My girlfriend is lying about other men. What do I do?

[PoetSociety]

I entered a PhD program and began to date a very social, very independent, brilliant girl. I love this about her and its one of my biggest attractions to her. But my experience has also told me to be cautious. She is 24, I'm 32 -- There is a small gap in experience that can be difficult -- and a few months before dating me she ended a serious relationship of almost 3 years. Literally from the day she ended that relationship to the day she met me, she's been on a very free sexual exploration of the graduate community here. This alone made made me cautious, I questioned her emotional reliability at that time. This said we all need to have no strings attached sex sometimes, and I'm old enough to deal with that.

 

So, when she met me she curtailed the behavior, as she claimed, in fact she SOLD ME on why we should be together, and honestly she gave me no reason to doubt any of her affection for me. Things were great for several months.

 

HOWEVER:

 

She also now makes that affection, although platonic, clear to a large constituent of male friends (similar to my age - in their 30s or older). Although I know she has engaged romantically with a few of these men in the past (when they didn't want a relationship with her she became just

"friends") and she has been open about these things, introduced me to all of these people which i continue to connect with socially while in her company, and so for a while trust was not an issue.

 

But over time, certain inconsistencies started to emerge. First, when we were dating and not exclusive, I noticed that she would be murky about another man she had an "encounter" with when she was drunk. At the time it was hurtful to me because although we were not an "item" we were basically living together for weeks and our connection was quite intimate, so there was an implied fidelity by action. She became upset when I asked her for details. She promised it was a drunken thing and this person wasn't even on our campus and that we weren't exclusive. She claimed she had only "made out" with him. In fact, she told HIM she didn't want to pursue anything because she was seeing "ME."

 

Weeks later, after we became more serious, she eventually revealed she had actually introduced me to this person on the very same night we had that initial discussion about said "encounter." I was hurt and perturbed that she lied to me, especially in that manner, but let it go because I'm old enough to realize stuff is complicated and our connection was still "dating" and she didn't want to mess it up and it wasn't my business anyway.

 

Over the course of the semester we became closer and closer, and as that happened I started to become insecure about her relationships with all these guys - I found her behavior flirtatious now that we were more serious, and whereas she curtailed things that were really 'obvious' she did maintain enough of her past behavior to the point where I told her "I really like you but don't think you are ready to be in a serious relationship with someone now."

 

She was upset about that and again expressed her affection for me and I said "Ok, I believe you, let's see how things develop over the next few weeks." At that time the semester ended and we went our separate ways for a month. She stayed on campus for a while then visited her folks in San Diego, meanwhile I went home to Chicago.

 

Over that period we engaged in extremely intimate exchanges over the phone, facebook, text, etc. But I still found myself concerned that she was always out going out and getting wasted with her group of guy friends, including those she had previously dated. She posted pictures that were platonic but slightly suggestive -- this sucked but either way I decided my concerns were my problem not hers. I had been insecure and cautious. It became obvious to me I wanted something exclusive. And so in late December we had the classic "Talk." This is something she had been pushing for all along.

 

During that "Talk" I asked that she be transparent and straightforward with me (as I would be with her) and I revealed to her that I had been really hurt by past relationships that fell apart due to the concerns I had about the timing of OUR relationship. She told me that aside from that one "encounter" and the earlier sexual connections before she met me, that she has been nothing but devoted and affectionate and that I should trust her fully. She made it so very clear to me that NOTHING happened while we were on this break. And so we entered an 'official' relationship.

 

We had a wonderful few weeks, but I had a gut feeling something was still not right and recently brought her guy friends up again. She became defensive and eventually told me that a relationship to her doesn't mean she should alter her relationships with her guy friends, even those with a 'history.' I tried to show her why I felt her behavior was flirtatious or suggestive and not cool and we pulled up a few of her text messages to those guys and I noted that multiple exclamation points, smiley faces, and suggestive language over and over again at all hours of the night could give someone the wrong impression.

