Let him go

[Got it]

I'm a MM that just had the A end 3 months ago. We were in the same spot as you. I too loved my OW with all my heart. She was married when we started and then got a divorce.

 

But I too, didn't move fast enough and leave. I had doubts and concerns from leaving to be with the OW to the issues of leaving the M. But no matter what he really feels about you, the fact that he is going to the unknown and leaving a secure world to an unsure world with you and that is a tough and paralyzing decision that most men won't make. I had huge concerns on both sides. We run to what we know to feel secure and that is usually with the W. No matter what the reason everyone is right, us MM don't leave.

 

My poor OW was waiting for me. I felt horrible. I wished I had the balls to leave as I did love her as well. But it doesn't matter in the end I didn't do it. And neither will your guy.

 

Today she is with a single guy and loving her new life. I am crushed and still wish we could have been somehow been together. But in reality if she came back to me today......I probably still wouldn't have left when push comes to shove. The difference between the fog of the relationship and reality.

 

Whats I am sorry you weren't able that your actions and emotions didn't line up. I think this is more common with men than women though. I think, especially when one enters into an affair you have to think two steps ahead of what the end goal is in mind and having a reasonable idea of how to make it reality. And ignoring the concept of the fog, just in the general sense of people who are in control of their lives, active participants, or people who tend to be observers and passive participants. I think this is common in many individuals not just those in affairs.

 

I was a MOW, I left my marriage in weeks as that was my game plan well prior to the affair. Your story was my concern with my MM as well. What I learned is I cannot control someone else. He laid out a plan but you don't know if it is fantasy or reality until the rubber meets the road. It did take, with him as well, losing me to recognize how much I meant to him. Luckily for us, he did implement change quickly enough to get me back but he ran a very good chance of losing me if he waited much longer.

 

I recommend for you, it seems like you are still fence sitting if even in your head. You are not where you would desire to be presumably with your whole heart but are kind of falling the path of least resistance. Take charge of your life and make it the one you are in 100% whatever that may mean. If you are in your marriage, then be in your marriage 100%. If not, make a change. Being alone is not as scary as it seems. And knowing that you are being true to yourself is a very satisfying feeling. You no longer on the outside looking in on your life. You are smack dab in the middle of it, living in the present, and no longer living any of it in your head.

[ComingInHot]

Soni;

 

I have been trying to put into type how to AK this w/out sounding offensive. I don't think I can so please know I am completely sincere in my curiosity & no intention of being mean okay.??.

 

Isn't it a little creepy that you are SO intertwined that you DO have so much intimate knowledge about a MM & his W?

 

It would creep me out if H , his W, friends etc talked to me about the M.

[pinecome41]

Another one jumping to conclusions again. NO NOT BECAUSE HE TOLD ME SO ASSHAT, because I've been in contact with not only him but with the wife, as well as mutual friends, as well as many other things that are blatantly obvious. In fact, in recent news, (according to the wife herself) they are on the brink of divorce.

 

You guys are really making this board a crappy place to post.

 

Quit effing assuming things, quit jumping to conclusions & being catty when you don't have all the facts. Seriously there would be more posters still here if some of you didn't thread jack & act like bitter bettys.

 

Quit assuming you know everything, if you don't, ask politely or read between the lines sometimes.

 

 

 

Thnx for this. I know my love may have told some lies to me, but he had his reasons.

 

We talked last night, and I told him that I knew he had lied to me. He apologized and we had it out. For now, he feels like he needs to be with his W so that he can give his son a good home, but we are making our plans for when his son is a little older and it's the right time to end the M.

 

I never meant for any of this to happen. If I could their M would be over and no one would be hurt, but is she gets hurt when they D, then so be it. I need to come first.

 

She's a cold fish anyway, and he'd be so much happier with me and she would be happier with someone else too. She may be a nice person, but they don't have the love, passion and great sex that we do. We really are soul mates, and if I have to wait for a little while to be with him, it will be worth it. The love we have makes the waiting okay.

