Pathological Lying and eMM

[Lue]

Hi- I am currently 3 days with NC. Yay!!!

 

I have a question about pathological liars. I've been doing some reading trying to figure out the mind of the eMM so I can avoid it like the plague next time. I originally thought he was a sociopath or perhaps had a borderline personality disorder, but he doesn't meet a lot of the criteria. Most of the time people with those issues lie for gain. And while some of the lies definitely were to benefit him (ie lying to me about be married)...a lot of them were for absolutely no reason at all. For example, he told me he had a masters degree in education and that he had been a teacher. My sister called me today (she's really fired up about the whole situation and wants to make sure I never get back together with him) and told me this was a total lie. He also told me lots of stories about encounters he had with famous people while living in NYC and I think alot of those were made up too. And super early on he told me this story about his nephew being sexually molested by a neighbor and there being a big trial. I had never advised him ANYTHING about my history of sexual abuse- in fact I told him about it approx 3 mos later because I thought "he'll understand because of his nephew". But when I told him and mentioned how it caused me to worry about his nephew, he was like "Huh?". I actually had to remind him about the story, and which point he remembered it, told me he thought I meant his other nephew, and then told me a more elaborate version of the story.

 

 

From my limited understanding of sociopaths, they lie to gain your trust and the upper hand. The lies that they tell are specific and they often mirror your behavior and interests. But I don't have a masters degree, I am not interested in teaching, I hate The Hobbitt (that was what he said he wrote his masters thesis on). The famous people he told me about were not celebrities i would be interested in (ie David Crosby!).These weren't lied for his own gain- its like he had this alternate fantasy world.

 

 

Clearly he's not to be trusted, has a serious mental issue, and needs alot of help. And he's not my concern anymore. But I can't ask him about it because 1). We're not speaking and 2). I wouldn't believe his answers anyway. So does anyone have any insight on this?

[jwi71]

Worry less about becoming a lie detector or understanding the xMM.

 

The far better path - the better Q's- are what red flags did you ignore?

Why did you choose to ignore them?

 

Walk that path - it has far better dividends.

[Lue]

Thanks- I think the biggest thing I am learning from this experience is not to feel bad if I have questions or needs. Normally, if a question came up, I would be like "you can't ask that because he might think you're pushy". So I would just push it down and smile. Now I see all these red flags that I consciously saw at the time, but thrust away

[ow9]

Oh, sister, I hear ya.* I told my exMM that my brother has a patent (which he does) and he went on and on about how he had one too.* Cool.* Well, I looked it up after we went NC; yeah….there’s no record of him having a patent.* Ever.* Like, what is the POINT of telling me something like that?* Was he just making stuff up for the sake of making it up?!

 

You’re definitely at the stage where a lot of the gray areas are finally becoming less gray.* You realize there was A LOT of lying and it drives you wild because now you have no idea what was real, and what wasn’t.

 

Hang in there girl…I’m on day 40 of NC.* And those 40 days and 40 nights have been the best I’ve had in a while.* It’s gets better…I promise.

[Quiet Storm]

My sister has Borderline Personality Disorder. She lies about all kinds of things, too. It is common in Borderlines. Their "personal gain" may be the fact that they can create a different version of themselves with their lies. they can make themselves sound more interesting, more compassionate, or whatever fits the circumstances. Some recent trials have involved defendants with a history of pathlogical lying, Casey Anthony & Jodi Arias.

[Spark1111]

You do not have to have any disorder to lie for attention and to impress someone who has NO WAY of checking out the facts.

 

If his goal was for you to be impressed and admire him, well, lying was a tool to impress you.

 

If that resulted in personal gain of your attention and affection, it could be symptomatic of a personality disorder or not.

[Lue]

Honestly- he shows about 6-7 of these characteristics

[Lue]

But some of the big ones- vanity, lack of empathy, wanting the best of everything, impossible goals...those aren't there

[Lue]

That's as very very very good point...one I had not thought of before. Because even if he was a compulsive liar he would still show a great deal of empathy for his wife and he certainly didnt. He would probably just make up lies to impress her...he wouldn't have needed the external validation of my love and attention too

[buckeyeblue]

Lue - I honestly don't know how you prevent yourself from falling into the trap of such a liar. Experience helps, but you certainly don't want to live a life where you are distrustful about everyone. This guy seems to have lied to you about EVERYTHING.

 

I am glad that your sister has your back. I think that, going forward, your spidey senses will be more heightened to bu**sh*t. Don't be afraid to ask questions - someone who is defensive about questions has something to hide.

