How long do I wait??

[veryconfused82]

hi everyone. met up with MM yesterday and told him my thoughts on the whole situation. he completely agreed that we shouldn't go NC as it leaves us both in the dark. i also gave him a 3 month time limit, because hey, it might seem a bit selfish, but i can't wait forever if nothing much is happening. then it does become all empty words. i'm not saying in 3 months if he's not in a R with me then i'm jumping ship, mainly if in 3 months there haven't been any real steps taken with regard to separation from the W. obviously after being with someone for 20 years, he would need time to grieve the marriage and there will probably be some major issues with the girls, so this is going to be a lengthy process.

 

some posters might think i'm silly to wait for him at all, and it is a decision i struggled with. only a few posts ago i was saying i wouldn't wait! but right now, i think i've done the right thing. and if this all turns to sh*t, then i have no one to blame but myself (probably would throw some blame at MM also haha). anyway, we shall see. but i'd like to thank everyone for their advice. i hope to post occasionally to update you all on my situation. thanks again. i'm very glad i stumbled upon this place.

[thefooloftheyear]

I didn't read all of this. I'm sorry, I probably should have before I respond, but I wanted to respond to this. I am going to be blunt, I don'tn know if that's what you want to hear.

 

Often it isn't that she wants to "abandon" him, it's that she's been strung along, her own emotions played with, ridden that rollercoaster of "I'm staying, I'm leaving, I'm yours, I'm hers" so many time that she has started to build a wall around her heart. Eventually, the wall gets high enough, enough promises were broken, dates not kept, disappointment on top of disappointment and the love dies.

It isn't that she DIDN'T love you, it's that when you had her, what she had to give you wasn't enough for your to leave your other option. She got tired of waiting. She didn't have enough faith in this time being the real thing.

It's not intentionally cruel.

She was guarding her heart. She gave up.

She'd have no way of knowing that this time... you meant it.

(Generalized you... I haven't read enough to know if this is it, but this is what I've seen told a number of times.)

 

Thats a valid aswer...

 

But then look at it this way. Its not that "it wasnt enough" as you say. In practically NO case can someone just pack up their stuff and leave a marriage at the moment(couple of months perhaps?) they fall for someone else. Its like that in the movies, but not in real life. So I guess some time is needed, no? And if all during the process they support you, give you encouragement and never really give any indication that this "wall" is being built up because you are following through on what you say. Never any wavering-just simply "time ran out". Yep, thats cool(roll eyes).

 

It doesn't matter anyway... No one in this section ever sees the other viewpoint from what I have read, so why bother?

 

TFOY

[waterwoman]

I guess I'm the only other MM here along with WhatsTheAnswer and everything he says rings true with me. You can hate us, and think we're selfish, scum, whatever, but it's probably worth listening to us if you want a better understanding of what's going before/during/after an affair.

 

How as a BS can anything you say help me though? You haven't said your wife was awful or your marriage was dreadful. All I can take from you is the bleak message 'I fell in love with OW. Deal with it' ie **** HAPPENS. Which might be true but doesn't help much

[jwi71]

Thats a valid aswer...

 

But then look at it this way. Its not that "it wasnt enough" as you say. In practically NO case can someone just pack up their stuff and leave a marriage at the moment(couple of months perhaps?)

 

I disagree.

 

It takes, at most, one hour to file for D. Ok, let's be generous and say 24 hours - maybe your lawyer's clerks can't get to the courthouse in time - or maybe its late in the day and one must wait to file by morning.

 

The PROCESS of D can take several months - even longer. But TO file - mere piece of paper announcing the lawsuit filed at the court.

 

I would be wary if nothing was filed within 48 hours (I'm being extra generous). After which it is reasonable to expect the settlement to go back and forth for a while. I'm always suspicious when these negotiations "must" happen BEFORE filing - heck, in some (many?) states there is a legal BENEFIT to being the plaintiff.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

A lot to learn about yourself in that short sentence "But it happened."

 

Seems to me you had a chance to fight for OW when you still had your M and OW was saying she still loved you, but you didn't and decided to focus on your M. Then your M ended, and now you think you should have chosen OW. This is all pretty fresh, just a month or so old. I think there could still be deeper things to learn about wanting what you can't have, making commitments, and what it means when you say it happened. It's easy to say now that if OW had only said this or that, I would have left for her. I'm not so sure you can know that.

 

My M is not over. And still think I should have chosen the OW. It has been 10 weeks since the BU with the OW.

 

I was caught up in a cloud of confusion of fear of the unknown if I left my M for the OW. That hesitation caused me to lose the OW. After being without her I know now just how much she truly meant to me. Not just that she is gone but as to how much we really shared.