[Got it]

Pine, it is not a comparison of which woman is better. Please don't lose yourself in that line of logic as both will come out the loser. You are not responsible for his happiness as neither is she. He is responsible for it.

 

I looked at things like this, if he was with me with all my wonderfulness then it must mean he has great taste so she must equal that as well. Please don't make her your focus or your belief that she is the obstacle in the way of what you want. He is your obstacle and he is the one that is where he wants to be. He is where he is choosing to be. Please see that, feel that, know that. For whatever reason it may be that is the reality of it.

 

She is not your concern. He is. And he is the one that is standing in the way of what you desire for your future. We can't control other people and we all may be in alignment or we may not and that is just life. Look at what you have today, decide that if the present is making your happy and giving you want your want and make decisions based on the pieces you can control.

[jwi71]

Thnx for this. I know my love may have told some lies to me, but he had his reasons.

 

We talked last night, and I told him that I knew he had lied to me. He apologized and we had it out. For now, he feels like he needs to be with his W so that he can give his son a good home, but we are making our plans for when his son is a little older and it's the right time to end the M.

 

I never meant for any of this to happen. If I could their M would be over and no one would be hurt, but is she gets hurt when they D, then so be it. I need to come first.

 

She's a cold fish anyway, and he'd be so much happier with me and she would be happier with someone else too. She may be a nice person, but they don't have the love, passion and great sex that we do. We really are soul mates, and if I have to wait for a little while to be with him, it will be worth it. The love we have makes the waiting okay.

 

I'm sorry to see you have chosen, again, this role as AP.

 

You, however briefly, got a glimpse of his W and himself as they truly are - because guess what I NEVER do with my W- yeah, shopping. Not happening. My W has friends for that sorta crap - I ain't going (not that she would WANT me there anyway - Im rambling). Yet there HE was shopping with his W. Believe me - this means MORE than you think.

 

You also saw her demeanor and attitude. Please, instead of me quoting it, go back and see how you yourself described her. Does that sound like a cold fish? Did she strike you then as this emotionless and passionless woman? That's not the impression I got from YOUR words.

 

You have cold hard undeniable PROOF he lied. And that's ok for you. Which is sad really. Because this wasn't some small little white lie he told you - it was a huge freakin' whopper of a lie. The whole D-day and I'm leaving routine. But you excuse it with a dismissive wave of your hand - he had a reason to lie you say. Yes, he did - but not for the reason he told you (which I strongly suspect is also a lie).

 

I'll end with a question.

 

Do soul-mates lie to each other?

Edited February 15, 2013 by jwi71
omitted a word

[JamesM]

Thnx for this. I know my love may have told some lies to me, but he had his reasons.

 

What reasons are good? You know he lies to his wife....you know he lies to you. How do you know he is being truthful now?

 

Sadly, you don't.

 

We talked last night, and I told him that I knew he had lied to me. He apologized and we had it out. For now, he feels like he needs to be with his W so that he can give his son a good home, but we are making our plans for when his son is a little older and it's the right time to end the M.

 

Has he set a date when he will leave? Is it simply a day in the future? Why does he need to be with his wife for his son?

 

She's a cold fish anyway, and he'd be so much happier with me and she would be happier with someone else too.

 

Truthfully, you don't know this. Your MM has lied to you already. If his wife is shopping with him, then you know that they spend time alone together. As JW said, my wife and I spend time together because we enjoy it, and not because we have to. We do shop together, but I would rather shop alone as would she.

 

They may be happier than you think.

 

She may be a nice person, but they don't have the love, passion and great sex that we do.

 

And you know this how? From the MM...who has lied to you already? Good reasons not to tell you that he and his W have good sex and passionate lovemaking would be....he won't keep you and have passionate sex with you.

 

We really are soul mates, and if I have to wait for a little while to be with him, it will be worth it. The love we have makes the waiting okay.

