Didn't Leave Husband

[AVR1962]

Had asked husband to leave in Dec, I felt logically that was the way ahead. He then asked me if that is what I wanted and of course it is not but I also dod not see change possible either at this point. I had stopped counseling for awhile but start again next week. I am not on antidepressants that have helped.

 

I guess I should have seen the warning signs right from the start. When I met my husband 23 years ago he was definately interested in looking at other women but he showed no desire to initiate intimacy or sex. I tried to hold his hand and he dropped it. I told him I loved him and he said he couldn't say it. I was the one initiating sex, or anything as far as that goes, well over 85% of the time. I asked him if he loved me and he said it had nothing to do with that and then at first he told me he promised himself he would never be hurt by another woman. So I thought it was trust issues and just stayed and contniued to be the seeker.

 

This went into all areas of our life, not just sex. He didn't ask me to dinner or out to a movie. He was content to stay home and watch TV and do crossword puzzles. I explained that normally when a person has interest in someone they show that by trying to spend time with them but I did not see this in him. He continued to say that he had never been the ideas person in a relationship and he had always been the one persued.

 

The one thing I did like about this is he wasn't constantly hounded me or sufficating me. My first husband would threaten to go out and find someone to have sex with if I didn't give it to him. He was a very demanding selfish man. He wanted sex constantly and there was nothing that would quench his thirst for sex. It was nothing for him to have sex 10 times in one day. He was also a cheater which is why we divorced. So it was a nice change of pace to be able to seek and then not feel like I had these demands to submit to. However, there was something very lacking at the same time (and still is) and that is his interest in me.

 

In our first year of marriage I realized that if I did not come to him or anythng he would not come to me, whether that was sex, a vacation, dinner out, etc. I remained the planner and still am to some degree. What probably hurt the most in all of this is eventhough he showed no interest in me he was showing interest in other women. In that first year of marriage he was going out of his way to walk to this one lady's office, the walk would have been a good 10 minutes from one building to the next, just to chat with her and tell jokes. One day I watched as he and this lady headed off to lunch together. So I asked him if he was interested in her and he claimed he was not. Nothing changed at home. I told him I did not understand why he was seeking time with this other woman when he was not seeking time with me. He always has had some reason and in this case he said he had no idea I would be interested or available for lunch. Guess who didn't ask?

 

We moved, this happened again with another lady. By then we had Internet and he was staying up late at night watching porn. I tried repeatedly to sneak in and catch him but I never could. One of our kids found files hidden on the computer which then made my thoughts reality. I am dead against pornography which of course he knew. I ahd asked hi to stop his Playboy subscription before we married which he did.

 

We moved again and yet another lady. We then went to counseling for his porn addiction and all that has been mentioned above. The male counselor we had was very good. I think husband thought he woudl be compassionate towards him and help me understand the male mind but that is not how it turned out. The counselor told husband that he was not just hurting me and our marriage but he was hurting himself with his interests and habits. He explained to us that males in the teen years seek females to satisfy their interests in the opposite and that most times males will sex but in the case of my husband he saw this as unsafe, felt rejected without trying and sop he began fantasizing and sought out porn to satisfy his desires. He would a world of sex interest that was safe to him, one that did not involve one on one contact, it was all what he coudl make it for himself. Our counselor suggested that it coudl have been possible that he had been sexually abused and that is what created his unsafe world. he wanted to explore that with husabnd but husband refused.

 

Husband did stop his porn habit and the 3rd woman was the last that I saw him interested in, this was all about 8 years ago. He FINALLY, after a good female friend of mine had an emotional affair, confessed that these were emotional affairs for him and that he had thought of them sexually but had not initiated. After years of him lying and then he finally admited that was one huge final straw for me. I stopped initiating sex. It seemed to me that these women were good enough to buy chocolates for and to go to lunch with and here I am not receiving this kind of treatment and yet I was the one trying to build my life with this man? I could not continue to keep pursuing him.

 

Recently we had couple's counseling and we each had individual counseling. Counselor said husband was passive-aggressive and would never change. She said that I found a man who would never be avaialbale to me just like my relationship with my parents, I had found someone to pick up where they left off.