 

During this discussion she revealed several things that were big red flags outside of that initial murky "encounter" in question. One, she had an intimate affair right before she met me with a guy who, himself, was in a serious relationship - to which she claimed she spent the night with him naked, but "nothing happened bc he couldn't perform," and two, she engaged with a few other guys she hadn't told me about, also right before we connected. Also, that over a few days during our break when she visited her family in San Diego she connected with a former fling from a few months earlier -- although "nothing happened." I'll be honest the whole discussion made me ill.

 

So last night I decided to prove to myself that it was my own insecurities making me nuts about all of this. I looked at her phone to re-analyze the text messages she allowed me to read. I did not have her permission to look at them again, and I felt terrible about it. But she had quickly skimmed over a few and was concerned about me reading them. I just felt there were too many inconsistencies here, too early into this, and that if it was all in my head I needed to simply reinforce that this was my imagination and let it all go before it ruined our relationship.

 

I discovered this: The night before we had "the talk" where we solidified our relationship and were deeply transparent, I saw in a message to a former boyfriend that she had connected, or, "made out" with a guy at a club.

 

I don't know what it means. I'm not even jealous nor care, but for me the lie is the significant thing. I based entering a relationship on some understand of a previous implied fidelity, and if not that, at least the courtesy to give me the full truth before both of us invested in this manner. Morever, as to that initial "encounter" (the guy she lied to me about when in fact she had actually introduced us...ughh) I found out she "Went home with that guy" not simply 'made out at a party' as she had described, and her description of that to her ex was "well, it was stupid but, ya know, WHATEVER.'

 

So what the heck do I do here. I feel like there is another side to this girl that I love very much and I know she loves me. But love is about transparency. Obviously there is a real trust issue, and although I feel like **** and wish I didn't look at her phone, I also feel like it is very good I know these things.

 

Should I bring it up? Should I just let it go and mentally scale things back and start reaching out to other women? She is lovely to me, but she has not been honest with me.

 

Please help.

[loversquarrel]

She is playing games, being immature and disrespectful. I would label her as "fun girl" and keep it at that. She is not ready for a real adult relationship, so I wouldn't invest any more emotion than you already have. If you are seeking something more serious, it's not going to be from this girl. Lastly, trust your gut.

[MichiganMan222]

If I'm understanding correctly, she had a 3 year faithful relationship, followed by a few months of sexual exploration, followed by you two 'dating' and eventually becoming an exclusive couple. Is that all correct?

 

Your first concern seems to be that her exploration period and you're dating may have overlapped despite a feeling of implied fidelity. OK, first, I don't believe in implied fidelity. I think that is something that needs to be overtly and mutually expressed and agreed upon. Otherwise, all bets are off. If this happened to me, I would have to forgive her for this, especially if she claimed to have a differing opinion that you to were exclusive. This is certainly understandable in absence of a discussion. If she really though you were exclusive and lied about that, well that's a different story and deal-breaker.

 

As for male friends, I see no problem in this, EXCEPT....and this is a HUUUGE 'EXCEPT'...any males she's had a sexual past with. Her 'hanging out' with men she's slept with would be a deal-breaker for me. Especially in light of this....She promised it was a drunken thing (unless she doesn't drink any more).

 

Past lays + a propensity to lose control when drunk = cheating scenario

 

As for her being murky in her tales, I would give that a pass, too, since you weren't exclusive at the time of the event. I really can't blame her for wanted to be wishy-washy about that to someone she wants a LTR with.

 

So if this were me, I would overlook everything, but tell her that if she insists on continued correspondence with past sex interests, then an exclusive relationship is out of the question at this point and time. If she chooses that over a relationship, then I would probably cut ALL ties at that point.

 

If she chooses to favor the relationship, then assuming she was faithful in her past three year relationship, I see no reason to believe she wouldn't be faithful with you in your relationship.

