I've damaged her beyond repair

[AbeNormal]

frequently KISAs are good guys who seek to feel important and empowered by saving a damsel ( or Dumsel:laugh:) in distress as it is a diversion of doing the hard work of saving and empowering themselves.

 

the affair is a symptom of unfinished childhood business. the AP irrelevant. the drama...over the top.

 

not that the BS will find much solace in that.

 

I understand. I'm not actually as harsh as my "guy speak" would suggest - at least I don't think so. Best wishes.

[neveragain34]

Would you still love and care about her if she told your wife about the A? Continuing to talk to her is only going to make it harder for her to move on and she will truly break someday and tell your wife.

 

Just let her go. I, like many others on here, was once in her shoes, lifeless and numb, thinking I'd never be the same without him. After a few weeks with NC AT ALL, she will start feeling like herself again. I am happily dating now and know it wouldn't be possible if he was making contact with me still, even minimal.

[Decorative]

frequently KISAs are good guys who seek to feel important and empowered by saving a damsel ( or Dumsel:laugh:) in distress as it is a diversion of doing the hard work of saving and empowering themselves.

 

the affair is a symptom of unfinished childhood business. the AP irrelevant. the drama...over the top.

 

not that the BS will find much solace in that.

 

Yup. My knight married me- which was a healthy choice, because I'm strong and independent and have zero need to be saved. But the OW? Needed and craves rescuing.

 

But that didn't clean up the mess he had been pushing down, and the damage from his childhood.

 

Because people can't save each other. You have to learn to save yourself. And once you get that- then you can be a healthy and safe partner.

 

#soapboxrantover

[Mount]

Not everyone, some OW knows what she is doing, and what is her telling MM and he is following through. Everything needs a plan/scheme. Does it make sense?

 

Well you can see where he's coming from. Many many OW come here and everyone rallies around telling them it's all the MMs fault, he led them on, he's not followed through, he didn't love them or he did love them (whichever they want to hear)... He was a cold calculated liar or he took advantage.

 

Well here is a clear example from the MM showing that the Ow is equally responsible for te A and completely responsible for her own pain. Her choice to be in an affair. But if Shame has been reading here I can understand he was expecting the "MM did it all to you" line to be endorsed.

[18Years2Late]

No this A has finished I am 1000% confident I will never again stray I am doing everything necessary to make my marriage happy and healthy again. My wife an I are becoming closer and it feels great she's great, she's amazing and wonderful and im starting to feel comfortable around her once more, things are finally on the up for us.

 

I'm still struggling with my emotions for exow though and I know I shouldnt be as I'm happy and content with my W. I just want to help her through this as a friend and nothing more, why can't I do this ?

 

Who are you trying to convince?...us or yourself?...

 

If you keep repeat it enough it will eventually become true right?...especially if you use a whole bunch of adjectives in one sentence...GREAT...WONDERFUL...AMAZING...

[2sunny]

I was thinking - that even calling her (or texting) is as much a betrayal to your W as if you'd had sex with the OW again.

 

Mainly because you say you're working on repairing the damage in your M - but there you are communicating with the OW. That means you're still focused on her - when you say you're focused on your M!

 

Which is it? It can't be both at the same time! Do you see why we are saying that you couldn't possibly be reconnecting with your W?

 

IF your W KNEW you had cheated - and CHOSE to forgive you - can you see the HUGE betrayal even reaching out to your OW would be?

 

 

The OW is a grown woman - IF she chooses to drink herself into oblivion - it's not YOUR responsibility to try and "rescue her"! She needs to grow up and deal with her own life the way she should.

 

You can't save her from her OWN poor choices!

 

 

Ad since you must drive by her place every time you head home - and your STILL paying attention to what she is or isn't doing ---> MOVE ASAP!

 

It's just a house - MOVE!

[dreamingoftigers]

He refuses to do that because to CONTINUE to be his OW's KISA, he would have to confront how he did nothing to be his wife's KISA. I KNOW she coul have used one.

