Complicated affair

[Realist3]

Cheating is an overt attempt to trick your spouse to stay married to you by trying to make them believe a false reality. If the truth comes out, they may or may not stay married to you, they may make different choices, they may choose not to have children, not to move, not to pass up a career move, whatever. There is malice in treating someone that way.

 

The result may be harm, but the intent is not. Again those attempts of trickery or whatever are made not to cause harm.

[BrokenPrincess]

By the way, we cheaters are not all selfish, narcissistic pigs. Like some might think. Some are, but most are not. I like to use Dan Marino as a perfect example. Take away the news of his affair, and you have a person very hard to beat in the area of "upstanding citizen".

 

Of course all cheaters are selfish (myself included). Choosing to partake in an affair for personal gratification despite knowing you're hurting your spouse is the definition of selfishness.

 

I did not say all cheaters are narcissistic, but I do perceive you are narcissistic based on your entitlement to have an affair, so focused on yourself. Example- having OW to your house for Christmas without empathy for your unsuspecting wife who's unable to give you a child, etc. And on the other side of the triangle, getting angry with OW if she may potentially be seeing someone else at the same time as you.

 

No one called you a pig except yourself.

[Decorative]

Why would he have to sell you on anything? You should be able to pick it up on your own.

 

He never had the thought, "I'm just going to go hurt the crap out of my wife."

 

He had the knowledge it was wrong. The instinct to cover his a**. The instinct to lie to me and our children. He has said he knew it would hurt me. He rationalized it at the moment and rewrote history to justify getting that continued hit off the affair.

 

Only a person without empathy or the ability to understand right from wrong would think it would not hurt me.

 

it's why he hid it. it's why your OW lies. It's why you don't make your relationship public. You may claim you don't intend malice- but your actions serve as an attempt to cover it up.

 

And we all know how the saying goes. Actions speak louder.

[Brian1]

Upstanding citizen.....not so much to the people who matter the most...his family.

 

Oh yeah, why don`t you ask his family. If I recall, his family remains ¨strong and happy.¨ Look, affairs are not good in anyones book, but they also are not 100% bad.

[Brian1]

Yup. it's how he treated those people when no one was watching or reporting on him that matters.

 

Easy to say that for yourself. But life is much more complex than your black and white view.

[Brian1]

love schmove:laugh:

 

"love" doesn't somehow make everything okay. It doesn't excuse poor treatment or bad behavior. It doesn't eliminate pain or erase sadness.

 

Do you think your wife and daughter will care one iota that you "loved" them while you were treating them so baldy? Trust me, it won't matter one bit.

 

As for men and women naturally not being monogamous....there's an awful lot of us who are, and don't have a desire to be any other way. Those who aren't cut out for monogamy don't need to be dishonest to have that need met. They can do so openly and honestly. They can either not get married or get married and have an open marriage that's built on honesty and commitment.

 

Your marriage is none of those, and if one is to base their prediction on your behavior upon the comments you make re: monogamy, most would give the idea that you could remain faithful to your wife and not cheat again a pretty poor chance, as you are still rationalizing your behavior and trying to find ways to make it okay.

 

whether your views on monogamy are wrong, right or a combination, when your wife married you, she married someone who she thought we be monogamous with her and honest with her. You are neither of those. If you don't want to be with just her, then divorce her and you can be with whomever you please, and so can she. I honestly don't get what purpose she serves for you in your life right now.You say you love her, but if you love someone, you don't hurt them, you don't lie to them and if you do, you feel bad about it. You feel bad that you hurt the, It breaks your heart to know you've hurt them. To be honest, there's not a lot of that in your posts...instead, there's a whole lot of rationalization and butt covering...

 

Well, frozensprouts, I have to say many of your posts have been quite accurate on my feelings and my situation. But this particular post is way, way off base. I do believe in monogamy and I can guarantee I will never again make the same mistake that I made in this case. I was just saying that being monogamous is not natural and is very, very difficult. But I still believe it is the best route for everyone, but it takes a lot of effort.

[Brian1]

No, no, no. Malice is about the desire or intent to hurt someone.

 

This has been discussed before. The very fact that affairs are kept secret shows the absence of malice.

 

Precisely correct.

[eleanorrigby]

Well, frozensprouts, I have to say many of your posts have been quite accurate on my feelings and my situation. But this particular post is way, way off base. I do believe in monogamy and I can guarantee I will never again make the same mistake that I made in this case. I was just saying that being monogamous is not natural and is very, very difficult. But I still believe it is the best route for everyone, but it takes a lot of effort.