 

That is why my advice to the OP was to communicate to the MM if she really wants him. I will say this though....my OW seems to be very happy with her new single guy so I guess I wasn't the love of HER life after all. So the OP needs to decide if she really wants this particular guy or if she just wants any relationship with a man.

[woinlove]

My M is not over. And still think I should have chosen the OW. It has been 10 weeks since the BU with the OW.

 

I was caught up in a cloud of confusion of fear of the unknown if I left my M for the OW. That hesitation caused me to lose the OW. After being without her I know now just how much she truly meant to me. Not just that she is gone but as to how much we really shared.

 

That is why my advice to the OP was to communicate to the MM if she really wants him. I will say this though....my OW seems to be very happy with her new single guy so I guess I wasn't the love of HER life after all. So the OP needs to decide if she really wants this particular guy or if she just wants any relationship with a man.

 

Sorry, I had you confused with another, but shouldn't your marriage be over then? Why stay married when you know you are with the wrong woman? That sucks for everyone, doesn't it? Being married to the one you want is really wonderful, whereas being married and knowing she/he is not the one you want sounds like hell on earth for both people, not to mention any children if there are any.

 

OTOH, don't underestimate how easy it is to desire what you can't have. That is part of the reason it wasn't until xMM was divorced that I realized I did not want to spend my life with him.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

Okay first of all I've never been married and I've had several long term relationships. I've never started a relationship with a new person without fully and completely ending my last relationship first. I've never even had anyone waiting for me to end my relationship. My relationships ended because I wanted them to end, not because I was leaving to be with someone else. That has never happened and it will never happen so for me, real life does work that way and it works that way because that's the way I want it to be. I'm the master of my choices and my actions. I choose how I want my life to be.

 

Secondly your long reply to me had nothing to do with my post. I didn't write anything about the morality of affairs. It was simply my opinion on if the OW should have held your hand during your divorce and if she had some kind of obligation to be with you forever because you left your wife for her. I say no. You say if the OW had come to you and told you that she wasn't going to wait for you forever that you would have left to be with her. Well isn't that pretty much what she was telling you when she went NC on you? When she stopped talking to you because you hadn't left your wife yet, why wasn't that the kick in the pants you needed to get your ass in gear and go after her? She'd already tried sticking it out with you and supporting you and that didn't work. Then she went NC and that didn't work either. I say nothing worked because you weren't going to leave either way. Do you understand how silly it sounds to say the only reason you didn't leave is because she didn't come out and actually speak the words that she wasn't going to wait around forever?!! That the outcome of this would be entirely different if she had simply spoken that one sentence? She showed you by her actions that she wasn't going to wait around for you forever, after you showed her by your actions that you weren't going to leave.

 

If you think you made such a mistake and you're so certain that you should be with the OW then what is stopping you from leaving and going after her now? If you answer that question with a list of reasons as to why it's difficult and complicated to leave a marriage then you still ain't leaving and your OW was 100% correct in leaving you, cause that's the same song and dance she already heard and she'd still be hearing it if she was still waiting on you.

 

I'm sure it is a confusing emotional decision with many insecurties as you say, which is why it's best for the OW to back off and take care of herself emotionally while the MM sorts his own crap out. Otherwise she's taking a terrible risk that is likely to do even more damage to her then the affair did. I can't imagine anything more excruciately painful then waiting on a man to leave someone else for me or leaving and then going back home because he felt guilty and didn't have the guts to see it through. If you loved your OW why would think she deserves that kind of agony? Not to mention the hell your wife would go through at being left or watching you flip flop.

 

However I don't hear you talking about anyone elses pain but your own. You talk down to me like I'm a cold hearted person who doesn't understand real life, yet you are the one who doesn't seem to have any empathy or compassion for anyone else. It's all you you you. You don't appear to have any idea of what your OW felt or how much she hurt while waiting on you. You dont' give any thought to your wife and how she would feel if she knew the man she calls her husband secretly wishes he could be with someone else.

 

I am not trying to be mean but you say you were never married so how can you comment on being in this position?. An A is not anything like a single relationship except for the feelings of love for the AP. Its a mess of lies deceit, love, sex, wanting, longing, waiting, family, kids etc. Its a whole different dynamic. When you are in a M its not as easy as saying I'll just be single today. There are many factors not there is a single relationship. These factors cloud the landscape severely for the OW and the MM. And yes I did respond as to how affected me as that was the point of my response in the first place. I stated this was "I" was thinking and feeling. I was trying to give the OP some insight into her MM. You don't have to like what I said but its what I felt during this time. It was not a justification of my A. Just use it as information. Process it. We have had the view of the OW countless times on this site. Well here is what us MM are thinking. I know MM get thrown under the bus over and over again. Everyone has a opinion but it seems that no one wants to accept reality they just want the picture of the MM cemented and no one wants to hear another side. Well that is short sighted.