 

It is good for you that you can be patient. It is even better for him that you are patient.

 

Sad thing is...you showed him that he can lie and get away with it. And as JW said, this wasn't a small lie but a whopper. This should have been a break of the complete trust you had in him.

 

I feel for you. If you read my many posts on here, then you will see that I defend OWs as well as MM. I am not trying to be harsh to you. I simply hope that you see this realistically. I am afraid of the emotional pain that may be in your future. Hopefully not, but the signs are there.

[scatterd]

You already have evidence that he has lied. He has you right were he wants you. There for him to feel a void that can be fixed. His excuse is the same line that allot of MM use. Before you know it his son will be older and than he will tell you another line. Do you really want to waist your time with this man? Their is so many single men out there to choose from. This man is married he has a child if he truly wanted to leave he would. It does not make since to wait until his son is older why so he will remember everything. Think about this do you want to be with a man that cheats and even if he did leave her he could turn around and do the same thing to you. This shows how he handles problems, he doesn't. If he cant solve his problems with his wife why would you be any different. You may think his wife is a cold fish, and so on

but she has to have something or he would not of married her. You are not acting maturely by attacking her what has she done to you? Your going to have more problems then you think if the word gets out. I saw a post today where the wife discoverded her husbands affair.She outed them to the whole town and family. No one is talking to her she has been shun. Read that one it may open your eyes. I hope you decide to do the right thing and end this you have to many years ahead of you.

Edited February 15, 2013 by scatterd

[MissBee]

to my love's W

 

My love told me that you had a D Day. He told me your cried and begged him to stay and give your M one more chance. You made him feel guilty for wanting to me with me. So he stayed. I know he would rather be with me. He's told me he's miserable with you and wants to be with me. Why don't you let him go? You know he doesn't love you anymore? I'm sorry he hurt you, but your M is over. Set him free so we can have a life together. As long as you hold on to him and your M, guilt will keep him tied to you. I love him, he loves me and you need to accept that and move on so we can have our love and be together full time.

 

Hi pinecome,

 

At the end of the day, someone's guilt isn't the fault of another. Many people divorce or breakup and it is not mutual. If your MM wants to be with you, he has to choose to end his marriage, even if his wife doesn't want him to. She isn't required to make it easy for him by not crying, neither is she holding him there. She is free to want him and feel how she feels....he is also free to acknowledge it gently and move on. I am afraid that you're attributing you not being together to her wrongfully, versus seeing how he is choosing this.

 

What kind of person stays with someone out of guilt? If he doesn't want to be the "bad guy" HE has to overcome that...not her. I didn't read all the replies, so sorry if you've answered this, but how certain are you that he indeed told her and she indeed cried and begged him and so on? Just asking...because many married people have distorted this. Just like they may not want to be the "bad guy" to their spouse, they also don't want to hurt their AP and feel badly about doing so, so sometimes spin things in a way that makes it seem like they're not the ones choosing/not choosing..but other forces, their spouse, etc is making them stay put.

[pteromom]

We talked last night, and I told him that I knew he had lied to me. He apologized and we had it out. For now, he feels like he needs to be with his W so that he can give his son a good home, but we are making our plans for when his son is a little older and it's the right time to end the M.

 

***head explodes***

 

Wow, he really has you exactly where he wants you. Now he gets to have affair sex for several more YEARS without disrupting his marriage and real life.

 

You are being played for a fool here. PLEASE do not put your life on hold waiting for him. There is a man out there who will give you 100% of his heart instead of dangling like a carrot. There is a man out there who will marry you and have babies with you and never lie to you. Do not settle for this man who is content with wasting your youth.

[MissBee]

Look, I feel bad that his W is hurt, but I didn't hurt her. Their M was dead long before I showed up, and she knows that. I don't really care too much what her side is. That's between them. I just know I love him and hope she can get her mind around that soon.