 

In fairness to her, she's doing it right. Relationship - sexual exploration - relationship. She doesn't appear to be overlapping the two with the exception of your 'dating' period which I explained earlier probably should've been discussed rather than assumed.

[Balzac]

You're a smart guy~actually NO she does not have to be honest with you. How many times are you willing to compromise your personal ethics to get laid by a girl who cannot embrace the concept of exclusivity?

[NervisPervis]

You dump her.

 

OK. Now I'll go back and read your post.

[NervisPervis]

You dump her.

[veggirl]

LOL "sexual exploration of the graduate community". What a nice way to spin that!

 

How can you be with someone you can't trust? She has proven, many times over, that she is not trustworthy. Are you willing to spend the rest of your relationship 2nd guessing her words and wondering if she is being honest? What a pain. She clearly LOVES attention from men, so let her have all the attention she wants--single.

[Almond_Joy]

Your instincts were right, and you should follow them.

 

As much as she likes you, she is not ready for a serious relationship right now. I also think she is not fully recovered from the previous breakup, and she's trying desperately to avoid dealing with it by sleeping around and perpetuating this commitment to you.

 

I think if you stick around you will be exposed to a lot more heartache, a lot more uncertainty, and possibly be the victim of her infidelity at one point. Even if she wants a serious LTR, she is NOT ready. She needs to accept that and so do you.

 

Good luck.

[MichiganMan222]

Am I missing something? When she was 'exploring', was she not single and unattached? Is that inaccurate? Why is this a problem with everyone?

[Quiet Storm]

You have caught her in lies and there are shady things happening.

 

Introducing you to that guy without telling you the details was wrong, and I think it shows a lack of respect for you.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

 

She is showing you who she is. You don't like it.

 

Trying to make her change will likely just result in her being more secretive about her behavior. You are already looking in her phone because your gut is screaming at you. Listen to it!

 

It's best to just move on and find a girl more compatible.

[loversquarrel]

Am I missing something? When she was 'exploring', was she not single and unattached? Is that inaccurate? Why is this a problem with everyone?

 

 

IMO, you're right. There isn't a problem with the exploring, she was single. I could be wrong but it seems the poster is concerned with the "trickle" truthing while they were dating. There is a perception that as the relationship was progressing naturally in his eyes, he was being lied to when there really wasn't a need for it, especially where it occurred more than once. It appears she is projecting an image that doesn't match the reality. I wouldn't blame him for being guarded with this situation.

[todreaminblue]

Honestly poetsociety doesn't sound good, when she agreed to go exclusive th eless contact she has with past flames the better,there's a difference between genuine friendliness and hanging out with guys you have slept with, she isnt willign to compromise and you have been fair to her, if she has problems with alcohol and while she is drunk with choices she makes then getting wasted should be out, it is possible to be friends with exes, but going out with them isnt a good idea neither is drinking with them , suggestive talk flirting,etc.....and the fact is these were casual sex partners......there are meant to be no strings......so buddy buddy with a casual sex partner shouldnt be in the picture....she honestly should forget the casual sex partner if she was truly serious about you..you should be able to read every message and be able to ask questions..thats my opinion....ask her how she would feel if you had mulitple messgaes she wasnt allowed to read from other women or another woman...best wishes....with a very sticky situation..defensiveness belies guilt not honesty..deb

[Cutiepie1976]

Only part of your concern is valid, if I read the OP correctly.

 

You were well aware she was avidly exploring the campus community when single. That you are just learning about her detailed mappings of a particular rock that you thought she might have missed during such exploration is a non-issue. She was single. She was openly promiscuous then. You knew it. The whole male campus knew it. You sought a relationship anyway, and ultimately asked her to be exclusive. When you asked for exclusivity isn't entirely clear in your posts, but it seems flirting with exes continued afterwards?