 

If you feel as if monogamy is not natural and extremely hard to maintain, maybe you would be better off as a single person.

 

It's not a bad thing to realize that some things just are not for you. For instance, I could never climb Everest, even if I had the money, physiologically I couldn't do it. I'd pass out at base camp and die. ::

 

Maybe marriage is your Everest.

[Brian1]

Of course its questionable - I'd certainly call it bad.

 

So you have an OW who you love and she loves you in return. Unless she is cheating on you then forget about it. Your words not mine. Well...why?

 

Why is it you can love and cheat on your W and yet your OW is not allowed to love and cheat on you?

 

And do you love your daughter SO much she isn't allowed to call you daddy in public? Do tell how that preventing your daughter from expressing her love TO you is showing your love TO her.

 

The word love appears many times in this thread yet methinks the only real love shown is in the mirror. That's what your actions say to me. And if some random internet guy can draw that conclusion...well, when all this and its many layers comes out - yeah..."hell on Earth" will be what you wish for.

 

smh

 

My OW can love anyone she wants to love and it may be real love or just lust. But it is possible for a person to be deeply in love with more than one person. I know most will say it`s not possible but those are the one`s who haven`t experienced it. Lucky for them. My daughter expresses her love for me deeply every time I see her. I just try not to put her in the position where she sees me around people who know me and my girlfriend. But that will soon be ending. Some people, maybe not yourself, have been lucky enough to experience many, many forms of love. I have. And all forms are GREAT.

[Brian1]

Not true. You're rationalizing.

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't know of anyone who has done the horrible things you have. If it were natural, wouldn't everyone have a secret lovechild with their affair partner of 5 years?

 

 

 

Okay, having to hide your second relationship isn't fair. So why don't you just tell everyone and be open about it? You say any mutually loving relationship is always a good thing, so won't your situation be perfect if you just stop hiding everything? Both of your relationships must be a good thing, right? So why can't they exist out in the open together?

 

 

 

Kind of how calculus is an interesting topic if you delve into it without concentrating on the limits, derivatives, and integrals part.

 

You're pretty good at lying to yourself and rationalizing your behavior. I can see how you've managed to pull the wool over people's eyes for so long.

 

I don`t agree with cheating and I am ashamed of what I`ve done. But the religious rules and societal righteousness is what makes people so paranoid and feel like lepers when they commit a moral mistake. We are all humans, we all make mistakes and some mistakes may cause more damage than others but when we make mistakes we don`t need to be crusified.

[Decorative]

I don`t agree with cheating and I am ashamed of what I`ve done. But the religious rules and societal righteousness is what makes people so paranoid and feel like lepers when they commit a moral mistake. We are all humans, we all make mistakes and some mistakes may cause more damage than others but when we make mistakes we don`t need to be crusified.

 

I'm an atheist.

 

I'm not paranoid about religious rules.

 

 

Your behavior is wrong. Every minute it goes on- it's wrong.

 

And you did not commit a moral mistake. You made a choice .

[sweetjasmine]

I don`t agree with cheating and I am ashamed of what I`ve done. But the religious rules and societal righteousness is what makes people so paranoid and feel like lepers when they commit a moral mistake. We are all humans, we all make mistakes and some mistakes may cause more damage than others but when we make mistakes we don`t need to be crusified.

 

It's absurd to describe what you have done as a mistake. You didn't trip on the sidewalk or accidentally drop grandma's favorite antique crystal vase.

 

Lying to your wife's face for 5 years is not a mistake. It's a choice. Stringing along your OW for 5 years is not a mistake. It's a choice. Keeping your own child a dirty little secret for 3 years is not a mistake. It's a choice.

 

You have made a series of choices. Own them and face the consequences of your own actions. And cut it out with the self-pity and excuses.

[Brian1]

No. My H and I are honest with each other about any other romantic interests. That shows an absence of malice, that we treat each other with respect, love and honesty.

 

Affairs are kept secret so that one can have a spouse kept in the dark, believing she/he is living in an exclusive M, while the reality is something different.

 

You and I have very different opinions about what it means to choose to treat someone with respect, loyalty and absence of malice.

 

I personally believe that an open marriage is much worse than an affair. At least in an afair, there is love involved. In an open marriage, each part

y knows the other is emotionally and sexually invoved with at least one other person.