 

As far as the OW wanting to change her mind. Of course she has that prerogative. But just know that is will be one of the issues the MM will struggle with making the decision. It may not be "right" to expect the OW to guarantee to be there but the OW has to also know that right to do what she wants to could be a factor of making the MM question his decision to leave. We all want security in a relationship. In this process the OW wants to know that the MM will love her and leave his W for her. The MM wants to know if he does this she will be there for him during the process. Is it morally right to expect that?? No of course not, but it's what you need when it comes to securities. remember needs and wants don't always correlate to what is "right" "moral" or just. Or else no one would ever have an A in the first place.

 

I wish you well in your life and love struggles. But with 50% of M ending in divorce, you may have to deal with a situation like this at some point. I hope you don't. But if you do you are getting a gift of insight from this website from all sides of the coin. Most don't have this information when embarking on relationship issues.

[jwi71]

Yeah, that's true. I wasn't going to get nitpicky about it, I understand the "disentangling" of things, but to me that means trying to work it out at home, not leaving.

 

100% agree. 101% agree if I could.

 

And that's actually the problem...they typically AREN'T ready to leave - or they would. So the AP is now "forced" to wait while the WS decides if the potential future is worth the D.

 

Which is why its critical to know that the WS HAS filed.

 

It sends an unmistakable message to the world that the plaintiff seeks to end the M. Before that...its ambiguous at best - always that "Am I sure the WS is leaving..."

 

Leaving might take a day or so if you have financial hardships or some other extraneous circumstances.

 

I don't agree with this. If its time to file and move on - do so.

Find a way. Enlist friends and family and institute lifestyle changes....MAKE it happen. It seems to easy to say I can't because of...<insert reason we have all seen/heard before>

 

I will never understand why people think it's so hard to leave. You get your necessities, you put it in the car and you leave. Everything is can be dealt with elsewhere.

 

I agree. Just up and go - AFTER filing for D.

 

That's THE crucial step. One that takes...however long. And each day not filed was a choice - a conscientious value decision. At that moment in time...remaining M is more valuable than not - for interminable reasons - one might say excuses (especially if the A is continued during this "decision" phase)

 

So...get that D filed. It is a positive sign that the WS truly intends to leave.

 

So...the waiting deadline is 48 hours. That's all it takes.

 

(and we wont mention that petition for D typically have a drop dead date by which, barring movement in court, the lawsuit is automatically dropped)

 

(or they can be dropped by plaintiff at any time)

 

Moral of this diatribe...the filing represents a bone fide step to leaving - but its reversible.

 

Hence the oft said refrain....step back until its FINAL.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

You shouldn't end your M ONLY when you have someone else to fall back on.

 

I think counseling is in order if this is your mindset. You have to be in an emotional place that allows you to be happy even when alone. Otherwise you aren't going to be able to form a healthy R with anyone.

 

I am in therapy. And I tried to get my W into MC but she won't go. I keep telling her we don't connect deep down anymore. I have not told my wife about the affair as my therapist advised against it if the A is truly over and I want to try to make it work with my W then don't add to the issues already in my M. He said if you want to leave then tell her but don't add to her pain if you stay. Most M's will have a hard time working out with the "punch in the stomach" of an affair revelation if its truly over for good with the AP.

 

I would like anything to make it work. If nothing else life would have been easier if my M worked and I didn't fall for an AP. But there is something missing in my marriage deep down.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

Sorry, I had you confused with another, but shouldn't your marriage be over then? Why stay married when you know you are with the wrong woman? That sucks for everyone, doesn't it? Being married to the one you want is really wonderful, whereas being married and knowing she/he is not the one you want sounds like hell on earth for both people, not to mention any children if there are any.

 

OTOH, don't underestimate how easy it is to desire what you can't have. That is part of the reason it wasn't until xMM was divorced that I realized I did not want to spend my life with him.

 

You make an excellent point!!! However, all M issues are different. Its not that we don't get along we do terrifically! We don't fight, there ate no abuse issues there is no dependency issues etc. We are not in "hell" as we are compatible in every other way. For me I am missing the deep down passion that we once head many years ago. I crave it. I miss that feeling of being in deep love with her. she seem content being roommates with benefits. I guess at this stage in life its all she needs to be comfortable. I need more. But we also have kids, a mortgage etc. Not easy to just walk away from all of these other responsibilities.

[obladi]

That's why I said 24 hours or so. Sometimes they do have to wait til pay day, borrow money, make arrangements for children if their BS is really not stable, but it should be a short amount of measurable time from the decision.

