She was 'the other woman'

[Decorative]

So you're able to define 'secure' for every single R then? You can sit online and say without a doubt that every single A has no feelings of security so we all have OCD trying to keep it all together. Good to know because that's certainly not what I was feeling. Not what a lot in here have felt. Not what a lot of people I've read on other boards have felt. Guess we were all wrong "girls".

 

You totally felt it. He didn't say you did not feel it.

 

He differs on the reasoning you give it.

[jwi71]

Hey so any help is appreciated. I'm almost divorced, (wife had affair with best friend) and we've had to wait a year of separation to get divorced.

 

How did YOU contribute to your M and its ultimate unraveling?

Can you identify the mistakes you made? What were they and why?

 

Because I'm of the impression this woman is rebound - her fate was sealed before you even met her.

 

I've been sleeping with this woman for the past 5 months, just started dating her this month.

 

So she was promoted from f_ck buddy to GF.

She validated you sexually and now it feels good to be wanted and needed. BTDT.

 

It doesn't get better until you begin to truly answer the Q's above. My experience anyway.

She tells me that she was the 'other woman' and broke up another couples relationship. We ran into the couple it happened with (guess they got back together) and it was very awkward and hostile experience and i was like wtf and that's why she told me about it. Said she didn't want to tell me because she knew I'd just come from a situation like that. Now I'm a little concerned. She's remorseful about what she did.

 

Its nothing. I wouldn't worry about it unless she shows you behaviors consistent with a serial cheater. Does she? What are those symptoms? Do you believe one month of dating is sufficient for you to detect such patterns?

 

But once being the OW or even the WS is NOT a permanent stain on one's life - its not a death sentence for Pete's sake.

 

If you really want to know - ask HER.

Ask her if she values the institution of M. Ask her to reconcile her past behavior with her answer. Ask her "why"? And listen. What does she say?

Does her answer resonate with you? In other words...do you believe her?

 

By seeing her am I setting myself up for another fall?

 

Yes - but not because of her past - because of YOURS.

Have you recovered enough to trust? To give of yourself? Have you healed?

Or is she rebound?

 

Is it a bad idea to date her? Or does she deserve a chance?

 

In reverse order...of course she deserves a chance - she isn't Hitler.

Bad idea? I am clearly wary of jumping from one R to another w/o having first mourned and healed and learned from the previous. I think it leads to no one ever growing and learning. I would keep sleeping with her but I would be wary of having any type of R - jut a bed buddy.

 

The very fact you are having issues with trust should be a red flag. Her past, to me, is simply justification.

[Got it]

OP - I think this is an area for you two discuss. She should be able to go through the whys she was in an affair, what she learned from it, and what changes has she made to not be in one again (or no changes). Walk through the thought process, break down the lessons and see if this is now someone that you think you are a good match with.

 

We all make mistakes. I believe a very common saying is "we learn from our mistakes not from our successes." I know that when I was dating again I was very cognizant of any men who did disclose that they had been an MM. I went on a date with one, a very nice gentlemen and we were very open and honest about our two stories. I wanted to hear his thought process, I wanted to hear his why's, I wanted to hear what he learned from it. After hearing that story, and a few other things I decided that he was not someone I wanted to date further but a very nice person that I stayed friendly with. I didn't hear what I wanted to from his relationship with his wife. He is in a seemingly happy relationship now, I wish him well, but didn't feel we were a match.

 

I don't think it is always that way. I know what I learned from my affair, I know what I learned from my marriage, I know better what I will do and not do, what I will accept and won't accept and how I recognize those internal slippery slopes in my relationship, the cross roads.

 

I completely understand if someone wouldn't date me because of my past. I don't think it defines me, I think I learned a lot, and I am at peace with whom I am today. But it is there choose like mine and to each their own.

 

I think it is that personal boundary and what is a deal breaker for you and what isn't. Someone who has been in an affair may have a better understanding of the whys and about themselves and are a "safer" bet than someone that has never deep dived their relationships, boundaries, etc. Or they are not. It really depends on the fine print that takes getting to know a person to know. There is no guarantee that someone won't cheat whether they haven't cheated before, were a WS, an OP, or a BS. All groups have had affairs after being touched by one. And there is always the time when someone cheats for the first time. Just can't predict it.

