Author MrMcBobski Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Why does everything I say have to be me trying to convince you about something. This is a FORUM, a place for discussion. Someone posted a viewpoint, so i thought i would share an alternative view that they may not have considered. Im not suggesting my view is any more valid than theirs. Thats for them to decide. I do find it strange when people are so closed minded that they wont even entertain the possibility that there is an alternative viewpoint to anything. As i have said elsewhere in this thread... there is always more than one answer to anything. Believing otherwise is just bigotry. Personally I will always consider the alternatives before making a decision (hence this thread). Link to post Share on other sites
Author MrMcBobski Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Ultimately, u need to ask ursel: does she really love you? Or are you the 'good' guy, the best choice for her? It is a fair point. I do, however, believe that she does love me. And i dont mean in a "she says 'i love you' all the time" kind of way. I mean deep down. Aside from this particular incident, her overall character, and her actions before, and since, tell me that she truely feels that way. I dont think that anyone would discuss some of the things we have discussed over the last month if they were just stringing the other person along as a "place holder" for something better. Link to post Share on other sites
loversquarrel Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Why does everything I say have to be me trying to convince you about something. This is a FORUM, a place for discussion. Someone posted a viewpoint, so i thought i would share an alternative view that they may not have considered. Im not suggesting my view is any more valid than theirs. Thats for them to decide. I do find it strange when people are so closed minded that they wont even entertain the possibility that there is an alternative viewpoint to anything. As i have said elsewhere in this thread... there is always more than one answer to anything. Believing otherwise is just bigotry. Personally I will always consider the alternatives before making a decision (hence this thread). Trying to work on things after infidelity is still a continuation of a damaged relationship. It is much more difficult to rebuild than to start fresh with someone new. One also has to fight the negative feelings broken trust brings, whereas when a relationship is new the trust is built with none of those obstacles. Many of us here on this thread are posting from experience, not just the experience of "dumping them", but also from the experience of having worked the "alternatives". The majority of us have found out the hard way that it doesn't work. We are having a discussion, it just happens to be curt at times. Link to post Share on other sites
Zetarry Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It is a fair point. I do, however, believe that she does love me. And i dont mean in a "she says 'i love you' all the time" kind of way. I mean deep down. Aside from this particular incident, her overall character, and her actions before, and since, tell me that she truely feels that way. I dont think that anyone would discuss some of the things we have discussed over the last month if they were just stringing the other person along as a "place holder" for something better. In that case, if you are positive she truly loves you and would never stray again, you need to focus on your future. Will you hold resentment towards what she did and bring it up anytime you fight or are you strong enough to forgive and forget? My boyfriend always told me: I forgave everything after i found out, but I will never forget! This is something you will both live with for the rest of your lives. If you can leave it all behind without a grudge then I wish you luck in your future and hope it all works out ok. Link to post Share on other sites
NervisPervis Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 and she swears that the story she has told me is as close to the truth as she can remember... I JUST typed this in another thread to a guy who said his cheating GF "doesn't remember": That's liar speak for "I'm lying right now". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NervisPervis Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 And why are you still arguing with these people? You have your opinion, they have theirs. Move on everybody. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AlexDP Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 So going by what everyone is saying here. Every account of infidelity is 100% deliberate. The cheater sought their partner out with that exact goal in mind from the outset. There was NEVER any confusion. There were NEVER any mitigating circumstances. I think you really need some sex ed, mate. You seem to think sex "just happens". Well, it doesn't. She wanted to have sex with another man. Yes, it was deliberate. Yes, she sought out an affair partner. If your girlfriend has psychological issues that make her sleep with people, that would be yet another reason for you to dump her, because they won't be resolved that fast. But you're scared. I get that. You think you can't do better. I know that fear. Don't rationalize it. Say it like it is. You're scared. That's okay. But don't BS people. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) So going by what everyone is saying here. Every account of infidelity is 100% deliberate. The cheater sought their partner out with that exact goal in mind from the outset. There was NEVER any confusion. There were NEVER any mitigating circumstances. 