I've damaged her beyond repair

[Decorative]

People can still do their jobs, even if they are ill.

 

Again- Got It?

 

Please read some Glass, Fisher, Pittman and Gottman.

 

It will open your eyes - and quite possibly help you in your upcoming marriage.

 

The dynamics aren't what you think, always.

[Got it]

The person has to be broken to be an alcoholic yes. Does that mean hes unhappy with his wife? He may adore her. He may be very happy with the part of his life his M takes up. But so broken in himself that he is self destructive.

 

A less intrusive example is perhaps my Hs grandfather. He loved his wife and kids more than anything. Adored them. Lived for them. Yet he could not give up smoking to save his life. Not even for love of them, not even to keep his happy marriage alive. He was addicted and broken (he used it to calm his memories of war). Very like the way an affair can exist despite a happy marriage. Just another form of self destruction and escapism (not necessarily from the M). And doesn't necessarily reflect on the M. Of course sometimes it is a deliberate abuse of the wife. Not saying that doesn't happen, but it's not necessary.

 

You would probably say no alcoholic is happy. But you can't say every alcoholic has an unhappy M or is unhappy with his wife. Separate those concepts.

 

His wife and M could be all he keeps going for, his only joy. And yet that doesn't stop him from destruction. Or keep him happy in himself.

 

What on earth is your definition of broken? I do not see an addiction as being necessarily broken? Broken means unfixable. I don't agree with this.

 

I think it is very severe to say that one addicted to smoking is broken. They have a chemical dependency that they will not or can not overcome. Research has shown that some individual's chemical make up is much more difficult to overcome the nicotine addiction than just lack of will. For some individual, without medical assistance they are not able to kick the habit because of the chemical make up. I SERIOUSLY doubt your grandfather kept smoking because of the war. He kept smoking because he was addicted and because he didn't think it was worth not smoking.

 

Alcoholism is a very different addiction than nicotine addiction as its impact on one's chemical, emotional, and physical make up. Unlike nicotine it can impact and change one's personality as it will start deteriorating internal organs including the brain and will impact memory, cognitive reasoning, etc.

 

So yes an alcoholic's addiction will have a far greater impact on their marriage than nicotine addiction. Just like drug addiction will have a great impact as it will start causing changes in one's brain.

[ComingInHot]

shame;

You still haven't answered what you are looking for from LS at this point... We'll??

[Got it]

I wish you would read up on affair psychology.

 

It's not remotely an oxymoron.

 

It's why a happy marriage is no inoculation against cheating.

 

Maybe start with Glass, then followup with Pittman.

 

Decorative I did not say a happy marriage was not inoculation from cheating. I had no issue that happy marriage could have cheating. My argument was with the use of good. Please reread.

[Got it]

Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh

 

you are all getting me wrong, I know I miscommunicate I find it difficult to express my true feelings via typing.

 

I do not need that ego stroke anymore, I acknowledge I once did. Im just concerned for her well-being that is all, I DO NOT WANT TO ENTER AFFAIR WITH HER AGAIN!!!!! My family IS my top priority and please stop trying to insinuate otherwise, my family and I are all extremely happy at this time we are more of a unit now than ever before.

 

Which person would not feel shame/guilt over what they have done to a young woman ? why do you feel I should not feel this ? I acknowledge it is not completely my fault but still I participated in it.

 

She was not a drinker before this that is for certain, I knew about her car because i drove past her apartment (which has to be done to get to my own house there is no alternative) it was parked up one of the wheels were off, it was still like this days later.

 

Shame, I think the guilt you are feeling is good and a good indicator of you. Guilt means you are aware that you did something wrong and you are empathetic towards others. That is a good sign.

 

Let the guilt guide you by shaping your actions so you can live with less guilt. To be blunt, right now it is what it is. You did hurt her, she hurt her, you both hurt each other. It is the state of the union right now. But how much it impacts her, how she grieves and how she moves forward is all on her. You cannot control how she handles things just like you can't control how anyone acts. Just like she cannot control how you choose to do things.

 

We are all truly on our own in dealing with our emotions, no one can know exactly what we are feeling and how we work through it. She needs to work through this process. I am sorry and sad to hear that she is drinking more as that will not help her heal and will only exacerbate the emotions. But she is walking her path, please leave her to it and you focus on your life.