Said on Monday.

I've decided to leave my wife. I'm leaving on Thursday because that's when I have the money from my tax return and can move into an apartment.

 

Done.

 

 

I've decided to leave my wife as soon as I get the money together.

 

Not done.

 

 

That's what I meant.

 

LFH right on with that, that was me for years just promised OW butnever did it. Lucky for us shes smarter than me and told xw here we are now.She should never of waited so long tho. Listed to LFH an dont wait to make it happen.

[woinlove]

As far as the OW wanting to change her mind. Of course she has that prerogative. But just know that is will be one of the issues the MM will struggle with making the decision. It may not be "right" to expect the OW to guarantee to be there but the OW has to also know that right to do what she wants to could be a factor of making the MM question his decision to leave. We all want security in a relationship. In this process the OW wants to know that the MM will love her and leave his W for her. The MM wants to know if he does this she will be there for him during the process. Is it morally right to expect that?? No of course not, but it's what you need when it comes to securities. remember needs and wants don't always correlate to what is "right" "moral" or just. Or else no one would ever have an A in the first place.

 

You are setting up the future R for failure if you leave your M for the OW. I recall a post by an OW turned W who was wishing she had left before MM divorced, but she stayed with him out of guilt, feeling he had given up his M and family for her, so the least she could do is stick by him. Those feelings didn't disappear and then turned into feeling even more stuck with him.

 

The best indicator of whether you will be happily married, is whether you are happy single. People who know how to make themselves happy are best prepared for a happy and enduring marriage. If you are not happy single, changing partners is not going to make you happy over the long term. Mix in the guilt and feeling obliged because you left your M for your new partner, and your odds for a long-lasting R are extremely slim.

[thefooloftheyear]

I dunno...Some of you fine folks think that getting a divorce is like renewing your drivers license. Its extremely dificult, especially when there are kid(s) involved. Sure, the actual event itself isnt that complicated, but there are so many factors to consider. To say it happens in "24 hours" is just downright ridiculous.

 

I just dont see how everyone on this site just assumes the MM is sexual predator and lying and stringing the other person along with empty promises. . Sure some are like that, but you just cant assume or generalize that all cases are the same. Is it at all possible that the MM just needs the extra time, and that all he has told the OW is truthful? And why is it a huge deal to wait for someone you think "might" be the one you have been waiting for? I do realize that there has to be a time limit and it cant go on forever, but....

 

Lets play out this scenario. You(OW) are madly in love with the MM, but you decide you have had enough. Not waiting for any man any longer. You abandon the R or run off with someone else. He hasn't done anything wrong per se, you just dont want to wait any longer. Period.. You then soon find out the MM is divorced and no longer wants you because you gave up or ran off with someone else. And that person you ran off with dumps you or doesn't do it for you the same way the MM did. And now he is off with someone else and is happy...It can happen. Would you then regret the decision and wonder for the rest of your life what "could" have been??. Sure, if you find out he never leaves his wife and you are left holding the bag, then you are validated for sure.

 

And, I would think that in many cases, the OW/OM ended it, not because they fell out of love for that person, but rather because they were protecting themselves from hurt or frustration of waiting. So, in reality they cant necessarily "feel good", that the relationship ended because in most cases when a relationship ends its because one person fell out of love or no longer had any interest. In this case, it was merely that you got tired of waiting...But you wanted to protect yourself-or maybe you fell out of love because you got tired of waiting....Its understood...

 

On a side note. Speaking of "running off" with the new(OW) love. I mentioned before that I know 3 seperate cases where the MM left a marriage for the AP. They are all seemingly happy. The one common denominator in all of these cases is that the MM are very wealthy. I think in those cases it might be easier to cut ties to the BS. Just give her a pile of money and go on your way. Let the lawyers sort it out. With all of these people I know, they dont care about the money or settlement. In fact in one case I spoke to the BS as she is a customer of mine. She wasnt even that angry. She said she got a "generous" settlement, kept the house and is going to just start over. Kids are grown.

 

 

Amazing how money can change everything.

 

TFOY

Edited January 25, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[thefooloftheyear]

I bolded a couple points I'd like to address.

 

1. It's not a huge deal to wait if you have some confidence it's actually going to happen, sooner or later, or at all. Many times they stop waiting after they've been let down or shown that there is nothing to have confidence in.

 

2. He hasn't done anything wrong per say you said. Well, sometimes it doesn't have to be an action. It can be the lack of an action, a failure to prioritize something that was really important to her, or to acknowledge that she does in fact need more, or simply that one time too many, when she needed or wanted you, you opted to go home to someone else, especially if you were telling her it was awful the message being sent was "I hate my life at home, I'm miserable and it's torture, but I'm chosing to go to that rather than stay with you." Crappy message right?

