Complicated affair

[Brian1]

Brian,

 

your wife will be hurt. very deeply. but if you really do love her, you will want to do what's best for her, and what's bets for her is knowing the truth so that she can make informed decisions about her life.

 

If reconciling with your wife is what you want, the you need to be open and honest with her, and if she wants you to have zero contact with "Jane" ( aside of making child pick up/drop off arrangements for your daughter, etc.) then that is what you'll need to do.

 

It's not up to "Jane" to make that choice for your wife about whether or not she has to live with a cheating husband...

 

( this next part may sound cruel, but it's not meant to be...it is the reality)

 

If staying with your wife means ending things with "jane", then that that is what you'll have to do. Of course "jane" deserves a decent , respectful and kind end to her relationship with you, but she is "owed" nothing more than that. She knew you were married, she sat down to dinner with you and your wife while she was sleeping with you...she went into the relationship eyes wide open. This doesn't mean that she deserves cruel treatment, but rather that you will have to set and stick to some very firm boundaries with her, and she may not like it. In the end, it's very likely that it will be what's best for her. She'll be able to move on and see that there is a whole wide world out there full of men who will love only her and who will treat her well. Right now, she seems to have forgotten that.

 

I think that you need to ask yourself if you are really willing to give "jane" up, and be completely honest with yourself. If your answer is "no", then I would recommend that you do the compassionate thing and explain to your wife what has happened, that it's not her fault, and that you feel it's best if you separate and you both move on. If you love her, really love her, then you'll love her enough to set her free and not tie her to you and a marriage that is essentially a lie.

 

It's time to stop playing Peter Pan, to grow up and be the kind of man your little girl will be proud to call "daddy"

 

( sorry to keep calling your other woman"jane"...like I said before, I hate acronyms and she is , after all, a real person, and giving her a name makes her more 'real")

 

Thanks for your advice. It's highly appreciated.

[Brian1]

She may surprise you.

 

 

 

You say this as if the previous is a foregone conclusion - even though your wife doesn't know the truth about you! Like I said, she may surprise you. But more importantly, you must realize that this scenario you're trying 2 cook up is impossible. You can't "keep" both women. (I hate talking about them as if they're possessions, but you have been all along).

 

 

 

She's still very young and likely doesn't really know what she wants long term. And when the truth comes out and it's impossible 2 maintain the status quo, she might also be surprised 2 find how liberating living a truthful life can be.

 

 

 

It's not really your permission 2 give, you know. So think about it. Your primary hold over her is finances. When the lying ends, can you really anticipate the choices that others might then see that they have ahead of them? Choices that might not include you?

 

 

 

And don't forget, these are people 2. They get 2 set their own priorities, and I doubt they'll resemble your list, especially long term.

 

 

 

Still nothing but a cheap, sordid affair. On the other hand, If your wife agrees with your assessment of the affair, how long do you think she'll want 2 be #2 on your list, knowing that there's a #1 and a #3?

 

 

 

For the short term, it will seem that way, I'm certain (having lived through a d-day 11 years ago myself). But in the long term, everybody involved will be better off than they are now. By light-years.

 

-ol' 2long

 

I appreciate your insights and I agree 100% with your last statement.

[Brian1]

Here's my prediction:

 

Given: Your daughter is your #1, your wife #2, and your GF #3.

 

Prediction, when the truth comes out:

 

Your perspective: Your daughter is your #1, your wife #2, and your GF #3.

 

Your wife's perspective: Your wife is #1, you may be #2 for a while yet, but probably not more than a few months, and your daughter is someone else's cute kid, and your GF doesn't rank on the list, except as a homewrecker.

 

Your GF's perspective: Her daughter is #1, she is #2, and you maybe be #3 for a while yet, but probably not more than a few months before you get relegated 2 the xMM who ruined her life.

 

Harsh? Yeah. Your GF may not react so negatively 2ward you, especially since she's been a party 2 the Big Lie all this time herself. But she is young and has her whole life ahead of her. She can still have a family if she wants 2, with someone her age. I would think that, long term, she'd rather grow old with someone than find herself still fairly young and taking care of an old man.

 

-ol' 2long

 

You could be right. Or you could be completely wrong. It's indeterminable.