 

That will burst the KISA bubble for sure.

 

I know this. I lived it.

 

and when reality hit my fWS he had to live with the very real possibility that I would divorce his OW's KISA (HIM) and go find an AUTHENTIC and available one of my very own .....for about 3 years.

 

After DDay, I WAS the damsel in distress, with a man who had cheated on me for two years, and although I decided to reconcile....the KISAs kept coming out of the wood work for a very long time.

 

Cripes, I had a KISA literally the NIGHT my ex-fiance broke up with me try to get a date.

 

I had a KISA approach me bluntly within two weeks of mine and my husband's separation last year and I was so down in the pit I almost jumped at it!

 

Thank God I came on LS and thought that one through before going at it.

 

Man that would have been such a disaster! Ugh so many KISAs are really just Dorks in Tin Foil......

[ForeverGuilt]

Hi Shame On Me,

 

I am the OW and as hard as it has been, I have just been ignoring his texts. Everything you read says there has to be no contact. In fact, I feel bitter for him to reach out and make sure I was okay. I am only one week into it and have hardly functioned, but have managed to ignore 5 texts. If I were to correspond with him at all it would reopen all the wounds and the healing would have to start over again.

 

I applaud you for seemingly truly caring for her. I think at some level my MM cared about me, but in the end not enough. I felt very patronized when he told me I was the love of his life. Us OW just have to move on. Time heals all. We will all heal and hopefully find someone to give us all their time.

 

Take care and be strong.

[AbeNormal]

Cripes, I had a KISA literally the NIGHT my ex-fiance broke up with me try to get a date.

 

I had a KISA approach me bluntly within two weeks of mine and my husband's separation last year and I was so down in the pit I almost jumped at it!

 

Thank God I came on LS and thought that one through before going at it.

 

Man that would have been such a disaster! Ugh so many KISAs are really just Dorks in Tin Foil......

 

I don't know, but it seems to me that those aren't KISAs (in the sense of otherwise very good guys - but because of past issues have some need to "be a hero" - and end up doing something stupid) - but rather they are just shallow opportunists trying to get laid. The latter type abound.

Edited February 10, 2013 by AbeNormal

[WakingUp]

Hi Shame On Me,

 

I am the OW and as hard as it has been, I have just been ignoring his texts. Everything you read says there has to be no contact. In fact, I feel bitter for him to reach out and make sure I was okay. I am only one week into it and have hardly functioned, but have managed to ignore 5 texts. If I were to correspond with him at all it would reopen all the wounds and the healing would have to start over again.

 

I applaud you for seemingly truly caring for her. I think at some level my MM cared about me, but in the end not enough. I felt very patronized when he told me I was the love of his life. Us OW just have to move on. Time heals all. We will all heal and hopefully find someone to give us all their time.

 

Take care and be strong.

 

Hi Forever Guilt

 

Im with you on this... the best thing MM can do is leave his OW in peace... there is NOTHING he can say or do that will help, he can only make things worse.

Let the wounds heal, decisions have been made and now need to be adhered to.

Shame, leave her alone for petes sake... you are only trying to make yourself feel like the good guy... and to be honest, you aren't.

[dreamingoftigers]

Those aren't KISAs in the sense of Spark's or Decorative's husbands - just shallow opportunists trying to get laid. They abound.

 

I hear what you are saying.

 

I think Guy #1 was really socially just..... wow. He might not have been a full-fledged KISA. Judge for yourself.

 

He had wanted a date with me for quite awhile even though I was in a relationship. He was foreign from a very poor nation where his family had been very wealthy and then had to move as refugees. He didn't seem to contextualize the same values as we have here. He REALLY wanted a wife here. He literally went on a wife-finding trip after. He wanted to support her, keep her etc etc etc etc. But he was totally weird. And tbh I don't think a lot of that was cultural. He grew up in a very isolated environment. He really did want me to feel 10000X better. He was the type of guy that would bend down to do up your shoelace. He was also the type of guy who when I started dating my husband threw his shoes in the garbage....twice. The second time was the day after my husband quit smoking. He never tried that again.

