How long do I wait??

[Cabin]

This is a line MM say to the OW in order to keep the OW in line - so she NEVER bugs him to actually follow through with leaving his wife:

 

"My wife threatened to take my kids away from me."

 

Unless the MM is an imminent threat to his children, he will be able to share custody of his children in the event of a divorce.

 

This is exactly why speaking in broad brush generalities like this is dangerous practice.

 

One of the most strategic and vile moves made by a bitter betrayed wife is to use the kids as leverage to punish and alienate the father. Not all BWs do this, but enough do that your statement above is incredibly naive.

 

As soon as my AP started making moves to end the marriage, his ex did all of the following:

 

-took down the calendar of their events from the fridge so that he wouldn't know where they were

-picked them up early from school and wouldn't come home until bedtime

-enrolled them in twice as many extra-curriculars so that they had an activity every day of the week so that he couldn't have time with them

-signed up as a coach for every single extra-curricular so that she would be more involved than he was, sitting on the sidelines

-began having all three children sleep in her bed at night so that she could do books and prayers by herself

-tried to have him removed from the matrimonial home (to establish status quo of sole custody) by calling the children's agency on him for being "too helpful" when the children were bathing, and when that didn't work, tried on three occasions to pick a physical fight so that she could charge him with assault. The last attempt resulted in a chase as he left the home, and she called the police, who arrived and interviewed for an hour and saw no grounds to lay any charges whatsoever. Dissatisfied with the results, she laid private charges on him hoping that a domestic violence charge would certainly have him court-ordered out of the home. That didn't work either - the judge saw right through it.

 

Unfortunately, MANY women do end up using their kids to hurt their exes. And once a pattern has been established where the father doesn't see the kids or can't see the kids and the mother is their sole care provider is established, Courts will often award sole custody to the mother if they deem the children are doing well with the status quo.

[Cabin]

I guess I'm the only other MM here along with WhatsTheAnswer and everything he says rings true with me. You can hate us, and think we're selfish, scum, whatever, but it's probably worth listening to us if you want a better understanding of what's going before/during/after an affair.

 

Yes - too often when we do get a chance to hear MM's ideas on this forum, they get vilified and shot down so grotesquely that the MM stop posting.

Perhaps it would be good practice for both BS and OW to actually consider the truths you are presenting.

[Cabin]

 

I agree. Just up and go - AFTER filing for D.

 

 

I don't know what the laws are like in other places, but in Canada - Ontario specifically - if you just get up and go, you run a SERIOUS risk of losing custody and any possessions or equity in the home.

 

My x-AP's lawyers first words of advice: under no circumstances should you leave the matrimonial home until you have a custody and access order in place.

 

Otherwise, a father is basically giving sole custody to the mother.

 

Sure they can fight in out in court, but most judges look at "status quo", and if by the time they reach court, the children have been living with mom only and doing well, few judges will order a change in custody that will disrupt the children's living environments.

[woinlove]

Yes - too often when we do get a chance to hear MM's ideas on this forum, they get vilified and shot down so grotesquely that the MM stop posting.

Perhaps it would be good practice for both BS and OW to actually consider the truths you are presenting.

 

I think it was more people questioning the MMs' positions and what they expected of the OW, than being vilified. I would not have waited on a man who felt he needed a woman waiting with certainty in order to leave his marriage. I like an partner who knows how to be happy on his own. To each his/her own. But I don't think any of these MM posting here ended up with the OW, and maybe there is some truth presented here for these MM to consider too.

[woinlove]

I do try to consider the truths I present. I also always try to listen to what each side has to say. I think we all have a lot we could learn from one another.

You mentioned dismissive, sweeping generalizations. I think that's the biggest problem.

Although,sometimes people just don't want to hear things either. Just because a truth may be difficult to hear doesn't mean it's not factual.

 

I offered fairly good advice (if I do say so myself) on both sides of the waiting scenario.

Neither side really seemed to want to hear it.

 

I agree the MM get vilified though. I wish that wouldn't happen, that's a perspective I think we could all benefit from more of.

 

Vilified means to speak about in an abusively disparaging way. Do you really think some posts here are abusive towards another poster? If so, shouldn't they be reported?

 

Maybe I missed something that was deleted, and if it was deleted, does it need to continue to be discussed? Sometimes I think overblown language is used to squelch other viewpoints. Not saying you are doing this, LFH or cabin, as you may think some posts in this thread are abusive. But I'm sure we agree that abuse should be reported and removed, right?

[woinlove]

Whether we agree with or want to hear the voice of the MM or MW, they have valid input.

 

I completely agree and don't know if anyone would disagree with this. If anyone suggested they should not post, I missed that.

 

I am most interested in reading and discussing input that I disagree with or see differently.

[thefooloftheyear]

Yes - too often when we do get a chance to hear MM's ideas on this forum, they get vilified and shot down so grotesquely that the MM stop posting.

Perhaps it would be good practice for both BS and OW to actually consider the truths you are presenting.