 

I know he didn't lie to me about it. Why would he have to lie? He loves me, and knows I love him and that whenever he wants to, he can be together full time. Why would he beg her to stay when he loves me and wants to be with me? Why wouldn't he do that unless she begged him not to?

 

And why would he do it EVEN IF she begged him not to?

 

I think that's the point many are making.

 

That married men who WANT to leave....leave.

 

Do their wives cry? Are children involved? Is it difficult? Yes...but they still do it.

 

So your idea that she is making him stay is flawed. She can't stop him from seeing his child, if you all live in America. If she can "make him" stay...then you have his "heart" but that's about it. You don't have his commitment and he has no balls.

 

I am also confused...he was going to break up with her and then go to your house to plan your future immediately after? This doesn't make sense. That was a horrible plan and I'm not surprised that he ended up calling you to say he wasn't coming to do any such thing. I think a man SERIOUS and MATURE who is actually planning to leave and have a future with another would have 1) Concretely discussed and planned for this future beforehand and not directly after they tell their wife and 2) After telling their spouse they would expect there would be lots of drama and things to work out and would set enough time to do ALL of that, and would not expect that they would just say it and then leave.

 

Pinecome...I know you love him and all of that but please think about this. Also...don't you think it was unrealistic to expect he should tell his wife and she would just say "Thanks for letting me know. Enjoy your new life." and then he'd just come be with you THE SAME NIGHT? Did you really expect that? I think this is why some have asked your age because it seems a bit incredulous that adults would think things are so easy and work like that.That part especially leads me to believe your MM said this to you on a whim, knowing no such thing would happen, and then got home and of course it didn't happen and he just said I told her, she is making me stay...sorry. When all along, of course that was a bad plan...it wasn't even a plan at all.

[sweet_pea]

Did she really call me that name, for simply asking how she knew what she knew? What a classy gal. Completely rude and uncalled for. She really has no place calling me such a name considering her actions.... but let me not go there. I'm sorry for threadjacking, ma'am!

 

Anyways....

 

Pine, I feel sorry for you. Honestly. The MM has you wrapped so tightly around his finger. He hasn't left yet. So are you willing to wait, for however many years until he does? You're willing to waste your youth on a man that has shown that when push comes to shove (the encounter at the store), you will always be his "friend"/ secret? Why? Why are you so willing to settle on a future that is no where near definite?

Edited February 15, 2013 by sweet_pea

[Fallen Petals]

Thnx for this. I know my love may have told some lies to me, but he had his reasons.

 

We talked last night, and I told him that I knew he had lied to me. He apologized and we had it out. For now, he feels like he needs to be with his W so that he can give his son a good home, but we are making our plans for when his son is a little older and it's the right time to end the M.

 

I never meant for any of this to happen. If I could their M would be over and no one would be hurt, but is she gets hurt when they D, then so be it. I need to come first.

 

She's a cold fish anyway, and he'd be so much happier with me and she would be happier with someone else too. She may be a nice person, but they don't have the love, passion and great sex that we do. We really are soul mates, and if I have to wait for a little while to be with him, it will be worth it. The love we have makes the waiting okay.

 

There is never a convenient or easy time to end a marriage. There will always be a reason for him not to do it. And he can plan in his mind all he likes what he "would" do if he "could" but the bottom line is this - on D-day he will be face to face with his W and all his walls will come tumbling down. If a man says you are his #1 but never puts you first then he's not being honest with you or with himself. xMM called me his queen - said he'd never loved a woman like he loved me, never experienced the passion we had together and never met anyone who challenged him to think and identify his emotions the way that I did. He had never told another woman besides his W that he loved her, but told me within a month of having met me - he said he just knew. There was something about me. I could go on and on with the ways he professed love, the life he described us living, the house rules and ways we could and would tackle this common married couple issue or that one, what the kids would call us, etc etc etc. After D-day we had one conversation where his W wasn't around for it, where he could speak openly to me about how he felt. He said this was one of the hardest things he had ever done - letting me go. He said if she'd reacted differently he would've left. I told him that didn't make sense and ended speaking about it then. I realized at that moment that anything less than her kicking him out and telling him never to return would have provided the same results - him going back into counselling with her again and working on the marriage post A again. A mutual friend believes he'll repeat this cycle until he's too old to gain new APs and will be a lonely man filled with regrets - I choose to try to believe he will repair the damage and find a way to be happy - with or without his W. I truly loved him and I believe he truly loved me - but he is with her and I'm slowly realizing how little I allowed myself to be valued.