0% of cheaters have psychological issues that mean they end up in situations they cant deal with. When caught 100% of cheaters lie 100% of the time. 100% of cheaters alter or trickle any truth they do reveal to try to make things seem better than it really was. 100% of cheaters re-offend. The only remorseful cheater is one who confesses the second it happens. There is NEVER any chance of reconciliation. You can think what you want - but I know that when men "buy things" for women - the women know they need to reciprocate somehow. Some women who do that are referred to as "whoring themselves out!" She KNEW when he took her "shopping" he'd want something in return. And don't tell me she's THAT stupid to not know it. She knows! She just wants you to believe otherwise. She's ruined your trust over attention and gifts. And she must have paid him back somehow... Why settle for her being available to be bribed? She's bartered her body... How do you value that? Her moral compass is broken - what is she actively doing to change the core being of her broken self? On a side note - lots of talk means nothing until a person completely changes all of their behaviors. Edited February 8, 2013 by 2sunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author MrMcBobski Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 You can think what you want - but I know that when men "buy things" for women - the women know they need to reciprocate somehow. I could buy *YOU* some sexy clothes. It doesnt mean its an appropriate gift, or that you will respond in kind. She KNEW when he took her "shopping" he'd want something in return. I know im picking at small points, but everyone seems to be under the impression that they regularly went on huge shopping trips with him buying her gifts left right and center. He bought her a total of 3 things over the 5 years. (that she told me about obviously...) None of which were bought in here presence, they were gifts bought and delivered to her. And all three things were trivial items, nothing of massive financial or emotional significance. And don't tell me she's THAT stupid to not know it. She knew it. She just didnt know what to do about it. She has said that nothing physical has happened since the last time 5 years ago. He has indicated he would like to, but she hasnt let him take it further. She's ruined your trust over attention and gifts. And she must have paid him back somehow... Again the gifts were trivial and secondary to anything else that happened. Her moral compass is broken I dont disagree there. what is she actively doing to change the core being of her broken self? On a side note - lots of talk means nothing until a person completely changes all of their behaviors. We are still talking about what she can and NEEDS to do to rectify this. If thats even possible. As I said. I am not prepared to just give up on this relationship without a fight. (not in the literal sense) So I am willing to at least look at all the options, and see if there is a way to make it work. There might not be, that will be a sad day, and i fully appreciate that is a significant probability, but we arent there yet. Link to post Share on other sites
nofool4u Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Oy vey. Look, do what you want. Good luck, believe it or not, we are in your corner. But its obvious you don't want to hear it from people that have been there. So all anyone can say at this point is you have to do what you want and quit asking questions if you don't want the answer. You are going to have to learn the hard way. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 SHE should be looking for ways to fix what's broken about her! And minor gifts vs major gifts = COMPLETELY BESIDE THE PRINCIPLE OF THE MATTER! What? You think that buying her a house is worse than him buying her a token gift? It's not! Stop protecting her! Her behavior is gross! At gifts accepted by another man besides YOU is completely INAPPROPRIATE! Whether they had sex or not lately is besides the point too! She was communicating with him enough that he FELT CLOSE TO HER - SO MUCH SO THAT HE WENT OUT AND PURCHASED THINGS FOR HER (intent to be close to her). And now SHE'S not in counseling? She's not necessarily taking the lead to REPAIR the damage SHE CAUSED? You have your head up her a$$ so far you can't think right. Link to post Share on other sites
AbeNormal Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) In response to 2sunny: I could buy *YOU* some sexy clothes. It doesnt mean its an appropriate gift, or that you will respond in kind. Perhaps you've missed something important here. You could buy them, but 2sunny would not (as an honorable woman) accept them. If you had them sent to her, she would return them or discard them. Understand? Edit: I'm not trying to be hard on you here - it's your situation and not mine. And I know that it is a difficult one. But when you talk about "being analytical" and all that, I can't help but think you might be engaging in the defense mechanism known as "intellectualization". http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/15-common-defense-mechanisms/all/1/ Maybe you have a diamond in the rough in your hands - rather than a common stone - but you really do need to drop the defensive stance so you can get in clear touch with your emotions/thoughts and figure out how to proceed. Best of luck. Edited February 9, 2013 by AbeNormal 2 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) In response to 2sunny: Perhaps you've missed something important here. You could buy them, but 2sunny would not (as an honorable woman) accept them. If you had them sent to her, she would return them or discard them. Understand? Edit: I'm not trying to be hard on you here - it's your situation and not mine. And I know it is a difficult one. But when you talk about "being analytical" and all that, I can't help but think you might be engaging in the defense mechanism known as "intellectualization". 15 Common Defense Mechanisms | Psych Central Maybe you have a diamond in the rough in your hands - rather than a common stone - but you really do need to drop the defensive stance so you can get in clear touch with your emotions/thoughts and figure out how to proceed. Best of luck. I hope I am the first to tell you that for having an AB/NORMAL BRAIN that is one very smart statement: "Perhaps you've missed something important here. You could buy them, but 2sunny would not (as an honorable woman) accept them. If you had them sent to her, she would return them or discard them." (blame young frankenstein) Edited February 9, 2013 by road Link to post Share on other sites
