pinkie Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Are we supposed to fear God? Why? I thought he was a loving God who forgives us of our sins... I'm confused. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Are we supposed to fear God? Why? I thought he was a loving God who forgives us of our sins... I'm confused. The term used when we say "fear God" actually means worship God. It is to respect God with awe. It is not only fear as in be afraid. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author pinkie Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Ohhhh, Ok. Thanks JamesM for clearing that up for me... whew! I thought I was supposed to be AFRAID of him. Seemed counterproductive . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The term used when we say "fear God" actually means worship God. It is to respect God with awe. It is not only fear as in be afraid. That is the view taught in at least 90% of contemporary churches. But I have found a different view presented by the Bible and taught in nearly all generations past. While we certainly should have "awe" for God, you need to understand it's more than that. We are dealing with a truly terrifying God. If people are scared of angels when they appear in their glory, how much more should we be afraid of God the Father, Jehovah? I know one might say that NON-believers should be scared of God, and rightly so, but listen to what Isaiah (a righteous prophet) had to say on this matter: "My flesh trembles for fear of you, and I am afraid of your judgments." (Isaiah 119:120) In the verse above, we aren't just dealing with a state of mind, such as "awe". We are also dealing with a physical description of flesh trembling. Awe doesn't make flesh tremble. Fear does. Isaiah said his flesh trembled for fear of God, and in particular God's judgements. In all honesty, we need to remember who God is. Look at the world around you. It's not only glorious, but it's terrifying. Some pretty awful things happen. Kings are cast down and destroyed. Good and evil people, alike, are killed. And in the Bible a single angel came down and slaughtered 185,000 Assyrians. This is the God we're dealing with. Yes, he loves us. But honestly if you don't somewhere in your mind have a lingering sense of literal fear of him, I think you either don't understand who he truly is, or you are worshipping another God. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It's kinda like having a strong Dad. You love him and are grateful for how he backs you up and takes care of you and delights in you... but you do NOT want to be on his bad side. You've seen it. Things get ugly. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 That is the view taught in at least 90% of contemporary churches. But I have found a different view presented by the Bible and taught in nearly all generations past. While we certainly should have "awe" for God, you need to understand it's more than that. We are dealing with a truly terrifying God. If people are scared of angels when they appear in their glory, how much more should we be afraid of God the Father, Jehovah? It is not only fear as in be afraid. We agree. It is used both ways. We should fear God for who He is, but we should also fear God as in worship him with reverent awe. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It's kinda like having a strong Dad. You love him and are grateful for how he backs you up and takes care of you and delights in you... but you do NOT want to be on his bad side. You've seen it. Things get ugly. There's a great scene in the movie Cindarella Man, with Russell Crowe playing a legendary boxer in the Great Depression. His son steals a slab of meat from the local butcher to feed his family. The father (Russell Crowe) tells him to take it back to the butcher because he doesn't want his son learning bad lessons. His son just sits there for a few seconds. Then the father says, "Do not test me, boy." Immediately the boy shot up off his seat, picked up the meat, and ran out the door to take it back. This was a great example of how a dad was so respected (and feared) that he literally didn't even have to raise a finger on the boy for him to get his obedience. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Are we supposed to fear God? Why? I thought he was a loving God who forgives us of our sins... I'm confused. God is a loving God who forgives our sins...when we repent, and accept that Jesus died for our sins . Otherwise, God sees us plainly, without the blood of Christ. The English word "fear" in the bible is actually many different words in the original translation. So I think it depends on which verse you read to determine what the original meaning of the text was 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 God is a loving God who forgives our sins...when we repent, and accept that Jesus died for our sins . Otherwise, God sees us plainly, without the blood Not only that, but the concept of reaping and sowing applies to believers and non-believers, alike. If I, a believer, slack off at work and don't do my job, eventually I will pay the price and get fired. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Not only that, but the concept of reaping and sowing applies to believers and non-believers, alike. If I, a believer, slack off at work and don't do my job, eventually I will pay the price and get fired. Yes, there are definitely consequences to our actions. Luckily, God is slow to anger (Psalm 103:8, and many other verses ). By the example above, do you mean that someone would get "fired", or in other words, lose their salvation? Or was it just an analogy? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It's kinda like having a strong Dad. You love him and are grateful for how he backs you up and takes care of you and delights in you... but you do NOT want to be on his bad side. You've seen it. Things get ugly. Well said OB:love: I found this and thought it would add towhat you've already said. The whole article has to be read to get the full meaning though. Fear of God 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Yes, there are definitely consequences to our actions. Luckily, God is slow to anger (Psalm 103:8, and many other verses ). By the example above, do you mean that someone would get "fired", or in other words, lose their salvation? Or was it just an analogy? No I was just making a distinction between salvation (which is fixed) and basic "reaping and sowing" (which is not fixed). Reaping and sowing applies to everyone in regard to things both big and small. Salvation on the other hand cannot be lost or gained. I know this is controversial but we cannot lose salvation. If it appears that someone has lost salvation, they were either never saved to begin with or they are merely going "through the wilderness" but still under the hand of God. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Ahh, the fetid doctrine of predestination. I am not surprised in the least. The sky is blue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 so if you're jewish, buddhist, shinto, mislim, agnostic, atheist,... you're outta luck. i thought church was a good thing, it made people better, but this is such an ugly side that more and more people don't want to be associated with it. can you blame them? they though it was love, but its exclusion. and everyone from one religion goes to heaven and everyone else burns eternally. i don't think so. sorry. Name one person who Christ doesn't offer salvation to. You can't. The problem that you have with God is not that he is exclusive (he accepts anyone who comes to him); the problem is you want it YOUR way, not Gods way. You want people to reach God on THEIR terms. This is prideful. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) worse still is even in your chosen religion there's divisions. unitarians, episcopalians, methodists, baptists, catholics, and the disagreements can run very deep. fear god or not fear god. gay marriage or condemn the gay lifestyle. pro life or pro choice. there's divisions in most religions. jews are othrdox, reform, conservative, reconstructionist. muslims are sunni and shiitte. is it a surprise to you that untold millions of innocent people have died in the name of religion? be religious but honestly to me and others this fear god and this exclusionary stuff is a bunch of nonsense. Sorry to get you back on track. Man has sinned and broken God's law. God offers a solution by salvation through Jesus Christ. This offer is for anyone who believes. I'm not following you. Where exactly is the exclusiveness? If you were drowning in the water and someone threw out a life preserver ( ie, Jesus), would you not grab hold? Would you instead say, "We'll that's exclusive! I want an airplane to rescue me! Or a life preserver of a different color!" Edited February 7, 2013 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 why are wars fought? because one religion or another says their religion is the best and if you don't convert i'm taking your land. no ones is the best. Fact: More than 99% of lives lost from war in the 20th century were caused by nations whose leaders or population as a whole were atheist. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 i thought one of the ten commandments from your religion was thou shall not lie. you are lying. Lenin, Stalin, Mao Zedong... Do simple research on the numbers. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Are we supposed to fear God? Why? I thought he was a loving God who forgives us of our sins... I'm confused. I always liked Dr. Stanley's explanation of this topic What is the proper way to fear the LORD? (Ask Dr. Stanley) - YouTube 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Absolute bilge. You trotted out this sheer nonsense a long time ago, and it was addressed. That was the last we heard from you on that one. To summarise: Which nations were atheist as a whole?Which nations had an atheist leader?What do their actions have to do with their atheism?How do you derive the 99% number? Do you have a list of everybody who died that century?Seriously, as a math teacher would say: "Show me how you worked that out."Give it your best shot, M30. This should be fun. Now that we bring this up, anyone wanna guess who ranks highest on total kills for any dictator in the 20th century? (No Googling.) And to answer your question, quickjoe, most people wouldn't disagree that nations CAN be classified, for example, as "Communist", etc. Furthermore, it's agreed that Communism is "government without God". There are many political scientists, philosophers, and theologists who have said this. Now take a look at the top 10 worst dictators in 20th century and see how many of them were Communist. (By the way, in case you're wondering, Hitler doesn't even rank in the top 3). Edited February 8, 2013 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 ...anyone wanna guess who ranks highest on total kills for any dictator in the 20th century? (No Googling.) No, lol...I'll never get this...who?? Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Ahh...predestination. I am not surprised in the least. Predestination: Not surprising in the least. (intentional? who knows...it's making me laugh) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 No, lol...I'll never get this...who?? Mao Zedong of China. He killed 78 million. Joseph Stalin killed the second most with 23 million. Then Leopold of Belgium with between 15 and 20 million (though some of his murders were in the late 19th century). Hitler, as a reference point, killed 17 million. Now let's talk about abortions: 52 million (as of 2009). Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Mao Zedong of China. He killed 78 million. Joseph Stalin killed the second most with 23 million. Then Leopold of Belgium with between 15 and 20 million (though some of his murders were in the late 19th century). Hitler, as a reference point, killed 17 million. Now let's talk about abortions: 52 million (as of 2009). Thank you! When Satan rebelled against God, was Satan saying that he was more powerful than God, and thus saying that God wasn't a God at all? If so, would that make Satan an "atheist" at that moment? And would that make all of us, in our moment of prideful sin, "atheists" when we are in sin? Like we're basically negating God's god-like authority in our lives by saying that our way is better? Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Thank you! When Satan rebelled against God, was Satan saying that he was more powerful than God, and thus saying that God wasn't a God at all? If so, would that make Satan an "atheist" at that moment? And would that make all of us, in our moment of prideful sin, "atheists" when we are in sin? Like we're basically negating God's god-like authority in our lives by saying that our way is better? There is (and cannot be) a direct competition of power between God and Satan. God could merely speak Satan out of existence, and Satan knows this. The battle instead is over the angels, initially, and now us. We are the target of the battle. Satan believes he can get angels and mankind to follow him and his ideas. God obviously allows it. By the way, Satan is probably MORE of a theist and believer than any human being. He KNOWS the truth. But it's the pride, as you said. He insists on destroying not God, himself, but God's will and God's creation (angels and us). This is the only POTENTIAL chance he stands. And even at that he will lose. Although he WILL unfortunately take a percentage of angels and humans with him. Why God allows this is the million dollar question that we'll never know. Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 There is (and cannot be) a direct competition of power between God and Satan. God could merely speak Satan out of existence, and Satan knows this. The battle instead is over the angels, initially, and now us. We are the target of the battle. Satan believes he can get angels and mankind to follow him and his ideas. God obviously allows it. By the way, Satan is probably MORE of a theist and believer than any human being. He KNOWS the truth. But it's the pride, as you said. He insists on destroying not God, himself, but God's will and God's creation (angels and us). This is the only POTENTIAL chance he stands. And even at that he will lose. Although he WILL unfortunately take a percentage of angels and humans with him. Why God allows this is the million dollar question that we'll never know. Ahh That makes sense regarding what is actually going on. I'm thinking out loud, but in Satan's mind (how he would view things), isn't he trying to say that God isn't god-like at all, if Satan himself can overpower him? Anyway, I don't even know what I mean...so nevermind! Link to post Share on other sites
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