 

 

Yep...its a tough crowd here...No doubt.. Id imagine though many BW troll this section and nothing any guy says is going to fly. Frankly, if people hadnt quoted me I would have deleted all my posts...

 

TFOY

[thefooloftheyear]

I think it was more people questioning the MMs' positions and what they expected of the OW, than being vilified. I would not have waited on a man who felt he needed a woman waiting with certainty in order to leave his marriage. I like an partner who knows how to be happy on his own. To each his/her own. But I don't think any of these MM posting here ended up with the OW, and maybe there is some truth presented here for these MM to consider too.

 

 

You are absolutely correct..Theoretically its best to just split up, then move on to another relationship when you have fully processed the divorce.

 

But more often than not(and this is the case with both men and women), if they are in bad marriages, and are in the process of or are discussing a split, the OW/OM becomes the impetus. I dont know the stats, just an observation of the people I know that are divorced. They finally left because another person came into their life. So, in effect they didnt leave for that person per se, the pieces were already in place they just gave them the final push..

 

.02

 

TFOY

[woinlove]

You are absolutely correct..Theoretically its best to just split up, then move on to another relationship when you have fully processed the divorce.

 

But more often than not(and this is the case with both men and women), if they are in bad marriages, and are in the process of or are discussing a split, the OW/OM becomes the impetus. I dont know the stats, just an observation of the people I know that are divorced. They finally left because another person came into their life. So, in effect they didnt leave for that person per se, the pieces were already in place they just gave them the final push..

 

.02

 

TFOY

 

But not ideal, no? Unless a MM or MW is callous enough to really put themselves out there like a single person while still married, what's the chances that the one or two people you decide to first cross the line with and consider as a romantic interest, while still making your spouse think you are in a monogamous marriage, is really one of your better matches? On the other hand, if one is determined to try to make an R work, there's a reasonable chance you can make it work, even if it's not close to an ideal match.

 

Right now you may think OW is "the one" that got away. Maybe you'll still think that a decade from now, or maybe you will be glad things went the way they did. It's difficult to know when the feelings are still fresh and one hasn't fully moved on yet.

[thefooloftheyear]

But not ideal, no? Unless a MM or MW is callous enough to really put themselves out there like a single person while still married, what's the chances that the one or two people you decide to first cross the line with and consider as a romantic interest, while still making your spouse think you are in a monogamous marriage, is really one of your better matches? On the other hand, if one is determined to try to make an R work, there's a reasonable chance you can make it work, even if it's not close to an ideal match.

 

Right now you may think OW is "the one" that got away. Maybe you'll still think that a decade from now, or maybe you will be glad things went the way they did. It's difficult to know when the feelings are still fresh and one hasn't fully moved on yet.

 

 

Yep...I guess you just dont know......We'll see what happens, I suppose.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

TFOY

[Got it]

But not ideal, no? Unless a MM or MW is callous enough to really put themselves out there like a single person while still married, what's the chances that the one or two people you decide to first cross the line with and consider as a romantic interest, while still making your spouse think you are in a monogamous marriage, is really one of your better matches? On the other hand, if one is determined to try to make an R work, there's a reasonable chance you can make it work, even if it's not close to an ideal match.

 

Right now you may think OW is "the one" that got away. Maybe you'll still think that a decade from now, or maybe you will be glad things went the way they did. It's difficult to know when the feelings are still fresh and one hasn't fully moved on yet.

 

While I agree that one should try and make a marriage work, I do not think that trying hard enough to "make a R work, there's a reasonable chance you can make it work, even if it's not close to an ideal match" is a great recipe for success. Sure it can be "good enough" but that is where a lot of the trouble started in the beginning. If it is a square peg and a round hole you can try all you want but at the end of the day you end up exhausted and and not much to really show for it.

 

So sure, you don't know how you are going to feel until you look backwards. But that swings both ways. You need to assess what steps you have taken, steps that you feel you could still take and then listen to your gut. If you feel you have done everything possible, then move forward. If you feel that there are still avenues you can pursue, then pursue them. But at the end of the day you have to assess for yourself, what do you want for your life and what decisions will have the least regret regardless of their outcome.

[veryconfused82]

If he wanted to leave it would be a night of talking to his wife, a day of telling his kids and he'd be out the door and never live there again. He'd go to friends or an hotel or whatever until it was completed. There are no "affairs to set in order first" no "respectful way to dump your wife for your mistress". Both of you are kidding yourselves if you think there is.

 

He should just get out of the lives of his wife and kids as fast as possible of he cares at all about them.

 

Clearly he only cares about his own comfort and having 2 women hanging about for him. And using marriage counselling to transition is just evil and cruel.

 

i disagree on that. i would consider it more cruel for a H to announce "cya i'm moving out tomorrow, nice knowing you". especially for a W who, up until that point, felt that their marriage wasn't in any real strife. i imagine the kids wouldn't do too well out of that, either. just my opinion.

