we became an out in the open couple then. There was no sense of waiting, even though by law it took a year for his divorce to become final. Maybe being an out in the open couple is something you want, too, or maybe it is something else.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

I don't where to begin with this. First of all you have illustrated very well why relationships borne of affairs and divorce are nasty business and usually don't work out. When two healthy single people are starting a relationship they are usually not paralyzed by fear and indecision over every little issue. When a single man asks me, a single women, out I don't agonize over what it all means and where's it going and what if we go out tonight but then he's not there for me tomorrow? and what if I buy a new dress for my date and then it's all for nothing because he could just stand me up, and and.... Give me a break!

 

You end your marriage because you don't want to be married anymore, not because you think you got something better waiting in the wings. Which you acknowledge that if you had left your wife it would have only been to be with the OW. Then you go on to say that the MM is fixated on the OW, caught up in the affiar, not thinking clearly and the confusion is just piling up. If this is the case then wouldnt it be best to break off the affair and go not contact so the poor confused MM can see things more clearly? Yet you seem to say the opposite. You seem to think that this is the time for the OW to become relentless in her pursuit of the MM and getting him to leave the marriage and that the best time for the MM to leave the marriage is while he is in this confused angst ridden state of mind.

 

Then the list you provided of things the OW should do while the MM is ending his marriage. OMG! It sounds like you are saying the OW should relentlessly hound the MM with her feelings, demands and expectations. Let him know that she is crying hysterically every night? Demand counselling? Tell him she is going to leave him and date other people if he doesn't get this done fast enough? Have conversations about where they are going to live and where they will be in 1-5 years? Holy sh*t!! All while the MM is going through emotional turmoil at home with his family? You really think that's going to help the MM end the marriage? If the the OW did get the MM that way it would be the MM making a decision under extreme duress and it would likely all blow up later anyways. I don't know what kind of man you are but most men I know don't respond well at all to emotional blackmail and threats. Men respond to actions not words. An emotional crying woman's words tend to go in one ear and right out the other. You say the OW should tell the MM that she is going to leave him and date other men so that he will know what life is going to be like without her. How is he going to know just because the OW is yapping in ears about it? The only way he is going to KNOW what life is without her is if she does in fact walk away from him and date others. Threats to do something do nothing to further a cause. Men do not listen to threats.

 

Lastly your whole post sounds incredibly selfishly slanted towards making sure the MM's well being is the first and top priority in the situation. You seem to be telling the OP that she should now be throwing herself into the relationship fully and completely to encourage the MM to leave, even though she has no idea if this will come out in her favor. That she should risk her heart, spirit and emotional well being for the benefit of this MM. We all know that the majority of MM who say they are leaving simply don't do it when the time comes but you don't think this OP deserves to protect herself and see to her own emotional health. You appear to believe that the OW needs to somehow guarentee that she will be there for the MM when his marriage ends so that he doesn't have to have a moment of fear, loneliness, or sadness at making the decision he made. How selfish and self-serving. Everyone else goes through pain, fear, uncertainity and sadness when their relationships or marriages end but you think the MM has some some entitlement to be spared this. He needs to know that his OW will be waiting for him with open arms to mother him and baby him through everything and she will be there forever or at least until he doesn't need her anymore and decides to cheat on her too, because someone even better than her turned up.

 

Wow I guess you picked up and dusted off the text book on what to do in an affair. Sorry but everything isn't text book in real life. You can't say "just get a divorce first then go meet someone new" Wow sounds simple. Sorry real life doesn't work that way.

 

I had no intention of having an affair. I didn't plan on meeting an amazing woman that swept me off my feet. But it happened. Once it did and I got caught up in the midst of the affair, it was clear that something had to happen either leave be with the OW or stay in your marriage. In my case I was head over heals in love with the OW but other factors come in to play to make you fear or second guess your emotional decision to leave. As I stated there are many issues that can stymie a MM when he knows he has to man up and figure out what he wants. It is a confusing and emotional decision that contains many insecurities and sub plots. I am not trying to make it sound as though the MM deserves to be pitied but I am stating real things that I felt and thought. sorry it doesn't fit into the Text book evil MM.

 

I am not making excuses that it is right or moral or justifying anything. It is simply what I felt and thought when trying to decide what to do. That simple. As the MM what you do has huge rippling affect on many people. It is a big decision not to be taken lightly. If you leave your wife and kids as a MM, you are an evil man that has no balls to do whats right. If you don't leave your wife and be with the OW then you are evil for stringing her along while having your cake and eat it too. Its a no win moral decision. Affairs are indeed messy business. There seems to be pity for the OW because she is being manipulated by the MM and she doesn't know any better. But of course the MM knows exactly what he is doing right? We are calculated down the nth degree right? Wrong!!!!!!! No one gave me the MM affair text book. I went into without the manual.

