Complicated affair

[Brian1]

That's correct about the paternity test. I believe this month or next it should be done. Once that is done, I'll have two options. If it's negative, then of course we all go our separate ways and I try to return to where I was 5 years ago. It could be harder than seems. If it's positive, and I'm sure it will be because of physical features and my girlfriend constantly says to do the test, then of course I will have the birth certificate changed first and then the tough decision will come. Come clean with everyone and go with my girlfriend and my daughter or come clean and see if my wife will stay with me and I will see my daughter on a regular basis in the open. Both of those last two choices are where the great dilemma is for myself. I'm still thinking of the pros and cons of each. Ideally for myself would be, and I know this is ridiculous, selfish and obviously not even an option but if my girlfriend and my daughter could move in with my wife and I and I could go back and forth. It's always been my dream but obviously a nightmare for the others involved. And it's not socially accepted, except in Utah.

[Brian1]

So the latest update on my situation is this. Thursday I got together with my girlfriend and my daughter and we had a fantastic day together. My girlfriend was constantly referring to her future with me and if I left her what would happen. I asked her several times if she would like to marry me and live happily and faithfully the rest of her life with me. She stated unhesitatingly and emphatically, "Absolutely yes!". But then on Friday I had an excellent day with my wife. She was much, much more loving, caring and kind to me than normal. She even asked if I would ever leave her. We both saw the story about Dan Marino and she has mentioned several times over the years about my possible relationship with my girlfriend and the child. I don't know which way to go. I'll keep everyone posted on any new developments.

[Brian1]

Living with the victim and the co-perpetrator is your dream? You are in *such* a bubble. That would be a nightmare. They would hate each other and in your wife's case rightly so. A terribly destructive household and definitely no place for a child.

 

I bet if your wife *lets* you stay (unlikely) you will need to ensure your visitation with your daughter is not with the OW present. Third party handover is not uncommon and I think is absolutely the only way to show any belated respect for your wife. Frankly if I were your wife i would stay unless you gave up parenting rights. Pay the CS and no more. You have a right to see the child not an enforceable duty. Having grown up the child of a cheater it may be better for the child too (contrary to traditional opinion, given that role models are SO detrimental to children, removal of the role model can be better).

 

Well, in regards to your first comment, you need to read my full comment in my original post. I said the same thing that you said.

 

In regards to your second part, my number one preference in the final result is to be with my daughter as much as possible. Every case is different. Every cheater is different. Not all cheaters are bad people. But all cheaters have done a very bad thing by cheating. Have a little sympathy and faith in the goodness of humans. I agree that most cheaters are probably bad people all the way through, especially serial cheaters.

[woinlove]

That's correct about the paternity test. I believe this month or next it should be done. Once that is done, I'll have two options. If it's negative, then of course we all go our separate ways and I try to return to where I was 5 years ago. It could be harder than seems. If it's positive, and I'm sure it will be because of physical features and my girlfriend constantly says to do the test, then of course I will have the birth certificate changed first and then the tough decision will come. Come clean with everyone and go with my girlfriend and my daughter or come clean and see if my wife will stay with me and I will see my daughter on a regular basis in the open. Both of those last two choices are where the great dilemma is for myself. I'm still thinking of the pros and cons of each. Ideally for myself would be, and I know this is ridiculous, selfish and obviously not even an option but if my girlfriend and my daughter could move in with my wife and I and I could go back and forth. It's always been my dream but obviously a nightmare for the others involved. And it's not socially accepted, except in Utah.

 

I know a couple of such cases, and not in Utah, but it was all done openly, honestly, where everyone was treated was respect and participated in the decisions from the start. It was not borne out of a deceptive affair where one partner was made to think they had a monogamous M. Such complex relations rely on a lot of trust.

 

You don't make it clear whether you want to change substantially or not. If you don't and you can't be alone, probably going with the gf is more appropriate. Things, like both being able to pull off the dual-family deception with your unknowing wife, suggest that. Also, five years is a long time for such deception and disrespect, long enough to be a big part of you. Maybe more authentic living is not your goal. Your choice.

[woinlove]

Also, I hope your W's self-esteem is not already shot by not being able to bear a child with you. Small things you write suggest that might be the case. Trying for years to conceive can take a heavy emotional toll for many years, especially when the two spouses are not pulling together and one is invested in a hefty double life. I hope she know she deserves to be treated with respect, as everyone does.

