Did something about being the other woman turn you on?

[angelofdarkness]

My situation is weird and different. I met a married man in my apartment building. We got along, he'd invite me over to the house - I think just to get to know me better. I was in turmoil over a man I was deeply in love with and the married man provided a sort of escape. We slept together - he said all the right things; he loved me, he wanted to be with me, blah blah. I never fell for it though and I never fell for him either. He was just a f*ck in my eyes. I ended up moving away a couple of months later.

 

Somehow we've managed to keep in touch - at first he was still hot and heavy over me, but it lessened as the years passed. We became Facebook recently and he invited me over to his house for dinner - with his wife present, of course. I brought my boyfriend. We had plenty of laughs, food, and beer, heck, we even sung karoake.

 

We haven't spoken at all about what happened between us, and probably never will.

 

At the time we were together, I did find it seedy, but exciting. He was older, mature, and sophisticated and it turned me on. Of course, it's a secret he and I won't be revealing to our significant others anytime soon.

[woinlove]

Skywriter I was responding to the idea that OW got all the blame, WHs get off easy and BW just say "oh you're sorry, ok we're soooo happy now". That's nonsense. Yes some OW do suffer from the rejection, but you're surely not saying they should NOT be rejected and the family torn apart? Surely not.

 

It still amazes me that there is never "OMG I never thought of why she is going through and will for a long long time, possibly forever. I never thought about how gut-wrenching it is when your own children are triggers. I couldn't be more sorry."

 

I have never seen that. I applaud hose who have come close. I think OW9s letter was a great step in that direction. There have been others. But not many, not many pause to think they as outsiders might feel rejection but they don't have the rebuilding pain, and they don't have the pain of losing the precious early years of their children's lives to grief.

 

It's too much of a cop out to say "oh I made a bad choice. People change". If that line was true then MM would be getting off easy. They can run that line too. But I know of no woman who would let him get away with that. a bad choice is wearing white as a wedding guest. This is a considerably bigger deal. If it wasn't there wouldn't be long long threads about Ow pain of rejection.

 

You are correct that the change is not something trivial or easy. It's neither a bad choice like a dress nor a mistake. A person cutting in front of a long line because she isn't paying attention and doesn't realize there is a line, is a mistake. A person who repeatedly cuts in front of long lines because she doesn't like to wait and thinks her time is more important than others is not making a mistake but is showing her values and priorities.

 

Similarly, affairs show one's values and priorities. Some people are conflicted and feel at the time an affair is against their values, but they still are making the choice to violate those values that they feel they hold (or maybe feel they should hold or would like to hold). For those who see nothing wrong with affairs, obviously nothing to change. For others, it requires a shift in repeated behaviors (repeated throughout the affair) and that does not come about trivially or easily, but it can be done. Those who see is as a once-in-a-lifetime-alignment-of-the-stars made me do it, may find those stars aligning once more.

 

In this thread, I think ImperfectBeauty is questioning what draws her to a MM and looking for answers to be similarly drawn to single men. That is a good thing to question.

[Spark1111]

I understand the friends dropping from a divorce perspective, as I experienced that. The community, I don't get, as they shouldn't be privy to your personal life. Marriage specifically, unless you choose.

 

My H wasn't faithful, I "chose" to never involve our children as it shouldn't involve children anyway.

 

There again, we all have the right to make our own choices and deal with our crisis as we choose.

 

I understand the divorce leaving one financially and emotionally vulnerable. What a coincidence...that's when I met a MM, who decided to step out of his marriage.

 

my children were young adults and adored their father. we were very active in our community, especially when it came to children, and enjoyed a wide circle of friends and acquaintances.

 

his affair was with a co-worker and some people we both knew worked there.

 

I chose none of this, believe me. it was chosen for me. I just got to deal with the aftermath of their choices.

[Decorative]

So what could this ow do to help YOU? And why are you giving her that much power, since the affair is over?

 

Would it help if she came crying and begging and apologizing, no rationalizations, no excuses, no bs, she fully owned it? Would it help YOUR anger heal?

 

This is your marriage now, and she is out of it, so the focus should be on you and your healing, right?

 

I am so confused.

 

I was unaware that MFH was a betrayed spouse?

[stevie_23]

Maybe she, her sister, her friends have ALL been BS. Maybe even by the same MM. lol. Ugh. Sorry. That's not funny at all.

 

She made the comment way back in this thread about there being a special place in hell for people who cheat on a pregnant woman.