 

But with time, counseling, communication, you may be able to observe enough to make a good educated guess.

 

I wish you all the best.

[woinlove]

Hey so any help is appreciated. I'm almost divorced, (wife had affair with best friend) and we've had to wait a year of separation to get divorced. I've been sleeping with this woman for the past 5 months, just started dating her this month. She tells me that she was the 'other woman' and broke up another couples relationship. We ran into the couple it happened with (guess they got back together) and it was very awkward and hostile experience and i was like wtf and that's why she told me about it. Said she didn't want to tell me because she knew I'd just come from a situation like that. Now I'm a little concerned. She's remorseful about what she did. By seeing her am I setting myself up for another fall? Is it a bad idea to date her? Or does she deserve a chance?

 

It doesn't sound good that she didn't want to tell you because she knew your own situation. A good relationship relies on open and honest communication, and when you know there is an issue that could affect your partner, that is the time to talk about it. Instead she waited until it created an embarrassment for you two. On the other hand, maybe you two are not that close yet and she was waiting for more intimacy before opening up.

 

As to whether to continue with her, if you like her, I'd suggest more communication before making that decision. Ask her why she is remorseful, what she thinks about infidelity in general, if being an OW is not compatible with how she likes to treat others or to encourage the man she is with, have her explain that. If you come to understand how she thinks about these things, then you can decide if your values align or not.

 

Many single OW have never been unfaithful and will not be. I'm one of those. It still says something about how you like to treat others, whether it bothers you if the person you love is deceitful with others, whether you're willing to be part of that deceit, etc. Or at least how you felt about those things when you were an OW. I would not want to be an OW again.

 

Finally, people can learn from their own poor behavior and change. By discussing all this, you can learn if she feels like she changed and how confident she is of that.

 

Btw, I don't consider my time as an OW a mistake. It reflected my values at the time. I've changed and it no longer would reflect how I like to treat others. To me, it was bad behavior, not a mistake.

Edited January 22, 2013 by woinlove

[skywriter]

Thank you.

 

I am not generalizing, but your experience is rather common. Many women try to date Single Men after the affair ends and the rush is not the same. I must have read about this in the forum more than a hundred times.

HUh? What the heck?

[Got it]

Girls;

 

This is basic love brain physiology 101. We ll know that when the chase is over the romance becomes calm and less rushed.

 

When the relationship is not secure there is more OCD and a greater rush to see your partner. This is not rocket science and yes it applies to all types of relationships.

 

Pierre, you can wax professor all day long. I have lived it and I know what I experienced. I live with the man, I have been living with the man for years, the affair has been over for years, to romance didn't change from the affair to the other relationship.

 

None of my relationships have been OCD. Having had a spouse with OCD I am very familiar with it and this relationship did not carry any traits like that.

 

Pierre, state and believe what you want. I am not a textbook learner on this, this is real life experience. Based on my relationship it was not as you describe. But little of my relationship has ever been like you have described they would be both pre and post affair. Luckily I didn't go look for the "experts" to tell me how it should be and set it up the way I wanted it and allowed it to be.

[jwi71]

The OP lost his marriage due to infidelity and now he is dating a woman that hid the fact that she was a recent OW. She only confessed after the ugly incident. So this lady was already lying to OP. She is up to no good.

 

I find it nonsensical that there is an expectation to disclose "everything" after one month of dating (preceded by four months of sleeping together). The "what is in your past" discussion comes at the cusp of being an exclusive R - not the beginning - and one month in makes this the beginning.

 

Even if we discount the timing I am not likely to take one incident and allow it to "Erase" all the good in this woman. Patently unfair.

 

I agree with Got it - she didn't tell simply because she KNEW his past and how it was likely to affect him. It was done out of empathy - and a desire to keep the R going.

 

The past is the past.

 

The lady in question did the very same thing that broke OP's marriage.

 

Incorrect. She was the OW not the WS. She was half an A but did not violate any vows we are aware of. Apples to oranges.

 

And you have the balls to question his doubt about trusting this woman?

 

Clearly I do.

 

IMHO, the woman is not good for OP. He needs to be single for a while and find a different type of woman..

