Who's naive?

[buckeyeblue]

Little jealous? I'm not the idiotic, needy freak so many wives love to stereotype on here.

 

Little insecure? Bent made a reference to a six figure salary in her post. I was merely teasing her. I would NEVER be jealous of you. I feel sorry for, I pity you.

 

BTW, I am a very well paid attorney. I do just fine.

[bentnotbroken]

Not saying he would have been justified. Again, I'm simply asking if you would have been surprised. Cheating usually becomes the focal point when in reality there were problems before. Not all cases, but many.

 

 

I don't think any one is disputing there might have been issue before the marriage.....but when the the bomb of cheating is thrown into a relationship it is like triage...you treat the most critical injury to get to asses the underlying problems to deal with them. And the "many" sex thing...yeah mmmkay.

[OtherWoman1971]

Then why didn't you leave before you had an affair?

 

Look.......I know we all make mistakes, I'm a fow myself but your logic I'm not getting.

 

I had a timeline in place for my exit. Completely independent of that, I met someone and made a decision to enter into a relationship with him. None of it was a mistake. Everything was deliberate. Ideal? No but I take responsibility for all of it.

[OtherWoman1971]

Little insecure? Bent made a reference to a six figure salary in her post. I was merely teasing her. I would NEVER be jealous of you. I feel sorry for, I pity you.

 

BTW, I am a very well paid attorney. I do just fine.

 

No need to pity me. I'm doing just fine.

[bentnotbroken]

I don't think any one is disputing there might have been issue before the marriage.....but when the the bomb of cheating is thrown into a relationship it is like triage...you treat the most critical injury to get to asses the underlying problems to deal with them. And the "many" sex thing...yeah mmmkay.

 

 

Dammit....I flubbed again. Clearly it is past my bed time. That should have said access.

[buckeyeblue]

I don't think any one is disputing there might have been issue before the marriage.....but when the the bomb of cheating is thrown into a relationship it is like triage...you treat the most critical injury to get to asses the underlying problems to deal with them. And the "many" sex thing...yeah mmmkay.

 

"asses" - what that a Freudian slip?

[bentnotbroken]

"asses" - what that a Freudian slip?

 

 

No, a moscato, old woman should have been in bed awhile ago slip.

[waterwoman]

I've yet to read a post ....who took any responsibility for their marriage at least being in trouble. Not saying that trouble justifies the affair but it certainly should remove your utter shock. Thoughts?

 

Try reading a bit harder then.

 

Many people or preface their thoughts with the comment "I knew things weren't great". All marriages go through bad patches, most of us believe that things will get better. They don't believe their spouses will betray them. That is the nature of marriage IMO. I have learned the hard way that for some people 'for better or worse' actually means 'for better or worse (as long as it's only a little bit worse and you don't get sick or need too much attention while I am surrounded by people who tell me I'm bee's patellas'

 

BTW most 'sexless' marriages turn out not to be at all when examined closely.

 

Naive? Maybe. I think most people would call it 'trust'. But I thought he had my back. He chose to stick a knife in it.

 

I guess naivety comes into it when you don't read the script beforehand. I didn't. I didn't think I needed to. I didn't even know there was one. However after nearly 30 years one 6 month affair that ground to a sudden halt when I found out suggests I wasn't too naive

[OtherWoman1971]

You must have been seething at yourself for staying in that marriage all those years uh? Perhaps you are misdirecting some of the anger at yourself for staying in a bad marriage for so long at other women. Anger can make you cold and calculating and passive aggressive if we allow it to. I suspect you tell yourself you deserve to have what you want now no matter the cost to someone else who is unaware and you justify it cause inside it's a tiny bit about a big fu to the world and you feel entitled. Yeah, you put up with all that crap before in your marriage and from your husband..........but here is the kicker, you chose to put up with it. You were a willing volunteer.

 

I wasn't seething in the least. It was a deliberate decision for the welfare of my children. I made the most of it and was very happy in every other aspect of my life.

 

I don't feel entitled to anything. I take responsibility for all of my decisions and anything that has resulted from it. I've never tried to justify my affair. I made a decision, went with it, and have no regrets.

[neveragain34]

As a former OW, I'm embarrassed that you would even ask such an ignorant question, making the rest of us look worse than we already do. You are the naive one, not the BS.

 

My exMM told me everthing yours probably tells you, putting all blame on wife for straying and saying they were in a sexless marriage for years. I was the naive one for believing that, not her. Then one day when I finally talked to his wife, she had a completely different story. She was a devoted wife who took care of him just as much as I did and they had a lot of sex as well. Granted they didn't have sex three or four times a day like we did, but that's because she was busy also being a mother to their two kids, keeping the house clean, going to school, and making sure dinner was on the table every night, all of which take a lot of energy, things the OW doesn't have to deal with while living in fantasy land with their MM.

 

There's also wives out there that don't have sex with their husbands because they have no motivation to. Their husbands may have forgotten about romance, foreplay, and making their wives feel special. Of course the OW wants to sexually devour their MM every chance they get because MM are very good at making the OW feel like the most amazing woman alive. Perhaps if they gave the same attention to their wives, the wives would be all over them as well.