 

3. Point 3, that's exactly what I said yesterday. It's not fair to expect her to commit to something that you haven't exactly committed to either. Of course she doesn't feel good about it, look around at this board, look at all the heartbroken people who would give ANYTHING to have not made that choice, to be happy, to be with the person that they wanted to be with. But they had to do what was right for them.

 

4. For some people money seems to matter a lot. I'll never understand that. I can tell you that I've never understood money standing in the way of people. People are more important than things every time.

 

You make very valid points...However allow me to respectfully rebut, if you will.

 

 

-Point1) Ok so we are in agreement on your first point.

 

-Point 2)I guess I see it a bit differently. Not that I dont respect the other persons viewpoint-I do. And maybe because as a businessman, I lead a very busy life, I dont see why its that difficult to have a "half a loaf of bread", while the MM/MW gets his affairs in order. Then you get the whole thing, perhaps...Maybe the person is just needy in general Who knows? I am not berating it, just stating a possiblity. I understand what you are saying, just dont exactly "get it"?

 

Point3) How does anyone know whether or not someone is committed? Just because it doesnt match their theoretical timeframe has absolutely nothing to do with the level of committment-(In my opinion). There could be extenuating circumstances that dictate otherwise. Its not black or white. And so you run out of time and give up. Then what? Start dating and hope you find someone? That could take years or forever. no? Yes, I do realize you can also find better, too, but you have possibly the same or maybe less of a chance of that, perhaps, no?

 

Point 4) Ive done fairly well in my life-better than most. But the reality is when you have the type of money that allows you to tell your spouse to basically have everything in the eveint of a divorce-well that does simplify things in a way. And I would also bet that many spouses that dont want a divorce arent really saying it because they are losing the love of their life, but more so because they are frightened of the prospect of having to start over with much more limited resources. AGAIN- not saying all, but I bet many....

 

TFOY

[MissBee]

 

I just dont see how everyone on this site just assumes the MM is sexual predator and lying and stringing the other person along with empty promises. . Sure some are like that, but you just cant assume or generalize that all cases are the same. Is it at all possible that the MM just needs the extra time, and that all he has told the OW is truthful? And why is it a huge deal to wait for someone you think "might" be the one you have been waiting for? I do realize that there has to be a time limit and it cant go on forever, but....

 

Lets play out this scenario. You(OW) are madly in love with the MM, but you decide you have had enough. Not waiting for any man any longer. You abandon the R or run off with someone else. He hasn't done anything wrong per se, you just dont want to wait any longer. Period.. You then soon find out the MM is divorced and no longer wants you because you gave up or ran off with someone else. And that person you ran off with dumps you or doesn't do it for you the same way the MM did. And now he is off with someone else and is happy...It can happen. Would you then regret the decision and wonder for the rest of your life what "could" have been??. Sure, if you find out he never leaves his wife and you are left holding the bag, then you are validated for sure.

 

 

 

TFOY

 

 

I wouldn't....

 

My worldview is that there is no "one that got away". That is, I believe what is meant for me will work out either today or some time later and if it doesn't, it simply wasn't meant to be. I see no purpose in wondering forever about someone who has moved on. I don't believe in one true love. I believe that I can find another person to be just as happy or happier with. Love for me has to come with the right circumstances. All the star-crossed BS is just too much.

 

I think more people waste their lives waiting around because they believe this ONE person will make them happy versus moving on and trusting that if it is supposed to work out, it will be with the RIGHT circumstances and it's okay to move on and live your life. It's like those people who refuse NC because they are scared that their ex will forget about them and move on, so they hang around waiting and hoping. Most times the ex doesn't come around and they have wasted a year, two, more. Truth is, if it is meant to work out, no amount of NC will change that. NC is a win win, because if they truly want you they will find you and if not, well you have your dignity and usually would have moved on by then anyway. I see waiting for a MM in the same way. I refuse to live my life in limbo because I'm afraid a MM or any man is my last chance so I must stick with him so he doesn't move on and in case I get dumped...smh...that's a terrible way to live...always scared of being alone and looking for a safety net.

 

 

I would NEVER expect a man to wait for me as I drag him through the mud. I would not ask that. If he moved on...I'd be sad...but if it is meant to be, then I believe that when I'm free of my entanglements he will also be free. If he isn't...it sucks...but such is life and I'm sure I'll find someone else. That's my worldview so I really never get caught up in regrets about old lovers...as if we didn't work, I assume it wasn't meant to be and I always find better. Perhaps those who fixate on this person being the one, even when it clearly isn't working out, trap themselves in an existence of regrets and are unable to find better because of their belief in this person being the one that got away.