 

I may be jumped on here, potentially by everyone, but a pregnant woman is not necessarily innocent, an angel, perfect, completely never at fault simply because she’s pregnant.

 

My ex-MM DID cheat on his 2nd wife while she was pregnant with their 2nd child. He didn’t want kids. Back in the 70s when they were married, their families and society in general, the man didn’t just leave a pregnant woman. It was frowned upon severely, so he stayed. He told her for years he didn’t want kids but she got pregnant anyway the first time, and then when it happened again, he couldn’t cope. He felt lost and unhappy, disrespected and like his feelings didn’t matter. Like he was invalid in the relationship. And I think this is why he kind of took himself out of the relationship. It was all about the baby that was coming, which he didn’t want, and he remained in the relationship superficially only. He went to work, came home, was “there” but not. And he felt like it wouldn’t have made a difference either way.

 

I’m not excusing what he did, but I don’t think this situation is necessarily any worse than any cheating or affairs. Cheating is bad in any situation. Cheating on a pregnant woman is not always any worse.

[Decorative]

Maybe she, her sister, her friends have ALL been BS. Maybe even by the same MM. lol. Ugh. Sorry. That's not funny at all.

 

She made the comment way back in this thread about there being a special place in hell for people who cheat on a pregnant woman.

 

I may be jumped on here, potentially by everyone, but a pregnant woman is not necessarily innocent, an angel, perfect, completely never at fault simply because she’s pregnant.

 

My ex-MM DID cheat on his 2nd wife while she was pregnant with their 2nd child. He didn’t want kids. Back in the 70s when they were married, their families and society in general, the man didn’t just leave a pregnant woman. It was frowned upon severely, so he stayed. He told her for years he didn’t want kids but she got pregnant anyway the first time, and then when it happened again, he couldn’t cope. He felt lost and unhappy, disrespected and like his feelings didn’t matter. Like he was invalid in the relationship. And I think this is why he kind of took himself out of the relationship. It was all about the baby that was coming, which he didn’t want, and he remained in the relationship superficially only. He went to work, came home, was “there” but not. And he felt like it wouldn’t have made a difference either way.

 

I’m not excusing what he did, but I don’t think this situation is necessarily any worse than any cheating or affairs. Cheating is bad in any situation. Cheating on a pregnant woman is not always any worse.

 

Men who don't want babies should not have unprotected sex with the baby's mother and then have an affair when she is carrying his child.

 

 

It's not rocket science.

[stevie_23]

Men who don't want babies should not have unprotected sex with the baby's mother and then have an affair when she is carrying his child.

 

 

It's not rocket science.

 

I know. lol. It certainly isn't.

 

The wife said she was on the pill. And yes, I know, oldest trick in the book.

[stevie_23]

Stevie, I know you probably think why am I riding your ass so hard.

 

Something in you reminds me of my former screwed up self, so I want to reach out to you and I'm sorry if I come off as harsh, but lady.......pls pull your head out of this guys arse.

 

He is an admitted serial cheater. They lie about anything and everything, they take some morsel of the truth and twist it and bend it to make themselves sound better or else tell outright lies. Hon......you you never even met him. What makes you think you can believe anything he said??? Why are you hanging on to that he told you the truth? This man dumped you without a word, how many times?

 

Geebus, if he absolutely didn't want children, he should have got himself fixed but no.........he had kids, poor man, he couldn't help it. lol

 

And you are excusing what he did, to these other women and yourself. I just wish you would stop. Why are you so afraid of admitting what those who have followed your story, can see?

 

Because it hurts too much to believe he never loved me.

 

To believe he is incapable of true love.

 

It makes me feel stupid and worthless to think I gave so much love to someone like that.

 

I always try to understand the reasons behind everyone's actions, because it makes it easier to live with them when they don't automatically make sense to me.

 

And don't worry about being hard on me. I can take it. I know you mean well.

[Lillyfree]

Maybe she, her sister, her friends have ALL been BS. Maybe even by the same MM. lol. Ugh. Sorry. That's not funny at all.

 

She made the comment way back in this thread about there being a special place in hell for people who cheat on a pregnant woman.

 

I may be jumped on here, potentially by everyone, but a pregnant woman is not necessarily innocent, an angel, perfect, completely never at fault simply because she’s pregnant.

