Complicated affair

[Realist3]

Wow, and that group includes BS and OW on this thread in agreement.

 

So, is the XYZ group comprised of women who find these actions dishonest?

 

That's a group I'm proud to be in.

 

The OP is not here for judgements on his actions. He knows full well the errors of his actions.

 

This is about moving forward, not chastising someone for what has already taken place. Some of you can't seem to grasp that fact. What is done is done. Trying to extract ill will on that serves no purpose.

[Realist3]

The BS's on here can find his actions to be whatever they want. But the last time I checked he wasn't on here to get a public flogging. I know... I know... some of you can't help yourselves.

[jwi71]

You need to keep in mind how a paternity test works. Two parties need to give samples. Some people work and some people go to school and some people are difficult to pin down. Obviously, I need to be in the lab with my daughter at the same time that the samples are taken. Next Tuesday has been scheduled for the process.

 

As others have said...you can buy court accepted OTC DNA tests - this was true 5 years ago in my D - I don't think that has changed.

 

Or you can go and have the test done in a physician's office. Whatever is most comfortable to you.

 

Actually. Scratch that. Why don't you ask your lawyer? You know, the professional with years of training and experience in these matters that you hired. I doubt that you are the first cheating H to have father a child out of wedlock. I bet your lawyer can give you GREAT advice on the law, steps to take and when to take them. Far better than any of us could....

 

And since all start dates are arbitrary - when is this happening again?

 

I see lots of talk and obfuscation and the general lack of "doing anything" besides talk. A plan forever remains a plan unless it is acted upon.

[Brian1]

OP,

what you may see as lack of compassion is words of wisdom from people who have been where your wife is. She is the one person in this trio who doesn't know what is going on, and she will pay the heaviest price ( of the adults, your daughter will pay the heaviest price overall)...

 

as for her being the only one who's happy...

 

let me tell you something that you may not realize...

 

your wife knows something is wrong with you ( you say she tells you to cheer up). She knows something's weighing on you, but she doesn't know what. she'll try her best to make you happy, to bring peace to your heart...but before long, she'll start to blame herself for you being unhappy. She'll desperately try to make things better, but she won't be able to. She won't wnat to make things worse for you by showing her unhappiness, so she'll go out of her way to seem super happy all the time...

 

that happens so often it isn't even funny, and it lulls wayward spouses into thinking that their cheating isn't hurting anyone or that their spouse is okay with it. Likely, she trusts you, she knows something is wrong, she loves you and wants to make it better for you, so she goes out of her way to be happy, upbeat and not show her sadness.

 

many, many betrayed spouses experience this...you know something's wrong, but don't know what it is...unless you have no conscience at all, this must be weighing on you, and it shows

 

( you're becoming like the man in my signature...the longer you let it go on, the worse it's going to be)

 

Everything you said about my wifes' actions sound spot on.

[Realist3]

fine, he loves two people.

 

is that what his wife agreed to when she married him? Most likely not. It's not for him to decide what she has going on in her life. The OP is inviting a whole pile of BS ( and I don't mean "betrayed spouse") into he life without her consent or permission.

 

As for her being okay with this....Pffttt...how many wives would be okay with their husband having a child with another woman while they are married to them, lying about it, and four years later springing it on them out of the blue.

 

She probably didn't sign up for that, but that is what she is faced with. And yes, it was his decision to fall in love with someone else and it is his decision to let his wife know about it.

 

You can argue about the rights and wrongs of that 'til we are blue in the face, but it really serves no purpose but for people to pontificate about their perceptions.

[Brian1]

As others have said...you can buy court accepted OTC DNA tests - this was true 5 years ago in my D - I don't think that has changed.

 

Or you can go and have the test done in a physician's office. Whatever is most comfortable to you.

 

Actually. Scratch that. Why don't you ask your lawyer? You know, the professional with years of training and experience in these matters that you hired. I doubt that you are the first cheating H to have father a child out of wedlock. I bet your lawyer can give you GREAT advice on the law, steps to take and when to take them. Far better than any of us could....