 

I would say this much - make sure your life is built in such a way that if he disappears from it you are going to be ok.

[SoleMate]

The other day I was out shopping and I saw my love out shopping in the same store. I thought he was alone, so I went over and said hi and started talking to him.

 

The next thing I know, his W came over and he introduced me to her as a friend from work.

This info is important.

 

1) MM and BW go shopping together. That is a normal activity for a married couple and it tends to indicate that they are not estranged.

 

2) MM did not acknowledge you to his BW. He was in public and he acknowledged his W to you but not vice versa. She is primary, you are not.

[MissBee]

This info is important.

1) MM and BW go shopping together. That is a normal activity for a married couple and it tends to indicate that they are not estranged.

 

2) MM did not acknowledge you to his BW. He was in public and he acknowledged his W to you but not vice versa. She is primary, you are not.

 

This!

 

Don't listen to his words. You got an opportunity to see with your own two eyes what was what. Of ALL "obligatory activities" a man in his "vestigial marriage" has to perform...shopping is not one! Many men don't even like shopping when they are happily dating, so it gives reason to pause when this supposedly unhappy man who told his wife recently he wants a divorce/has an OW and then she guilted him into staying is out and about shopping. Even if he was staying with her for guilt, I doubt he would be going shopping. He would be resentful and do the bare minimum- only really required things. You yourself didn't see MM looking pained/bored/upset/annoyed. He had no clue you'd be there and you got a glimpse of his normal wife, with a wife who did not look like she forced him to be there either and they seemed like a normal happy couple, and you were introduced as a work friend.

 

It's like so many OW before who have claimed yes MM is forced to have sex with his wife because she begged, MM is forced to go on this island vacation with his wife, MM is only taking his wife to dinner and the orchestra because he has to and the list goes on of denials of reality. Fact: people who are planning to divorce and are unhappily married and estranged, with one foot out the door certainly don't do these things. These things are in no way "necessary" but are tell-tale signs that the couple has a normal relationship. So if your MM has been painting the BS as horrible and his life as dismal and he can't wait to leave but then you see him shopping with the wife, planning trips, going out to dinner and a movie or orchestra...please believe you're being PLAYED!

 

I'm sure over time you will see the truth of this situation; but I don't think any of us can force it on you...esp if you saw for yourself and you still insist he wants to be with you and "had his reasons" for lying. I think it's a hard position for you to be in. But if you're in your late twenties, it's time for you to learn that some of what you think about love/relationships is faulty. Better to learn now than continue forever with these flawed beliefs. I'm sure the stark truth will make itself clear to you soon and when it does you'll learn and grow from this experience.

[truthbetold]

I'm afraid I agree with Spice and a few others who have called "Troll"

No one is this deluded and self absorbed.

 

If she is - no one here can help her anyway. My money is on she's just here to start a war on the board and to waste the time of others.

 

See this is what I don't understand. Some of us are on neither side of the "fence" and just are people wanting to help others if they can.

 

I can maybe understand how someone who does sit firmly in an OW or BS camp "may" get feelings stirred, but for many of us I don't think the blips of time we stop by are getting us that bent out of shape by what is happening. If you can help someone out, great it make that world a little nicer. If you can't oh well, but at least you tried.

 

So what does an OP that is a troll have to gain by people fighting and getting worked up? If their life is so sad/pathetic that they have to make up stories to create a disturbance what do they get out of that?

