No Contact question

[fooled2manyX]

Should "no contact" be established between the WS and OP at the end of an affair?

 

Oh, we have no contact, as he vanished completely. But, it was never established. Never said. I get that the silence is obvious, but..

 

I had an earlier post of regarding wanting something back from my xMM which belonged to my dad. So, I did what was suggested by a few people here. I had a male friend send him a text (actually he called as well, but didn't leave a voicemail) and ask for my sentimental item back. To simply please send it. Nothing. When over a week passed, I had a weak moment one day. I text myself, that he please send it. That I should have it back, as it was my dad's. Nothing.

 

I know the phone is on. He never blocked my number (even when I called quite a few times earlier in all of this.. i don't any longer.) And his number hasn't been changed.

 

I had to accept that he made his choice and is messed up for not telling me it was over, after he told me we had a future on the way. But now, it was simply "please return the item". And that too fell on deaf ears.

 

I read so much about how, usually at the BS's insistence, there is establishment of no contact. Thoughts?

[TaraMaiden]

Send him a text telling him that unless he returns the item immediately - you will turn up on his doorstep to collect it in person.

 

Some time.

 

Hell, what harm can it do?

[spice4life]

It could be that his wife is insisting and most likely is since there seemed to be a d-day. That's my best guess. I think that sending a message that they are reconciling and there will be NC is a better way to go because it completely closes the door. No one is left wondering if there is any hope. But everyone is different and she may have insisted it be this way. If it is reconciliation, transparency is a must, so he may have let her listen to the VM and showed her your text. If that's the case then letting go of any hope of getting the item back is the only thing you can do at this point. I know it's hard though.

Edited February 3, 2013 by spice4life

[TaraMaiden]

Frankly it's a two-part question.

On the one hand, whatever is happening in their home now, is beyond the OP's right to know. It is what it is, and every situation is different.

 

On the other hand, if this had been a normal relationship (ie, no espousal attachment) she would be within her rights to regain her property. We would all be giving her ways of doing so.

 

Therefore, this is no different.

If she wants her stuff back, she's perfectly entitled to get it back.

[woinlove]

Frankly it's a two-part question.

On the one hand, whatever is happening in their home now, is beyond the OP's right to know. It is what it is, and every situation is different.

 

On the other hand, if this had been a normal relationship (ie, no espousal attachment) she would be within her rights to regain her property. We would all be giving her ways of doing so.

 

Therefore, this is no different.

If she wants her stuff back, she's perfectly entitled to get it back.

 

I'm not sure the law is on her side. If you lend someone an item or leave it with them, where it is understood that you still retain ownership, then, I agree, you have rights to regain your property. But when you give someone a gift, even if you have owned it for a long time, it usually becomes the property of the recipient.

 

I do feel for you, OP, because this is something of such sentimental value to you. If you feel you and xMM had an agreement that you retained ownership of this item, then you could pursue legal means. Otherwise, you are at his mercy, I think. In that case, to show up at his door, could cause you even greater pain, depending on how they respond. I don't feel it is likely to yield the item, if he has not returned it by request already.

[whichwayisup]

I think you need to make peace with the fact that you probably won't get your gift back. Either it's gone, or he's keeping it (maybe it does mean something to him and even though he's gone silent on you forever) or he just doesn't care either way. Or maybe he'll send it and it'll show up in the mail or by registered mail (something you have to sign for) so he won't have to see/speak or deal with you or your friend.

 

Your male friend texted and called with no response. It's not like you can call the police about this. Only other option is, send your male friend to actually go see/speak to him directly.

 

There isn't much more you can do now but really try to let it go and focus on healing and pushing forward, go on with your life.

 

Property is no longer hers and she has also previously said she wouldn't have minded him keeping it if he'd said goodbye (so its a manipulative move).

 

This is true but it's coming from a painful place for her, not mean malicious manipulation. She feels he doesn't deserve the gift anymore because of how he handled the ending of their A.

[woinlove]

As to your other question about should NC be established at the end of an A - I think affairs break many rules many would hold about how to treat others and their ending is often in the midst of a lot of pain, confusion, anger and other emotions. It would always be kinder and more respectful to end with a clear message, such as one person stating that the affair is over, preferably with simply stated reason, and that there should be no further contact. I'm sorry you never got that and he simply disappeared. Ultimately, just like it was his choice to have an affair, it is his choice how he ends it. His wife may ask for this or that, but ultimately he is in control of his own actions.