 

She needs to focus on her life. You need to focus on your life.

[Got it]

People can still do their jobs, even if they are ill.

 

Again- Got It?

 

Please read some Glass, Fisher, Pittman and Gottman.

 

It will open your eyes - and quite possibly help you in your upcoming marriage.

 

The dynamics aren't what you think, always.

 

Again? My apologies, my real life impacted so I am not on here every day all day to post more promptly. My sincerest apologies.

 

Sigh . . . yes I have read them. And sorry I stand by my opinion. I am not discussing jobs. You are correct, one can go through the motions. I am discussing more than that.

 

Why does this trigger you so much to say that I don't think good is the right descriptor of a marriage if one is mentally sick?

 

If I am mentally not healthy, then I am impacting the health of my partnership and so if that matters to me then I am going to do what I need to get healthy and rectify it.

 

We are only as strong as our weakest link.

 

Why is this seen as a negative? Why wouldn't a BS support the idea that the WS was impacting the health of the marriage and while they were mentally/emotionally unhealthy they were contributing or causing the state of the union to not be healthy. So they exacerbate the issue by also including an affair into it which would make the foundation even weaker.

 

It is my duty to be mentally and emotionally healthy so I am contributing to a healthy foundation. If I am weak, it is weakened and vice versa. And every marriage counselor/counselor I have spoken with, attended their clinic, has agreed with this.

[Pierre]

We may be arguing opinions but I don't agree. I do not think you have a good marriage when one person has a severe personality change, addiction, etc. I do not believe that "good" would be the proper descriptor for the state of the marriage. Since the two individuals are the foundation of the marriage, when one has become weakened then the foundation is weakened. It doesn't mean that the other partner shares responsibility but nevertheless the foundation is a sum of the two so it cannot be good if one person is not in a healthy state of mind.

 

 

I have to agree, If one spouse is a cheater the marriage is not good. However, the marriage was probably good up until the point the cheater started to act up.

 

However, in the end cheating is due to personal flaws and not the state of the marriage. The cheating requires dishonesty and not all people in bad marriages are dishonest.

[Decorative]

Decorative I did not say a happy marriage was not inoculation from cheating. I had no issue that happy marriage could have cheating. My argument was with the use of good. Please reread.

 

I have no problem with what I read. I am crystal clear.

 

I know exactly what you meant- and no listing of dictionary definitions obscures it. LOL

[Decorative]

Again? My apologies, my real life impacted so I am not on here every day all day to post more promptly. My sincerest apologies.

 

Sigh . . . yes I have read them. And sorry I stand by my opinion. I am not discussing jobs. You are correct, one can go through the motions. I am discussing more than that.

 

Why does this trigger you so much to say that I don't think good is the right descriptor of a marriage if one is mentally sick?

 

If I am mentally not healthy, then I am impacting the health of my partnership and so if that matters to me then I am going to do what I need to get healthy and rectify it.

 

We are only as strong as our weakest link.

 

Why is this seen as a negative? Why wouldn't a BS support the idea that the WS was impacting the health of the marriage and while they were mentally/emotionally unhealthy they were contributing or causing the state of the union to not be healthy. So they exacerbate the issue by also including an affair into it which would make the foundation even weaker.

 

It is my duty to be mentally and emotionally healthy so I am contributing to a healthy foundation. If I am weak, it is weakened and vice versa. And every marriage counselor/counselor I have spoken with, attended their clinic, has agreed with this.

 

I just wanted to tell you I read this.

 

And I understand your meandering point.

 

But I don't agree with you fully, and that's okay. But you and I face this from different directions, fundamentally. You're an entirely different type of person than I am- which is a-okay.

[William]

In order for this thread to remain open and respondents to retain free posting privileges, I'll direct members to focus on this last posting from the thread starter:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/372510-i-ve-damaged-her-beyond-repair-5.html#post4598237

 

And proceed from there in a topical and respectful manner. If this is unacceptable, I'll close the thread and process out the postings individually from that point forward until the thread is cleared of non-conforming discussion.

 

This topic can be discussed in a manner which is helpful and positive. I expect it will be. Carry on.

[Got it]

I just wanted to tell you I read this.

 

And I understand your meandering point.

 

But I don't agree with you fully, and that's okay. But you and I face this from different directions, fundamentally. You're an entirely different type of person than I am- which is a-okay.

