I've damaged her beyond repair

[Mount]

WHEN I first read your opening post, why I have feeling that you are NOT genuinely expressing what you wrote out there? I feel like I am reading someone showing off his capbility to make a woman heartbroken for him, how mighty he is. But call me shallow-minded, I just give feedback after reading the post how I observe.

 

I know what I have done and I am also hurting more than she knows. I cant leave her like this its killing me.

[Mount]

Exactly, if the original poster did not contact his (x)OW he would not feel how "mighty" he is................so pathetic.

 

And if the OP REALLY does not want OW feeling sad like this, just simply divorce wife then marry OW, at least one of the women get satisfied and happy.

 

Excuses are just bull****, everyone knows that.

 

 

Drama is definitely high for a guy in his 50s. Who'd have thought. I find the histrionics somehow the biggest obstacle to you seeing reality Shame.

[dreamingoftigers]

WHEN I first read your opening post, why I have feeling that you are NOT genuinely expressing what you wrote out there? I feel like I am reading someone showing off his capbility to make a woman heartbroken for him, how mighty he is. But call me shallow-minded, I just give feedback after reading the post how I observe.

 

Honestly I see something different.

 

I see someone who oscillates between self-flagellation and conflict-avoidance who gets a tremendous sense of validation from being an emotional "fixer" of people. Or someone "trying to fix" at the very least.

 

Shame, do you know what your own emotional needs are?

What makes you happy?

 

I would bet my life savings ($3.42 and a chocolate bar wrapper I found innthe couch) that if you KNEW what made you happy and set relational and personal boundaries around that, you wouldn't have entered into an affair to begin with.

[Mount]

:eek::eek::eek: dreamingoftigers - were you addessing the content to me or the orginal poster?

 

BTW , that is so funny (your expression below in bold and underlined)

 

Honestly I see something different.

 

I see someone who oscillates between self-flagellation and conflict-avoidance who gets a tremendous sense of validation from being an emotional "fixer" of people. Or someone "trying to fix" at the very least.

 

Shame, do you know what your own emotional needs are?

What makes you happy?

 

I would bet my life savings ($3.42 and a chocolate bar wrapper I found innthe couch) that if you KNEW what made you happy and set relational and personal boundaries around that, you wouldn't have entered into an affair to begin with.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Mount

[dreamingoftigers]

:eek::eek::eek: dreamingoftigers - were you addessing the content to me or the orginal poster?

 

BTW , that is so funny (your expression below in bold and underlined)

 

Sorry if my post seemed disjointed.

 

I often post on my phone as I am doing other things and LS doesn't get along with LS very well, I often can't see my post in it's entirety unless I specifically preview it.

 

My first paragraph or so was in response to your statement. (not trying to be confrontational/argumentative just offering another perspective (albeit unsolicited).

 

After I wrote "Shame," I was referring to OP.

 

I don't tend to "out" other posters histories in threads that aren't theirs or when they aren't making reference to it themselves. So I wasn't calling you out (or discussing, or whatever) any historical (possible) affair-behaviour of yours in any way etc etc.

 

Hope this clarifies.

[Got it]

shame,

 

You stated that you have been married longer than the OW has been alive.

You also stated you have a different kind of love for your wife.

 

Please explain this, because as a former BW in a long term marriage, the way I read your post hurt my feelings.

 

BB, probably a great question for another thread.

[Mount]

Got it, you were not talking to me; Even you were, I just can not reconcile between what you wrote and my experience (mine is very simple, I am drama free person, doing EVERYTHING in discreet...LOL). I don't have time/interest to fix anyone else, meantime no interest to have anyone to "fix" anything in my life.

 

Sorry if my post seemed disjointed.

 

I often post on my phone as I am doing other things and LS doesn't get along with LS very well, I often can't see my post in it's entirety unless I specifically preview it.

 

My first paragraph or so was in response to your statement. (not trying to be confrontational/argumentative just offering another perspective (albeit unsolicited).

 

After I wrote "Shame," I was referring to OP.

 

I don't tend to "out" other posters histories in threads that aren't theirs or when they aren't making reference to it themselves. So I wasn't calling you out (or discussing, or whatever) any historical (possible) affair-behaviour of yours in any way etc etc.

 

Hope this clarifies.

[Pierre]

shame,

 

Thank you for your honest explanation!

 

However, from how you explained it, it sounds to me like a classic mid-life crisis.

 

But, it does go to show that even men who love their wife and marriage, are able to cheat.(which most OW do not want to accept or acknowledge)

 

People in good marriages have affairs all the time. If some OWs think otherwise they better do some reading on the subject.