 

Guy #2 was total KISA material. Written all over it.

 

He had married a woman who needed constant, CONSTANT everything done for her and constant rescuing. Until she got sick of her same old boring husband doing the rescuing and decided to hit it with his brother instead. And then his friend whom she left him for, then six months later that guy's best friend. UGH. With two kids in tow.

 

Yeah, he really tried to get in here and we went grocery shopping together one night and he had a kind of blowout in Sobey's about what a jerkoff my husband was and how he was going to blah blah blah treat me etc. Really laid it down on the line. I had thought we were being friendly etc. But he was really building up this "I'm gonna be that guy that he ain't and we are going to have the white picket fence with the 3.5 kids because clearly you have what it takes and you just need to ditch your H" thing going on. Ugh. I did really know that he was a "fixer."

 

I actually even popped up some threads on it and talked to him about it. Then it kind of did an opener for him. He's still a pretty dense guy but he started going around a bit more standing up for himself with the ex and realizing that he didn't want to end up in another "Save the girl" relationship.

 

We stopped talking a long while ago. I could see that any continued friendship was going to be at best more of a pain in the ass. I was digging myself out of the pit and really he fell by the wayside. Plus his damned ex-wife (who was still a distant friend but someone I always "felt sorry" for moved in with me when the last guy kicked her out. So her damned KISA ex-husband started showing up at my door more and more often. I focused on my daughter and keeping the roof above our head. He started getting on my nerves and even started acting like the man of the house a bit. So when she moved, I cut all contact. Plus my husband had moved back in by then and was really irked that someone so close to his family had tried to move in on it. Generally not a good scenario for Thanksgiving.

[dreamingoftigers]

I must remember to point it out next time. The message is to love on I grant you, but there's a lot of "you need to get angry at him for treating you like this" and "he owed you a goodbye" and "he should have not kept you as an option and fed you crumbs"....when actually he should have been much harsher. Fine if that makes women get out of other peoples marriages I guess it's in a good cause, but it's hardly accurate.

 

There's a definite pattern of telling OW try should end it because they are worth more. How about a MM ends it because he is worth more? Especially of they are both married- that's equally bogus. They're not worth more than they chose for themselves. But the honest spouse is.

 

The big problem here is that both the OW and the W have the right to be respected.

 

The right doesn't diminish with any human being when they behave poorly. It often doesn't pan out that way in reality, but the right is still theirs.

 

When I see a younger, poor-boundary OW who really obviously has been fed a line and sees only the circumstantial evidence of what he provides her instead of the bigger picture. He knows what he is doing and honestly, lots of times, she just damned well doesn't. There have been lots LOTS of 18-20 year old OW on here saying "he's unhappy, I make him happy, his wife doesn't" not seeing where the responsibility should rest or lie.

 

It's sad but not every young woman does get a proper schooling beyond the generalized "it ain't a good idea to do that" idea of embarking on an affair with an MM. MM generally NEED the type of OW who would fall for the line to begin with. That usually means naive or detached women who can't see past (perceptually or otherwise) the day to day existence of the affair.

 

Some are just looking for "a little fun" and don't see "the harm."

 

I know as a BS that it is catastrophic to watch those who partake in this behaviour as truly feeling or caring people. But many are. Many are just horribly, horribly mislead about their role in healthy relationships etc. and many haven't had it modelled to them or how to screen for a potential partner. My mother, despite horrible relational faults, instilled a really deep respect of marriage in me.

 

I had a crush on an art teacher when I was 16. He didn't wear a ring. When I found out he was married, I felt so guilty. The crush didn't evaporate overnight (it did soon after) and I really felt sheer, pure guilt any time that I would notice him. I think a lot of these OW women would not feel like that if they had the same experience. The just don't see MM as anything other than the W's victim or as a man untethered from his family. A lot of OW will say "BW just didn't exist to me." I believe that. I can see how they might think that.