 

Continuing to flirt openly with ex-flings behind your back after you both committed to be exclusive is an issue, for many reasons. We all draw our boundaries differently. You have to decide what is acceptable to you. For me personally, flirting and sexting exes behind my back would be a deal breaker and the end of the relationship. You have to decide for you and then stick to it.

[Cutiepie1976]

...you should be able to read every message and be able to ask questions..thats my opinion....ask her how she would feel if you had mulitple messgaes she wasnt allowed to read from other women or another woman...best wishes....with a very sticky situation..defensiveness belies guilt not honesty..deb

 

I understand why you say this, however, I would have a major issue with a boyfriend demanding to read my messages. To be clear, I have never cheated on anyone! It's an invasion of my privacy, and a mockery of what others sent me in confidence. Period.

 

Nor would I ever go through a boyfriend's phone. Quite frankly, if I felt compelled to do that, the relationship is long over for all intents and purposes, and I am just unwilling to accept it. Obviously, there's no trust, and without trust, there is no relationship...at least none worth wasting my time and heart on.

[Balzac]

Yeah operating as the email police is unsavory and ineffective. There are many ways to take communication underground. I concur that radical oversight n constraints are efforts in futility.

[todreaminblue]

I understand why you say this, however, I would have a major issue with a boyfriend demanding to read my messages. To be clear, I have never cheated on anyone! It's an invasion of my privacy, and a mockery of what others sent me in confidence. Period.

 

Nor would I ever go through a boyfriend's phone. Quite frankly, if I felt compelled to do that, the relationship is long over for all intents and purposes, and I am just unwilling to accept it. Obviously, there's no trust, and without trust, there is no relationship...at least none worth wasting my time and heart on.

 

 

Trust isnt an automatic thing,when you feel insecure about a woman who is messaging guys i think trust would be the first thing to go, i dont have a problem in a relationship in letting a guy see messages i receive, because i would have nothing to be private about other than his texts.....i wouldnt be texting other guys in the first place and being suggestive or setting up meetings, if a guy is legitimately insecure about messages i were receiving i would go here you are dotn feel insecure, its ok....read them.....i would only have to do this maybe once for him to see i was legit adn he would feel secure ......my relationships have all been like this, i dont go through boyfriends phones unless they are being aggressive and defensive, and yes i found a number of an affair this way........i know some people feel invaded by doing this, i dont, i would if a stranger viewed my phone, i dont have a problem with my kids accessing my facebook, nor would i have a problem with a guy i was in a relationship having the password,if i have private thoughts i dont write them on facebook........i think openness is important, helps growth, but i do understand a guy wanting to keep his phone private thats fine, but if i was insecure i would ask directly anyway.....if they get aggressive there is an issue.....i dont think its a mockery, if my friends have sensitive issues to discuss they call me voice style not by text and to tell the truth most come and see me in person...........deb

Edited February 2, 2013 by todreaminblue

[bob the brave]

Love sucks dun it?

 

I can speak from experience on this.

 

First, I believe women are more hardwired to act instinctively when it comes to mate selection. That is, their hearts and minds can easily be conned into taking the back seat. This can make them prone to being fickle and flighty, flirting and kissing or more only to regret it later. Men do this too but I think women, on average, are far more vulnerable. I have seen women do this and then be highly confused and conflicted by their own actions. They are as much victims sometimes as the ones they hurt.

 

She seems like a fun girl who likes having a good time with guys. Most girls like this enjoy the attention, some like the sex. Don't take this wrong, but you may have a whore for a girl friend. That doesn't mean she dosen't love you and you only, but it does mean she likes having 'fun' with guys. That is why she lies, because she likes having fun, but doesn't want to lose you either. Bottom line (and you know the answer) is that she is not yet mature enough for a serious relationship. That is, one that requires sacrifice and dedication.

 

So you now have a tough choice and some sole searching to do. How much do you really love this girl? If you really love her and she you, then be patient, express your discontent in a confident, non-threatening, constructive manner. Work together to find common ground and give her time and room to mature and find her place with you. I say this because no one is perfect and to let your pride or her immaturity stand in the way of lost love can be a high price to pay. One that may haunt you forever once she is gone.