[Got it]

Shame, just take a deep breath and be still. There are consequences to actions and I think you are learning that. It is nice that you are empathetic towards OW but please try and look at the big picture here. You are still stuck in the quagmire of your situation, I am assuming you want to move things forward, so you need to keep trudging through it. Keep putting one step in front of another and keep moving forward.

 

Please do IC, it will really help you figure out what you want in life and your relationships and how to express them properly. As hard as it is, we really have to heal ourselves when we are in pain, no one can truly do that for us. Focus on you and focus on making you a better, happier, healthier person.

[Pierre]

I am sure she will find a great guy who is her age and can keep up with her, who isn't cheating on his wife to be with her. Leave her alone so she can find that. You aren't it.

 

But, but, but------she was cheating too!

 

And no guy can keep up with a her. She will cheat on her next relationship too.

 

The OW needs to fix herself before trying to have another relationship.

[Got it]

People in good marriages have affairs all the time. If some OWs think otherwise they better do some reading on the subject.

 

How is the marriage good when one of the parties is cheating? That sounds like an oxymoron. Maybe a happy marriage but good doesn't seem to be the correct descriptor.

[dreamingoftigers]

Got it, you were not talking to me; Even you were, I just can not reconcile between what you wrote and my experience (mine is very simple, I am drama free person, doing EVERYTHING in discreet...LOL). I don't have time/interest to fix anyone else, meantime no interest to have anyone to "fix" anything in my life.

 

I'll try to explain it again. I see where you thought I was saying the above.

 

My first paragraph in that post was addressed to your "analysis" of Shame's behaviour. You said something along the lines of "powerful/gloating" (damn phone, I can't go back to check.)

 

I said "here's my perspective on how I see Shame."

 

Then I said "Shame - blah blah blah, what's the deal with you? I bet you wouldn't be in an affair if blah."

----------------------------------------------

MOUNT THIS WHOLE POST IS FOR YOU

 

So in the first part I _was_ addressing you. BUT I wasn't saying YOU were/are a "fixer." I was saying I think Shame's a "fixer-self-flagellator."

 

Than I addressed Shame directly.

 

 

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't trying to address your (potential) history at all. I think that would have been off-topic and kind of, well, rude to bring up anyone's history in a "call them out or analyze them" type way outside of their own thread OR in a thread where they are making reference to it specifically.

 

I know I've read your postings before, and I think I quite like you as a poster. I wouldn't presume to have the details of your history off of the top of my head though.

[Bailey14]

Pierre, I am sorry for being dense but, when one partner cheats on the other partner, the relationship is, by definition, not a good one. A good relationship is ALL about communication and when a decision is made to cheat, communication is deeply, deeply flawed. And here I speak as a BS.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh crap, Mount, you DID get it LOL.

 

There was a typo in your response so I thought I had to reiterate!

 

Where it said "even you did" I think you were trying to say "even IF you did."

 

LOL.

 

I was sitting here thinking, oh. Crap.

 

I'll try to explain it again. I see where you thought I was saying the above.

 

My first paragraph in that post was addressed to your "analysis" of Shame's behaviour. You said something along the lines of "powerful/gloating" (damn phone, I can't go back to check.)

 

I said "here's my perspective on how I see Shame."

 

Then I said "Shame - blah blah blah, what's the deal with you? I bet you wouldn't be in an affair if blah."

----------------------------------------------

MOUNT THIS WHOLE POST IS FOR YOU

 

So in the first part I _was_ addressing you. BUT I wasn't saying YOU were/are a "fixer." I was saying I think Shame's a "fixer-self-flagellator."

 

Than I addressed Shame directly.

 

 

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't trying to address your (potential) history at all. I think that would have been off-topic and kind of, well, rude to bring up anyone's history in a "call them out or analyze them" type way outside of their own thread OR in a thread where they are making reference to it specifically.

 

I know I've read your postings before, and I think I quite like you as a poster. I wouldn't presume to have the details of your history off of the top of my head though.

[Mount]

Lol............

 

 

oh crap, mount, you did get it lol.

 

There was a typo in your response so i thought i had to reiterate!

 

Where it said "even you did" i think you were trying to say "even if you did."

 

lol.

 

I was sitting here thinking, oh. Crap.

[Pierre]

How is the marriage good when one of the parties is cheating? That sounds like an oxymoron. Maybe a happy marriage but good doesn't seem to be the correct descriptor.

 

Have you ever considered the fact that cheaters cheat?

 

If I have to keep my current wife happy 24/7 so she does not cheat then there has to be something wrong. We are happy, but I know quite well I will not be able to keep her happy 24/7 for eternity. There will come a time when we will hit a low point. And if she is a cheater (I hope she is not) she will cheat.

 

But, cheaters come in other varieties. Many cheat before the wedding or during the honey moon. A cheater cheats. Is that hard to accept?