 

But when it comes to MOW, come on! You know what an M is, especially if you have kids. You have more than an inkling of what a partner is supposed to be. How very very very shortsighted.

[AbeNormal]

DOT,

 

I’ve been reading your posts for some time. Woman, you’ve been through a lot – and have shown so much strength. It’s been helpful for me to read what you have written. Thanks.

 

As per the KISA thing – well, I was trying to make a particular distinction between two possible scenarios/extremes (you know my real intent – and, it seems, I got caught in an edit).

 

But, upon reading your description/post – I’d have to say there is “door number three”. And what a bizarre set of prizes resided behind that door…

Edited February 10, 2013 by AbeNormal

[stevie_23]

Stevie,

 

I have enjoyed reading your posts! It amazes me how far you have come in such a short time period.

 

I think it is the "what ifs" that fuel an obsession with the affair partner.

 

Just because you have the spark/infatuation with this person does not mean they are permanent relationship material. Many people, when even dating, are on their best behavior around the OP.

 

But then when the relationship progresses into marriage/living together 24/7, you quickly realize there were many many things about the other person that you had not seen before.

 

Through the years of marriage, there might be lots of different people that you feel a connection/spark to.(thats normal) But what makes the difference is whether you honor the committment you have already made.

 

Thank you!! I am an over-thinker and so while I tend to get tangled up in my own self a lot of the time, at least I DO tend to learn things and try to develop a deeper understanding of things at a fairly fast pace, if for no other reason than it helps soothe my pain.

 

I have a long way to go though. A really long way, and I may never get there. Coming to various "peaceful" conclusions about my ex-MM and my relationship with him is just the first step and the fact that I'm still even thinking about it shows I haven't actually come that far at all! But it's ok. For now.

[2sunny]

The big problem here is that both the OW and the W have the right to be respected.

 

And that's not at all possible the minute one enters an affair.

[dreamingoftigers]

And that's not at all possible the minute one enters an affair.

 

Hence the de facto advice for that reason (among many others) is quit the affair and work on yourself/boundaries etc etc etc.

[stevie_23]

And that's not at all possible the minute one enters an affair.

(re respecting either the wife or the OW)

 

I actually told my ex-MM something along those lines a long time ago. How I wouldn't "go on" like we were forever (online, long distance A) without either ending it or properly being together, us only. Because I felt I was not in EITHER relationship properly (either my long term real life partner or my A) because I wasn't committed 100% to either of them, as much as I would've liked to be and felt I should have been. I said it wasn't fair to anyone of us. I didn't at the time associate that with respect, but it so obviously is.

[dreamingoftigers]

Respect is earned DOT. And having lost such respect and self respect it takes a lot of earning back.

 

I agree if an 18 year old is in an A with a married 40 year old then she is probably less to blame than he. But she is still an adult. A 10 year old knows right from wrong. And we are talking about grown adult women.

 

I agree many never think of the wife or the devastation. But I don't see that as any kind of excuse. And it sure doesn't change tw fact they have nothing to complain about if they are dumped. If they were never entitled to it in the first place they have lost nothing. They have, as you know, cost the wife something forever.

 

"Respect is earned."

 

I disagree. Basic, fundamental respect to not harm another human being in anything other than self-protection or protection of vulnerable innocents is not "earned."

 

I do not have to "earn" not being insulted for my past choices. I do not have to "earn" not being disrespected by perfect strangers because they don't like what I have done to someone else's personal life. There's a difference between bluntness and respect. One can be blunt and respectful of another's self at the same time.

 

And seriously, it isn't about an "excuse." It's about a reason. An obvious perceptual reason. Is that a "ticket?" No. Not at all.

 

Big difference there. Same as when someone says "I am an addict."

 

A whole bunch of people crow "that's just an excuse, you're a lazy selfish blah blah blah."