 

It does not sound promising about getting the item back, unless it is in the mail already on its way to you. I don't think making threats will help, but if you do feel you never really gave it to him but only loaned it, then you could look into legal action.

[TaraMaiden]

I apologise if I'm wrong, but nowhere did I see that the item was a gift.....

 

[woinlove]

I apologise if I'm wrong, but nowhere did I see that the item was a gift.....

 

 

This is the earlier thread the OP refers to, that gave her advise to ask for the gift back, through a friend.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/366821-asking-something-back

[TaraMaiden]

Ah, sorry.

 

Yeah, gotcha.

 

In that case, OP, you are really batting on a sticky wicket.

 

Your only hope is that he will have some sympathy for your plight, and return it to you 'out of the goodness of his heart'.

 

This is a bit like letting Boyfriends take highly risqué photos.... and then hoping, after you break up, that he won't splash them all over the internet.

 

In hindsight, it was a particularly stupid thing to do, whatever he said.

He may have promised the earth, but until those promises were fulfilled, you shouldn't have put so much faith in him.

 

He was busy lying to his wife.

It naturally follows that he had no qualms about lying to you, either....

 

Yup.

It's probably a much safer thing to let it go.

[jwi71]

I had an earlier post of regarding wanting something back from my xMM which belonged to my dad. So, I did what was suggested by a few people here. I had a male friend send him a text (actually he called as well, but didn't leave a voicemail) and ask for my sentimental item back. To simply please send it. Nothing. When over a week passed, I had a weak moment one day. I text myself, that he please send it. That I should have it back, as it was my dad's. Nothing.

 

Hoping this thread degenerates into legalities or who would sue whom -

 

You have, as you have indicated, a belief that your xMM knows you have asked for the item's return.

 

He has failed to do so in a reasonable time frame - provided a week-ish is a reasonable time frame.

 

I would consider the item to now be lost. I would not expend any more energy in pursuing it - simply hope that one day, it appears to you again.

 

I read so much about how, usually at the BS's insistence, there is establishment of no contact. Thoughts?

 

This is a bit of smoke and mirrors and blame shifting - I see it here often.

 

The BS may DEMAND NC - but the MM DELIVERS. You are simply using the "excuse" that the BS demands NC as an excuse for his NC. Clearly, the "rules" didn't prevent the A to begin with - so he's certainly capable of breaking them.

 

He chooses not to.

[watergirl12]

Send him a text telling him that unless he returns the item immediately - you will turn up on his doorstep to collect it in person.

 

Some time.

 

Hell, what harm can it do?

 

 

I am with Tara, tell him you will come to retrieve it. If he prefers to not send it to your house, have him send it to the post office to be picked up.

 

Don't give anything of value to a man till you are married.

[waterwoman]

If I was the bs I would want it returned to you. In fact I'd send it myself. The fact that he won't discuss it with you implies he no longer has it?

[fooled2manyX]

Maybe he no longer has it. And I am sure that from the texts I had sent, if she didn't know about it initially, she knows now of course from looking at this phone. I don't know. But yes, I agree. I would even think she would say "send it to her" just to get it over with. Frankly at this point, being that his phone is still on and my number hasn't been blocked, you would think it would just be done to cease contact from me. Of course, I don't plan on doing this the rest of my life. I guess if it's not sent, I will have to chalk it up. I just haven't gotten there yet. This wound still is not healed, there is no closure he gave and now I can't even get it back. I don't know. Just hurting.

[whichwayisup]

He left one day and never came back. He never told me what he was doing...and don't &%#@!* tell me that it wasn't my right to know. I had EVERY right to know. It concerned MY life TOO. And right or wrong, it concerned me because "HE" concerned me. So, he should have been a big boy after and ended it the way it needed to be. Had he done that, I wouldn't be writing on this site. I wouldn't be as hurt as I am. But I should have my father's belonging.

Yes what he has done and how he's handled everything is shi.tty. He should have said goodbye, should have properly ended the A. BUT, obviously there was a D-day and his wife has said it's me or her, you can't have both...He chose his marriage and wife. And yes you should have that watch back, but if things had ended the way you wanted them to and he helped give you closure by giving you that goodbye, would you still want the watch back? Or would you have allowed him keep it?