 

To answer your question...yes, betrayed wives can be surprised when their husbands break their vows. The only thing these wives are guilty of is being married to selfish, horny, lying scumbags, but if putting some of the blame on them makes you feel better about your part in coming between someone else's family then so be it.

[underwater2010]

I wasn't seething in the least. It was a deliberate decision for the welfare of my children. I made the most of it and was very happy in every other aspect of my life.

 

I don't feel entitled to anything. I take responsibility for all of my decisions and anything that has resulted from it. I've never tried to justify my affair. I made a decision, went with it, and have no regrets.

So you have no regrets.....did you ever apologize to his wife? What did you tell your children when your marriage ended? What do you tell them when you bring new men into your life?

[OtherWoman1971]

So you have no regrets.....did you ever apologize to his wife? What did you tell your children when your marriage ended? What do you tell them when you bring new men into your life?

 

His wife never found out.

 

I told my children ending the marriage was best for everyone and reassured then they would still have both of their parents.

 

I don't bring any men around my children.

[OtherWoman1971]

The OP says the wife is a crappy wife who nags him every day of his life and makes him miserable. Poor xMM always puts himself last and the crappy wife also doesn't meet his needs like she can. xMM was at his breaking point and they were going to get married and spend their lives together . . . but he couldn't leave because of the (teenage) kids.

 

I don't think she's going to apologize.

If anything, I think the OP would probably feel entitled to a "thank you" from his wife - thanking HER (OW) for giving poor xMM the love he deserved for the three whole months they were together.

 

Oh Alice, how you do oversimplify things. You read a lot into my posts. I never mentioned marriage.

 

He never got to a breaking point. I made the decision to end the relationship.

[OtherWoman1971]

Yes you most certainly did.

Would you like a link to your previous thread?

 

Geez, saying we discussed the concept is not a plan for marriage. What we discussed was taking our relationship out of the affair. Marriage was way down the line.

[SidLyon]

Oh Alice, how you do oversimplify things. You read a lot into my posts. I never mentioned marriage.

 

He never got to a breaking point. I made the decision to end the relationship.

 

Yes you did actually.

[OtherWoman1971]

You said he was at his breaking point and started an affair . . . because he claimed his wife wasn't giving him sex.

 

I thought you were referring to a breaking point in my relationship with him.

 

He did reach a breaking point with his wife. You don't want to believe that but it does happen.

[OtherWoman1971]

No, it wasn't down the line.

He future faked. In other words, you got played.

 

I didn't get played. Funny how he showed up at my front door with divorce papers huh? Yes, his wife has been served.

 

Sometimes the MM actually does leave when faced with the possibility of throwing away happiness.

[SidLyon]

Yes you did actually.

 

Tried to edit to add, but too late:

 

Edited to add: OK I see you've now addressed this, but we are not mind-readers. You definitely mentioned marrying him.

[OtherWoman1971]

And this breaking point resulted in him choosing to stay with her? I'm so confused...

 

His breaking point resulted in him being open to an affair.

[neveragain34]

I take responsibility for my children's welfare and happiness. I gave my all to my marriage for 15 years. He cannot say the same. He assumed I'd never leave and has admitted that in MC. Too little too late, especially considering he hasn't changed.

 

I left the marriage with my head up and my dignity intact. No regrets or second guessing that I worked to try and make it succeed.

 

So if he assumed you'd never leave, I'm sure he was pretty surprised when you finally did. Go figure.

[MissBee]

I'm really not trying to create a firestorm here but I have to ask....

 

I've read a lot here and the OW/OM board about naive APs. While I realize cheating is a betrayal, for those BS's who quit being intimate with your spouse, what did you expect to happen? Seriously, if you decided you don't need sex, or rarely want it, how can you be surprised when your spouse looks for sex, and quite frankly, intimacy on other levels, elsewhere?

 

Again, I'm not trying to stir the pot but I've yet to read a post on this board of one spouse who wasn't surprised or who took any responsibility for their marriage at least being in trouble. Not saying that trouble justifies the affair but it certainly should remove your utter shock. Thoughts?

 

I'm not a BS and haven't been in the situation.

 

One thing your post made me think of is the fact that if this is true then OW are merely warm and willing vaginas then. As the only reason they are sought after is because this MM is not getting it at home. However, if the wife suddenly decides to turn it on, would they be discarded? I don't know. I guess the naivety then would be for an OW to assume that she is valued besides her willingness to sleep with the MM.

 

But that's an aside thought. To comment on the meat of the matter: I think it depends on the dynamic. From the OW point of view, which I was before, my AP did not say he wasn't having sex...he was. He was in an A and still having a sexual relationship with his SO. Even if I wasn't all but told, I think I would have assumed it as I'd feel naive to believe otherwise. Why was he cheating? I don't know...but it certainly wasn't lack of sex. I think lack of sex in a marriage should be handled by the couple, like all issues, and one shouldn't simply go out and get some elsewhere. Are there cases where one spouse is unreasonable and just stops sex out of spite, boredom, not caring? I'm sure. But many times it's not that simple. Usually, as with most marital issues, it's a two way street. For me...if out of spite and for months/years I made no effort sexual and did not have sex with my spouse, yes, I'd think he'd be resentful and upset and perhaps even cheat and I'd see how that happened. I can't imagine doing that without rhyme or reason though and in my future marriage I would hope we'd be able to be transparent and communicate with each other first before simply seeking refuge/sex in others.

