How much of your MM’s real life did he share with you?

[ComingInHot]

Got It;

 

Thanks for your answer*

[MissBee]

oopsie. guess i should have clarified....I shared everything with him about ME and MY everyday life and family blah blah blah but i never told him about my life with my H and child. i wanted to keep that private i guess. or i just wasn't ready. HE on the other hand was all too eager to share every last detail about his W and child. (i know i know)...

Our A was very short-lived. I assume I would have grown more comfortable with time. But his constant wife-bashing wasn't my style. I have a wonderful H, so it wouldn't have been fair for me to portray this awful situation I was in, when I wasn't.

 

I understand that.

 

My exAP's stance was that he wasn't going to share details of his relationship, just as he wouldn't share details of our relationship with another. As messed up as the situation was...I understood that and found it respectful. Had he been blabbing about their sex life, complaining or telling me things about her that she had told him in confidence I'd have found it very disgusting.

 

I think many people do compartmentalize in that way and it's sensible....hence I don't think it's strange that an AP may not be privy to every single thing. Unfortunately, in a triangulated scenario, there is another person with life/experiences/secrets/ongoing interaction and intimacies with your SO and like many OW feel their R with the MM is none of the BS's business, the same goes for the MM's relationship with his W.

 

Yea I couldn't stomach any form of bashing and people who tend to over-share or try to bond by blabbing about others...I tend to say far. This goes for platonic relationships as well. I've met women who upon just meeting me in a group setting try to bond by telling me all about some other woman we just saw and I am polite but think oh please...you JUST met me and are already dishing all about some person you knew way before, then smiling in their face...and I should trust you? It's kind of like that in an A for me. Trying to bond with me by dissing your SO whom for all intents and purposes you're still actively in a relationship with, who has your child, whom you've known longer is not cute and doesn't prove how special I am but ow disloyal and just plain nasty you are.

[loredo21]

He gave you mindless details and put his wife down. But, in the end the whole thing was a BIG LIE.

 

This is what MOM said after d-day (your own words):

 

Then his wife found out. She called me on his phone. My whole world was over. I had to tell my husband which is the hardest thing i have ever had to do in my life. MM totally coward out. He told me that I meant nothing to him and that he loved his wife and to leave him alone. It didn't make any sense. I had heard nothing but horrible things about their life together. (from him and others)...I was duped. totally and completely played.

 

Your point? that was my first post here Pierre. Thoughts and opinions change. Especially after being here and reading others posts. I was completely played in the end. But I don't believe the things he told me in daily banter were lies. Yes he did wife bash. no it wasn't attractive. was all of that true of her? maybe not. But I think he honestly shared his thoughts, hopes, and dreams with me.

[loredo21]

Sorry, I thought you were still glorifying this guy. These men are cleaver and say things to get you on the hook. In turn they receive admiration and attention. Which is what the OW wants as well. It becomes a secret club of two people that give each other total and complete admiration.

 

But, I now see you have a very clear mind.

 

God Bless

 

I don't have a clear mind. I was part of an A. My mind is a damn hot mess.

[LadyRecovery]

Stevie & all;

I have a question...

 

When something is "omitted" whether an obvious re-directing of the conversation or a subtle move away from the question/discussion topic etc... do you feel that is a form of dishonesty?

 

We have all done (I think) at least I have when I don't wish to give certain "specifics" about something. It doesn't really sit right when I do this but I think I tell myself it is something that if they knew it might hurt them and our relationship.

 

For me, I really try these days not to "omit" things BUT I say outright that I am deciding Not to tell for reason/s a., b., & c. At least this way I don't think I am lying and Most times by stating the above the other party/ies accept that and don't "push".

 

If they are pushing then it may be whatever I don't wish to talk about does in fact need to be talked about...

 

So, is it a form of dishonesty to maintain what maybe couldn't be maintained if shared? Or something else? I would like to have your take on this sincerely*

 

I assume you knew my answer would be yes. It is dishonest, at least in my former situation. EX: xmm omitted to tell me he was married. xmm didn't tell me the whole truth about the state of his M. At least not at first. Personally, if I ask for specifics, I want the truth. It only hurts if I allow it to hurt.