 

Again your prejudice rears its ugly head. Having once been an OW or even a WS does not worthless one make.

 

I can tell you right here and now...I think, for the right man, my xWW would be a fine partner and W. Why wouldn't she?

 

What is the difference between OW and MOW?

 

The letter M. I like these easy Q's...

 

OP was with MOW and now OP is with OW.

 

I must have missed that...so the OP was with a MOW and now an OW?

 

Because what I read was his W left him for his best friend. Did I miss something?

[skywriter]

Just because she was involved with a married man doesn't mean she cheats. I have never once cheated on anyone nor do I lie.

I'd find out exactly what the circumstances were before making any decisions.

Come on now LFH! Iron on that scarlet letter, you know, once a cheater always a cheater! (Said with sarcasim)...

[Got it]

I agree with the above. Some folks do these things only once and learn.

 

Knowing everything there is to know about affairs takes the fun away and may prevent affairs.

 

Again, I was in the affair for that specific man. Unless we are in a situation again where the factors are all lined up that that specific reason rears its head and I have the same level of desire to be with him, then that would be the exemption to my statement.

 

Again, it was man specific, not relationship style specific.

[woinlove]

I disagree.

 

The OP lost his marriage due to infidelity and now he is dating a woman that hid the fact that she was a recent OW. She only confessed after the ugly incident. So this lady was already lying to OP. She is up to no good.

 

The lady in question did the very same thing that broke OP's marriage.

 

And you have the balls to question his doubt about trusting this woman?

 

IMHO, the woman is not good for OP. He needs to be single for a while and find a different type of woman..

 

What is the difference between OW and MOW?

 

OP was with MOW and now OP is with OW.

 

Re the bolded: I think there is a difference in how actively you are involved in deception. You can be a really bad liar, like to be honest yourself, and still pull off being an OW, although this does depend somewhat on circumstances. Not so easy to pull off being a MOW.

 

I do wonder about this woman not telling him while thinking to herself it was relevant. But, we'd need to know what conversations they had, how close they were, to know how big a red flag that is. Clearly the topic of infidelity was discussed, since she knew her being an OW could be relevant to him, but the OP is the best judge of whether she really had to hold back not to bring this up during their conversations. Maybe they just haven't been that intimate and open with each other yet. Or maybe her solution to dealing with potentially difficult topics is not to disclose.

[Got it]

You are misinterpreting my prose. I used a bit of hyperbole and a metaphor when I said LOVE is OCD. I did not mean to say it was an illness. I simply meant to say that when one is in love one only thinks about the loved one and sometimes these thoughts are very intense.

 

The OCD is greater when there are hurdles along the way.

 

Yes but when you use the wrong wording, you do not clearly identify where you are going sideways with the terminology, etc it makes for very difficult reading and clear misunderstandings.

 

Clearly by your last statement you do not know a thing about OCD as OCD is not impacted by "hurdles". Sigh.

 

It is like saying ice cream is better because of being in an affair. Makes no sense.

 

I seriously now feel like Alice. Tea party anyone?

[Decorative]

Yes but when you use the wrong wording, you do not clearly identify where you are going sideways with the terminology, etc it makes for very difficult reading and clear misunderstandings.

 

Clearly by your last statement you do not know a thing about OCD as OCD is not impacted by "hurdles". Sigh.

 

It is like saying ice cream is better because of being in an affair. Makes no sense.

 

I seriously now feel like Alice. Tea party anyone?

 

I have OCD.

 

Before therapy ( and still sometimes) if I cannot do the behavior that unlocks my brain from the pattern ( example- I need to touch the bottom and top of a lights witch 7 times before leaving a room, or at least I did, until I was treated) the pressure builds in my brain and my heart pounds and it feels awful. It's anticipation and need to do something, all rolled into one.

 

I found the beginning of love relationships to be the same- that chemical mixture, that drive, that feeling thwarted if plans did not work out, and the emotional high when they did.

 

I know what Pierre means. I get it. It makes sense to me. When you don't have instant access to something your brain or body craves- the longing intensifies.

 

like cake. I really want some cake right now. but I have no cake . So I will keep thinking about it fondly. LOL

[Got it]

I have OCD.