[Pierre]

Pierre, I am sorry for being dense but, when one partner cheats on the other partner, the relationship is, by definition, not a good one. A good relationship is ALL about communication and when a decision is made to cheat, communication is deeply, deeply flawed. And here I speak as a BS.

 

You are correct about communication, but to cheat one must be a cheater. One has to be dishonest to be able to cheat.

[Bailey14]

Of course the M is damaged BY the affair Bailey. That doesn't mean it was damaged before. Or that it's state caused the affair. Or that it was all long over but no one noticed (one of my favourite delusions).

 

A good marriage that instead of the H destructing himself by another means is harmed by an affair MAY be ruined. But the causality is the opposite of what you think. Literally replace the affair with alcoholism and then see if your proposition holds.

 

I get what you are saying but, I also don't know too many happy alcoholics, either.

[Gibson_Girl]

Dear Shame,

 

I'm sorry you're hurting and I'm sorry your xAP is hurting too. I feel more for her because like her, I'm now the xOW, and I made that choice to be the X.

 

She probably felt that since you stayed with her that you saw inherent value in your relationship and you'd eventually "see the light" and realize you loved her most, even though you were up front with her.

 

NO ONE likes to play second fiddle. No one. The pain of being #2 gradually increases with time and finally, reality hits and the affair bubble deflates; it's like your soul is being slowly and painfully extracted. You see your hopes and dreams (yes, she had them too) never coming true. Reality hits you right in the chest and it's devastating. Utterly. It's like a death.

 

For her sake, if you EVER loved her and weren't using her as a place keeper in your life/ heart, let her go. With your up-front mentality about not ever leaving your wife, you had to see that this woman loved you deeply.

Love her enough now to let her go and let her heal. As much as you hurt, magnify her pain by double. Why double? You have a happy wife to go home to, who does your xOW have to comfort her? No one.

 

As for you, find out why you needed to have an affair. Fix that about you so you don't hurt your wife or yet another woman with reckless abandon.

 

Move on and be good to yourself and those you love and take this as a life lesson.

 

GG, The OW

[Decorative]

How is the marriage good when one of the parties is cheating? That sounds like an oxymoron. Maybe a happy marriage but good doesn't seem to be the correct descriptor.

 

I wish you would read up on affair psychology.

 

It's not remotely an oxymoron.

 

It's why a happy marriage is no inoculation against cheating.

 

Maybe start with Glass, then followup with Pittman.

[Tenacity]

So you dumped him pronto when you knew he was married/not divorced/not really separated? Well then kudos if that's the case. Still true in many cases though.

 

When do you think that would become apparent, in a long term many year relationship? Do you think it was black and white, like he just told me that one day?

 

Yes, I dumped him when it became apparent to me. Later than it should have, for me. And much too late for your standards, based on your having no experience in the matter.

[KathyM]

If you care about your OW at all, you will leave her alone and stop tormenting her with this contact and breadcrumbs from you. If you love your wife more than you love yourself, you will give her the gift of reality and come clean with all of this. Contacting your OW will not help her to heal, it will only add to her pain. You seem to want her to have fond memories of you and leave the relationship with some romanticized feelings for you, but that's not going to happen. Even though you told her up front that you were not going to leave your wife, she still apparently expected more from you than to be just a fling. Do you know what will solve this dilema? Tell your wife the truth and apologize to her. She will either throw you out, in which case you will be free to pursue your OW, or she will forgive you and try to heal the marriage, in which case your focus will then be where it belongs--to help your wife to heal, and from this you can move forward. Right now, you are on the fence, dipping your feet in the OWs yard, and at other times in your wife's yard, but not willing to commit to jumping with both feet into either. Staying on the fence indefinately will only hurt both women and yourself. It will hurt your OW because you are teasing her with bits and pieces of your attention, kind of like reminding her what she can't have. It will hurt your wife because your emotional energy is being used up by another woman, and even if she doesn't know about the affair, she is still not getting your full attention and love that she deserves. NC with the OW, and honesty with the wife. THAT is the way to solve this dilema.

[JamesM]

I have read all of your threads and find them interesting. If I were a BS, then I would be furious at you. If I were an OW/OM, then I would be furious at you.

 

If I were a WS, then perhaps I would understand you.

 

As has been said more than a few times, leave the OW alone. Keep worrying about her and keep texting her...and I can almost guarantee based on my experiences that you will go back to her.

 

Yes, you think of HER more than you do your wife. I have yet to see a thread that talks about the concern and hurt you feel for your wife. Yes, you interject some comments, but you have not devoted a whole thread to how you are rebuilding your marriage. I don't remember a thread about how you have damaged your marriage and your wife. I don't think you have moaned about all of the hurt you have caused your wife.

 

I have yet to read how you have told your wife.