[truthbetold]

i disagree on that. i would consider it more cruel for a H to announce "cya i'm moving out tomorrow, nice knowing you". especially for a W who, up until that point, felt that their marriage wasn't in any real strife. i imagine the kids wouldn't do too well out of that, either. just my opinion.

 

Interesting, so you can see how that would be cruel. But yet by your own admission NOTHING is wrong with the marriage, no real strife the kids wouldn't understand it. So WHY is he leaving instead of working out the problems? And what makes you think the problems or his ability to work them out will be so much better with you?

[veryconfused82]

Yes it is cruel to leave when there's nothing really wrong with the M. But that cruelty is already done and you were complicit in it. I hope you feel good about that because you will both live with the consequences. There's a lot spoken of BW "using the kids". Kids aren't stupid. And kids judge. And rightly so. I hope they judge him harshly for it.

 

actually, no, i don't feel good about that. like I said, it is just my opinion. you are welcome to contradict that but I feel like you are bringing your own issues into the mix here with the tone of your message. this is the OW forum, not the BS forum. cheers.

[veryconfused82]

The two of you initially went NC.

He breaks NC to tell you he allegedly told his wife that he was in love with you.

Upon hearing these touching words, you have sex with him.

After you have sex, he tells you he needs to go NC with you.

 

And you don't think there's just a teeny, tiny possibility that he told you what you wanted to hear so you would sleep with him?

 

not at all.

Edited January 26, 2013 by veryconfused82

[woinlove]

While I agree that one should try and make a marriage work, I do not think that trying hard enough to "make a R work, there's a reasonable chance you can make it work, even if it's not close to an ideal match" is a great recipe for success. Sure it can be "good enough" but that is where a lot of the trouble started in the beginning. If it is a square peg and a round hole you can try all you want but at the end of the day you end up exhausted and and not much to really show for it.

 

Re the bolded, I was referring to the relationship of the two AP, who got together when one or both were already married. Even though one may not have connected with the same large pool of potential romantic interests as a single person, and so ultimately the match may not be ideal over the long term, that if they really want to make it work long-term, they can. Of course, that would apply equally well to the M. But people can learn and maybe from the failed M, they would be more motivated to make it work this time around.

[truthbetold]

You know, something doesn't exactly make sense and I see why you're "confused".

 

You said that the wife doesn't think there are any problems so it's normal for him to want to "ease" out of the marriage and not be "cruel" in your words.

 

But your opening post you said that he told her he loved you and this was confirmed from a mutual friend. That just sounds completely odd to me. Especially weird that a friend of hers would tell you that instead of remaining neutral, she doesn't seem much like a friend to the wife at all.

 

If he really did tell her he loves you then I fail to understand what is going to take 3 months to figure out. For you to say she doesn't think anything is wrong is blatantly false as her husband just told her he loves another woman! Don't you think that is something that would definitely cause strife and be a reason for him to get moving sooner rather than later on divorcing?

 

I can't imagine that she was told he loves you and she's willing to just stick this out for however long and stay in a humiliating sham of a marriage as that is what it would be if he loves another.

 

Regardless it's sad you find yourself "confused" and think that's normal because of the situation. In love, you should never have to be confused or in doubt of how much you mean to the other person. If there are ever any doubts or confusion or wondering this or that or any fear then it isn't a healthy relationship, but I suspect you will need to work that out on your own.

 

But especially in your unique situation where he supposedly told his wife about you, I don't see anyway possible that you should need to give him 3 mos time to "see" where he is at. If he didn't tell her and you needed to be a secret then perhaps the 3mos thing would make sense. But since the cat is out of the bag so to speak, it doesn't make any sense that he his prolonging her misery of being with a man that doesn't love her.

[woinlove]

veryconfused, it is difficult, perhaps essentially impossible, to really know what goes on in someone else's marriage. In my experience it is the area that MM can most easily lie about to the AP, because unless you are taking directly to the BW about her M as well, he's not going to get found out. And marriages, like any long R, are complex, so even when MM thinks he is telling the truth, he may not be because he may be speaking from his own insecurity, insensitivity, wishful thinking, resentment, whatever.

 

Consequently, waiting in your own relationship, based on what is happening in someone else's marriage, is not a good state to be in. Might be better to focus on enjoying what you have now in the A or getting on with a life which isn't waiting for someone else's M to end. The MM typically want you to wait while they do whatever between them and their spouse, but that is looking out for their own needs, not for yours. You need to look out for yourself and make sure that you are happy with your life right now.

Edited January 26, 2013 by woinlove

[WhatsTheAnswer]

You are absolutely correct..Theoretically its best to just split up, then move on to another relationship when you have fully processed the divorce.

 

But more often than not(and this is the case with both men and women), if they are in bad marriages, and are in the process of or are discussing a split, the OW/OM becomes the impetus. I dont know the stats, just an observation of the people I know that are divorced. They finally left because another person came into their life. So, in effect they didnt leave for that person per se, the pieces were already in place they just gave them the final push..

 

.02

 

TFOY

 

That is exactly what happened in my situation.