[woinlove]

Anyone can change. Many don't, but if one really wants to, one can change. So good people, bad people. Ehhh, not so useful. Good and bad behaviors, that is useful because one needs to recognize the difference in order to even think of changing. Five years of this kind of deception, bringing the two "families" together secretly with a purposely kept-in-the-dark spouse, yes as a few have commented, not many people could pull off such bad behavior. Yet both you and your gf did. Something to think about that, if you do have an interest in changing.

 

Thankfully, your daughter was too young to remember that event. I can't imagine a child growing up knowing she was used in such a deceptive and disrespectful way. If this isn't sorted out soon, I would suggest therapy for your daughter. She should not have to carry the scars of your poor choices.

[Brian1]

Brian I don't believe good people can do really bad things (ordinary bad thigs yes but not horrible things) and still call themselves good people. I do have faith in humans ability to change and I believe that people can realize how truly awful they have been and become good people (or become again).

 

I don't believe you can be still doing the horrible thing and be a good person. Sorry, I just don't. It doesn't fit with having a viable conscience. Plenty of people have turned their lives around in the manner I mentioned. Woinlive is one since she's right here. You do not yet have that in my view, you're way too easy on yourself.

 

I understand wanting more contact with your daughter. But remember one day she will find out and she may not be unwilling to judge you as I judged my father when I found out. Also you may be dooming her to cheat or be cheated on, there's a high correlation between being affected by infidelity and cheating role models as a child and then being affected as an adult. So all more reasons to change your life to a more authentic and honest one.

 

But mainly regardless of contact with your daughter you have to separate that from the question of your OW. Just because you see the child doesn't mean you have to see the OW.

 

I partially agree with most of what you say. I have to say, that the father of my girlfriend is a well known serial cheater. But the rest of her siblings are married (not exactly happily) and with children. She has one brother and 3 sisters. Also, she has at least 2 half sisters that I know about. Even apart from my helping her, she has had the most success and happiness of anyone in her family. But everything is relative.

[woinlove]

I partially agree with most of what you say. I have to say, that the father of my girlfriend is a well known serial cheater. But the rest of her siblings are married (not exactly happily) and with children. She has one brother and 3 sisters. Also, she has at least 2 half sisters that I know about. Even apart from my helping her, she has had the most success and happiness of anyone in her family. But everything is relative.

 

That and her youth may explain how she could participate in the deceptive family get togethers. I don't think many people could behave like that, but some come out of childhood quite broken. Hopefully, she works on that too, for the sake of her daughter. Family dysfunction is often passed through generations, but it does not have to be that way. If you stepped up and really changed you could do your part to try to not have it end that way. If you want to change, all the best of luck to you. It is a long and challenging path, but well worth it.

[Realist3]

She even asked if I would ever leave her. We both saw the story about Dan Marino and she has mentioned several times over the years about my possible relationship with my girlfriend and the child.

 

I think she knows. So it might not be as difficult as you may think.

 

How did you respond in this discussion?

[Sparkly24]

Its freaking simple.

 

If I was your daughter grown up, and I was hidden away in the mountains like some dirty secret, I would be a very unhappy person. I would wish that I had a normal family life like everyone else.

 

I would be very needy and have confidence issues and would struggle to maintain relationships with men of my own.

 

You have to fix this for your daughter.

 

Leave your wife, marry your girlfriend and be a proper, responsible father to your daughter. Help and support her as a family as she grows up. Let your wife go and meet someone who really loves her and does not lie and keep secrets from her.

 

Or, stay with your wife, let your girlfriend find someone who will love her wholly and give her everything and be a father to your daughter. This situation will never allow you to have the best of both worlds without your daughter being hurt. Yes it was wrong of you to have an affair but everyone makes mistakes, especially on this forum! The real definition of who you are as a person will be shown by the choice you make. I hope it all turns out well for all of you. xxx

[Brian1]

I think she knows. So it might not be as difficult as you may think.

 

How did you respond in this discussion?

 

I just told her that the last thing I ever want to do is be apart from her. And the last 3 weeks I've been in a down mood off and on and she's been wondering why. I think she knows what's going on in my mind.

[Brian1]

Its freaking simple.

 

If I was your daughter grown up, and I was hidden away in the mountains like some dirty secret, I would be a very unhappy person. I would wish that I had a normal family life like everyone else.

 

I would be very needy and have confidence issues and would struggle to maintain relationships with men of my own.

 

You have to fix this for your daughter.

 

Leave your wife, marry your girlfriend and be a proper, responsible father to your daughter. Help and support her as a family as she grows up. Let your wife go and meet someone who really loves her and does not lie and keep secrets from her.