 

Before therapy ( and still sometimes) if I cannot do the behavior that unlocks my brain from the pattern ( example- I need to touch the bottom and top of a lights witch 7 times before leaving a room, or at least I did, until I was treated) the pressure builds in my brain and my heart pounds and it feels awful. It's anticipation and need to do something, all rolled into one.

 

I found the beginning of love relationships to be the same- that chemical mixture, that drive, that feeling thwarted if plans did not work out, and the emotional high when they did.

 

I know what Pierre means. I get it. It makes sense to me. When you don't have instant access to something your brain or body craves- the longing intensifies.

 

like cake. I really want some cake right now. but I have no cake . So I will keep thinking about it fondly. LOL

 

Decorative, thank you for your post, you explained things in a better way. I see what you are saying. For my ex, his OCD moments were a bit different. But then the things he obsessed on he had full access to so that is where the longing piece wasn't first and foremost for me.

 

I did like the cake reference, made me chuckle.

[Decorative]

I do like cake! LOL!!

[sabre80]

She wasn't just the other woman once but multiple times and broke up several multiple relationships. She could have a complex of some sort where she gets validation by breaking other relationships up. Sorry to say but I doubt she would respect your own relationship enough for fidelity.

 

Not only this but she is going to be a trigger for you reminding you of your spouses past infidelity.

[Got it]

Yes, she explained it much better.

 

I want to reiterate i was using figures of speech. I will be more careful next time.

 

That is hard to do when all communication is through the written medium. The nuances of sarcasm, tongue in cheek, etc. that are most obviously enhanced or decreased by non verbal cues are obviously missing. So short answer, it is falling flat.

[firstandlast]

Thank you.

 

I am not generalizing, but your experience is rather common. Many women try to date Single Men after the affair ends and the rush is not the same. I must have read about this in the forum more than a hundred times.

 

I have a feeling that this is more true for single OW than married OW. When the woman is married, there's still the element of secrecy and obstacles (their own husband) to provide that rush -- and without the frustration of the OM's marriage.

[Radu]

Ask her to tell you the whole sordid affair and see if there is any regret or longing in her voice.

Besides that, watch her actions, and if by any miracle you get married, ask for a prenup.

[sweet_pea]

Talk with her.

 

Consider all of the points you've made: your past relationship & how it ended, the fact that she hid this 'part' of her from you (although she did eventually tell you), that she appears to be remorseful and so on.

 

Take all of that, along with discussing with her your feelings + hers and then decide if the relationship is worth it.

[Quiet Storm]

My impression from reading here for many years is that most women are not in affairs because they want to be in affairs. Most genuinely feel that they love the man but hate the affair.

 

It seems that many tolerate the affair situation in order to keep him in their lives, because they often assume (or are told by MM) that the affair is a step towards him leaving the marriage and being together.

 

In most cases, though, I don't really believe that they "love" the man. If you break down the man's character, the bad often outweighs the good. MM are usually very flawed, and often display negative character traits such as conflict avoiding, lying, passive agressiveness. However, OW often believe these character traits are situational- resulting from being "stuck in a bad marriage". Most don't see MM as having poor core character, but see him as a good person in a bad situation. Usually with time and space away from MM, she will see his character issues more clearly.

 

Often times the betrayed wife is aware of his character issues, which causes her to lose the admiration she once felt for her husband. These type of men thrive on admiration and validation, so when the wife stops praising him and validating him with her emotional support (because she feels he's undeserving), he looks elsewhere to get those needs met.

 

I think in most cases, OW loves the way MM makes her feel. Since he inspires such intense feelings in her, she feels that she loves him. She labels it "love", and is rarely introspective about her own issues that could be fueling the feeling. Past emotional, physical or sexual abuse, and abandonment issues, especially ones related to the relationship with her father, are common in OW. OWs vulnerability, and her willingness to tolerate situations that go against her standards and values, are important to the affair dynamic because most emotionally healthy women would not volunteer for or tolerate an affair.

 

MM are very attentive because they don't have a large pool of women to choose from, like single men do. Once they find a woman willing to partake, they will give her lots of attention and ramp up the romance because they want her to feel special. They have to make her feel strongly enough and special enough that she will tolerate the fact that he is married and continue the affair. The feeling MM is looking to inspire is "he thinks I am so special that he will risk it all for me".