 

No, Addiction means that one gets to acknowledge their frailty as a flawed human being and see that they need to take responsibility for their inner turmoil, often with far fewer resources than most people because many addicts have histories that destroy connections with supports and others.

 

So many people see " the excuse." Others see the " reason." And yet others still see " the courage to admit to one's frailty."

 

So OW, adult or not and WS, adult or not again come on here and either say: here is my frailty, my failing, my fall-on-my-face. And I don't quite know what to do... I want us (or all three) to be happy and here we are miserable, advice?

 

And then they are met with a plethora of responses ranging from " Well, **** you, you made your bed you excuse-making piece of ****."

 

To, "Oh okay, so you think that you are just going to get away with it?"

 

To, "Don't worry about it, you were weak, have fun, enjoy it while it lasts maybe you will get your day in the Sun, true love prevails blah blah blah."

 

To others who say," Hey, I feel your pain, however some of your own actions have deeply contributed to this and there are consequences that you didn't see and didn't intend. You aren't doing yourself, your family or your AP's family any favors here. Not having an affair isn't just a morality play, it leaves scars on everyone involved whether they know it or not. We've been there, here's a better road to go down."

 

What in your opinion sounds the healthiest for everyone involved?

 

It isn't about being complicit. It is about not bathing people in shame who often were over-bathed in shame to begin with.

 

Jeepers, in this thread the OP names himself after Shame! He knows it on some level.

[pureinheart]

I never lied to her ! she was informed I wasnt leaving my family and she accepted that, she still accepts that! I never once lied to her about anything.

 

With all due respect SOM, you didn't lie with words, but with actions.

 

I realise this thread is long, and I'm a bit late in reply:o and I'm not trying to dump on you, please know this...although this is cruel, a cruelty that can kill the spirit and trust of a person(s).

[shame_on_me]

Wow I'm amazed at the amount of cold hearted-ness on here and I understand why that may be, but for goodness sake there is a young woman self destructing and that is partly MY fault yes hers as well but if she wasnt in a vulnerable state of mind when we met she may not have entered this affair with me.

 

If I do get my deserves and my wife finds out I can assure you all I will still feel bad for what I have done to exow, it may not be at the forefront of my mind but it will still be there.

 

 

A little more background

 

I lost my father due to the fighting in N Ireland and also my sister her unborn child and husband were killed a month later by a bomb that was under their car, when we moved away I was abit of a wild and very angry teen until I met my wife she helped me through my anger and own self destructiveness and made me a better man if it wasnt for her I would have went back for revenge that is for sure. So do not doubt for a second I do not love this woman, yes I slipped I f**ked up and I will pay for that either by being found out or by guilt. I'm already paying so far as I still can't have sex with my wife, it's just not happening.

Edited February 10, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Response to deleted post

[anne1707]

Shame

 

Rather than speculating on what might or might not happen to your exOW, what do you need to do to help you figure out what you want and what you need to do to get there?

 

Have you figured out what was going wrong for you before you started the affair? Because you need to deal with that.

[movingon45]

Hi.

 

 

Please will exOW tell me she will be ok, ive never heard her like this before she was always happy and full of life. ? Will she love life again, will she smile again, she has the most beautiful smile you have ever seen!! I dont know what to do I asked her if she wants to meet up and talk but she said no because we both know what will happen. I love this girl and I want her pain to stop, but I love my wife more and I am not leaving my family she even said she never wanted me to either.

 

How long were you together and how long has it been since your last contact? Maybe she has not healed yet.

[woinlove]

shame, what are you looking for here?

 

You've received good advice in the past and now. First, to not contact the xOW, but you did anyway. If you have read this forum at all, you can clearly see the pain of xOW being contacted by xMM who have no intention of leaving their wives.