 

I do think it's a real problem when spouses feel neglected that they gravitate towards people willing to dote on them and have sex with them. I do think it's important that the couple ensures that their relationship is providing love, security, affection etc. so that seeking others is not that tempting. I do think some MP are "happily married" and cheating and getting sex and cheating and some aren't so that makes them more vulnerable to an affair. I think it stands to reason that if you're in a M you deem happy where there is plenty of sex an A comes as more of a shock than if you're in one where there is tension/little to no sex etc. But I think sex alone is a VERY shallow marker and excuse and as an OW I'd be insulted if I felt like the MM missed sex so wants me to fulfill that void.

[MissBee]

It takes two people to make and sustain a sexual, intimate relationship, just as it takes two to make a successful marriage. A marriage is not all about sex, it is complex and multi layered, if a marriage or any relationship is to succeed it takes both to talk and look at the why's, very often this doesn't happen when there is a period of no sex, very few celibate relationships are because just one decided to stop. Were I an AP, I think I would find it very insulting to think that I had been approached simply to fill a sexual need. As a BS, I would also pack my H's bags if he had stepped outside our marriage simply for sex.

 

I had chemo and our sexual relationship dipped for around 6 months while I had treatment, the intimacy not so, had H not felt able to not understand that he would have had my foot behind him as he exited our marriage. There is a whole world of difference between not having sex and a person witholding sex - it takes two to Tango, as they say. I really don't think it is as simple as the BS not wanting sex and the couple not having a sexual relationship. If this did happen and the WS had tried to address it and the BS had said, they did not want a sexual relationship, then I would hope the WS had the balls to either say it was not acceptable and lay down their needs, as in I will get it elsewhere or I will leave.

 

Nothing excuses an A, what goes on within a marriage is between a husband and wife, if either aren't happy, they should discuss it and if it isn't what they want or need, leave or explain they will be exploring another relationship or getting it where they can. This allows the other to make an informed choice.

 

Beautiful post!

 

You've explained, more eloquently, some of what I was trying to convey.

 

I don't think not having sex and withholding are the same things. Withholding usually has spite, resentment etc attached, which is not about the sex, but other marital problems as well. Not having sex due to an illness, or certain pressures, or less sex because of kids is a different matter entirely.

 

I also think good marriages where emotional intimacy is central can survive periods of no sex. I love sex when I'm in a relationship but some of the best aspects are the intimacy we share that have nothing to do with sex and those times make me feel so much closer to my SO. Sometimes I don't want to have sex, I just want to cuddle, have him whisper in my ears, tell each other jokes, spoon, cook together, kiss on the forehead, get told I'm beautiful, hold hands, hug etc. These are all intimate and wonderful and don't involve intercourse. I think healthy couples can do this for a period and it not be a red flag or the beginning of the end. In fact, there are couples who do not believe in sex before marriage, and are very much inlove and in a relationship and not having sex.

 

Lack of sex, when not a bold-faced lie, is usually so much more than simply no sex, most times it's also marked by no affection and emotional intimacy. I think when transparency, communication, intimacy and genuine affection are there partners don't withhold sex and if for some reason they aren't having it, they can weather it more so than couples with a host of other issues who alienate each other. If I were ill and couldn't have sex and my H slept with another...I'd lose all respect for him and consider him a selfish prick. If I was tired from having to work and take care of kids and if he wasn't helping but expected sex, I'd not want to have it and I'd be upset with him and if he cheated I'd think him a selfish prick. If however, out of the clear blue sky I said you know what...no sex for you sir...and I started being distant, showed no affection etc. then I wouldn't be surprised if he did seek comfort in another. I don't think most cases are the latter though...more often than not, no sex, is about other marital issues that BOTH play a role in and not just about one sex-withholding meanie being unfair to some loving, devoted spouse.

[waterwoman]

Actually, thinking about it again, I guess I am naive. I'd rather stay that way than become cynical and distrustful.

[Lillyfree]

i admit to being naive.

 

well, i was cynical and guarded to start with. then i've allowed myself to become naive, by opening myself up and trusting the other person.

 

have to say - back to being cynical and guarded. i'm hoping it wears off in time

[seren]

Not that long back, me and H attended the wedding of a young couple in my H's squadron. He has both legs missing, an arm and is unable to have penetrative sex, yet the love they both have and the intimacy is evident to all. It is extremely naive to think that people who live together on a day to day basis and who choose to stay together don't share intimacy. It might get overlooked from time to time as outside pressures intrude, but that is what sharing a life rather than a bed together is like sometimes.

 

I am sure there are some marriages that are very broken and they are usually those where a divorce has been discussed, but for the BS who never suspect an A is taking place, I would bet that intimacy is present in the marriage, otherwise there would be no reson to stay especially after a D Day.