[thefooloftheyear]

Good Lord. What a soap opera.

 

So in your scenario, the MM is resentful about being left by the OW so he goes off and easily finds happiness with someone else, while the OW is doomed to a life of regret and being alone. ROTHFLMAO. Why can't the OW end up happy too? Even in your hypothetical world you see the MM as being the only one deserving of happiness while the women in his life are destined to suffer. Did people in your childhood somehow give you the impression that women are supposed to live only to make a man happy and if they fail at that they are fated to be miserable for all time?

 

People lose people all of the time. My grandma's first husband, who she was madly in love with and whom she loved until the day she died, died suddenly of a stroke at the age of 39 leaving my grandma widowed with 3 children. She was devastated all right, but she healed, remarried and had another child with her second husband (the one I knew as grandpa) and they were happy together for the rest of their lives. She always spoke about her first husband with a great deal of love but after he passed away life went on and she went on. That's what healthy people do. They grieve their losses and then move on. If somebody is stuck in misery then they need to get therapy to get to the root cause of their unhappiness because while they may think they are miserable because they lost the one they love, that's probably not what's really holding them back.

 

Get some new reading glasses...

 

Nowhere did I say anyone couldn't or wouldn't find happiness, in fact, go back and read my previous post. I clearly state(maybe more than once?) that the person could have just as easily found someone better all the same. Thats why its a SCENARIO. Period. Sheesh,

 

And why bother using an analogy that someone died.? Sure thats a sad and unfortunate fact of life. However, the last time I checked, dying isnt a choice.

 

Holy Crap....

[MissBee]

Good Lord. What a soap opera.

 

So in your scenario, the MM is resentful about being left by the OW so he goes off and easily finds happiness with someone else, while the OW is doomed to a life of regret and being alone. ROTHFLMAO. Why can't the OW end up happy too? Even in your hypothetical world you see the MM as being the only one deserving of happiness while the women in his life are destined to suffer. Did people in your childhood somehow give you the impression that women are supposed to live only to make a man happy and if they fail at that they are fated to be miserable for all time?

 

People lose people all of the time. My grandma's first husband, who she was madly in love with and whom she loved until the day she died, died suddenly of a stroke at the age of 39 leaving my grandma widowed with 3 children. She was devastated all right, but she healed, remarried and had another child with her second husband (the one I knew as grandpa) and they were happy together for the rest of their lives. She always spoke about her first husband with a great deal of love but after he passed away life went on and she went on. That's what healthy people do. They grieve their losses and then move on. If somebody is stuck in misery then they need to get therapy to get to the root cause of their unhappiness because while they may think they are miserable because they lost the one they love, that's probably not what's really holding them back.

 

Can't like this enough!

 

I have no time to doom myself to a life of misery over "losing" a man...esp one who is not dead, just moved on to someone else. Oh please. Life certainly does go on in even more dismal conditions and I find it absurd for anyone to live in a melodrama of forever unhappiness and regret because a former lover moved on. Whatever lol.

 

That's a choice one makes. You choose to wish them well and move on and find happiness too or somehow be doomed to wander the earth with regret. I choose the former. Life is way too short and people have much bigger problems and overcome them with grace, for me to mope and sulk for all eternity because some married guy moved on. If he is happy with his new love...clearly that's where he needs to be and not with me and that means I can find my own happiness elsewhere too.

 

I hope this is just a temporary type of thought process. I remember when my ex and I were freshly broken up lots of my fantasies included me moving on happily and him being doomed to realize he gave me up as he ventured from one meaningless dalliance to another. This was normal in the beginning and comforting for me to think; but the more I healed and got more sensible, I realized that my happiness was not tied to his unhappiness. He didn't control my future happiness and even my present misery wasn't his fault. He could go on and be happy and that wouldn't block me from the same. Then I was free.

[SunsetRed]

good lord. What a soap opera.

 

So in your scenario, the mm is resentful about being left by the ow so he goes off and easily finds happiness with someone else, while the ow is doomed to a life of regret and being alone. Rothflmao. Why can't the ow end up happy too? Even in your hypothetical world you see the mm as being the only one deserving of happiness while the women in his life are destined to suffer. Did people in your childhood somehow give you the impression that women are supposed to live only to make a man happy and if they fail at that they are fated to be miserable for all time?

 

People lose people all of the time. My grandma's first husband, who she was madly in love with and whom she loved until the day she died, died suddenly of a stroke at the age of 39 leaving my grandma widowed with 3 children. She was devastated all right, but she healed, remarried and had another child with her second husband (the one i knew as grandpa) and they were happy together for the rest of their lives. She always spoke about her first husband with a great deal of love but after he passed away life went on and she went on. That's what healthy people do. They grieve their losses and then move on. If somebody is stuck in misery then they need to get therapy to get to the root cause of their unhappiness because while they may think they are miserable because they lost the one they love, that's probably not what's really holding them back.