 

And since all start dates are arbitrary - when is this happening again?

 

I see lots of talk and obfuscation and the general lack of "doing anything" besides talk. A plan forever remains a plan unless it is acted upon.

 

All of my legal actions are done according to my lawyers recommendations. He clearly stated not to use a home test kit. Plus he told me to be present when the sample is taken from my daughter.

Like I stated in a previous post, the plan is already in action.

[Realist3]

I feel the same, realist3. But I honestly appreciate all replies. Even the replies against me make me think. They must be beneficial in some way. But I really feel good reading pro posts (sometimes) like yours and others like LFH, for example.

 

 

Thanks. When you place your situation on a public forum you will get all sorts of reactions. You take from them what you will.

 

I'm not pro your situation, but I don't see how beating you up for it contributes to anything positive moving forward. You have already expressed that you know it needs to change.

[woinlove]

I feel the same, realist3. But I honestly appreciate all replies. Even the replies against me make me think. They must be beneficial in some way. But I really feel good reading pro posts (sometimes) like yours and others like LFH, for example.

 

There is no question there is a difference in views between people actively involved in affairs who have no plans on stopping the deception and those who really think deception sucks and choose not to be involved in such deception. I know you say the deception sucks, but you have kept it up for 5 years and even when your W has brought up the topic, you've chosen to keep lying. So, it can't suck all that much since you keep choosing to do it, right?

 

I'll be curious if you do decide to be honest, how that will feel and how long it will last. I do think behavior over years becomes a part of you and is not easy to just put aside. When another situation arises where you can be honest with the one you love or you can be dishonest and get something you want, what will prevent you from choosing dishonesty again? If you want to be honest, I wish you all the luck in the world with that. But I think your honesty may be only partial and short-lived, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[jwi71]

All of my legal actions are done according to my lawyers recommendations. He clearly stated not to use a home test kit. Plus he told me to be present when the sample is taken from my daughter.

Like I stated in a previous post, the plan is already in action.

 

Well then there is not much left to offer or ask for...you have engaged legal counsel and devised your way through this.

 

Your path and plan are in place and happening.

 

Good luck - you're gonna need it - actually, you'll need a good lawyer. Its gonna get ugly and messy.

[Realist3]

I understand you nor anyone else, including myself, is pro my situation. I prefer the punches from this forum than those I'll receive once I tell my wife.

 

LOL! You are right about that. They are toughening you up.

[Brian1]

You think we're bad?????????

 

Wait until his wife finds out, or his AP finds a man who support her and his daughter and live life out loud....or his daughter grows up not knowing him, or sensing he's ashamed of her.

 

It may be done for Brain, but it is only beginning for the other three women in his life......just wait....

 

I really think everyone will be alright in the end. I have faith. There will be a great deal of emotional pain, but after awhile, I believe all will be well.

[Realist3]

You think we're bad?????????

 

Wait until his wife finds out, or his AP finds a man who support her and his daughter and live life out loud....or his daughter grows up not knowing him, or sensing he's ashamed of her.

 

It may be done for Brain, but it is only beginning for the other three women in his life......just wait....

 

No one is denying that it will be tough, certainly not me.

 

It goes back to a previously discussed topic on the other board about some who like to take out their anger that serves no purpose.

[ThatJustHappened]

He already has a relationship with both of them. Fixed himself from what? Fixed himself from the fact that he loves two people? You are suggesting he should 'fix' himself to meet your accepted societal norm. From what we know now one is okay with it, and other other strongly suspects it. They might be both okay with it.

 

Because that happens so often.

 

Judging strictly from his posts..not from prejudices, not from comparisons, but from the OPs posts, he sounds like an extreme narcissist and control freak. That's what needs to be fixed.