 

My advice was true to what I was feeling at the time. I can tell you I was locked in a decision to stay or go. As a MM in that position I can tell you for me I couldn't see the forest through the trees. All I am suggesting that a typical MM could be locked in the same struggle and if my OW came to me shook me and said to me "while you are debating your decision just know I will not wait for you to finally decide I have a decision to make too" . That is where my heart lied. I lost site of what was important in the end. So....in the end I lost my OW for good. I regret my decision. All I was suggesting to the OP is that just know confusion abounds when making such a big decision to just communicate what you want and let him know that he can't expect you to be available to him while he spins in confusion. I just feel that if she wants him let him know what you want. That simple. And I only give this advice if she does indeed wants to be with the MM. If not, then break it off and go NC.

 

One last thing I assume you are not a MM? If not then how can you begin to tell me what i feel or think is wrong? Right or wrong it IS what I felt and thought. And from the look of some of the other posters they agree with me.

[woinlove]

 

I had no intention of having an affair. I didn't plan on meeting an amazing woman that swept me off my feet. But it happened.

 

A lot to learn about yourself in that short sentence "But it happened."

 

Seems to me you had a chance to fight for OW when you still had your M and OW was saying she still loved you, but you didn't and decided to focus on your M. Then your M ended, and now you think you should have chosen OW. This is all pretty fresh, just a month or so old. I think there could still be deeper things to learn about wanting what you can't have, making commitments, and what it means when you say it happened. It's easy to say now that if OW had only said this or that, I would have left for her. I'm not so sure you can know that.

[thefooloftheyear]

A lot to learn about yourself in that short sentence "But it happened."

 

Seems to me you had a chance to fight for OW when you still had your M and OW was saying she still loved you, but you didn't and decided to focus on your M. Then your M ended, and now you think you should have chosen OW. This is all pretty fresh, just a month or so old. I think there could still be deeper things to learn about wanting what you can't have, making commitments, and what it means when you say it happened. It's easy to say now that if OW had only said this or that, I would have left for her. I'm not so sure you can know that.

 

 

All I can add is that one of the cruelest things that could possibly happen to a MM is for the OW to abandon the relationship when/after/during the MM is actually getting a D for the purpose of being with the OW.

 

But I am sure most of the people here will say that "he got what he deserved"....

 

TFOY

[flattened]

I guess I'm the only other MM here along with WhatsTheAnswer and everything he says rings true with me. You can hate us, and think we're selfish, scum, whatever, but it's probably worth listening to us if you want a better understanding of what's going before/during/after an affair.

[woinlove]

All I can add is that one of the cruelest things that could possibly happen to a MM is for the OW to abandon the relationship when/after/during the MM is actually getting a D for the purpose of being with the OW.

 

But I am sure most of the people here will say that "he got what he deserved"....

 

TFOY

 

I did exactly that. It wasn't until his divorce was being finalized that I really dealt with the question of whether I wanted to tie my life to his. Before that there was too much drama and uncertainty to answer this clearly. Yes, he was broken up, but within months fell in love with another woman. Then, he repeated his behavior 5 or so years later, falling in love with an OW again while in a committed R.

 

I feel I made the best decision for both of us, because I wanted someone I could trust and he wanted to keep being who he was. Cruel? No, I don't think so.

[woinlove]

I guess I'm the only other MM here along with WhatsTheAnswer and everything he says rings true with me. You can hate us, and think we're selfish, scum, whatever, but it's probably worth listening to us if you want a better understanding of what's going before/during/after an affair.

 

The problem is the message isn't very clear at all. Love, but. Why is that worth waiting for? What does it mean, you couldn't love well enough or you love, but love isn't enough. I know there is real love where actions and words align and make each day better. The love, but of MM who would have been with OW, but... is clear as mud. Maybe with time you will have a clearer message as both of you are not that long out of your marriages yet.

 

And no one hates you. We just like to be loved well, with no buts.

[MissBee]

All I can add is that one of the cruelest things that could possibly happen to a MM is for the OW to abandon the relationship when/after/during the MM is actually getting a D for the purpose of being with the OW.

But I am sure most of the people here will say that "he got what he deserved"....

 

TFOY

 

I don't think it's cruel frankly, if the woman is fed up. We all have a right to leave a relationship if we feel it isn't suiting us. It is understandable how if an OW has been waiting for a MM she'd grow weary and maybe she realizes, even when divorce is in tow, that she just doesn't want to move forward with it.

 

I think it is cruel for anyone to use another as a backup plan or safety net. That is, a MM only divorcing if he can guarantee the OW will be there. That is cruel and unfair to the BS (to stay M because one's OW left) and also a lot of undue pressure on the OW to stay in the relationship because the MM left "for" her. Some As that turn open R's suffer because one person or both left "for" each other and instead of because they are done with their previous R and want to move on, whether they will end up with another person or not. I think MM/MW considering divorce should ask themselves: what if post-D my AP no longer wants a R? What if 1 year or 1 month later they don't? They have that right. If you can't fathom divorcing with that possibility...then what are you really doing?

 

In healthy single Rs people allow it to grow or not grow and decide to increase commitment or not in a natural fashion. People are hardly "owed" anything. However, it seems with As, many feel pressured to make the post-A relationship work because they left a M "for" it or to get something in return for "all they wen through". It's not a fair foundation.

Edited January 24, 2013 by MissBee