[Brian1]

It seems like you keep trying to demonize your OW (maybe to make it easier to end it?). This is second time you've written that she insisted there's no one else, but you still don't believe her. She's offered to come down the mountain, give the business to her sister, eagerly did the paternity test, happy to change the BC, and told you she'd love marry you & live happily ever after. She's refuted your concerns both verbally & with her actions so far. But you still seem suspicious of her.

 

If I were her, I would think all these recent talks, paternity, etc, were signs that you were finally coming around to leave your wife and complete our little family.

 

I think you should call her bluff and hire the PI. I'm pretty sure you still think something is going on up there?

 

I do still think something is going on up there. But if she's willing to come down and be close to me permanently, that sounds hard to believe she has someone up there, no? You think so (about her thoughts about the family)? I'm heavily leaning in the direction you describe. Demonizing her to make it easier to end it? That sounds like where my mind keeps leaning.

[Brian1]

I registered just to comment on this thread. Were you and your wife still trying to conceive when you started things with your OW? Maybe you mentioned somewhere, but when and why did you decide not to adopt children with your wife?

 

When my affair started, my wife and I had 9 years of unsuccessful fertility treatments, including 3 in-vitros. We decided after the third in-vitro that 3 would be enough because each process includes massive medication and hormones. That could be highly detrimental to her future health. We discussed many times about adoption but we really believed she would eventually become pregnant. But once she hit 40 years old (2 years ago) we started to come to the realization that we would never have children together. We again discussed adoption but decided not to because it's a major project to raise children for a couple in their 40's. But not impossible. Also, almost everyone we know who have children are completely worn out, physically, emotionally and financially with the process and are looking forward to sending their children to the university life. Not all but most.

[BrokenPrincess]

I do still think something is going on up there. But if she's willing to come down and be close to me permanently, that sounds hard to believe she has someone up there, no? You think so (about her thoughts about the family)? I'm heavily leaning in the direction you describe. Demonizing her to make it easier to end it? That sounds like where my mind keeps leaning.

 

Absolutely. It struck me when she brought up having another baby together. After 3 years, it seems (to her) that you are taking the steps to come out as the father. Couple that with your constant questioning to make sure there's no one else and asking her if she would like to marry you if you got D, it could very easily give her the impression that you're stepping it up. Plus, she obviously doesn't pressure you to leave your W, so I'm sure she is trying not to get her hopes up and actually ask you where this is all coming from.

 

Yes, you've said many pleasant, angelic things about your W, but not so much about OW, except when pushed. My impression is that you truly want to be with your wife. In which case, I would just tell her before OW or her family beat you to it.

[Brian1]

I am aware of the IVF process, a close family member went through it (successfully the 2nd time). I have also experienced infertility (I did end up successfully pregnant with relatively little intervention) and spent much time on infertility support groups. With that said, I have no idea how your wife could ever forgive you for having unprotected sex and impregnating OW, especially during the time period she was going through extreme stress and hoping each month is "the one". I can't even put into words how devastating this situation is.

This is the type of situation that would make a woman suicidal, possibly homicidal. I don't have past posts, so please take my word for it, I am not exaggerating. These are very important before/when you tell your wife:

1) remove all firearms, weapons, meds she could overdose on, etc. from your home (or wherever she will be staying)

2) make sure family and friends are around to support her

3) make OW aware when she will be told. That might be a good time for OW to take daughter up to the mountain

4) have a place for YOU to go, probably best to stay away even if she initally seems to take it well. I definitely wouldn't sleep in the same house with her.

5)have a therapist available. She will probably need someone with the ability to prescribe ADs.

 

I believe my wife already has a good idea that I had an affair with my OW and I fathered the child. But she doesn't have any idea that my affair is still ongoing.

 

You have brought up some excellent points in your comment. I have yet to here that perspective about my coming clean. I will definitely take those points into consideration.

[2sunny]

Did you hire a PI to check on her? You never answered if you did that...

[Brian1]

Absolutely. It struck me when she brought up having another baby together. After 3 years, it seems (to her) that you are taking the steps to come out as the father. Couple that with your constant questioning to make sure there's no one else and asking her if she would like to marry you if you got D, it could very easily give her the impression that you're stepping it up. Plus, she obviously doesn't pressure you to leave your W, so I'm sure she is trying not to get her hopes up and actually ask you where this is all coming from.

 

Yes, you've said many pleasant, angelic things about your W, but not so much about OW, except when pushed. My impression is that you truly want to be with your wife. In which case, I would just tell her before OW or her family beat you to it.

 

You are reading the situation exactly as I see it.