 

As I said earlier in my reply, make peace with not getting the watch back. He SHOULD give it back to you, but he may not. It sucks and I'm sorry that this is unsettling for you. Though, with that said, you have tons of wonderful memories of your father, pictures and I'm sure other items that were his that are sentimental as well. Try not to focus too much on the watch, k.

[skylarblue]

I don't think you have anything to lose by asking him in person. I wouldn't suggest going to the home that he shares with his wife. You need to put yourself in a least confrontational position as possible. If you know where he works or hangs out, approach him there.

 

Although, I believe the decent thing for him to do is return the gift, he is not obligated. You did give it to him as a gift regardless of the reason why. You should be prepared for him not to return it (as it seems he may not). Heirlooms and extremely sentimental items should never be given to someone outside of passing it down through family IMO. Even as a general rule I was taught to lend something as if you will never get it back (never lend/give something of high or irreplaceable value to you). It is extremely unfortunate that your feelings and faith were so strong and genuine in him to give him something so valuable. I am sorry.

 

This may become a very hard and painful lesson. I truly hope he gives it back to you.

 

Is it correct that you would not be asking for it back if he had said goodbye?

[woinlove]

f2mX, I think you need to weigh the importance of the watch to you with the importance of you healing and moving on. For example, trying to see him in person, just plotting that out and attempting to carry it out, sounds like a large investment. And it may not work if he is not at work/home/hangout right then, or if there are too many people around, or if his wife is with him. I don't know why he would give it back to you after a personal confrontation (which is what it would be, as you would not be stopping by just to chat, but to get something from him which he has shown no inclination to give you) when he didn't respond to other requests from a friend or you.

 

I'd advise forgetting about this, despite its importance to you, and focussing on your own healing and moving on. I just think more unhappiness lies in pursuing this further.

[SidLyon]

The watch (or whatever you gave him) was a gift and so is now his in the legal sense. I suppose if he and his wife have joint ownership of all assets then technically it is now marital property or would be in the event of a break up. He would have been free to give it to her had he wanted.

 

I agree that morally he ought to have returned it.

 

I thought from the earlier thread you were advised to send him a self-addressed and pre-stamped envelop so he could return it to you if he still has it. To me getting a male friend to ask is inflammatory, and had a far less chance of success.

 

Given that you gave the gift it is now his. He seems to want to maintain NC and this is his right. I agree he should have told you and should have returned the gift but he didn't.

Edited February 4, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[woinlove]

 

And I will not be told by anyone, even if they are all opinions, that my dead father's item can now belong to his wife, because he was wrong to her. He was wrong to her. And wrong to me... and it's not marital property. Please. It's mine and it should be returned.

 

I'm so sorry, f2mX, but if you gave it as a gift, it is his property. Technically it may even be marital property, but let's not focus on that. The point is all you can do is try to convince him to chose to give it back if you. The question is how far do you want to go in trying to do that and how do you think it will affect your own healing and moving on?

 

Interestingly, I lost something of my dead father's too in my own A, when the stbxW destroyed it while it was in MM's possession (it was not given to him). I cried over that, but I ultimately came to recognize it as a symbol for how messed up the whole situation was and finally understood that the stbxW's actions came out of her own pain and hurt. Could my father come back to talk to me, he would tell me, it's okay, what's important does not lie in any possession, and he'd be glad that I did move on, away from xMM, to find much greater happiness. I hope you find great happiness too in your future. And, I don't think pursuing this watch is going to lead you there, given what you have already tried and not succeeded. Sorry, but sometimes the best thing you can do is to let go.

Edited February 4, 2013 by woinlove

[thomasb]

Tthis would be seen, rightfully, as a ploy to have contact with the husband. The watch was a gift to him and I'm sure went into the trash as soon as he made the decision to reconcile. Let it go. Begging for gifts back will only make you look like a fool to him. Trust me. Move on and find happiness with someone who can give it to you freely.

[whichwayisup]

I don't think you have anything to lose by asking him in person. I wouldn't suggest going to the home that he shares with his wife. You need to put yourself in a least confrontational position as possible. If you know where he works or hangs out, approach him there.