Author MrMcBobski Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 when you talk about "being analytical" and all that, I can't help but think you might be engaging in the defense mechanism known as "intellectualization". It is, of course, more than possible thats the case, however, I tend to deal with *EVERYTHING* in this way, not just painful / stressful situations. So its not abnormal for me to do things this way. Thanks for the link though, that is quite useful. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 MrMcBobskiI could buy *YOU* some sexy clothes. It doesnt mean its an appropriate gift, or that you will respond in kind. No - you may not - because as a healthy woman with a solid boundary I would never allow you to think this is acceptable to me. See, that's what YOUR GF needs to work on - and YOU can't DO that FOR HER. Yet, she isn't yet DOING the work on HERSELF to find out what a solid, healthy boundary looks like. She likes the attention - even if it causes YOU pain. See how that's not loving behavior? I know im picking at small points, but everyone seems to be under the impression that they regularly went on huge shopping trips with him buying her gifts left right and center. That's not my impression - so quit making assumptions. Even ONE gift makes her look inappropriate - and she knows it - or she wouldn't have lied about it - covered it up. Yet now YOU are the one minimizing it all. That says a LOT about how you view yourself. You need to work on that. Are you out buying random gifts for women? If you were - I'd bet there's SOME meaning attached to those gifts...hmmm. He bought her a total of 3 things over the 5 years. (that she told me about obviously...) None of which were bought in here presence, they were gifts bought and delivered to her. And all three things were trivial items, nothing of massive financial or emotional significance. Yet SHE kept those gifts. And she lied and covered up. THAT is part of the problem. She needs his attention so much that she's willing to sell her moral compass to get gifts...maybe even pay back with sex. All at expense of hurting YOUR feelings and not caring at the time how much it may hurt you. She knew it. She just didnt know what to do about it. She has said that nothing physical has happened since the last time 5 years ago. He has indicated he would like to, but she hasnt let him take it further. Nothing you can say will justify her bad behavior. You continuing to make excuses for her makes me worried about you not expecting DECENCY within YOUR relationship! She lies! She covers up! She seeks out OTHER men's attention! She gives sex when you don't know it! Why are YOU making that ok? It's NOT OK! Act like its not ok! You seem like you're willing to reward her bad behavior! That just sucks!!! It even sucks reading it! Again the gifts were trivial and secondary to anything else that ... Minimize it all you want - it still would NEVER make it right. ANY gift to a taken woman is terribly INAPPROPRIATE - and since SHE didn't state that to him right up front - she's got BIG, BIG issues to work on! We are still talking about what she can and NEEDS to do to rectify this. If thats even possible. Stop talking. Action needs to be taken! Ad if SHE'S not taking ALL the steps to DO the action necessary - she shouldn't be given another thought! She trampy - yet you don't expect HER to change. Talk is cheap - you already know she lies! She should stop talking and start DOING! As I said. I am not prepared to just give up on this relationship without a fight. (not in the literal sense) So I am willing to at least look at all the options, and see if there is a way to make it work. There might not be, that will be a sad day, and i fully appreciate that is a significant probability, but we arent there yet. There's a way it will work - you swallow all of your boundaries - and integrity - and self respect - all for her to continue to mislead and lie to you. Then you call THAT love...? Hardly! She knows EXACTLY what she's doing. You are being very short sighted. Does she pay for ALL her own expenses in life - or do you pay for any of them? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AbeNormal Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) It is, of course, more than possible thats the case, however, I tend to deal with *EVERYTHING* in this way, not just painful / stressful situations. So its not abnormal for me to do things this way. Thanks for the link though, that is quite useful. Cool. My formal training is primarily in mathematics, engineering and theoretical physics. And I do that crap for a living. I guess I was trained to be fairly analytical (whether or not I actually pull that off). You need to be analytical to figure out what happened here - but you need to appeal to that emotional side of the brain (even if it is, at the moment, pea-sized because of neglect) to really figure things out. Your gf/fiance has been emotional in her behavior/responses - you need to be able to "go there" if you're actually going to be able to understand her state of mind and whether or not things are workable. You really do need to think about certain aspects of psychology, family of origin issues, etc. - and whether or not you are a "fixer' up" kind of guy. It could be a long and painful ride if you don't get this settled/fixed/worked-out/etc. before you consider matrimony - and I think you should put that off until these things are hammered out (if they can be). Is it worth it? Best of luck mate. Edited February 9, 2013 by AbeNormal 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 An analytical mind would stick with the evidence while eliminating the emotion. He's looking at the emotional investment and ignoring his evidence. That's not analytical - that's disaster. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sunbeach200 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) OP you havea good mindset. My fiancé cheated on me in July and all I got was “dump him dump him, once a cheat always a cheat”. And I did. The worst mistake for me to do. Because I took him back two weeks ago, then dumped him again. This happened five times in a space of five months . It was emotional chaos and it made my pain worse. In hindsight I should have taken things slowly and waited for my emotions to calm down. Do not react to anything if you are feeling confused. It sounds like your partner is very remorseful. Thats worth giving her a chance. And if you both love each other then make the effort and work it out first. Try all the options, give it time....then make a decision after a year. My advice is to do couple counselling asap because it will help. Wont give any answers but will help with communication. My partnerand I have reconciled properly since December. We are doing counselling together every three weeks as it helps us to communicate better.It hurts when he opens up about his affair but it does me good as well. And we feel alo tcloser after the session. I can tell you that it gets easier with the trus tissue. Its like starting from scratch...she just has to earn it again. Once you are clear about giving her a chance then don’t use the past to vent if its not constructive. Give her the benefit of the doubt and do not fear if she screws up again. Believe in yourself that you can deal with anything that is presented to you in the future. Rebuild your self esteem. She needs to know that she only has this one chance only with you. It can have a happy ending. I know many marriages that have survived affairs and their relationships are better because its more honest. Cheating doesn’t spell the end of your relationship. There is no one size fits all! We are all unique beings so. It will depend on the committment from both of you to rebuild. It will never be forgotten but you can live with it and still be happy. And once a cheat always a cheat? Hell no! Iwas a terrible cheat in my twenties, (I am 42 now)no matter how in love I waswith that person. I stopped cheating in my late twenties and have absolutely NO desire to cheat. My priorites have changed. I will never cheat again! Edited February 9, 2013 by sunbeach200 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sunbeach200 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I do not believe my partner will cheat on me again. The consequences of his actions have been devasting for us as well as our friends and families. He made a mistake and lost control. He is now riddled with guilt and is very ashamed. His self esteem has gone down the toilet. Anmd no its not an act. A serial cheater would not care. Your partner does not sound like a serial cheater Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I do not believe my partner will cheat on me again. The consequences of his actions have been devasting for us as well as our friends and families. He made a mistake and lost control. He is now riddled with guilt and is very ashamed. His self esteem has gone down the toilet. Anmd no its not an act. A serial cheater would not care. Your partner does not sound like a serial cheater You know he won't cheat again? I thought so too - 10 MORE years passed by in my life - then he cheated AGAIN. To think that he won't isn't looking at this realistically. Link to post Share on other sites
anna121 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I am going to be honest and I think your statements about being analytical and having a method are complete bull. You are not acting as someone who is looking at this from an analytical perspective because if you were you judge the situation from the most likely scenario, which is the one that fits most cheaters, instead of the one in a thousand version of this was a horrible mistake and everyone else's experience means nothing. Indeed. Occam's Razor also comes to mind. That is not to say that this couldn't be one of the exceptions to the generally observed dynamics of affairs. But surely a detached, analytical mindset would start from the premise that it isn't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Phateless Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I could buy *YOU* some sexy clothes. It doesnt mean its an appropriate gift, or that you will respond in kind. I know im picking at small points, but everyone seems to be under the impression that they regularly went on huge shopping trips with him buying her gifts left right and center. He bought her a total of 3 things over the 5 years. (that she told me about obviously...) None of which were bought in here presence, they were gifts bought and delivered to her. And all three things were trivial items, nothing of massive financial or emotional significance. She knew it. She just didnt know what to do about it. She has said that nothing physical has happened since the last time 5 years ago. He has indicated he would like to, but she hasnt let him take it further. Again the gifts were trivial and secondary to anything else that happened. I dont disagree there. We are still talking about what she can and NEEDS to do to rectify this. If thats even possible. As I said. I am not prepared to just give up on this relationship without a fight. (not in the literal sense) So I am willing to at least look at all the options, and see if there is a way to make it work. There might not be, that will be a sad day, and i fully appreciate that is a significant probability, but we arent there yet. It seems as if you are just arguing with us because we are so firm in our point of view. Why is it so important to you to split hairs? How would you have acted in that situation if you were her? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AlexDP Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 It seems as if you are just arguing with us because we are so firm in our point of view. Why is it so important to you to split hairs? How would you have acted in that situation if you were her? He is arguing because he isn't sure of his decision. His gut feeling is telling him to walk away, but he knows it's going to hurt so he doesn't want to do it. He wants us to tell him it's okay to stay, because he needs confirmation. The problem is that we won't give it and it angers him, because he needs it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 ".....A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest (doo be dooo)"..... We're all right. He KNOWS he's 'wrong'. But admit it? Deal with it? Do the 'right' thing....? Rather not, thanks. Prefer to struggle along, justifying, accepting, fighting the damn stare-down truth that's right in front of his eyes. Because he doesn't want to lose face, or lose the girl. But he's as good as lost her already, really, because he doesn't have the 'whole' of her..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loversquarrel Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Brooks was here. Link to post Share on other sites
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