 

Back to my former views now, and I always believe telling the truth is right. If I engage in a behavior and feel I should omit certain facts, then I shouldn't be doing it.

 

If my saying something to someone that would hurt our relationship, I have to take a look at that and see why.

 

Anyway, my $.02

[stevie_23]

Stevie, you sound like a very smart woman, but at the same time you are naive. All the MM told you was BS to keep you on the hook. And you bought all of it. I am a guy, I know how the system works.

 

This man was long distance and very old, probably too old to have an effective erection. And you buy his stories about how he wants to be more kinky? He was simply looking for your attention, validation, and admiration. In many ways the two of you were working for the same goal and mirrored each other.

 

Why are so many women so innocent?????:eek:

 

Well, I can see where you’re coming from. But uh…no, he was not too old to have an erection actually. Lol. I’ve mentioned before that we did many videos for each other. We did videos while we were chatting, we did videos while the other was sleeping (14-15 hour time difference), showing what we’d do throughout the day. Some of those videos were “adult” ones. Very intimate. I saw everything, many, many times. And he had NO problems in that area whatsoever.

 

I WILL however agree with you that we did indeed mirror each other in terms of our goals. In some of these videos we did, we were SO exposed to each other. We showed each other things we have never shown anyone else. We are both fairly closed off and shy people and so to be so open with each other was a BIG DEAL for both of us. We were each other's outlet, etc. As well as many other things.

 

There are certain things I KNOW. And many things I don’t but assumed he was telling the truth, and I think he was in the ways that mattered anyway.

 

To the question asked earlier about whether changing the subject or omitting details is dishonesty…I don’t think it is actual dishonesty…I mean, are people only honest if they tell EVERY SINGLE LITTLE thing about a situation they’re discussing? No. My ex-MM didn’t change the subject or skirt around things ever. If we got on a subject that we both talked about, it would end of its own accord, not prematurely.

 

If anything, I would be the one to kind of “vague-up” details. He never asked if I said “I love you” to my partner, and I was glad he didn’t because I would’ve been honest but I would have down played it too. He never asked if we were “intimate” but I’d already told him we never did that anymore and hadn’t for years so he didn’t have to ask. I never asked him about his sex life with his wife, he volunteered the information he did.

 

Like many others who’ve responded to this thread, you seemed to have pretty much constant contact throughout your days with your MM. Obviously there’s still room for lies or whatever, but I do think overall, they’re fairly honest. Especially the long term ones. Why bother otherwise? Just for sex? Nah. The hard thing is their love for their wives. Obviously if they’re married, they must have SOME feelings. I think this is what they omit or play down the most, but not out of malicious reasons. They love us, but they also love their wives. My ex-MM cares for his wife and loves her to an extent, though I believe he’s still with her because of practical considerations, not love. I know he loved me more than her, but within our “bubble” and it also wasn’t enough.

[awkward]

A question for those of you who had constant contact throughout the day.

 

1) Why?

2) Is this a phenomenon related to affair relationships?

 

I cannot fathom speaking with my husband all day long, especially while he is working. What do/did you talk about?

[Lillyfree]

not sure whether it's an A thing.

 

i certainly don't speak to my husband constantly throughout the day - we'll send a few emails but that's it. maybe text/call if something needs organising or things come up.

 

with OM, he was the one initiating contact all the time. having the IM on the phones meant he'd see when i was up and message me with 'good morning'.... then wait for me to get to work, we'd talk during worktime...

and we talked... well, about everything. work, what was happening at that moment, what we're going to do tonight/on the weekend...

 

then in the evening we had a time when we'd talk before we went to bed.

 

it could be related to addiction. needing to be in constant contact.

 

one day i was getting some tests done due to a fairly serious health scare (he didn't know about it). so i switched my phone off as i didn't want to speak to anyone.

he went into a panic, when i switched my phone back on i got all these frantic messages :/

and had to explain why i wasn't around...

[Decorative]

A question for those of you who had constant contact throughout the day.

 

1) Why?

2) Is this a phenomenon related to affair relationships?