[woinlove]

Telling his wife, telling her he wants to be with her and then really not being willing to make that committment can only be worse I'd think. I'm surmising, I don't really know... but I would think that knowing his mind would be crucial BEFORE he starts trying to make any changes. ESPECIALLY anything that's going to upset his little girl's world.

 

I wonder if this is possible. People describe the emotions after d-day as a roller coaster and tumultuous for both BS and WS. WS sometimes also describe how seeing the enormity of the pain of their spouse changes them. Brian himself says he doesn't know what to expect after d-day. Any plan he makes now may be blown to bits with d-day.

 

And then there is the impact of his W figuring out when and how he told her. She just brought up this topic and he choose to continue to deceive her. She'll know that. She'll know he decided first to go through steps 1 through x and present her with what he thinks is a worked out plan in his own head. It is like in the decision to tell her, he is still treating her like one might treat a stranger or an employee, not a partner or spouse.

 

If he decides to file for divorce after his name is on the birth certificate, then this will be an ending to their M in keeping with how he has treated it for the last 5 years, and as good an ending as one is likely to get under the circumstances. But if he ultimately decides he wants to stay married, he will have spent this time moving farther away from that goal in how he is treating his wife right now. At some point there is a limit to returning. Perhaps he has long passed that limit and how he tells her is irrelevant. But if not, he might consider if he wants to move farther away or not, just in case he decides he'd like to stay married.

 

Having said all that, I get the sense, Brian, that you figure you need to manage the OW and keep her happy to get your name on the birth certificate and that is what is driving your first steps. You know her, we don't. Still, by law, you can't be denied the rights of a father if she is your daughter. In the end, it is just simplifying your life to work through a plan that gets your name on the birth certificate now. But there are so many things that may have already cost you your M, that perhaps adding to the pile does not seem like a big deal.

Edited February 5, 2013 by woinlove

[Survivor12]

Like always, another great post from an understanding, compassionate person.

 

Do you really believe that people who disagree with what you are doing and are concerned about your wife and child are not understanding nor compassionate?

[woinlove]

That came to mind for me too.

It was the "perfect" opening in my mind, since he already had faced the fact that he was going to have to reveal. I would have jumped at that seguey personally. No matter how hard it was going to be.

 

Yes, I expect it will pop into his W's mind after she learns the truth too.

 

I imagine it only gets more difficult to reveal the truth once one has let such openings go. But, I'm just guessing. This kind of deception and how one maintains it is a mystery to me. I'm kind of the opposite and have never found it difficult to just tell who I was with what I was thinking and feeling, even if that included lusting after someone else. But, then I've never had the desire to control a relationship - I always view an R as a joint entity. I'm learning here that MM can have a strong desire to control the whole R.

[BrokenPrincess]

 

Judging strictly from his posts..not from prejudices, not from comparisons, but from the OPs posts, he sounds like an extreme narcissist and control freak. That's what needs to be fixed.

 

I've never joined the narcissistic conversation before, but Brian, your post on the thread about how your affair started really gave some additional insight to your mentality. You said that you *almost* had an affair before OW, but stopped yourself before becoming physical. Then when this OW came along, you "didn't want to miss this opportunity this time" since you might not get another chance at an affair.

 

I've only been in here since October, but I've never read a story where the cheating spouse demonstrated such a sense of entitlement. It wasn't about the strong intital attraction to OW, it was about not missing your chance this time to sleep with a new woman.

 

IMO your posts here don't seem convinced that you believe in the long-term happiness in a relationship with just OW. Plus, I'm sure you will lose some of your control over her when you become equal relationship partners out in the open, and that control over her seems very important to you.

[Brian1]

I've never joined the narcissistic conversation before, but Brian, your post on the thread about how your affair started really gave some additional insight to your mentality. You said that you *almost* had an affair before OW, but stopped yourself before becoming physical. Then when this OW came along, you "didn't want to miss this opportunity this time" since you might not get another chance at an affair.