 

My ex-MM DID cheat on his 2nd wife while she was pregnant with their 2nd child. He didn’t want kids. Back in the 70s when they were married, their families and society in general, the man didn’t just leave a pregnant woman. It was frowned upon severely, so he stayed. He told her for years he didn’t want kids but she got pregnant anyway the first time, and then when it happened again, he couldn’t cope. He felt lost and unhappy, disrespected and like his feelings didn’t matter. Like he was invalid in the relationship. And I think this is why he kind of took himself out of the relationship. It was all about the baby that was coming, which he didn’t want, and he remained in the relationship superficially only. He went to work, came home, was “there” but not. And he felt like it wouldn’t have made a difference either way.

 

I’m not excusing what he did, but I don’t think this situation is necessarily any worse than any cheating or affairs. Cheating is bad in any situation. Cheating on a pregnant woman is not always any worse.

 

 

i don't agree with things MFH says and tbh find her militant repetitive approach ridiculous at times.

 

i also don't believe in sky fairies and the concept of heaven and hell.

 

but i'll have to disagree with you that cheating on a pregnant woman isn't any worse. because the H can bring home diseases that not only put his W, but also his child in danger. pregnant women are hormonal and need support, attention and affection. the stress if she finds out about the A can risk the health of both the mother and child.

 

the line has to be drawn somewhere.

[Decorative]

I know. lol. It certainly isn't.

 

The wife said she was on the pill. And yes, I know, oldest trick in the book.

 

You have zero idea if this is true.

[stevie_23]

Oh. I never thought about the diseases when pregnant thing. That's very true.

 

And it's true about if she finds out, the stress could endanger the baby. Very true as well.

 

I stand corrected in terms of those aspects.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a woman not "changing" and automatically being a better or more deserving or innocent person just because she's pregnant and needs extra attention, etc. If she knew the husband didn't want children but wanted them so went ahead and had them anyway, I guess...on one hand, if she sees he's still there, she must believe he WANTS to still be there on some basic level or else he'd leave...so he SHOULD therefore support her properly. But on the other hand, she knows he doesn't want kids, and so...should she feel entitled to expect him to be there more than if she wasn't pregnant...

 

I don't even know what I'm saying anymore!!

[stevie_23]

You have zero idea if this is true.

 

Oh yeah, for sure. I have no idea. It was a billion years ago. Who knows.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

i don't agree with things MFH says and tbh find her militant repetitive approach ridiculous at times.

 

i also don't believe in sky fairies and the concept of heaven and hell.

 

but i'll have to disagree with you that cheating on a pregnant woman isn't any worse. because the H can bring home diseases that not only put his W, but also his child in danger. pregnant women are hormonal and need support, attention and affection. the stress if she finds out about the A can risk the health of both the mother and child.

 

the line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

I know I wasn't doing real sex with him and I was a total virgin so I had no stds.. That's just my situation. I don't think she gets a free pass for being pregnant though I mean he didn't even want a kid, we were like 19. But he should have used a condom I guess lol

[stevie_23]

I think it's kind of more about taking responsibility for your own choices. A man who doesn't want kids has to either leave the relationship if the woman really does seriously want, and need, to have kids to be happy, or stay and take responsibility and be there for her. No matter how bad it looks. If he's willing to have sex with her without a condon and stay in the relationship, no matter what she says, if she then gets pregnant, he was willing to risk that. So then...he has that choice I just mentioned.

 

I think my viewpoint on this is somewhat biased, as I don't want kids and never have wanted them. And I've seen some pregnant women, and mothers, who are TERRIBLE to their partners, just used them to get pregnant and then left or treated them poorly when they felt they had to stay out of obligation.

[OpenBook]

Like the secrecy of it all? Knowing that this married or attached man was committed to someone else, but still wanted you? Even if it was just sexually? Just wondering. How can I have that turned on-ness but not be an other woman? I don't think I can handle other woman-ness ever again.

 

No, actually the "elsewhere-committed" aspect is what kept me from getting involved with MM#1 for years before I finally took that ill-fated plunge... and what kept me from getting involved with MM#2 at all, even though I fell hard for him... and suffered for it anyway.

 

But there was a connection between my attraction and them being M in both cases. I believe it was a result of their "training" (for lack of a better word) in the M. They were both longtime married and because of that, knew their way around a woman - much more so than a single guy who doesn't have those valuable years of experience. They had the ability to tune into a woman's emotions, needs, etc. They were very good at it.

 

In the years since those experiences I have learned not to expect the same kind of intuitiveness from guys who have never been married vs. guys who have. Now I look more to his character - with kindness at the top of the list and far outweighing everything else. For example, a big indicator is how he treats people "below his status" (again, for lack of a better term) - his employees, the waitstaff in restaurants, children, animals.