 

well said.

[SidLyon]

I... Is it at all possible that the MM just needs the extra time, and that all he has told the OW is truthful? And why is it a huge deal to wait for someone you think "might" be the one you have been waiting for? I do realize that there has to be a time limit and it cant go on forever, but....

 

...

 

I'm wondering TFOTY, how long you think is a reasonable time to wait?

 

Even though I'm a BW I actually agree that it takes some time to divorce. In my country you need to be separated for at least a year before you can divorce.

 

While you can have a separation under one roof, the judge needs to be convinced that the separation is genuine and one aspect of this is that both parties to the marriage know that they are separated and that the couple do not lead any sort of a couple life. Usually the court requires evidence that people close to the couple are aware of the separation; including children, parents, siblings etc.

 

I would have thought provided there is some evidence that progress is being made towards a break up, that many OW would take this as a good sign and be willing to wait. In my view the biggest thing is the wife and kids know that the married couple is splitting up. If they don't, then to my mind the words are meaningless and the OW is best not waiting.

 

To the OP this would be my advice to you. If the BW and any children don't even know of your existence yet and/or that he intends to divorce, then I wouldn't advise waiting any more. On the other hand if progress is being made and this very big hurdle has been crossed, then wait as long as progress is being made. Just allowing him further time for the sake of it is unlikely to be fruitful.

[thefooloftheyear]

I'm wondering TFOTY, how long you think is a reasonable time to wait?

 

.

 

I dont really know, frankly and I wouldnt put a timetable on it. If I really cared for the other person and they showed the committment, I would wait a long time, because in the end one would think it would be worth the wait. .Years? No.

 

Sorry to be ambiguous, but you asked...

[MissBee]

LOL...I like to picture my exes winding up broke and homeless, sleeping in their car with only their happy memories of me to keep them warm at night. Plus they lose all their friends and their families can't stand them either. :lmao:

Of course that's only when the break up is new and I'm in pain. Now for the most part I think of my exes fondly and hope they have found their joy in this life.

 

 

I think we all think like that. But it would be a bit self-important to believe that someone's consequence for not waiting for us was that we moved on happily and they wandered with endless regret. I think this thought process only comes from people thinking of it as a revenge fantasy.

 

But the truth is, when you've genuinely moved on and are happy, you actually want your ex to be happy too and you're not thinking "Ha ha serve you right for not waiting!" I think you only think about this during a break up or when you're currently upset that they won't wait but not when you've actually moved on and are happily with another.

 

Happy people tend to want others to be happy too, whereas misery too likes company.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

Okay first of all I've never been married and I've had several long term relationships. I've never started a relationship with a new person without fully and completely ending my last relationship first. I've never even had anyone waiting for me to end my relationship. My relationships ended because I wanted them to end, not because I was leaving to be with someone else. That has never happened and it will never happen so for me, real life does work that way and it works that way because that's the way I want it to be. I'm the master of my choices and my actions. I choose how I want my life to be.

 

Secondly your long reply to me had nothing to do with my post. I didn't write anything about the morality of affairs. It was simply my opinion on if the OW should have held your hand during your divorce and if she had some kind of obligation to be with you forever because you left your wife for her. I say no. You say if the OW had come to you and told you that she wasn't going to wait for you forever that you would have left to be with her. Well isn't that pretty much what she was telling you when she went NC on you? When she stopped talking to you because you hadn't left your wife yet, why wasn't that the kick in the pants you needed to get your ass in gear and go after her? She'd already tried sticking it out with you and supporting you and that didn't work. Then she went NC and that didn't work either. I say nothing worked because you weren't going to leave either way. Do you understand how silly it sounds to say the only reason you didn't leave is because she didn't come out and actually speak the words that she wasn't going to wait around forever?!! That the outcome of this would be entirely different if she had simply spoken that one sentence? She showed you by her actions that she wasn't going to wait around for you forever, after you showed her by your actions that you weren't going to leave.

 

If you think you made such a mistake and you're so certain that you should be with the OW then what is stopping you from leaving and going after her now? If you answer that question with a list of reasons as to why it's difficult and complicated to leave a marriage then you still ain't leaving and your OW was 100% correct in leaving you, cause that's the same song and dance she already heard and she'd still be hearing it if she was still waiting on you.