[anne1707]

I have no time at all for the OP - he is far too wrapped up in his own selfish world. My concerns are for his wife and daugher who are both innocent in all this mess.

 

I have to say Molly that whilst I know you mean well, I find some of your suggestions unpleasant or possibly not the right thing to do

 

1) remove all firearms, weapons, meds she could overdose on, etc. from your home (or wherever she will be staying)

 

Whilst the wife will quite righly be angry and devastated, to imply that she might harm herself or others is I think unfair. It suggest either a wrecklessness, weakness or a fragility that we cannot possibly know about.

 

2) make sure family and friends are around to support her

 

But she may prefer NOT to have her family involved. Plus how does he do this - tell them first? Bad. Have them in the room next door whilst he tells her? Bad.

 

3) make OW aware when she will be told. That might be a good time for OW to take daughter up to the mountain

 

Why? In case the wife goes after the daughter?

 

Also why put the OW before the wife which is what this would be doing

 

4) have a place for YOU to go, probably best to stay away even if she initally seems to take it well. I definitely wouldn't sleep in the same house with her.

 

So he tells her and then runs. Cowardly. And hardly sending the message that he wants to be with her. She will just think he is with the OW anyway

 

5)have a therapist available. She will probably need someone with the ability to prescribe ADs.

 

How insulting would this be! To have a therapist lined up for her. If she needs/wants a therapist, it should be one of her choosing, not his. He has made enough choices for her without her knowledge already.

[Brian1]

Did you hire a PI to check on her? You never answered if you did that...

 

No I haven't. She was the one who mentioned it when I was questioning her about a boyfriend. She said she has never in 5 years even considered having a boyfriend and if I want to send someone to check up on her, I'm more than welcome. But she still gets very angry and defensive when I bring up the boyfriend issue.

[Brian1]

Anne, I agree about my suggestions being unpleasant and possibly the wrong thing to do. I am just sick about this situation and it is so personal to me considering the infertility angle. Personally, I would stab him in his sleep.

 

That would be justifiable, but not very friendly.

[anne1707]

Anne, I agree about my suggestions being unpleasant and possibly the wrong thing to do. I am just sick about this situation and it is so personal to me considering the infertility angle. Personally, I would stab him in his sleep.

 

I understand Molly ((hugs))

[Brian1]

So you skipped a generation and had your own grandaughter instead?

 

What do you think your wife is going 2 think/do/say when she learns what you've done after all the effort you went through 2 have a child of your own?

 

Don't give up on adoption (speaking generally about people in their 40s and 50s, not you. YOU should give up until you get your head on straight). I have a friend who tried the invitro thing for several years. They ended up adopting a baby from China, when my friend had just turned 50. She's 6 now, and the cutest, smartest little thing on the planet's surface.

 

-ol' 2long

 

2long, I don't care what anyone says about you, I believe you are a good person with lots of wisdom. (As are many other posters on here)

[Brian1]

Nah, I'm just old! (60 next month)

 

-ol' 2long

 

Happy Birthday 2 you.

[2sunny]

I think even IF your W decides to stay married to you - the extent of her anger could and should potentially be long lasting.

 

I hope if you stay married - you understand you deserve ALL the anger and crap she's likely to unload onto you! Are you prepared to take her crap that YOU created? Full circle baby!

 

I hope you're growing a thick skin while you're weaving this intricate web of destruction.

[Brian1]

I actually think that makes it worse. It sounds like she was willing and wanting to raise this child. (Your wife must be an absolute saint) You deprived your wife of the daughters first 3 years-the baby coos, learning to walk and talk, etc. Your wife won't have those experiences. She won't be Mommy #2 that's been around since birth and had that bonding. Why won't she? Because you wanted to keep sticking it to your daughter's teen mama. Please follow my advise. At first she may take it well, but this stuff is going to sink in.

 

Just a quick clarification. My wife was around my daughter quite a bit the first year and a half of her life. And another point, I never gave one cent to my girlfriend the first year of our relationship apart from her salary for her work. I started giving her money once my daughter was born. And at the three year mark of our relationship, she left her job (mainly because my wife was getting a little suspicious and jealous) and I began to support her fully along with my support of our daughter.

[Brian1]

I also agree with Anne - molly is making it out that the wife will go mental....yet Brian has repeatedly stated that the OW will go ballistic....