 

What I do read about is your sadness at leaving the affair. I now read about your sorrow for causing the OW so much pain. I hear how you want the OW to be happy again. I see how you want to comfort the OW while she goes through the pain of divorce.

 

I only wish I could read how you are wishing that you had a strong relationship with your wife. I would like to read how you smile when you think of her instead of how you smile when you think of your OW.

 

I doubt you will tell your wife, and honestly, I don't think I could either. The pain that will be caused will be huge.

 

However, I think the pain that you are worried about if you tell is not your wife's but your own. The pain you worry about because of the damage you caused the OW is your own and not hers.

 

You want your world to be happy again.

 

You have NOT damaged her beyond repair. Odds are that her tears and pain you heard were from the freshness of you contacting her again. It is likely that she was mending from you, and her emotions are a result of her pending divorce. It is quite possible that she doesn't want you for support but when you called her, the emotions of her divorce spilled over into her pain from your split with her.

 

If she is to move on, then you need to leave her alone.

 

Here is the big question: when she is divorced, will you be able to stay away from her knowing that she is available? Can you stay NC when you know that she is waiting for some guy to fill a void? Can you watch a new man step in the place of her husband? What will it be like to see a man her age happily walking with her and her laughing at his jokes? What will it do to you when you see his handsome younger face and body and know what she is doing to him?

 

Can you stand idly by and be happy in your marriage knowing that she is ripe and ready for your plucking once again?

 

While this thread is technically not about your wife, the reality is that this is all about your wife. Your attitude here reflects on what your true thoughts of you wife really are.

 

Personally, I do understand your feelings and confusion. It is tough to leave a woman who provides you with such excitement and return to a woman who simply is there...comfortable and secure. The thrills of a younger woman cannot be compared to the contentment of a older wife.

 

But the reality is...the wife will be much more of a comfort than the younger woman will ever be. Your wife understands you more than that OW does despite what it seems like. If that OW began living with you, then all of your quirks and weaknesses would be laid open to her. And she would then see what a life with an "old man" is like.

 

Move on and rebuild. Let her move on and rebuild. Yes, you have caused her damage, but think...she is just as guilty for her pain. It could be that another man would have been there if you were not. You are special, but not that special. You are wonderful but not that wonderful. She needs support but from someone who loves her, accepts her and can be faithful to her.

 

And you, sir, are not that man. I mean none of this to be harsh. I am simply trying (as a man your age) to point out the futility of your thinking. I don't fault you for it, because I could easily be you. I simply am trying to show you an objective POV from someone who isn't as emotionally involved as you are.

 

I do hope this all works out for you...and your family.

[Tenacity]

Interesting how so many of us are telling this MOM that his MOW is responsible for her own pain, yet few ever say to a woman on here that she is responsible for her own pain (what you're saying to this OW if she were here). So men can be told to man up and everyone is responsible for their own pain but if you say that to an OW directly that's "letting him off the hook". Odd. Is it a gender double standard or just that it's always the responsibility of the one who is not here? Be that BS or MM.

 

I think neither shame nor his OW owe each other any apology or guilt or a spare thought of concern. Each of them is responsible for exactly the situation they find themselves in.

 

Please get over it already, MFH. LadyGrey said it well.

[dreamingoftigers]

Meh I see little of it. I dont believe you can change others but you can express an opinion. I don't see much encouragement of it either. I see a lot of OW blame shifting to MM (or worse BS). And MM do that too but there are fewer here.

 

Honestly in the MOW and MOM situations, the MP holds all of the cards.

 

Often OW and OM who haven't experienced marriage etc. often can't see the full picture.

 

Yes to you and I it "should" make "logical" sense that becoming involved with someone who is married is a disaster and travesty of honesty in the vast majority of cases.

 

It seems though that so many people were raised without relational guidance or with highly-romanticized relational guidance. I find many OW/OM seem to fall for the same textbook lines over and over or believe in the power of the attraction overcoming the risk of the relationship. It rarely works that way.

 

Most OW/OM that are single pretty well realize in the aftermath that they didn't get what they bargained for and for a lot it is a learning experience. For others they repeat until they learn or confront their issues. Sone never learn and keep ending up in addictive/radical relationships and can't see what the problem is.

 

But when it comes to MOW/MOM/MW/MM I personally believe that there is a much higher level of knowledge and accountability because they often wouldn't tolerate or accept the same behaviour from their partner and yet they find a way to excuse it in themselves. They know what a marriage is. They know what they are investing their life in and have a pretty clear idea of what they are risking and destroying too.

 

Most of us know that there is a very different level of investing in dating and marriage. Most OW are younger than MM and have not been married or cheated on in a marriage so they can't see the full scope of what they are doing. MOW, whole other story.