 

I've only been in here since October, but I've never read a story where the cheating spouse demonstrated such a sense of entitlement. It wasn't about the strong intital attraction to OW, it was about not missing your chance this time to sleep with a new woman.

 

IMO your posts here don't seem convinced that you believe in the long-term happiness in a relationship with just OW. Plus, I'm sure you will lose some of your control over her when you become equal relationship partners out in the open, and that control over her seems very important to you.

 

I was 40 years old when I started my affair. I didn't even think about another woman romantically, besides my wife, until I was about 38. I believe it's part of that so called mid-life crisis thing where men feel like they're transitioning into their old age stage and somewhere in their mind they still want to know if they are still desirable to younger women. According to all psychiatrists, men naturally want and need more than one sexual partner. But society, civilized behavior and man made rules say that's not going to happen. But men and women throughout history have fought to stick to their natural instincts. Needing to hide out and live a double life in secrecy just because their natural behaviors are not accepted socially. Don't get me wrong, I am as much against cheating as anyone else, but I'm saying that having more than one lover is perfectly natural and normal. The cheating, deceiving and lying part is what is not natural and normal. But those actions are by-products of natural and normal behavior. Any mutually loving relationship is always a good thing. But having to do so in secrecy like you're suffering from leprosy is not fair. So, the whole topic of affairs is an interesting topic if you delve into it without concentrating on the cheating, deceiving and lying part. Why do people have affairs? Simple, because it's natural. If anyone doesn't believe or agree with what I say, just research it.

Another interesting and surprising affair I just recently found out about was that of Charles Lindbergh. Very interesting.

[Brian1]

By the way, we cheaters are not all selfish, narcissistic pigs. Like some might think. Some are, but most are not. I like to use Dan Marino as a perfect example. Take away the news of his affair, and you have a person very hard to beat in the area of "upstanding citizen".

[woinlove]

I was 40 years old when I started my affair. I didn't even think about another woman romantically, besides my wife, until I was about 38. I believe it's part of that so called mid-life crisis thing where men feel like they're transitioning into their old age stage and somewhere in their mind they still want to know if they are still desirable to younger women. According to all psychiatrists, men naturally want and need more than one sexual partner. But society, civilized behavior and man made rules say that's not going to happen. But men and women throughout history have fought to stick to their natural instincts. Needing to hide out and live a double life in secrecy just because their natural behaviors are not accepted socially. Don't get me wrong, I am as much against cheating as anyone else, but I'm saying that having more than one lover is perfectly natural and normal. The cheating, deceiving and lying part is what is not natural and normal. But those actions are by-products of natural and normal behavior. Any mutually loving relationship is always a good thing. But having to do so in secrecy like you're suffering from leprosy is not fair. So, the whole topic of affairs is an interesting topic if you delve into it without concentrating on the cheating, deceiving and lying part. Why do people have affairs? Simple, because it's natural. If anyone doesn't believe or agree with what I say, just research it.

Another interesting and surprising affair I just recently found out about was that of Charles Lindbergh. Very interesting.

 

Bullocks. I have been in a happy, open M for 25 years. If people want to be honest and loyal, they can be. Those who aren't, clearly don't want to in comparison to what they can get by being dishonest. You did not want your W to be able to make her own choice, so you lied to her. That shows a comfort with dishonesty, disrespect and disloyalty that many don't have.

 

I don't particuarly like monogamy, so I'm not monogamous. But h*ll if I am going to become dishonest and disloyal just because I don't want to be monogamous. Own all your choices. Making excuses for them just limits your future possibilities.

 

Some men who don't like monogamy, want and expect their partners to be monogamous. I've seen suggestions of that in your posts. If that is the case,that is pretty selfish. Of course, all the deception is selfish anyway.

Edited February 6, 2013 by woinlove

[woinlove]

That's the part I'm having a hard time with, I wish the OP would just face that he's being selfish and that's why it's what he wants that matters.I admit that's why I'm not changing anything...it makes no sense for me to say otherwise.