[Lue]

I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around it now...when I first found out I was soooooo angry! Then I was devastated and then I get trying to find reasons and justifications for why what he did wasnt so bad. I am done with that and the magnitude of the situation is starting to sink in. He lied about so much. Also, I have a best friend with a 10 year old daughter who has had issues with compulsive lying. With this child, it's always been related to emotional stress and has been for a short period of time. For example, when her parents got divorced she did it for a few months and then a few years later when he grandfather died she did it again. But this doesn't seem the same somehow- because that child was literally eaten up with guilt about the lies almost immediately after telling them. She would not have been able to keep up the pretense of a lie for 6 months. Now, maybe if they didnt get her treatment it could evolve into that level of compulsion but I don't know.

[spice4life]

Hi- I am currently 3 days with NC. Yay!!!

 

I have a question about pathological liars. I've been doing some reading trying to figure out the mind of the eMM so I can avoid it like the plague next time. I originally thought he was a sociopath or perhaps had a borderline personality disorder, but he doesn't meet a lot of the criteria. Most of the time people with those issues lie for gain. And while some of the lies definitely were to benefit him (ie lying to me about be married)...a lot of them were for absolutely no reason at all. For example, he told me he had a masters degree in education and that he had been a teacher. My sister called me today (she's really fired up about the whole situation and wants to make sure I never get back together with him) and told me this was a total lie. He also told me lots of stories about encounters he had with famous people while living in NYC and I think alot of those were made up too. And super early on he told me this story about his nephew being sexually molested by a neighbor and there being a big trial. I had never advised him ANYTHING about my history of sexual abuse- in fact I told him about it approx 3 mos later because I thought "he'll understand because of his nephew". But when I told him and mentioned how it caused me to worry about his nephew, he was like "Huh?". I actually had to remind him about the story, and which point he remembered it, told me he thought I meant his other nephew, and then told me a more elaborate version of the story.

 

 

From my limited understanding of sociopaths, they lie to gain your trust and the upper hand. The lies that they tell are specific and they often mirror your behavior and interests. But I don't have a masters degree, I am not interested in teaching, I hate The Hobbitt (that was what he said he wrote his masters thesis on). The famous people he told me about were not celebrities i would be interested in (ie David Crosby!).These weren't lied for his own gain- its like he had this alternate fantasy world.

 

 

Clearly he's not to be trusted, has a serious mental issue, and needs alot of help. And he's not my concern anymore. But I can't ask him about it because 1). We're not speaking and 2). I wouldn't believe his answers anyway. So does anyone have any insight on this?

 

Wow, to lie just for the sake of lying sounds like a sign of craziness that you should avoid in any way you can. If he is lying for no particular reason then what other craziness is he capable of? He sounds like someone who is out of touch with reality and that's just scary! I would get as far away from this situation as you can. He could just be plain crazy.

[neveragain34]

Stay strong Lue! Right now you are angry but will soon begin to miss him and will convince yourself that his lies weren't that bad or tell yourself that you are willing to accept them because its easier being with him than without him.

 

I am a former OW who had the misfortune of falling for a narcissist who was very good at lying and charming. Not the lying your exMM is doing, but lying about being single, never loving anyone as much as me, etc. He made me feel like this amazing woman and once I found out he was married, I was willing to look past it because the wife didn't live here and he convinced me their marriage was over years ago. When I finally spoke to her, I realized it was all lies and he was a serial cheater, hurting women time and time again.

 

Interesting that you say you were sexually abused. I was too and usually narcissists (or other scumbags) can smell our insecurities from a mile away. We are easy targets for them because they know that all they need to do is give us some attention and compliments and we will fall for it and be putty in their hands. If you realize this and learn from this mistake, you will be able to avoid men like him in the future.

[2sure]

It's part of the alternate universe fantasy land some MM create with OW.

Some of them say they never have sex, or their wife is dangerous alone with the kids, or they work 10 jobs and she stays home to eat chocolate in the bath tub.

It's a way of making themselves look like martyrs of knights. They almost always inflate their jobs, and make themselves former athletes.

 

Who the f knows why. It's part of the appeal of an affair. It isn't just about sex.

 

To this day, I found out all about a guy before I take him seriously .

[Lillyfree]

Stay strong Lue! Right now you are angry but will soon begin to miss him and will convince yourself that his lies weren't that bad or tell yourself that you are willing to accept them because its easier being with him than without him.

 

i can second this. once i was away for long enough i started making excuses and justifying OM's behaviour.

 

in time, it will stop hurting, you'll stop being angry. but don't ever forget the pain you went through. and keep telling yourself that no one in the world is worth that pain!