 

I predict the mistress will move to the mountains with the daughter - ensuring the MM doesn't see her. She will also tell the wife BEFORE Brian tells her...because she is PISSED that he has led her on and lied to her for 5+ years. He has been hounding her about a boyfriend all the while staying married and having sex with both women. The mistress KNOWS this ...knows he is having sex with the wife. She will figure out that Brian has been manipulating her for the last few months - with the DNA test and the BC change..and she WILL GO BALLISTIC....and do whatever she can to ruin him...including going public and possibly suing him in court and getting rewarded monetarily because they have played house for years.

 

But Brian will pay her off...because his answer is to throw money at problems if he can't manipulate, cajole or sneak around. How sad. How sad for the little girl who is going to be in the middle of the entire mess that her parents have created and whose father is still playing games with demanding mommy come off the mountain and live near him. Just yucky all around.

 

No, my big problem right now is that I'm only about 80% sure that I want to be with my wife long term. The 20% of me that wants to be with my girlfriend is what keeps me up all night.

[spice4life]

This thread has become excruciating painful to read yet I can't help it because it keeps popping up to the top. There's some real soul destroying stuff going on in this story and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. You are slipping into the abyss.

 

You are driving yourself crazy with the waffeling, jealousy, accusations of cheating and the list goes on. The thing is, Brian, the choice is not yours to make while you keep this secret. You have a child for goodnes sakes and that is not a situation that can be manipulated if you truly have the child's best interest at heart. You may even find, once the truth comes out, that you will be free of pressure of this secret and you will feel and see things quite differently. Then how you really feel will surface and it will be much easier to make a decision. Well, minus the fact that decisions may be made for you.

[spice4life]

I would like to add that all of the jealousy, accusations of cheating etc are because you are keeping everything secret. There is no way in h*ll you can feel completely secure in this situation. The only way to change that is to change the situation by coming clean. It's amazing how much that changes things. Yes, there will be A LOT of pain, but at least the healing can finally begin.

Edited February 22, 2013 by spice4life

[SunshineToday]

I'm sure Molly was referring to the BW having serious problems with this because of her own infertility issues. I don't think it was a put down of the BW in any way.

 

And I think Molly is right, I could see danger brought upon these people (from both woman and maybe a protective male family member as well) once this secret is put to light. It's so sick. I'm still hopeful it's a ruse.

[2sunny]

I'm hopeful his W is strong enough to realize what a lie the M has been - and wants/deserves better than what the OP has delivered to her/the M.

[dreamingoftigers]

"Feelings."

 

I have always wondered about how people in general can look at this and excuse themselves.

 

I have a three year old daughter. She has lots of feelings. Sone of then are so strong that they overwhelm her. Children are remarkably sensitive. However, no matter how angry she gets, sad or upset, there is a time to get up, get dressed and do the things necessary to function in a day.

 

Even my three year old gets that no matter how much we don't want to put our boots on before we go outside. No matter how mad that makes us, we don't go outside in the winter without our boots on.

 

I've had attractions. I've had utter marital devastation where it's hanging by a thread. I've had opportunities.

 

I also had: the knowledge that in the long-term having an affair opens a dark, selfish, divided door that only leads to consequences I hand my power over to. Giving your heart over to someone and sharing a life with them can be tough, damn tough sometimes. But refusing to face head-on your own internal feelings and say, "you know what, I'm not going there because I don't want the pain for myself or my wife" is what your responsibility is as a husband and ADULT.

 

Now that you've eaten the cake and feel bad for yourself losing one relationship (at least) that you had no business dabbling in, your responsibility to your daughter is paramount.

 

That means swallowing the bullet, and stop looking at your life as though your are "losing" something deeply regrettable. Look at is as "I am taking the reigns in my own life to be THAT MAN for my CHILD."

 

Everything else collapses like a house of cards when you see you child as I infinitely more important than either woman or you ridiculous, selfish, self-pitying, life-squandering dream of having two romantic life partners.

 

Your time to be the "star of the show" ended when you became an adult. Whatever extra attentions, dopamine-fueled excitement and reactivity that caused this nightmare should have been out to pasture long before you married.

 

Your daughter is supposed to be the start of your show now. You are so sadly focused on filling your own external validation, that you are ignoring her BASIC NEEDS. (and I am not talking financial here, chump).

 

Small children mirror and learn their identities and self-worth from their parents. Father is not a self-seeking part-time job.