It's easier to give helpful and relevant feedback if the poster is being honest with themselves. The thing is I don't know if he realizes that yet, and that's something that will be helpful to him.

 

Sometimes it has to rattle around for a while before one's perspective shifts a bit. I see a need to be seen as a "good person" impeding the examination of the specific topic of this thread, the A and all it's aftermath involving at least 4 people.

 

I'm not a big one on good vs bad people, preferring to look at good vs bad behaviors. A so-called bad person and a so-called good person doing exactly the same thing at some point in time, are both exhibiting the same behavior which may be either good or bad or neutral.

 

Brian, if it helps you, I'm happy to go along with the idea that you are a good person (whatever that might mean to you or others - as I said it doesn't mean much to me. We're not here to discuss your volunteer work or charitable donations, which as far as I'm concerned would still be discussing behaviors and not whether you are a good or bad person.) Then, lets look at your specific behavior in this affair and what it says. Would you not describe it as selfish and dishonest?

[woinlove]

That's a good point, LFH. LS has certainly been an eye-opener to me about the pain of the BS, as well as the pain of many OW (my own experiences as an OW were not painful because I protected myself well).

 

I have no idea how your W will react, Brian, but I have noticed a tendency here on LS for both WS and OW to think the BS must be aware of the affair on some level, and yet all the stories from BS show quite a different picture and they seem to be hit like a ton of bricks, often describing a level of pain that they have never felt before. Given your W's desire to have children with you, I do wonder just how bad this can get. I do believe people can find strength they never knew possible, but it can still take many years of being at the very bottom to get there. No one deserves such years and it can change them in ways one cannot predict. I certainly hope the fallout is not as bad as the details of your situation would suggest they are going to be. But I wonder what your cockiness in this respect is based on.

[Brian1]

Sometimes it has to rattle around for a while before one's perspective shifts a bit. I see a need to be seen as a "good person" impeding the examination of the specific topic of this thread, the A and all it's aftermath involving at least 4 people.

 

I'm not a big one on good vs bad people, preferring to look at good vs bad behaviors. A so-called bad person and a so-called good person doing exactly the same thing at some point in time, are both exhibiting the same behavior which may be either good or bad or neutral.

 

Brian, if it helps you, I'm happy to go along with the idea that you are a good person (whatever that might mean to you or others - as I said it doesn't mean much to me. We're not here to discuss your volunteer work or charitable donations, which as far as I'm concerned would still be discussing behaviors and not whether you are a good or bad person.) Then, lets look at your specific behavior in this affair and what it says. Would you not describe it as selfish and dishonest?

 

I agree that people can be a good person but engage in bad behaviors. And vice versa. In regards to my affair, I certainly agree that my behavior has been terrible, dishonest and selfish. My lying, deceiving, ... But my love for all three ladies involved (voluntarily or involuntarily) is not bad or questionable.

[woinlove]

I agree that people can be a good person but engage in bad behaviors. And vice versa. In regards to my affair, I certainly agree that my behavior has been terrible, dishonest and selfish. My lying, deceiving, ... But my love for all three ladies involved (voluntarily or involuntarily) is not bad or questionable.

 

By the bolded, I assume you mean your feelings of love. Love is also active. My H and I demonstrate our love for each other every day. The way you have demonstrated your love for all three is definitely questionable, imo, and as I have said above, I fear for the fallout. Actually, the fallout on all three of them, because of how you have chosen to act on your love for them, although above I focussed on your BW. Feelings of love are internal to you. They in themselves don't impact others. But how you demonstrate that love does impact others. And I see a lot of bad there in how you've demonstrated your love, with such selfishness and deception.

[Decorative]

Upstanding citizen.....not so much to the people who matter the most...his family.

 

Yup. it's how he treated those people when no one was watching or reporting on him that matters.