 

It also takes me a lot longer to fall in love now. Probably because I've lived long enough to have heard all the bullsh*t already. Haven't heard anything new & fresh in awhile. And not in ANY hurry to fall back into that CRAZY-MAKING state of being called "love."

[stevie_23]

This I get........so very well.

 

I have a theory stevie, I think you have this huge hole inside of you that wants to be filled and you are looking for it in all the wrong places. This man, these other guys you are messing with on the net.

 

To let go of that, means you have to face yourself, and to be quite and deal with just you, it's f'ing hard, when you have a river of pain inside you. You want someone to soothe you, to make you not feel it, you look for someone else to fill the noise in your head, so you don't have to listen to yourself.

 

Am I right?

 

 

 

I'll tell you something else, I've learned the hard way. When you have to spend so much time and effort trying to figure out why someone is doing what they are doing and why they hurt you. You are looking for excuses and rationalizations. Healthy relationships do not require that much thought trying to figure out what is their game, what is their motivation. You are dreading dangerous water, when you excuse what deep inside you know on some level is bs. I will run.......if I feel that I have to make excuses for someone. It's a no go and a clear sign, that I need to back off. It's not good for ME.

 

The noise in my head thing...that really resonates with me. I have been unhappy for quite some time. Possibly for as long as I can recently remember. But definitely for at least the past 6 years or so. I ignored it.

 

When things get worse than the "neutral" unhappy place I'm always in (like when my ex left me or things were hard with him), I can't stand to even have a shower because it's just me...alone with that noise in my head. I need constant distractions. Hole fillers.

 

You're completely right.

 

And I've said to many people before, when counselling them and giving advice, that they will KNOW when a relationship is right for them. It is SO different to the ones that weren't right, or that had become not right. You never have to feel insecure, you never have to chase them, to make excuses or TRY to understand when it doesn't make sense inside your head. You never have to feel angry or hurt or resentful or jealous or possessive or constantly SCARED.

 

So why can't I just be what I tell other people what I know is the truth?

[Lillyfree]

I think it's kind of more about taking responsibility for your own choices. A man who doesn't want kids has to either leave the relationship if the woman really does seriously want, and need, to have kids to be happy, or stay and take responsibility and be there for her. No matter how bad it looks. If he's willing to have sex with her without a condon and stay in the relationship, no matter what she says, if she then gets pregnant, he was willing to risk that. So then...he has that choice I just mentioned.

 

I think my viewpoint on this is somewhat biased, as I don't want kids and never have wanted them. And I've seen some pregnant women, and mothers, who are TERRIBLE to their partners, just used them to get pregnant and then left or treated them poorly when they felt they had to stay out of obligation.

 

but they do have an obligation.

 

regardless of whether he wanted kids or not, regardless of his relationship with his wife, he fathered children.

and i don't buy the 'just used them to get pregnant'. a woman can have a ONS for that.

could it be that in some of those situations the men changed their mind when they realised what parenthood is actually like, and their wives resented them for it?

 

in any case, my opinion on that is - you went there, a kid happened, suck it up.

[stevie_23]

See.........I knew you had it in there. What you just wrote, I'm proud of you. I know you, cause I know myself.

 

You can change this, you really can. I'm a work in progress, you can be too. I'll call you out on your bs. :D

 

I like that you will do that. At first I felt inferior next to you. But...well. No. Now I don't. Thank you.

 

(did you read my post I wrote in response to what you wrote about kids of alcoholics?)

[stevie_23]

in the ow section? yes........that was kind of you and very sweet.

 

Thank you!

 

I'm sorry that child in you hurts too stevie. I really am.

 

Thank you. I think part of it also is as that child, and still now, I also felt the protector of BOTH my mum and dad. I obviously felt protective of my mum because of the things my dad said and how he treated her. But I also felt protective of my dad because my mum, afterwards, would obviously be angry towards him and not show much love. I didn't want him to feel bad. And possibly I was scared that if she didn't act "nicely" towards him, he'd be even worse later when he was drunk again. I also lived in constant fear they'd split up. It all hurt me. All of it.

[stevie_23]

Stevie:

 

More on low self esteem 101:

 

 

You need to believe he loved you because you are in great need of external validation. That he was old, a philanderer, a liar, and likely impotent is a moot point. You yearn to be loved, that trumps everything.