 

Being a father to a little girl and showing her the place of rennin her life starts on Day One. You are so far behind with your boundaries, emotional connectivity and priorities, that I hope you get your ass in gear for her sake and seriously stop lamenting your loss of your mini-harem in favor of becoming absolutely committed to building your daughters self-worth and values by EXAMPLE moreso than concession speeches about the topic.

 

 

 

 

Everyone is human. If someone falls in love, even for all the wrong reasons, they still have feelings for that person. The longer the time together the deeper the feelings. And to me, to just remove someone from your life because the initiation of the love bond was not correct, is wrong. The whole point is, once the affair is initiated, now what. Of course it's wrong, but why. Not because the two AP's love each other. It's because the two AP's aren't taking into consideration the emotions and life of the BS as they go about their happy, exciting relationship. Not all MM/MW or OW/OM get into an affair for the same reasons. But most are commenced by people that have deep psychological issues. But then again, who doesn't have deep psychological issues? Clearly, not getting into an illicit loving relationship is highly preferred. Everyone makes mistakes of one form or another. That's what life is all about. Make mistakes...learn from them...grow. How they clean them up or correct them is the part that builds character and fortitude.

[Brian1]

"Feelings."

 

I have always wondered about how people in general can look at this and excuse themselves.

 

I have a three year old daughter. She has lots of feelings. Sone of then are so strong that they overwhelm her. Children are remarkably sensitive. However, no matter how angry she gets, sad or upset, there is a time to get up, get dressed and do the things necessary to function in a day.

 

Even my three year old gets that no matter how much we don't want to put our boots on before we go outside. No matter how mad that makes us, we don't go outside in the winter without our boots on.

 

I've had attractions. I've had utter marital devastation where it's hanging by a thread. I've had opportunities.

 

I also had: the knowledge that in the long-term having an affair opens a dark, selfish, divided door that only leads to consequences I hand my power over to. Giving your heart over to someone and sharing a life with them can be tough, damn tough sometimes. But refusing to face head-on your own internal feelings and say, "you know what, I'm not going there because I don't want the pain for myself or my wife" is what your responsibility is as a husband and ADULT.

 

Now that you've eaten the cake and feel bad for yourself losing one relationship (at least) that you had no business dabbling in, your responsibility to your daughter is paramount.

 

That means swallowing the bullet, and stop looking at your life as though your are "losing" something deeply regrettable. Look at is as "I am taking the reigns in my own life to be THAT MAN for my CHILD."

 

Everything else collapses like a house of cards when you see you child as I infinitely more important than either woman or you ridiculous, selfish, self-pitying, life-squandering dream of having two romantic life partners.

 

Your time to be the "star of the show" ended when you became an adult. Whatever extra attentions, dopamine-fueled excitement and reactivity that caused this nightmare should have been out to pasture long before you married.

 

Your daughter is supposed to be the start of your show now. You are so sadly focused on filling your own external validation, that you are ignoring her BASIC NEEDS. (and I am not talking financial here, chump).

 

Small children mirror and learn their identities and self-worth from their parents. Father is not a self-seeking part-time job.

 

Being a father to a little girl and showing her the place of rennin her life starts on Day One. You are so far behind with your boundaries, emotional connectivity and priorities, that I hope you get your ass in gear for her sake and seriously stop lamenting your loss of your mini-harem in favor of becoming absolutely committed to building your daughters self-worth and values by EXAMPLE moreso than concession speeches about the topic.

 

I know that letting go of my girlfriend and coming clean with my wife is the correct thing to do. But it's extremely difficult to tell my girlfriend that I think we should end our relationship, for me and for her. Every time I've brought it up in the past, she didn't take it very well. I also will be very, very sad to part with her but our relationship is mainly motivated by the sex and that can be overcome with time. We've also had a lot of good experiences and memories over the 5 years. It's almost like realizing you have to stab your mother in the heart to save her from her suffering from an illness.

 

I think this coming week I'm going to brush over the topic of splitting up a little and see how she responds. Then I'm going to continue bringing it up every 3 or 4 days. Perhaps, some day she just might have enough of my comments and out of frustration and anger just tell me, "Ok, let's end it."

I'm going to test it out next week and see how it goes.

[eleanorrigby]

Perhaps, some day she just might have enough of my comments and out of frustration and anger just tell me, "Ok, let's end it."

I'm going to test it out next week and see how it goes.

 

Seriously?