[Brian1]

Huh?? What are you talking about? Do you even know how honest and open R work? My H and I have always been open and honest about our desires, our plans, and our actions with respect to romantic interests. We do this because we love and respect each other and we have an agreement to be open and honest about such matters. You are so far off base in saying that people who do not lie and betray their partners don't care about hurting them. Your post seems off in la-la land. Talk to some people who have open and honest R, because you don't seem to understand how they work.

 

la-la land? love and respect? in an open marriage? come on, let`s get real! Who`s in la-la land?

[Decorative]

la-la land? love and respect? in an open marriage? come on, let`s get real! Who`s in la-la land?

 

Not woinlove.

 

She's honest and open and upfront. Everyone in her life has full consent and access to the truth.

[2sunny]

Back on topic... Have you told your wife yet?

[Brian1]

Of course all cheaters are selfish (myself included). Choosing to partake in an affair for personal gratification despite knowing you're hurting your spouse is the definition of selfishness.

 

I did not say all cheaters are narcissistic, but I do perceive you are narcissistic based on your entitlement to have an affair, so focused on yourself. Example- having OW to your house for Christmas without empathy for your unsuspecting wife who's unable to give you a child, etc. And on the other side of the triangle, getting angry with OW if she may potentially be seeing someone else at the same time as you.

 

No one called you a pig except yourself.

 

The pig reference was used by others. The Christmas invite was i nitiated by my wife and I was uncomfortable with it.

[Brian1]

If you feel as if monogamy is not natural and extremely hard to maintain, maybe you would be better off as a single person.

 

It's not a bad thing to realize that some things just are not for you. For instance, I could never climb Everest, even if I had the money, physiologically I couldn't do it. I'd pass out at base camp and die. ::

 

Maybe marriage is your Everest.

 

Monogamy is something I always desired and aspired to, but unsuccessfully.

[Brian1]

I'm an atheist.

 

I'm not paranoid about religious rules.

 

 

Your behavior is wrong. Every minute it goes on- it's wrong.

 

And you did not commit a moral mistake. You made a choice .

 

I agree with you 100%.

Off topic, if my wife cheated on me (and who knows if she has) I definitely would not want to know about it. And if my gf has a companion, I don`t want to know about it eaither.

[Brian1]

Not woinlove.

 

She's honest and open and upfront. Everyone in her life has full consent and access to the truth.

 

Maybe so, but wild orgies aren`t exactly what stable people engage in.

[woinlove]

la-la land? love and respect? in an open marriage? come on, let`s get real! Who`s in la-la land?

 

Obviously, you and I are very different. I'm an atheist, so I don't choose my behavior based on religion. I choose my behavior based on values that are important to me and treating others, particularly those I love, with respect, giving them honesty and openness, is very important to me. I want them to be able to count on me and trust me. That is what is important to me and it is also what is important to my H. We both strive to treat others with respect by being open and honest so they can make their own informed choices too.

 

I am not surprised you find such behavior off-putting. It is the opposite of how you chose to treat others. And, no you did not make a mistake. When someone chooses dishonesty and disloyalty for five years that is not a mistake. Someone accidently cutting to the front of a line one time is a mistake. Someone who spends years cutting to the front of the line because they are selfish and don't care about other people is not making a mistake. They are demonstrating their values. Just as you have done.

 

I don't think you realize that if you actually want to live a life with honesty, loyalty and demonstrating love of others, you will actually have to change. Continuing to be the person you are now is not going to get you there.

[Brian1]

Back on topic... Have you told your wife yet?

 

Process is in motion. Telling my wife is step #3. We`re still on step #1. (Paternity Test)

[sweetjasmine]

Off topic, if my wife cheated on me (and who knows if she has) I definitely would not want to know about it. And if my gf has a companion, I don`t want to know about it eaither.

 

Why wouldn't you want to know? If they did cheat on you, wouldn't that just be a little moral mistake? I mean, everyone would be okay in the end, and maybe your wife or gf would actually love two different people, so why wouldn't you want to know?

[woinlove]

Maybe so, but wild orgies aren`t exactly what stable people engage in.

 

You clearly know nothing about open M.

[woinlove]

I agree with you 100%.

Off topic, if my wife cheated on me (and who knows if she has) I definitely would not want to know about it. And if my gf has a companion, I don`t want to know about it eaither.

 

But you started this thread expressing your concerns that the OW had a boyfriend and you explicitly said if she did you wanted to know. Have you changed your mind in the last couple days or are you just saying what you think might give a rationalization for your own behavior?