 

Or, stay with your wife, let your girlfriend find someone who will love her wholly and give her everything and be a father to your daughter. This situation will never allow you to have the best of both worlds without your daughter being hurt. Yes it was wrong of you to have an affair but everyone makes mistakes, especially on this forum! The real definition of who you are as a person will be shown by the choice you make. I hope it all turns out well for all of you. xxx

 

First of all, my daughter rarely goes up the mountain. She stays here near me with her aunt and grandmother when my girlfriend goes up the mountain. My daughter goes to school 3 hrs each day and has extra curricular activities 3 times each week. Her mother has been with her constantly up until about 6 weeks ago. Now she's 50/50 here and up the mountain. But just 2 days ago my gf said she wants to sell her store or let her sister operate it again and she wants to come down and be near us constantly again in about 2 weeks. As I said in previous posts, my gf and I had a big confrontation about 4 weeks ago and she believed I didn't love her or want her anymore. But now things seem to be all ironed out. We'll see with time.

[Realist3]

So is it safe to assume that your girlfriend's family knows the whole deal?

[Brian1]

So is it safe to assume that your girlfriend's family knows the whole deal?

 

According to her, no one in her family knows anything but she says they're like my wife, have a good idea. Her sister who is closest to her knows all.

[Brian1]

It might have been a good opening for you to be honest. May I ask why you didn't? What kept you from telling her at that time?

 

I'm with realist on this one, I think it's possible she at least STRONGLY suspects based on things you've said.

 

I still haven't decided how to handle it.

[Realist3]

It might have been a good opening for you to be honest. May I ask why you didn't? What kept you from telling her at that time?

 

I'm with realist on this one, I think it's possible she at least STRONGLY suspects based on things you've said.

 

I agree. I think it was a perfect opportunity to broach the subject, but obviously Brian wasn't ready, andmaybe he didn't want to turn a nice evening into a difficult situation. If I were in his shoes at the moment it would have been very difficult for me not to spill it.

 

I think he's headed in the right direction, it may just take some time for him to come to grips with what will take place.

 

The one thing I am struck by, Brian, is the lack of decisiveness about which path you would like to choose. I can only go by what you have posted, but it seems like your preference would be to stay with your wife and have the visitation/custody with your daughter. You haven't really sold the idea of a new life with your girlfriend and daughter in the same house as what you want to take place, even though she has said that is what she would prefer. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

[Realist3]

According to her, no one in her family knows anything but she says they're like my wife, have a good idea. Her sister who is closest to her knows all.

 

I'm sure they must be questioning where she is getting these resources for the house and business. I would guess they probably know. Are you okay with them? Do you know them? Would you want them to be part of your life? You're not just marrying the girlfriend, but her family as well.

[Survivor12]

It might have been a good opening for you to be honest. May I ask why you didn't? What kept you from telling her at that time?

 

I'm with realist on this one, I think it's possible she at least STRONGLY suspects based on things you've said.

 

I think the answer is pretty obvious--he knows that once his wife knows the truth, he will no longer be in control. Armed with the truth, she will have the freedom to decide for herself what the future holds, and he doesn't want that. He doesn't relish the idea of her right to choose what she wants to interfere with him having what he wants (although he sees nothing wrong with taking that right from her) so he continues to lie.

[veryhappy]

e one thing I am struck by, Brian, is the lack of decisiveness about which path you would like to choose. I can only go by what you have posted, but it seems like your preference would be to stay with your wife and have the visitation/custody with your daughter. You haven't really sold the idea of a new life with your girlfriend and daughter in the same house as what you want to take place, even though she has said that is what she would prefer. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

 

He's not indecisive. He wants his wife, but doesn't want to go through the pain of setting things right. He's also reticent to let go of a woman he doesn't want, but who's fun in the sheets and hey, he bought her youth and her uterus so why not enjoy that for longer. She could be fun 15-20 more years.

 

He's classic clearing MM. He wants it all, and he'll play both sides until the very last minute. That's the sick part about it. He's using everyone and only looking out for himself.

[Brian1]

I'm sure they must be questioning where she is getting these resources for the house and business. I would guess they probably know. Are you okay with them? Do you know them? Would you want them to be part of your life? You're not just marrying the girlfriend, but her family as well.