 

So not to t/j Decorative do you mind if I take this and start another thread? I want to deep dive this difference of opinions as I am a little confused why we seem to be odds.

 

Thanks

[wanting more]

Wow I'm amazed at the amount of cold hearted-ness on here and I understand why that may be, but for goodness sake there is a young woman self destructing and that is partly MY fault yes hers as well but if she wasnt in a vulnerable state of mind when we met she may not have entered this affair with me.

 

If I do get my deserves and my wife finds out I can assure you all I will still feel bad for what I have done to exow, it may not be at the forefront of my mind but it will still be there.

 

 

A little more background

 

I lost my father due to the fighting in N Ireland and also my sister her unborn child and husband were killed a month later by Yga bomb that was under their car, when we moved away I was abit of a wild and very angry teen until I met my wife she helped me through my anger and own self destructiveness and made me a better man if it wasnt for her I would have went back for revenge that is for sure. So do not doubt for a second I do not love this woman, yes I slipped I f**ked up and I will pay for that either by being found out or by guilt. I'm already paying so far as I still can't have sex with my wife, it's just not happening.

 

When my A ended, I felt horrible. I felt used. I felt lied to. I felt if never be the same again. I hated him, I loved him, I missed him. I felt every emotion there is. I couldn't function some days. I cried a lot. I drank more than I should to try and ease the pain(NO, im not an alcoholic, but I had days).

 

My xMM didn't contact me, and I couldn't understand why. But guess what, times passes, things become clearer. It got to where I could go hours without thinking of him. I built myself back up. The hate i still have towards xMM is what gets me thru my days now. And yes, I think of him less and less. It doesn't matter what he thinks of me, doesnt matter IF he thinks of me. I build myself back up. Im leading my life now, not the A.

 

There are enough BSs on here to help and advise you on your M. But as an xOW, I'd ask you to leave her alone. She's a big girl. She has to decide where her life takes her. What she thinks of you can't matter to you. She's got to do whatever it takes to get herself through. Please leave her alone. You're hurting her more now, by trying to contact her. You chose to stay in your M, you need to focus on that, not your xOW.

[shame_on_me]

When my A ended, I felt horrible. I felt used. I felt lied to. I felt if never be the same again. I hated him, I loved him, I missed him. I felt every emotion there is. I couldn't function some days. I cried a lot. I drank more than I should to try and ease the pain(NO, im not an alcoholic, but I had days).

 

My xMM didn't contact me, and I couldn't understand why. But guess what, times passes, things become clearer. It got to where I could go hours without thinking of him. I built myself back up. The hate i still have towards xMM is what gets me thru my days now. And yes, I think of him less and less. It doesn't matter what he thinks of me, doesnt matter IF he thinks of me. I build myself back up. Im leading my life now, not the A.

 

There are enough BSs on here to help and advise you on your M. But as an xOW, I'd ask you to leave her alone. She's a big girl. She has to decide where her life takes her. What she thinks of you can't matter to you. She's got to do whatever it takes to get herself through. Please leave her alone. You're hurting her more now, by trying to contact her. You chose to stay in your M, you need to focus on that, not your xOW.

 

 

Thank you for this.

 

I guess after reading through all the posts that it is actually me who is having a harder time letting go than her. I will refrain from contacting her again.

[wanting more]

Thank you for this.

 

I guess after reading through all the posts that it is actually me who is having a harder time letting go than her. I will refrain from contacting her again.

 

The best thing my xMM did for me, was NEVER contact me. It seemed so cruel in my eyes. But I know it was the best thing. I do wonder sometimes if my bad feelings towards him will change and I'll lose some of the hate and I don't know that answer yet but my hate is what's getting me thru this now. It's what I need to feel to get me thru. I don't know all your xOW is feeling now, I'm sure it's some of what I did. If I remember correctly, you did tell her goodbye. Leave it as is. She's not your responsibility now. The only thing you owe her is no contact so she can push herself forward. Give her that and only that. NC.

[anne1707]

I guess after reading through all the posts that it is actually me who is having a harder time letting go than her.

 

Which is also why you need to go NC for your sake. If you want this to end, you have to take strong, clear steps to help you do that. Maintaining contact is just keeping the wound open for you too.

