Does "name it and claim it" philosophy lead to abusiveness?

[M30USA]

I have a theory formulating which may prove to be flat wrong but at this point I think it holds some water.

 

Those people who embrace the "name it and claim it" philosophy of many modern preachers might have a higher tendency to abuse others. (There are numerous other names by which this philosophy goes, such as "law of attraction".) So why do I believe it can lead to abuse? Because it basically teaches that we are, more or less, the center of the world and everything/everyone else revolves around us. This makes us view people as a means to an end rather than people who have their own feelings and goals. Additionally--and this is the main reason--having this philosophy makes us do whatever it takes to achieve our goals. This includes even betraying people, lying, taking what is not rightfully ours, etc. And the worst part is that abusers who think in this fashion don't even know what they're doing! They merely see the prize (ie, the goal) and don't stop to consider how they are affecting others or whether or not their means of achieving this goal is moral. Even CHRISTIANS do this! I have seen it firsthand. They will literally harm another person and take what is theirs, all the while saying, "Look what God has blessed me with! He is so good!" And they will go on and on about "Gods favor".

 

I'm looking for a critique (positive or negative) on my theory. Any comments?

[pureinheart]

I used to hear this term used back when I was a baby Christian. To take from another in the name of God is covetousness, or even if it's not in the name of God.

 

I think it depends on the heart of an individual. Personally have never seen a preacher preach to "claim" what belongs to another. Mainly the teaching I've heard is we can claim Gods forgiveness and things of that nature.

 

I have heard teaching that I don't agree with, like to claim healing (physical) and that the person that didn't receive the healing (mainly physical) simply didnot have enough faith...so in this sense it would be emotional abuse.

 

I can claim anything until I'm blue in the face, for myself or another, although if it is not Gods will it's fruitless. I can claim Gods healing power over my life in the sense of unforgiveness, but I have to believe that He has the power to change me, and then let Him do it without fighting the heartache that sometimes comes with healing.

[M30USA]

I am reminded of a sermon by Dr. John MacArthur where he quoted Joel Osteen as saying, "I thank you, Father, that I have your favor." MacArthur commented, "Wow, did he meet the Pharisee in Luke 18 or what?" (This of course is where the Pharisee compared himself to the tax collector and believed he was favored and more righteous than the tax collector. Turns out the tax collector was miserable before God, daily prayed that God would have mercy on his sinfulness, and therefore was actually more justified before God than the Pharisee.)

 

I was amazed when I found out what "Pharisee" literally means: "loved of God". Isn't it ironic that a group who was repeatedly rebuked by Jesus for their hypocrisy and self-righteousness would refer to themselves as "loved of God"?

 

I find such similarities between the Pharisees and the modern church: self-righteousness, love of money, pride, and believing they are "favored".

 

Joel Osteen has said, "You were born to win!" He even gives an example of how he believes God shows "favor" in smaller ways: by giving him a good parking spot at the mall. Dr. MacArthur commented, "What about the little old lady you cut off to get into the parking spot? Was she born to lose?"

[M30USA]

As you know, I don't believe in any of the god claims, so all of this is just granting the premise if god were real... (for me, anyway).

 

I always find it amusing/confusing when people claim to speak for "god," like they have a direct line to his will. I find the example you used where the guy gets the parking space is apt, because it means someone else lost out. Is god favouring his children? When sportsmen pray to win their match/race/whatever, they're asking god to pick their side, and decide the other side is unworthy of winning. What if the opponent prays with as much faith?

 

It's all very baffling to me.

 

I personally am turned off when sportsmen pray for victory and point to the sky, etc. The very nature of sports is recreation and entertainment. Why treat it like the forces of good and evil are coming to a head? Truthfully, I view this as taking the Lord's name IN VAIN.

 

There is much, in my opinion, that doesn't deserve attention in prayer. God gives good things (food, jobs, happiness) to everyone, including those who follow him and those who don't. "God is not a respecter of persons." What should occupy most of our prayers are: thankfulness, repentance, and praying that God's will and the kingdom of Jesus Christ will be advanced on earth (and not by human hands but by God and his Spirit).

[pie2]

I don't think that the belief systems you're describing really creates abusive people. If the Law of Attraction says that people can do X, Y and Z to control their environment, I don't think that it's teaching anything different from how people naturally think. Many people in Western society think that they are in control of their environment, and the master of their own destiny.

 

So the belief system only reinforces our natural tendency, and therefore attracts people because it makes sense to their own realities. And because people can naturally be selfish, self-centered etc., I don't think anyone could claim that the belief is encouraging any negative trait that they didn't have when they started.

 

Of course I'm not saying that all members of this group are evil abusers! I just don't think that joining is the antecedent to being abusive.

 

I don't know if I'm making sense M30!

[M30USA]

Pie2,

 

I understand what you're saying, but think about exactly what the Law of Attraction really means: we have our own desire (typically sinful since we are fallen) and we harbor the desire until the "powers that be" gravitate the events into being. Have you ever considered that the "powers that be" in this case might be Satanic? Look up Luciferianism. It's different from what you might think. It says Lucifer is the real God of the world that that he exists as a state of mind whose function is synonomous with the Law of Attraction. This means that it's possible for people to pray to Satan when they say "God" or "Father". Did Jesus not tell people, "Your father is the devil"?

[pie2]

Pie2,

 

I understand what you're saying, but think about exactly what the Law of Attraction really means: we have our own desire (typically sinful since we are fallen) and we harbor the desire until the "powers that be" gravitate the events into being. Have you ever considered that the "powers that be" in this case might be Satanic? Look up Luciferianism. It's different from what you might think. It says Lucifer is the real God of the world that that he exists as a state of mind whose function is synonomous with the Law of Attraction. This means that it's possible for people to pray to Satan when they say "God" or "Father". Did Jesus not tell people, "Your father is the devil"?

 

I wasn't aware that the Law of Attraction had a spiritual element, and I'm still not sure how LoA connects to Luciferianism. But if you're referring to people who are dabbling in dark forces, yes, I could see how that could lead to something negative (like abuse).

[M30USA]

I wasn't aware that the Law of Attraction had a spiritual element, and I'm still not sure how LoA connects to Luciferianism. But if you're referring to people who are dabbling in dark forces, yes, I could see how that could lead to something negative (like abuse).

 

But what does "dabbling in dark forces" mean? Most people think it has to involve 3 little witches stirring their cauldron chanting "double double toil and trouble". But real witchcraft, and real dark forces, are not like that. They can actually be cleverly masked and taught within the Church, itself!

 

This is an excellent video delineating exactly what Luciferianism is. I know some people may get offended, but he shows the history of this cult and how it originated. The similarity to what you hear Joel Osteen (et al) preach is too exact to dismiss.