 

Hey realist3, in response to your earlier comment, yes I would prefer to live the rest of my life with my wife with visitations with my daughter. But I could also be very happy living the rest of my life with my girlfriend and being with my daughter constantly. The difficult part for me is whoever I stay with, I will really, really miss the other who I don't stay with. And also the 3rd possibility would be that I get left alone and the two women also get left alone. That would be the worst for me, obviously. Up to this minute, I have good and bad moments with each woman. When I am having a bad moment with my girlfriend, I always think I would much rather be with my wife. And of course when I have bad moments with my wife, I always think I would much rather be with my girlfriend. And this goes back and forth several times each day in my mind. My life with my girlfriend and my daughter would be much more alive and fun. But my wife is 100% committed to me and completely loyal and faithful. I don't know how my girlfriend would be over the long term. It's a high risk gamble to go completely with my girlfriend. If all goes well, it would be just what I want. But if it doesn't go well, then I would be in a very,very bad position. So I don't know what the hell to do. Each day is very different from the previous. It's like a vicious roller-coaster.

As far as her family goes, yes I'm fine with them. I've always got along well with her sisters, especially the one who is closest to her.

[Realist3]

Hey realist3, in response to your earlier comment, yes I would prefer to live the rest of my life with my wife with visitations with my daughter. But I could also be very happy living the rest of my life with my girlfriend and being with my daughter constantly. The difficult part for me is whoever I stay with, I will really, really miss the other who I don't stay with. And also the 3rd possibility would be that I get left alone and the two women also get left alone. That would be the worst for me, obviously. Up to this minute, I have good and bad moments with each woman. When I am having a bad moment with my girlfriend, I always think I would much rather be with my wife. And of course when I have bad moments with my wife, I always think I would much rather be with my girlfriend. And this goes back and forth several times each day in my mind. My life with my girlfriend and my daughter would be much more alive and fun. But my wife is 100% committed to me and completely loyal and faithful. I don't know how my girlfriend would be over the long term. It's a high risk gamble to go completely with my girlfriend. If all goes well, it would be just what I want. But if it doesn't go well, then I would be in a very,very bad position. So I don't know what the hell to do. Each day is very different from the previous. It's like a vicious roller-coaster.

As far as her family goes, yes I'm fine with them. I've always got along well with her sisters, especially the one who is closest to her.

Well thought out response. Unfortunately, I have to run right now. Get what you are saying. Back later.

[Brian1]

This is the martyring, cake eaters way of life.

Deluding himself into thinking both women will fall apart and be miserable without him.

 

The truth is that I would fall apart and be miserable without either one of them. I love them both but in very different ways. In the areas where I don't love one, I love the other. And vice versa. A perfect woman for me to love would be a combination of my wife and my girlfriend. So, maybe the theory about married men having affairs to fill voids they have in their current relationship is correct. It is certainly true for myself. This being said, I still feel that getting involved in an affair is the worst thing that anyone could ever do. In the long run, there are only major problems and tremendous pain to deal with. I still say to those wannabes, DON'T DO IT!

[woinlove]

This being said, I still feel that getting involved in an affair is the worst thing that anyone could ever do. In the long run, there are only major problems and tremendous pain to deal with. I still say to those wannabes, DON'T DO IT!

 

Doesn't ring true, since you are still in an affair and still married and still deceiving your wife. Your "do as I say not as I do" comes across as rather meaningless. You have to dig deeper to figure out what you really believe. When your actions align with your words, then there will be some meaning.

[Brian1]

Yeah, she's playing you. And when she threatened to out your 'relationship' to everyone and their brother, you knew she had you by the balls. All of a sudden, you were willing to play nice again so you weren't exposed.

 

She's got a great gig going. Being 100% supported and she doesn't have to work. That means she has 7 days a week to play with her mountain man up there in God's country.

 

While you foot the bill.

 

Sweet.

 

But I'm a bit stumped. All these married men always use their kids as an excuse not to leave their wives. They have their OW totally snowed, thinking they're the best daddys on earth because of their unflinching dedication to these oh so precious children they've fathered.

 

You don't HAVE any kids - and yet you stay.

 

Hmmm. Odd.

 

I hear exactly what you're saying. I'm in the reverse position as most MM's. Often I have thought that she is taking advantage of me just to get the money, but then I talk to her in depth and she convinces me of her dedication. And every time I have had suspicions of one thing or another, after thorough investigation, I always find my suspicions unfounded. Also, many times she has said she can get a full time job and support herself and she will still stay with me exactly as she is now. But I always declined because I want her to take care of and be with our daughter 100%. Although over the last 6 weeks she has been slipping quite a bit, which really upsets me.

[Brian1]

Doesn't ring true, since you are still in an affair and still married and still deceiving your wife. Your "do as I say not as I do" comes across as rather meaningless. You have to dig deeper to figure out what you really believe. When your actions align with your words, then there will be some meaning.

 

I say DON'T DO IT! because I know the long term results are only pain and suffering. But if someone is already involved in an affair, I say GOOD LUCK! I wish you and all involved the best.