 

 

Side note: totally agree with you re wars and beliefs

[shame_on_me]

The best thing my xMM did for me, was NEVER contact me. It seemed so cruel in my eyes. But I know it was the best thing. I do wonder sometimes if my bad feelings towards him will change and I'll lose some of the hate and I don't know that answer yet but my hate is what's getting me thru this now. It's what I need to feel to get me thru. I don't know all your xOW is feeling now, I'm sure it's some of what I did. If I remember correctly, you did tell her goodbye. Leave it as is. She's not your responsibility now. The only thing you owe her is no contact so she can push herself forward. Give her that and only that. NC.

 

I will, as before though we will no doubt bump into each other at some point as we live in same small town.

 

Thanks again

[Spark1111]

Which is also why you need to go NC for your sake. If you want this to end, you have to take strong, clear steps to help you do that. Maintaining contact is just keeping the wound open for you too.

 

 

Side note: totally agree with you re wars and beliefs

 

FBS here...and what is clear to me and so many others, is that you are still so emotionally invested in your OW, her pain, her problems, your guilt about HER, that there is no room for re-investing in your wife or your marriage.

 

it will never be all that you had with your OW because you will not allow that.

 

And other than confessing to your wife, I do not know what will make her real to you.

 

to say that you will take more trips but keep your secret is appallingly condescending to all women.

 

What would wake you up to the wife you sooooo complacently take for granted in every line you write here....the woman you claim to love but cannot make love to....

 

what if every thought, action, sneak, lie, crazy sex that you are still consumed by with your OW, was something your wife was doing to you?

 

Would you care more?

[Ellin]

Shame On Me, I haven't read the whole thread, I just want to say that your xOW probably feels (like many others in this situation) that she wasn't good enough for you and worthy enough to be loved fully by you and since you're staying with your W there is nothing you can do to make this feeling go away.

[stevie_23]

This is where some soul searching on her part comes in.

 

Throughout my own A, I was always insecure and yet my ex-MM never gave me a reason to feel that way. It came from my own feelings that I was NEVER good enough because he was with someone else.

 

Someone once said to me that as the OW, you will NEVER be the top priority no matter how much love and devotion is given to you by the MM. It is simply the way it is as the OW. You are not THE woman, you are the OTHER woman. And if your ex works out why she was ok with accepting this status in your relationship in the first place, and also accepts that she couldn’t do anything or be anything that could change that, then it may be easier for her to let go of any feelings of not being “enough”.

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow I'm amazed at the amount of cold hearted-ness on here and I understand why that may be, but for goodness sake there is a young woman self destructing and that is partly MY fault yes hers as well but if she wasnt in a vulnerable state of mind when we met she may not have entered this affair with me.

 

If I do get my deserves and my wife finds out I can assure you all I will still feel bad for what I have done to exow, it may not be at the forefront of my mind but it will still be there.

 

 

A little more background

 

I lost my father due to the fighting in N Ireland and also my sister her unborn child and husband were killed a month later by a bomb that was under their car, when we moved away I was abit of a wild and very angry teen until I met my wife she helped me through my anger and own self destructiveness and made me a better man if it wasnt for her I would have went back for revenge that is for sure. So do not doubt for a second I do not love this woman, yes I slipped I f**ked up and I will pay for that either by being found out or by guilt. I'm already paying so far as I still can't have sex with my wife, it's just not happening.

 

I'm not sure who the cold-heartedness remark is aimed at. The following statements are not in my "defense" if they were aimed at me but are pretty much anecdotal. Draw from them what you wish or need.

 

I will be blunt though: when I had more co-dependent tendencies as a youth I found emotionally healthy people (often leaders and such) to be very "cold-hearted." And some are, truly.

 

I had to learn the very hard way that leaving the gate to one's heart open and consistently vulnerable was both a major disservice to myself and the other person.

 

I literally could not be responsible for the well-being, emotional or otherwise of another adult. It made them dependent and often enabled and continued their own train of destruction.

 

That is not to say that I do not have a tremendous amount of empathy for those that suffer. What I do know is that a helping hand temporarily and for a specific purpose can help. But that a constant, forever hand in helping is reserved under special circumstances and only with those one is deeply committed reciprocally to. And children. Our children should expect the security, guidance and help of their parents. Age-appropriate of course.

 

Adults are people with a full range of choices, and different opportunities.