 

Second you say you are paying by not being able to have sex with your wife. I would say your wife is paying a whole lot more in that regard, likely feeling unattractive to her own husband, not to mention that she's not getting any sex. You've received good advice on how to solve that too. Without restoring intimacy, your sex problems will likely continue, and you can't have intimacy in the midst of huge deception.

 

You ignore all the advice that would help you change the things you claim to be unhappy about. So, maybe you are exactly where you want to be. Something to look into, why you like feeling the way you do. Is it because of your past and feeling you should not be happy? I don't know, but nothing is going to change until you actually want it to change. Right now, you seem pretty bent on continuing things the way the are. That's really too bad for your xOW, your BW, and I would say for you too, except that you are the one who could change things if you wanted to.

[Got it]

You can have a happy, good marriage where one party gets a mental illness. Or becomes an alcoholic. Or into cutting tthemselves. Or a gambling addict. Or a cheat. Their brokenness is not on their M. Their M could be the one good thing in their life but if they are going to be self destructive it can still be done that way as opposed to others mentioned.

 

Would you say a person who engages in self harm must be in an unhappy or not good marriage? Would you really expect their M no matter how good, to fix something like that in them? An affair isn't different. APs just like to think it is.

 

We may be arguing opinions but I don't agree. I do not think you have a good marriage when one person has a severe personality change, addiction, etc. I do not believe that "good" would be the proper descriptor for the state of the marriage. Since the two individuals are the foundation of the marriage, when one has become weakened then the foundation is weakened. It doesn't mean that the other partner shares responsibility but nevertheless the foundation is a sum of the two so it cannot be good if one person is not in a healthy state of mind.

 

Definition of GOOD

 

1

a (1) : of a favorable character or tendency <good news> (2) : bountiful, fertile <good land> (3) : handsome, attractive <good looks>

b (1) : suitable, fit <good to eat> (2) : free from injury or disease <one good arm> (3) : not depreciated <bad money drives out good> (4) : commercially sound <a good risk> (5) : that can be relied on <good for another year> <good for a hundred dollars> <always good for a laugh> (6) : profitable, advantageous <made a very good deal>

c (1) : agreeable, pleasant <had a good time> (2) : salutary, wholesome <good for a cold> (3) : amusing, clever <a good joke>

d (1) : of a noticeably large size or quantity : considerable <won by a good margin> <a good bit of the time> (2) : full <waited a good hour> (3) —used as an intensive <a good many of us>

e (1) : well-founded, cogent <good reasons> (2) : true <holds good for society at large> (3) : deserving of respect : honorable <in good standing> (4) : legally valid or effectual <good title>

f (1) : adequate, satisfactory <good care> —often used in faint praise <his serve is only good — Frank Deford> (2) : conforming to a standard <good English> (3) : choice, discriminating <good taste> (4) : containing less fat and being less tender than higher grades —used of meat and especially of beef

2

a (1) : virtuous, right, commendable <a good person> <good conduct> (2) : kind, benevolent <good intentions>

b : upper-class <a good family>

c : competent, skillful <a good doctor>

d (1) : loyal <a good party man> <a good Catholic> (2) : close <a good friend>

e : free from infirmity or sorrow <I feel good>

— good·ish adjective

— as good as

: in effect : virtually <as good as dead>

— as good as gold

1

: of the highest worth or reliability <his promise is as good as gold>

2

: well-behaved <the child was as good as gold>

— good and

: very, entirely <was good and mad>

[Got it]

Have you ever considered the fact that cheaters cheat?

 

If I have to keep my current wife happy 24/7 so she does not cheat then there has to be something wrong. We are happy, but I know quite well I will not be able to keep her happy 24/7 for eternity. There will come a time when we will hit a low point. And if she is a cheater (I hope she is not) she will cheat.

 

But, cheaters come in other varieties. Many cheat before the wedding or during the honey moon. A cheater cheats. Is that hard to accept?

 

I don't understand your point. What does this have to do with what I wrote? Happy and good mean two totally different things.

 

I did not make any comments about one proclivity towards cheating the dynamics in which they would do so.