 

This is how I see it:

 

If a GF breaks up with me and I know she does not love me at all I am fine with that. In fact that will speed up my recovery because i know there is zero chance of reconciliation. That is the best case scenario.

 

If GF breaks up with me, but I l know she still loves me my recovery will be pure hell because I will always think that perhaps there is a chance of getting back together. In this instance the grief may last five times longer.

 

But, you cannot do the above. You need that old guy to love you because that is how you survive. You need to be loved to be happy.

 

 

 

No, no, no!!! Whether he loves you or not changes nothing. You are Stevie and you should not put your self worth in the hands of others. Your worth is intrinsic to you. Do you realize how hard is to go through life like this?

 

 

He is a philanderer, a cheater, and a predator. He has no business chasing a women that is younger than his own children.

 

 

 

 

This is the best part of your post. Being able to take these remarks. It tells me your ego is not that fragile and I congratulate you form that.

 

I hear you.

 

I know HIS feelings for me and who HE is as a person do not affect ME or my self worth or worth as a person at all, but...mentally knowing that and emotionally FEELING it? Two different things and they'll take more time to combine I think.

 

Oh, and my ego? Yeah. It is VERY fragile because half the time it's overly inflated due to the external validation I seek (and usually receive). I CAN indeed take criticism and feedback and HELP from people even if it hurts me and goes against what I need (right now) to believe, but I do also wonder if I push down the true effects of hearing these comments because they're too hard. So I push them deep down and they end up messing me up even more.

[stevie_23]

Yes, I know just being me isn't good enough.

 

And yet, another added level of stupidity and crap I exhibit is I also push people away if my sense of entitlement to be good enough being me (if I feel like they don't love me or care or understand enough) is threatened.

[Spark1111]

and I am here for all the mothers in the world.

 

YES! you feel different, Yes, you CAN lose your libido while pregnant with HIS child. yes, you get a free pass because, ready or NOT, you are going to be a mother.

 

And if you cannot get your fellow women on board with supporting that, over some jack hole who needs to get his rocks off no matter what, you do NOT deserve being a member of Womankind.

 

procreating life trumps all, IMHO. if you do not get this and support this, I pity you. If HE doesn't get this, than he deserves a special place in hell if he seeks an OW because he is in a sexual drought while she is growing and bearing HIS child.

 

JERK!

 

So WHY are you with him? Just examine that, please.

[stevie_23]

Well, I personally am not with any man right now, but that's beside the point.

 

I just don't get the whole attitude about having kids being THE thing to do. This amazing, holier than thou thing that everyone HAS to respect. If there's a mother pushing a baby in a stroller thingo down the street, if you don't get out of the way, YOU are a bad person even if she's taking up the whole street and makes no effort to move to the side, even if she feels 100% entitled to do whatever the hell she likes because SHE is the wondrous and amazing "mother", and thus above everyone else who is NOT a mother.

 

MY mother is amazing and wonderful, the best mother anyone could ever hope to have. The fact I don't want kids isn't anything to do with her skills as my mother. The fact I'm messed up isn't her fault either.

 

And I would hope everyone would respect and take care of her when she was pregnant (and always, not just when pregnant), BUT...at the same time...anyone who chooses to get pregnant and have children, that is THEIR choice. It's not EVERYONE'S choice. If they wish to have extra needs then that's their choice too. It's their choice to bring up a child in whatever way they like and can manage. It's their choice to do all of that, and of course it's incredibly difficult. It's the most difficult job EVER, but it's nothing to do with anyone else, it benefits no one else, so...

[Mme. Chaucer]

but I think it's just super harsh the wish hell on us over something we did at like 18-19... People change

 

What about the people who get pregnant at 18? Can they change too?

[stevie_23]

No no. I'm sorry. No resentment towards my mother at all.

 

I have just encountered SO many mothers and expectant mothers who just abused the fact they were pregnant and took advantage of people's sense of obligation and general kindness. They expect YOU to do everything, YOU to give them what they now need because THEY are pregnant. As if it's everyone's responsibility to help them.

 

Obviously these people are a minority and I mean, if I'm on a train and a pregnant woman gets on I'll get up and offer her my seat. I smoke, and when I walk down the street with a cigarette, if I see a pregnant woman or a mother with a small child walking along towards me, I'll move as far over as I can and hold the cigarette as far away as possible so it doesn't blow smoke near them. I AM considerate because I DO respect them.

 

But what I don't do is accept that they deserve everyone to automatically respect or agree with their decision to have kids. Their kids are their everything, which is as it should be, but not everyone should be expected to care.