Your OW is an adult. She has been for quite some time. She may not have been raised with proper boundaries and emotional regulation. But as it stands you are not in the proper or appropriate position to reach out to her without creating more harm. Those who are part of her current support network may be. Granted if there is an actual full-on emergency like you accidentally hit her with your car in a grocery store parking lot, than yeah, you call 911.

 

She had wanted to be on her own for an extensive amount of time and most people that I have seen go through a first divorce are often caught unprepared for the consequences of that. An affair and its ending double that. I went through separations when my husband would take off. He wasn't prepared for them practically ever. But by time three I was better equipped to deal with it, and it still hit like bricks. But I got up after a week and started fighting to normalize life.

 

You can't help her through that or pull her through. She has to make that fight herself or ask for appropriate help. If she's hitting the bottle more, that's not surprising. It is also probably not a permanent thing. Either way, the very thing she is claiming triggered it is not a welcome addition to the equation: your contact.

 

As for your "just desserts" I don't believe that life is full of "Karmic evenness." There are degrees of that sure. But then there are dictators that cause the sufferings of thousands, millions even that die peacefully in their sleep at old age with their family surrounding them. There are rich people that take and take. There are partiers who toss responsibility to the wind and never feel the need to pick it up again. There are adulterers that never get caught and secrets that are never exposed.

 

I don't think any truly healthy, sensible person sees otherwise. BUT just like any addict, the highs come from somewhere. My husband is an example I like to use, because our situation can apply to so many destructive patterns. He didn't "feel bad" about his addictive and adulterous issues for quite some time, save for guilt. In fact, sexual addicts (I doubt that you are one, seriously doubt) are practically so wired for dopamine that it inhibits bonding with their mate until they cool the jets for at least 90+ days. They literally can't feel the attachments and can't feel the remorse. They can feel guilt though, and often use sexual acting out to blunt it.

 

Anyhow..... my husband's highs did not come with his own "deep lows" or "crashing" but it did have a net effect on everyone around him. His crazy highs resulted in the cratering of our marriage and a very heavy effect on my self-worth and well-being. Even my ability to bond with my daughter was affected. Eventually he temporarily lost the right to be her custodial father.

 

His highs did the damage around him. Eventually he was one of the lucky ones whose brain did eventually kick in. But my God, what a cost. Those highs were borrowed at a very high interest rate. We still make huge emotional payments on them. I don't even fully know how that "Debt" has effected my daughter.

 

An affair is like using a credit card you know you can't pay to go on an exciting vacation. Except unlike credit cards, the debt doesn't disappear, collection happens somehow, and if not you, those involved with you or around you. Or things just aren't ever the same.

 

I learned a lot during that time. I grew some steel inside me. Thank God. I guard my heart better and guarding my heart allowed me to stand up to his demons without casting him away. But truly, I could not have been any use to him or my daughter or myself without being strong enough to not brush aside my concerns. I could not ignore it. I could not live with it. Thank goodness.

 

The most important thing I learned is that by recognizing and taking care of my needs first and foremost, I could love and carry my family through crisis ten times more efficiently. It was the best thing I could do for my family was to love MYSELF first. It gives my daughter permission to do the same and it gives my husband an example of self-compassion and forgiveness. And empathy. Need lots of that.

 

If he were to return to his dark ways, I would have to let him go because that would be showing him and demonstrating that I actually respect his choices and I respect myself. People vote with their feet.

 

You are with your wife. If that isn't congruent to what you truly want, you are in the wrong place. Life's too ****ing short for that. If you chose your wife, choose her.

 

If you want to save your OW, do your role in saving her but letting her grow up and make her own choices. She chose this as much as you did. Respect it. Respect what she chose and the risk she took. Respect your own marriage and respect your own choice.

 

Anything else will bring more rain upon all of your heads.

The no sex thing: you seriously need to talk to a therapist if you can't navigate this yourself. There are so many years of resent and then resetting your system to OW, you can't solve this by yourself in the dark.

[waterwoman]

shame - I have never been involved in a PA. I can't really offer advice on that but the fact that you are concerned about her is, iMO, a sign that you are a decent man. However the advice seems really clear from everyone on here.

 

But please reconsider IC to help with the sexual issues with your wife, regardless of whether you tell her about the A or not. It might be guilt that is stopping you having sex with her but all it will do long-term is make her unhappy and suspicious. Good luck x