 

Although I don't believe most married men intentionally use intermittent reinforcement to strengthen the bond, the end result is the same. The usual affair dynamics (push-pull, or he swings between being super attentive and not so attentive) create an uncertainty that fuels the passion. The sadness when you miss him, coupled with relief you feel when reunited, is so addictive and creates a dopamine response in your brain, like cocaine.

 

I believe people are capable of change, but I also think we can and should use past actions to judge a person. I think a person with strong character will stick to their values, regardless of the circumstances. For example, the singer Leanne Rhymes has explained her affair as wrong but said something along the lines of "my body wouldn't let me stop". The fact that she sees herself as a helpless victim of her body's responses is telling. A person with a strong character would be able to control themselves. If they do not want to be in an affair, then they won't be in one. Regardless of the man, the intensity of the "love" or the circumstances.

 

JMO.

[dichotomy]

If I understand the first part - you are saying she was simply a booty call for a while, then you decided to date.

 

In any case, the question for me would come down to whether I thought there was real remorse and regret and honesty - but only if you think this might be heading towards a serious long term or exclusive relationship . If is a just FWB, or casual relationship with sex, I am not sure how important it is to dig further since she said she regrets it.

Edited January 22, 2013 by dichotomy

[WakingUp]

Goodness me, give the girl a chance.

 

She probably didnt disclose the fact she was an OW because she was embarassed and ashamed of the whole mess. Then she came clean when it was obvious there was a situation.

 

I certainly dont feel that I need to disclose every mistake I have ever made... let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

All this analysis of her character... and character assasination is very unfair.

 

Just go with it OP, it will work out or it wont... you will know soon enough whether she is a person of good character or not.

 

We all make mistakes, we all get conned from time to time... let it go.

[Lillyfree]

How did YOU contribute to your M and its ultimate unraveling?

Can you identify the mistakes you made? What were they and why?

 

Because I'm of the impression this woman is rebound - her fate was sealed before you even met her.

 

 

 

So she was promoted from f_ck buddy to GF.

She validated you sexually and now it feels good to be wanted and needed. BTDT.

 

It doesn't get better until you begin to truly answer the Q's above. My experience anyway.

 

 

Its nothing. I wouldn't worry about it unless she shows you behaviors consistent with a serial cheater. Does she? What are those symptoms? Do you believe one month of dating is sufficient for you to detect such patterns?

 

But once being the OW or even the WS is NOT a permanent stain on one's life - its not a death sentence for Pete's sake.

 

If you really want to know - ask HER.

Ask her if she values the institution of M. Ask her to reconcile her past behavior with her answer. Ask her "why"? And listen. What does she say?

Does her answer resonate with you? In other words...do you believe her?

 

 

 

Yes - but not because of her past - because of YOURS.

Have you recovered enough to trust? To give of yourself? Have you healed?

Or is she rebound?

 

 

 

In reverse order...of course she deserves a chance - she isn't Hitler.

Bad idea? I am clearly wary of jumping from one R to another w/o having first mourned and healed and learned from the previous. I think it leads to no one ever growing and learning. I would keep sleeping with her but I would be wary of having any type of R - jut a bed buddy.

 

The very fact you are having issues with trust should be a red flag. Her past, to me, is simply justification.

 

everything that i would have said

[Silly_Girl]

Thank you.

 

I am not generalizing, but your experience is rather common. Many women try to date Single Men after the affair ends and the rush is not the same. I must have read about this in the forum more than a hundred times.

 

And it can be exactly the same after breaking up with someone who wasn't married. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

[Silly_Girl]

Um, no. While some people may enjoy it for many the fact they are married and the "hurdles and unavailability" is actually a pain in the butt and a definitely pain.

 

I dealt with being in the affair for the man, I was not in an affair to be in an affair. There are too many issues to deal with, for myself, to do that on a regular basis. I do not agree that from my experience that MM are better at courting. Has your experience differed? I didn't know you played for the same team!?!

 

What I found remarkable was the beginning of my relationship with dMM was extremely similar to the beginning of my relationship with my ex husband.

 

My experience was that being married made courting more difficult, and posed all sorts of issues that meant being 'smooth' was simply not an option