 

Although, I believe the decent thing for him to do is return the gift, he is not obligated. You did give it to him as a gift regardless of the reason why. You should be prepared for him not to return it (as it seems he may not). Heirlooms and extremely sentimental items should never be given to someone outside of passing it down through family IMO. Even as a general rule I was taught to lend something as if you will never get it back (never lend/give something of high or irreplaceable value to you). It is extremely unfortunate that your feelings and faith were so strong and genuine in him to give him something so valuable. I am sorry.

 

This may become a very hard and painful lesson. I truly hope he gives it back to you.

 

Is it correct that you would not be asking for it back if he had said goodbye?

 

It seems this way. If he had given her a proper goodbye and some closure she would have allowed him to keep the watch. I do get that on some level, but at the same time, she sees he wasn't the person she thought he was and feels he doesn't deserve the watch anymore, isn't worthy of it - So she wants it back. This is why trying to sue him or going to the cops will go against her. A gift is a gift. Now if he had borrowed it, that's a whole other ball game.

[whichwayisup]

. I wonder if grieving the item is just a proxy for grieving the relationship.

 

Not sure about that. I could be wrong but it seems really more that she feels he is a real jerk and she feels he isn't worthy of something so sentimental (dad's watch) anymore because of how their A ended and he went into silent mode/NC with her. It's losing something she thought would mean something to someone else that she cared about, but that's all changed. And probably brings up some sadness about the loss of her dad too..

 

I do agree it was a big mistake to give the watch away and I'm sure if she had to do it all over again, the watch would not be given away (then again, maybe the A wouldn't have either..) but anyway, this situation for her is unsettling and giving her a lot of anxiety now.

[LFH]

If you insist on seeking its return at least approach his wife not him. If you approach him you are seeking him to betray her further even of you don't sees it that way. You are also making it much less likely he gives it to you. If as you say she knows all his communications then he will consult her and she will not see it your way. Whatever she sees it won't be that.

 

Call me vindictive but if it were me in her place I'd destroy it if I thought you wanted it that much. After what you made her suffer (yes, with him) I wouldn't feel at all guilty about that.

 

You will also make yourself look like a crazy stalker. Might help them unite against a common enemy but doesn't help you. You could end up with a restraining order if you keep contacting.

 

I agree with thomasb. If the H was serious, and unlike many cases he seems vey serious about R, he hasn't set up a fake email or bought a new phone or called from work, all things she couldn't prevent... Well then he has shown where he stands. And I know it hurts but your feelings aren't mattering to him.

 

Ok. You're vindictive.

 

And you know, I think she has a right to be too if she wants to.

[fooled2manyX]

LFH, thank you. Although, I really don't want to be vindicitve. I've said this before & I'll say it again, I don't begrudge him his choice, but rather the manner in which he just said to himself "she'll figure it out sooner or later" (that he was gone).

 

MFH70, you are really missing something here. You talk about that I could bring on a restraining order to myself. Well, first of all, I am not calling or texting like a loon. In recent month, I had only text about the watch. BUT.....

 

...this furthermore brings up something about establishing no contact which he didn't do. Granted, I know it's over because it's been so long. But, why would he & the wife want to seek a restraining order? The way I see it "he never told me it was over." If I really wanted to get technical. Which is the whole premise of these posts. One might say to him "Well, you told her it was over and not to contact you, right??" And he would say "No. I never did."

 

Hmm. Now again, that would be getting technical. It's obvious that it's done with the time that has passed not hearing from him.

 

But MFH70, maybe you get where right or wrong there is a way to do things. The first would be don't have an affair. I got that. The second would be don't trust. I got that, because I believed everything he told me about divorcing and us being together, but the third would be..... if something is over... end it.

 

And the watch was not just a gift I bought in a store. It belonged to my dad. It was given when he telling me he was 1) in love with me 2) going to leave his wife and end his marriage 3) marry me one day 4) have a child with me ...etc.

 

So..... I gave the gift under those pretenses. What's wrong with me wanting it back? You find more wrong in me wanting it back than you do in the lies. Or even if he meant them at the time, he changed his mind and I had the right to be told.

[sweet_pea]

I think the bottom line is that, as a gift, it is now under his ownership.

 

Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is.

 

Contacting him, will only (probably) make it worse for all parties involved.

 

I think it's best to move on, and realize that you may never get it back.