 

I read a book which talked about 'love banks' and this made perfect sense to me. I realized why I have felt so alone and unloved, unwanted. He was not making deposits into the love bank, only withdrawls til I finally had nothing left. When I stopped initiating sex we went from once a month to once a year. Now I do not even want him to touch me. Having now a partnership rather than anykind of intimate relationship I asked him "why?" and he said that he has never been comfortable with intimacy. Oh, now 23 years later he can tell me this and oh he loves sex and he loves to look at the ladies, feels a good ego boost when someone laughs at his jokes but where am I in all this?

[GoodupsEvil]

Just trying to help here, so my 2 cents are as follows:

You married your second husband for two reasons that you clearly stated and understand.

 

One, he was the opposite of your first husband, and accordingly appeared like the solution to that problem.

 

Second, you sought to recreate the circumstances from your childhood in order to rectifiy the wrongs done from that time. (basic theory asserted in Getting the Love you Want, or something...) basically, you married your caregivers.

 

There are processes that may work for bringing your marriage back around, if you and your husband are willing to put in the work to make it happen. The book I mentioned is an easy read, and comes with a companion "workbook" that is for couples to do together. I would start there if husband will play ball.

[AVR1962]

I had to skim through most of this novel. What I don't get is why you wasted your time 23+ years ago with a jerk like this when you knew EXACTLY what you were getting?

 

Seriously, was he the ONLY one who would date you? Oh wait - he wouldn't go on dates. His idea of a good time was to plant his dead ass on the couch and do crossword puzzles and treat you like the family dog. I couldn't imagine wasting my time with someone like this, begging for crumbs of affection day in and day out.

 

And your answer to that crap treatment was to MARRY him? Seriously?

 

Hopefully, individual counseling will help yo understand why you made such incredibly hideous choices. Don't know what else to tell you.

 

Glad you have never been put in this situation. "Begging for crumbs of affection" is what I did as a child in my parents home which I did not realize for the longest time. It was thru recent counseling that this is finally coming together for me. I found someone to pick up where my parents left off so sadly enough it was comfortable and non-threatening and that's what has made it last for 23 years. Sad, isn't it? Be careful what you teach your children.

[AVR1962]

You need to figure out what you want.

 

The first guy was too suffocating. The second guy is too stand-offish. Then you follow him around constantly and go through his stuff and wonder why he continues that treatment.

 

I wouldn't want to be around my wife either if she did the things that you do.

What are you talking about? I do not go thru my husband's stuff and never have.

[AVR1962]

Just trying to help here, so my 2 cents are as follows:

You married your second husband for two reasons that you clearly stated and understand.

 

One, he was the opposite of your first husband, and accordingly appeared like the solution to that problem.

 

Second, you sought to recreate the circumstances from your childhood in order to rectifiy the wrongs done from that time. (basic theory asserted in Getting the Love you Want, or something...) basically, you married your caregivers.

 

There are processes that may work for bringing your marriage back around, if you and your husband are willing to put in the work to make it happen. The book I mentioned is an easy read, and comes with a companion "workbook" that is for couples to do together. I would start there if husband will play ball.

 

Thank you for your kind and helpful reply. I will look up that book.

[TaraMaiden]

AVR1962 Where are you in all of this?

 

You're in his comfort zone.

Counselling has changed nothing but to give you a focal point whence this dependency of yours began.

 

Up to you to find where you are in all this, but my question to you would be - when do you finally get out?

 

And why is he still there?

[Ladybugz]

long post like this are always to depressed with not relevant information.why

[pcplod]

It sounds like he is up for the IDEA of romanticism, love, affection but not the reality of following through on the mucky, risky, testing reality. I wonder whether it is any more complicated than that?

 

I hear this term "passive-aggressive" bandied around all the time nowadays and I wonder whether it is only actually relevant in a minority of situations. It does literally mean that he is aggressive towards you in a passive way by avoiding, evading. He may well be avoiding and so on but that does not necessarily make him aggressive. Do you feel he seeks to punish or control you through passive-aggressive behaviour around this? I think that is essential for this sort of label. He sounds more straight-forward afraid.

 

I am also dubious about the counsellor's suggestion that he may have been sexually-abused. That simply may be why he won't consider talking about it. Has he explained WHY to you? For anyone to actually be physically intimately-adverse it doesn't necessarily mean they have to have been sexually abused. They just have to be inexperienced with physical contact during their childhood and consequently be afraid of appearing incompetent when even just thinking about doing it. It is extremely difficult to be positive and enthusiastic about something that you have absolutely no experience of.