 

I cannot fathom speaking with my husband all day long, especially while he is working. What do/did you talk about?

 

My spouse was talking on the phone for six hours a day at one point, and sending hundreds of text messages.

 

That doesn't sound like fun to me. That sounds like torture. I'd confess to just about any crime the police asked me to if they were making me do that. LOL

[stevie_23]

A question for those of you who had constant contact throughout the day.

 

1) Why?

2) Is this a phenomenon related to affair relationships?

 

I cannot fathom speaking with my husband all day long, especially while he is working. What do/did you talk about?

 

We had constant contact because

 

(1) We were 14-15 hours apart in terms of our time difference. When both of us were awake, we were in constant contact. Because we had such long gaps when ONE of us was awake, and we missed each other during those long hours. That's why we'd still try to "be" together then too, doing videos, writing emails, keeping the other close, so to speak.

 

(2) We were both aware we couldn't be a "normal" couple because we weren't together in person. So we over-compensated for that by spending all our time together in the only ways we could (online chats, emails, videos, texting, phone calls, etc). We knew if we were together in person in a normal relationship, it'd balance out and we'd have space away from each other and want and need that.

 

And yes, addiction. VERY much an addiction. You can't get enough of each other even when you know it's not healthy and detrimental to other areas of your life. There is no healthy balance.

[egalew]

exMM and I spoke, texted, e-mail all day. In retrospect, what's true and what's not is hard to say.

 

The thing I did find odd at the time, and even now, is that he was able to do this when he was married, which led me to believe he was downstairs and she up or vice versa.

 

Given his intense involvement with me and other things he said, I thought the marriage was very mechanical, lacking passion, more brother / sister than anything. He also reinforced this by saying it had been years since they had even kissed, much less had sex. However, at the very end I saw these pictures of them together, and it was such a disconnect for me.

 

In retrospect, I will never know what what fact and what hwas his b.s.

[MissBee]

not sure whether it's an A thing.

 

i certainly don't speak to my husband constantly throughout the day - we'll send a few emails but that's it. maybe text/call if something needs organising or things come up.

 

with OM, he was the one initiating contact all the time. having the IM on the phones meant he'd see when i was up and message me with 'good morning'.... then wait for me to get to work, we'd talk during worktime...

and we talked... well, about everything. work, what was happening at that moment, what we're going to do tonight/on the weekend...

 

then in the evening we had a time when we'd talk before we went to bed.

it could be related to addiction. needing to be in constant contact.

 

one day i was getting some tests done due to a fairly serious health scare (he didn't know about it). so i switched my phone off as i didn't want to speak to anyone.

he went into a panic, when i switched my phone back on i got all these frantic messages :/

and had to explain why i wasn't around...

 

This is an interesting observation.

 

I think some of it may also be related to how much time APs have to spend together. Lots of APs don't get to see each other at will at any time of night or day so usually the constant virtual/electronic communication substitutes for that I find...it's kind of like in LDRs.

 

In my own experience, my A was a double whammy, both LDR and an A. I spent A LOT of time constantly on the phone, emailing, texting, IMing etc. and shared every minute detail. It felt comforting and made us feel included in each other's lives, although not physically around. I think lots of APs do this. I then compare it to another relationship I had,a single one, with a boyfriend that lived only 20 minutes away, we did not text/email/phone nearly as much. I think part was that I knew I could see him when I wanted and it wasn't a feeling of shortness of time or needing to tell him everything so he could feel closer to me because he lived elsewhere.

 

I had never thought about it before until I read your post. But I find it to resonate with my experience. With my single boyfriend we texted and called each day but not to that degree...it wasn't constant. With my AP my phone was attached to me. With my single boyfriend generally a good morning text, couple others throughout the day, a couple calls and usually it was to coordinate seeing him later. Generally we spent more face time so didn't need to electronically communicate as much. So I imagine with a husband/SO who lives at your house, you get to see them in the morning before you leave for the day and when you get home and all weekend, so there is that comfort there, so the constant texting/calling would be overkill while in LDRs and As that comfort is not always present and so all that electronic contact compensates.