 

I'm sure it is a confusing emotional decision with many insecurties as you say, which is why it's best for the OW to back off and take care of herself emotionally while the MM sorts his own crap out. Otherwise she's taking a terrible risk that is likely to do even more damage to her then the affair did. I can't imagine anything more excruciately painful then waiting on a man to leave someone else for me or leaving and then going back home because he felt guilty and didn't have the guts to see it through. If you loved your OW why would think she deserves that kind of agony? Not to mention the hell your wife would go through at being left or watching you flip flop.

 

However I don't hear you talking about anyone elses pain but your own. You talk down to me like I'm a cold hearted person who doesn't understand real life, yet you are the one who doesn't seem to have any empathy or compassion for anyone else. It's all you you you. You don't appear to have any idea of what your OW felt or how much she hurt while waiting on you. You dont' give any thought to your wife and how she would feel if she knew the man she calls her husband secretly wishes he could be with someone else.

 

I did talk about the pain it causes everyone else around you. And yes I was only talking about the pain it caused me. That was the point of the post. It was what I was feeling and thinking at the time. It was to help the OP insight into what her MM might be feeing and thinking. You just want to bring up the moral issues into it. That was already addressed in my previous posts. Again if you are not a MM in this situation then how can you possibly know what I went through? Just if you are the BS how can I know what you really thought or felt. You can twist any moral pontification you want but it doesn't the change you are not in my shoes.

[Got it]

All I can add is that one of the cruelest things that could possibly happen to a MM is for the OW to abandon the relationship when/after/during the MM is actually getting a D for the purpose of being with the OW.

 

But I am sure most of the people here will say that "he got what he deserved"....

 

TFOY

 

I think the issue is why you are making decisions about your marriage based on someone else. That is putting the onus and responsibility on them so then, yes, if they decide to end things your house of cards falls. I was married as well, I divorced because my marriage was done. Regardless of how my relationship went with MM, I have never regretted divorcing because that was the right decision to do with that relationship. Same goes for dMM. Even if we weren't together, he would not regret divorcing. He is at peace with it and that was the right decision for that relationship.

 

If you are divorcing for someone else. Don't. Figure out what you are looking for, weigh each relationship on their own merit and resolve the concerns. Let the marriage sink or swim of its own merits and not because someone else is in the picture.

[Got it]

Thats a valid aswer...

 

But then look at it this way. Its not that "it wasnt enough" as you say. In practically NO case can someone just pack up their stuff and leave a marriage at the moment(couple of months perhaps?) they fall for someone else. Its like that in the movies, but not in real life. So I guess some time is needed, no? And if all during the process they support you, give you encouragement and never really give any indication that this "wall" is being built up because you are following through on what you say. Never any wavering-just simply "time ran out". Yep, thats cool(roll eyes).

 

It doesn't matter anyway... No one in this section ever sees the other viewpoint from what I have read, so why bother?

 

TFOY

 

Fool, I left within a month of the affair starting. But again, the main caveat, I didn't leave for him. For him, dMM took a little over a year. And yes I supported him when needed but he fully understood that there is only so much that can be put on someone. It is a two way street and both parties' emotions, needs, and expectations need to be taken into account. If one leans too much on someone else they will bend and eventually break.

 

That is the risk that a MP takes. You are gambling on both relationships as you work through them. And while the pace was the right one for you, it may not mesh with the other party(ies). Communication is key, bottom line.

 

I know for dMM and myself, we started CC and that was key for us through the affair and throughout S/D.

[Cabin]

It is very refreshing to read a man's pov on this... Thank you for posting.

 

 

Like everyone said why wait for him? Well that very fact is one of reasons he is scared to leave. Its way more complicated than I have stated above but trying to boil it down to single post it does come down to fear. Plain and simple.

 

So...my advice to you is to do the following:

 

1. Talk talk talk!!!!! Communicate do not go NC!!!! Unless the relationship is truly over.

 

 

I have to say, you've given the OP and myself a lot to consider here.

And I agree with you.

 

Though it is much tidier and easier to put the relationship on hold until both people are legally divorced, tidy and easy don't match up with our hearts and our souls.

 

In my case, my ex-AP (now legitimate partner) has recently said that he could have NEVER dealt with the issues that raised out of ending his marriage if I hadn't been his support, his best friend, his safe place, and his future. He credits my friendship and love with helping him through some of the darkest most scary times. Had I walked out of his life, I don't know that he could have met me on the other side... the risk of, as you say, "blowing up" his whole life, without a commitment on my end, well that would be terrifying.

 

So I agree with you that many MM are more scared than they are wicked.

 

Out of curiosity, I did ask my therapist while I was in the midst of all the end of marriage and affair exposure drama, would it be best to go NC? He didn't understand how that would help our new relationship if we intended to stay together.