 

Having said that, it is crucial that you NEVER EVER let her or anyone use or disrespect you. You must remain in control of your person and never sacrifice your own value or belief system for anyone. I say this not in reference to personal soverenignty, but for the simple fact that mutual respect is a mandetory element of any true relationship. It simply cannot exist without it.

 

Give it a bit more time. If she is clear on the subject and you find she again acts in any way she knows may hurt you soley for personal pleasure, thank her for the time together and catch the next bus. She will only bring you future pain, no matter how affectionate she seems or how many promises she makes.

 

If she gives up this promiscuous activity for you or you can tolerate it for her, you both will have matured in the sense that you have sacrificed part of yourselves for each other. That is love.

 

Good luck, mate!

[loversquarrel]

I understand why you say this, however, I would have a major issue with a boyfriend demanding to read my messages. To be clear, I have never cheated on anyone! It's an invasion of my privacy, and a mockery of what others sent me in confidence. Period.

 

Nor would I ever go through a boyfriend's phone. Quite frankly, if I felt compelled to do that, the relationship is long over for all intents and purposes, and I am just unwilling to accept it. Obviously, there's no trust, and without trust, there is no relationship...at least none worth wasting my time and heart on.

 

You have an extremely valid point. At the same time, things can happen when a partner may have done something questionable and acted suspiciously. There is nothing wrong with asking, often times the reaction says it all. When it comes to trust, I have always been one to prescribe to the theory that it is earned and not automatic.

[GSB81]

Bob the brave beat me to it. My friend, the problem is that she's deep down a whore. Ladies, I'd say the same thing about a man if the sexes were reversed. I feel your pain, I've dated my fair share of loveable whores. There's a side to them that you just love to pieces, but sadly, they share that same side with every other guy in town. She sees nothing wrong in hanging out with all the guys she's banged. She is unwilling to take your feelings into consideration, this is one of the biggest red flags known to man. Have no doubt about it, your relationship will soon end. She will claim you are too controlling and insecure and she will return to making her rounds within the graduate community.

[Darren Steez]

I always wanted to look through my ex's phone when I thought she was cheating..

 

it was then I should have known if I was feeling that way, it was already over.

[road]

Am I missing something? When she was 'exploring', was she not single and unattached? Is that inaccurate? Why is this a problem with everyone?

 

 

In the beginning she was staying at his house while still exploring.

[MichiganMan222]

Bob the brave beat me to it. My friend, the problem is that she's deep down a whore. Ladies, I'd say the same thing about a man if the sexes were reversed. I feel your pain, I've dated my fair share of loveable whores. There's a side to them that you just love to pieces, but sadly, they share that same side with every other guy in town. She sees nothing wrong in hanging out with all the guys she's banged. She is unwilling to take your feelings into consideration, this is one of the biggest red flags known to man. Have no doubt about it, your relationship will soon end. She will claim you are too controlling and insecure and she will return to making her rounds within the graduate community.

 

How is this woman a whore? It's not uncommon for people of BOTH genders to exercise a period of 'fun and exploration' after a long-term relationship. I see no reason to believe this woman would likely cheat on him.

 

There is no mention of past cheating on the prior relationship.

There is no mention of her currently cheating or even being under the suspicion of cheating on the OP.

He's not saying 'I think she's cheating on me'; he's saying 'is she going to cheat on me?'.

 

Her 'crime' is not fully disclosing full details of PAST sexual relationships. I don't know about you guys, but I don't ever want to hear details of past sexual relationships from anyone I'm seeing. Yeah she lied. There's a difference between lying to avoid being hurtful (like flaunting past sex) and lying to hide some ACT that is sinister (like actual cheating). If the OP pressed for details, and she didn't feel comfortable disclosing this, it's understandable she was wishy-washy or murky, IMO. Now if she went out of her way to bring it up and then lied about it, well that's just weird.