[stevie_23]

Just because you see pictures doesn't mean he felt there was much warmth or love there. But conversely, just because he told you that, doesn't mean it was true. You will never know, and hopefully that won't matter much anymore eventually.

 

My ex-MM's wife's Facebook page has the picture as him and her on their civil ceremony wedding day. She looks blissfully happy. He looks...strained. They had a proper church wedding at her church a month later but she's not put any of those pictures as her main profile picture, even 6 months later. She has other pictures of them together, family stuff with her kids. He's always sort of in the background or to the side, distanced.

 

My ex-MM's Facebook page has a picture of just him with his guitars. His other pictures are a few landscape shots from their honeymoon, but no family shots or couple shots.

[stevie_23]

This is an interesting observation.

 

I think some of it may also be related to how much time APs have to spend together. Lots of APs don't get to see each other at will at any time of night or day so usually the constant virtual/electronic communication substitutes for that I find...it's kind of like in LDRs.

 

In my own experience, my A was a double whammy, both LDR and an A. I spent A LOT of time constantly on the phone, emailing, texting, IMing etc. and shared every minute detail. It felt comforting and made us feel included in each other's lives, although not physically around. I think lots of APs do this. I then compare it to another relationship I had,a single one, with a boyfriend that lived only 20 minutes away, we did not text/email/phone nearly as much. I think part was that I knew I could see him when I wanted and it wasn't a feeling of shortness of time or needing to tell him everything so he could feel closer to me because he lived elsewhere.

 

I had never thought about it before until I read your post. But I find it to resonate with my experience. With my single boyfriend we texted and called each day but not to that degree...it wasn't constant. With my AP my phone was attached to me. With my single boyfriend generally a good morning text, couple others throughout the day, a couple calls and usually it was to coordinate seeing him later. Generally we spent more face time so didn't need to electronically communicate as much. So I imagine with a husband/SO who lives at your house, you get to see them in the morning before you leave for the day and when you get home and all weekend, so there is that comfort there, so the constant texting/calling would be overkill while in LDRs and As that comfort is not always present and so all that electronic contact compensates.

 

Yes, it's also the comfort factor. One or both of you are in existing relationships and you may feel extra lonely in that relationship when you're not in contact with your MM. You feel relieved, happy and "right" when you're together.

[Lillyfree]

They had a proper church wedding at her church a month later

 

stevie... this jumped out at me.

 

you said before that he was only marrying her for the health insurance.

why didn't he leave it at civil ceremony?

 

i know it's hard to pull everything apart and see things for what they really are.

 

you said that you didn't believe he lied to you.

i don't think his relationship was as bad as he told you...

[MissBee]

Yes, it's also the comfort factor. One or both of you are in existing relationships and you may feel extra lonely in that relationship when you're not in contact with your MM. You feel relieved, happy and "right" when you're together.

 

I also found a crazy form of dependency existing with that "comfort factor" that didn't exist in my regular Rs.

 

With my regular Rs...it's like I knew my boyfriend was "mine", I was his only relationship and so that peace of mind made it so that I didn't need to constantly be in touch. Of course esp initially we were super in love and always wanted to be around each other...but it became less intense and I could carry on my life and know he was there and I could see him later on or this weekend we would go away etc.'Occasionally, depending on what was happening in our lives and with our schedules, I would reaaaalllly miss him and want to be all over him and then usually it would go back to that sense of happiness and comfort knowing he was there and we were a couple.

 

With my AP it was more like if we weren't talking I felt almost panicked or just a terrible sense of missing him and as you said, once I got a call or text, I was "relieved" again. This happened in my LDR too. I do think a lot of those feelings are tied to a level of insecurity present in relationships where access is limited or constrained. It's like anything scarce...when things are scarce the more people want it and/or when they get it they act like it's a drink of water in a barren land LOL! But if it's freely available, you tend to be less antsy and anxious about it.

[stevie_23]

stevie... this jumped out at me.

 

you said before that he was only marrying her for the health insurance.

why didn't he leave it at civil ceremony?

 

i know it's hard to pull everything apart and see things for what they really are.

 

you said that you didn't believe he lied to you.

i don't think his relationship was as bad as he told you...