 

You don't say in your post, but when you do initiate sexual contact with him does anything actually happen or are you always turned down? I would have thought that to also be crucial to understanding the situation. Also, if it does happen, what is your experience? Is he pretty well passive during the event or does he show any interest in taking any sort of initiative?

 

It may well be that this is all down to learned responses but that is not to say it is not a real serious issue/problem. Trying to 'unlearn' those responses is a big challenge and an impossible one if you are not even prepared to think about trying.

[AVR1962]

It sounds like he is up for the IDEA of romanticism, love, affection but not the reality of following through on the mucky, risky, testing reality. I wonder whether it is any more complicated than that?

 

I hear this term "passive-aggressive" bandied around all the time nowadays and I wonder whether it is only actually relevant in a minority of situations. It does literally mean that he is aggressive towards you in a passive way by avoiding, evading. He may well be avoiding and so on but that does not necessarily make him aggressive. Do you feel he seeks to punish or control you through passive-aggressive behaviour around this? I think that is essential for this sort of label. He sounds more straight-forward afraid.

 

I am also dubious about the counsellor's suggestion that he may have been sexually-abused. That simply may be why he won't consider talking about it. Has he explained WHY to you? For anyone to actually be physically intimately-adverse it doesn't necessarily mean they have to have been sexually abused. They just have to be inexperienced with physical contact during their childhood and consequently be afraid of appearing incompetent when even just thinking about doing it. It is extremely difficult to be positive and enthusiastic about something that you have absolutely no experience of.

 

You don't say in your post, but when you do initiate sexual contact with him does anything actually happen or are you always turned down? I would have thought that to also be crucial to understanding the situation. Also, if it does happen, what is your experience? Is he pretty well passive during the event or does he show any interest in taking any sort of initiative?

 

It may well be that this is all down to learned responses but that is not to say it is not a real serious issue/problem. Trying to 'unlearn' those responses is a big challenge and an impossible one if you are not even prepared to think about trying.

Pcplod, thanks for your reply. I too have been thinking that passive-aggressive seems to be a catch-all term. As far as the sex is concerned I have only been turned down a couple times and one time when I asked him why (in the first year of our marriage) he told me he wanted me to know how it felt. I thought that was a little strange, it was not like I was turning him down all the time, it was rare that he came to me. He did tell me just recently, after all this time together, that he is not comfortable with intamacy and yes, our counselor did say this is something young men learn in their teens but because he was not comfortable (or confident) he did not pursue. Sex with him is disconnected, it is almost like an obligation sort of. Last time we did anything he said to me, "you suppose we should do something, I don't want to be accused of not trying" (due to our counseling) and then it was so mechanical. Before, I can't say it was always was this way but very different.

 

As far as the passive aggressive behavior we can agree to something he is going to say to the kids and does he carry that out? No, he comes up with, and these are words straight from his mouth when we had agreed porn was not allowed in our home and dealing with a teenage boy, "Your mom has had issues in the past with porn so keep it in your car." What the heck was that? I could not belief it. When I asked him why he said what he did, he said that's how he saw it. What happened to what we agreed to? He then says he understood his son at that age and knew that anything he said would not be heard. So, why did he not say something to me?

 

Another example, out with friends and husband starts making a joke about how I was impatient and rolling my fingers on the table when we had to go thru a search to get on a flight. Why? what was the purpose for this info and why was he pointing out to them I ws impatient? I kept my mouth shut and I went thru the process without a word. We were just very short on time and I feared we were going to miss our flight.

 

Here's another one for you, more recent.....we are a stepfamily and there has been tension with his sons. I am comminucating with stepsons' wife about the bay they are expecting. I ask for a date and get nothing but the month. Her is is the 3rd week of the montn she was due, I ask husband if he heard anything. He fwds me the email his sons sent to him 10 days previous. I asked him why he didn't tell me and why he did not go to see his grand daughter....no answer. I email stepson's wife to congratualte her and she accuses me of lying, saying I should have been there at the birth and asks me what kind of a grandmother I am. Holy cow! I did make a reply and let her know that I had no date and I would ahve been there had I known. Husband makes no attempt to clear this up with his son.

 

Over and over again I have the punching bag but my counselor had helped me ALOT. She also counseled with him one-on-one which did help him alot too. Now I know how to bounce that ball back in his court and he has been more aware of his behavior. Definately not perfect but a far cry from what is was even 5 years ago.