 

But can someone show me a quote from the OP's post that proves a propensity or likelihood to cheat? All I see is her lying about past experiences which is not predicated on a warped morale compass, IMO.

[GSB81]

Well, MichiganMan, the OP tells us she screwed her way through the "graduate community," had an affair with a guy in a relationship, likes to go out drinking with guys who have already been in her panties, and like to "reconnect" with exes while the OP isn't around. He has shown discomfort about this but she seems unwilling to curb certain aspects of this behavior. There you have whore behavior, continued drunken contact with former sex partners, dishonesty, and lack of consideration for her current boyfriend's feelings. That's a bad combination.

Edited February 2, 2013 by GSB81

[MichiganMan222]

Well, MichiganMan, the OP tells us she screwed her way through the "graduate community," had an affair with a guy in a relationship, likes to go out drinking with guys who have already been in her panties, and like to "reconnect" with exes while the OP isn't around. He has shown discomfort about this but she seems unwilling to curb certain aspects of this behavior. There you have whore behavior, continued drunken contact with former sex partners, dishonesty, and lack of consideration for her current boyfriend's feelings. That's a bad combination.

 

As I pointed out in the first reply, the behavior I bolded would be unacceptable to me. I would not be with anyone that was unwilling to end this behavior AT ALL. Fortunately, I'm married to a woman who shares this belief that past lays are off limits to communication (exception being ex-husband with children, of course) I don't think her doing this makes her a 'whore', but she is certainly far from relationship material. Again, I said this from the beginning. If she is unwilling to stop, then I'd be unwilling to continue the relationship.

 

As for screwing her way through the graduate community, I believe the OP didn't really go into specifics on what degree this was. If she ****ed a different guy every night or multiple guys on a given night, then I'd certainly agree with you. If she dated a half dozen guys many times screwing half of them after a couple dates, then that doesn't sound like she has a mattress tied to her back. I am suspecting OP is embellishing her two-month world tour with contempt. The bottom line is you have an impression different than mine absent specifics from the OP. Now if OP comes back and says she did indeed have two-dozen one-night-stands, then I would wonder why he's even considering being with someone like that in the first place.

[loversquarrel]

How is this woman a whore? It's not uncommon for people of BOTH genders to exercise a period of 'fun and exploration' after a long-term relationship. I see no reason to believe this woman would likely cheat on him.

 

There is no mention of past cheating on the prior relationship.

There is no mention of her currently cheating or even being under the suspicion of cheating on the OP.

He's not saying 'I think she's cheating on me'; he's saying 'is she going to cheat on me?'.

 

Her 'crime' is not fully disclosing full details of PAST sexual relationships. I don't know about you guys, but I don't ever want to hear details of past sexual relationships from anyone I'm seeing. Yeah she lied. There's a difference between lying to avoid being hurtful (like flaunting past sex) and lying to hide some ACT that is sinister (like actual cheating). If the OP pressed for details, and she didn't feel comfortable disclosing this, it's understandable she was wishy-washy or murky, IMO. Now if she went out of her way to bring it up and then lied about it, well that's just weird.

 

But can someone show me a quote from the OP's post that proves a propensity or likelihood to cheat? All I see is her lying about past experiences which is not predicated on a warped morale compass, IMO.

 

If you go back to reading the post you will see that she admitted to cheating with a guy who was in a serious relationship. So yes, there is a propensity for her to cheat if she is willing to be the other woman.

 

While you are correct in that the poster isn't saying she has cheated, he is stating a number of things that make him feel uncomfortable. I don't blame him. In dating her he is getting to know her, the reason people date. He is discovering what she brings to the table and concerns he has as the relationship progresses. He wants to move forward and her behavior indicates otherwise. I haven't seen anyone here call her a cheater, but rather explaining that he is right to feel the way he does, because she is playing games.