 

I see your point. He didn't want any wedding. I believe that to be true. They did the civil ceremony quickly. Less than a week after he got out of the hospital.

 

She is quite religious and spends a lot of time on the church committee doing social events and such. Goes to church every Sunday (he never goes with her). She NEEDED a proper church wedding with friends and family. She has always wanted to be married because of the social standing and all that. She felt weird living with someone for 3-4 years and not being married. He didn't want that proper wedding. He's not religious, he had his sister and her husband at the wedding as his guests, no one else. It was all for her. But he did it because he does care for her, and it was the right thing to do.

[stevie_23]

I also found a crazy form of dependency existing with that "comfort factor" that didn't exist in my regular Rs.

 

With my regular Rs...it's like I knew my boyfriend was "mine", I was his only relationship and so that peace of mind made it so that I didn't need to constantly be in touch. Of course esp initially we were super in love and always wanted to be around each other...but it became less intense and I could carry on my life and know he was there and I could see him later on or this weekend we would go away etc.'Occasionally, depending on what was happening in our lives and with our schedules, I would reaaaalllly miss him and want to be all over him and then usually it would go back to that sense of happiness and comfort knowing he was there and we were a couple.

 

With my AP it was more like if we weren't talking I felt almost panicked or just a terrible sense of missing him and as you said, once I got a call or text, I was "relieved" again. This happened in my LDR too. I do think a lot of those feelings are tied to a level of insecurity present in relationships where access is limited or constrained. It's like anything scarce...when things are scarce the more people want it and/or when they get it they act like it's a drink of water in a barren land LOL! But if it's freely available, you tend to be less antsy and anxious about it.

 

God yes. It was always an emotional roller coaster of missing, tension, worry without them, and then relief and ecstacy when back in contact again.

[stevie_23]

Also, Lillyfree, he never really said his relationship with her was BAD. He just said he cared for her but wasn't in love with her and didn't want to be with her anymore. He HATED living in what he felt was a "dormitory" with her 3 kids in their early 20s. He would've been happier if it was just him and her, I know that. He told me that.

 

He never criticised her. He would say they never discussed "deeper" things, and he needs that to feel happy and satisfied in terms of the intimate, mental and emotional level of a relationship. They never saw each other much, which he was fine with. She'd sometimes come into his music studio and stay there for a few hours, talking about her work problems and such, and he'd listen. He was patient and understanding. He never came out to talk to HER in whatever room of the house she was in. It was always her coming in to find HIM. He was always in his studio.

 

At meal times, he'd make the dinner every night and clean up, but eating the meal? Always in his studio alone, even if his wife was home. Her and the kids would eat together, or just the kids if she was working, and he'd be in the other room with the door shut. Didn't matter if I was around or not.

 

So...he felt very isolated and unhappy, but it wasn't because of HER. It was the situation.

[Lillyfree]

Also, Lillyfree, he never really said his relationship with her was BAD. He just said he cared for her but wasn't in love with her and didn't want to be with her anymore. He HATED living in what he felt was a "dormitory" with her 3 kids in their early 20s. He would've been happier if it was just him and her, I know that. He told me that.

 

He never criticised her. He would say they never discussed "deeper" things, and he needs that to feel happy and satisfied in terms of the intimate, mental and emotional level of a relationship. They never saw each other much, which he was fine with. She'd sometimes come into his music studio and stay there for a few hours, talking about her work problems and such, and he'd listen. He was patient and understanding. He never came out to talk to HER in whatever room of the house she was in. It was always her coming in to find HIM. He was always in his studio.

 

At meal times, he'd make the dinner every night and clean up, but eating the meal? Always in his studio alone, even if his wife was home. Her and the kids would eat together, or just the kids if she was working, and he'd be in the other room with the door shut. Didn't matter if I was around or not.

 

So...he felt very isolated and unhappy, but it wasn't because of HER. It was the situation.

 

 

it seems like he was causing a lot of the situation. he was isolating himself...

 

i really feel sorry that you're hurting so much.

there is a lot of justification you put forward for him and his actions....

stevie, try to think of it this way:

you seem like an intelligent, eloquent, compassionate person. if that's your pic in your avatar, you're also very attractive

 

do you really think that if you met him IRL you would even give him a second glance? and if you did, how long do you think it would last?

 

would you respect a man who treats a woman as a meal ticket?

[stevie_23]

I've thought about this too.

 

If I met him in real life in person, you're right - I wouldn't look twice. But if I saw my real life partner in person, I also wouldn't look twice. However, their personalities are what I love. And I love them physically too. In terms of my ex-MM's appearance, he's good for 61. He doesn't look his age. I've seen the videos, etc. In different lights, positions, etc. I've seen it all. Knowing him and what I know and love (yes, STILL love), I would still be with him in real life.

 

And yeah, he does isolate himself. Of course. I've told him this before. He would complain about how uncomfortable he was, how he wanted to leave. For a while I'd be understanding and supportive, cause I obviously wanted him to leave too so we could be more free to be together. But he had no money, no stable job at that point...he was trying to move towards it, and didn't WANT to be part of that family unit his wife so desperately wanted. Family is everything to her. He has no interest.

 

Even now, when I would go and see if he'd posted on the songwriting forum he goes on...we're no longer together, he has no "reason" to be isolated in the studio by himself for hours, avoiding everyone else because he's with me instead. And he still goes online for all those hours. He's still isolated, except now he's alone without me as well. Meh. His choice.

 

He isn't going to ever be happy living in that house. Once all the kids move out eventually, and it's just him and his wife, things will improve if he sticks it out for that long. If WE were still together, this would be very bad because she'd have no distractions and all her attention would be on him which would get in the way of us. But as we're NOT together, once the kids leave, his situation will improve. He will have his house back again. Maybe even get closer with his wife too.

[stevie_23]

it would you respect a man who treats a woman as a meal ticket?

 

Hmm. This is a bit of a slightly complex thing. Technically, for a long time he didn't leave because he couldn't afford to.

 

She works long hours and has recently finally gotten a pay rise she'd been promised for over a year.

 

He used to work hard but his work was unstable and unreliable. Labourer, landscape work, etc. He used to have his own successful business but gave that up to save her family company that was going under when they met and got together years back. He gave up that good income for her (HIS choice of course).

 

When he had no stable income, he still brought money in by selling old construction equipment. He made about $80,000 from that. It all was spent within 3 months because of the 3 kids...car insurance, health insurance for all of them, food for them. He is very low maintenance in terms of his financial needs. He doesn't buy anything. All he wants is his pizza and beer on a Friday night. But family life is expensive.

 

Now he's got a good stable job that pays well, so...yeah. She's not really a meal ticket as such...but I see your point.

[stevie_23]

Hmm. Yes. I do feel bad for her, and always have. I felt I was in the "privileged" position to be in his "sunlight", so to speak. But I always thought, even way back, that I'd HATE to be on the other side (where I am now.) Yep.

 

He is good to her. He doesn't spend time with her but...yeah. He is isolated, but they've talked about this a few times over the years. She wants him to WANT to be part of the family but he's said he just doesn't want to and he won't change who he is now, at his age.

 

She chooses to stay with someone who can never make her happy because they want different things. She chooses to stay with someone she has caught cheating with 4 separate times over almost 2 years (out of the 3.5 year relationship they've had).

[stevie_23]

Come on stevie.....you have no idea if any of that is true.

 

For your own good, I wish you had a way of finding out the truth. I bet there is very little real in what he told you.

 

Something else lady.........he read you like a book, he knew he could sucker you.

 

Nah, certain things I know are true because I saw them with my own eyes in videos he did, in letters emailed to him from external sources, from phone calls he took while filming videos for me (where I could hear the other person through the phone).

 

I never questioned this stuff. I saw it. I never asked about it, wasn't THAT interested. But I saw it cause it was part of his days he shared with me.

[stevie_23]

I'm curious to find out what all of you think I was actually LIKE in this affair.

 

Do you think I was this "perfect" little naive OW who never got angry, never got upset, never expressed anything negative to him because I felt I had to be perfect for him and NOT like his wife? Who needs two wives if you can have a mistress, that kind of thing?