 

I can see how this OP does sound very self absorbed, however if it was to tick people off, wouldn't the "story" be that he's leaving for her and how grand it is. Why make up a story that she's settling for scraps for who knows how many more years? It doesn't exactly paint the OP in any sort of desirable light. It paints her as a loser who can't do any better in life. So how would someone get their rocks off on being thought of like that?

[spice4life]

See this is what I don't understand. Some of us are on neither side of the "fence" and just are people wanting to help others if they can.

 

I can maybe understand how someone who does sit firmly in an OW or BS camp "may" get feelings stirred, but for many of us I don't think the blips of time we stop by are getting us that bent out of shape by what is happening. If you can help someone out, great it make that world a little nicer. If you can't oh well, but at least you tried.

 

So what does an OP that is a troll have to gain by people fighting and getting worked up? If their life is so sad/pathetic that they have to make up stories to create a disturbance what do they get out of that?

 

I can see how this OP does sound very self absorbed, however if it was to tick people off, wouldn't the "story" be that he's leaving for her and how grand it is. Why make up a story that she's settling for scraps for who knows how many more years? It doesn't exactly paint the OP in any sort of desirable light. It paints her as a loser who can't do any better in life. So how would someone get their rocks off on being thought of like that?

 

The quoted is the troll's point because this the OW/OM forum. It's not about the OP; it's about a message they are trying to convey to people posting. They would be posting that they were successful in getting the MM/MW to divorce for them in the Infidelity forum.

 

The name says it all IMHO. Play on words. Maybe they are trolling someone here thinking they can trigger them. It's happened before. I've learned to ignore the trolls and see it for what it is...

Edited February 16, 2013 by spice4life

[awkward]

He is not leaving. He probably will never leave. If you are ok with him telling you "little" lies, I think you will be ok. But if you ever decide to take off the rose colored glasses, you will be in for a world of hurt.

 

This man isn't special. Your relationship isn't special. And his wife didn't sound like a cold fish. She sounded like a married woman out shopping with her husband. Her husband sounded like a douche though.

[truthbetold]

The quoted is the troll's point because this the OW/OM forum. It's not about the OP; it's about a message they are trying to convey to people posting. They would be posting that they were successful in getting the MM/MW to divorce for them in the Infidelity forum.

 

The name says it all IMHO. Play on words. Maybe they are trolling someone here thinking they can trigger them. It's happened before. I've learned to ignore the trolls and see it for what it is...

 

Thanks for the explanation. That seems really cruel to just try to hurt faceless strangers for kicks. I didn't really realize that there was potential to hurt someone else with a thread like that. I just thought it made that one (the OP) sound very immature and insecure. I agree with Cautionary Tale though, if on the small chance it is true, the OP likely will not listen based on what she wrote.

[awkward]

The thing is it could be true. And even if it isn't true it could help someone. IMO a lot of these threads are unbelievable to me. For instance. the three MM threads on the OW forum home page. These men blow my mind. Maybe they are true stories. But even if they are not, I'd bet at least one women lurking has decided not to get in an affair or dumped their lying MM.

 

My point is if the self-entitled MM threads are real then there is a chance that there are some OW like the OP. Most likely not very many, but some.

[awkward]

I didn't really realize that there was potential to hurt someone else with a thread like that.

 

And I agree that this has happened. People do start threads or make replies just to hurt another poster. Some make threads to hurt their MM that read here. But we can never know for sure that the person asking for help isn't really asking for help.

[JamesM]

The thing is it could be true. And even if it isn't true it could help someone. IMO a lot of these threads are unbelievable to me. For instance. the three MM threads on the OW forum home page. These men blow my mind. Maybe they are true stories. But even if they are not, I'd bet at least one women lurking has decided not to get in an affair or dumped their lying MM.

 

My point is if the self-entitled MM threads are real then there is a chance that there are some OW like the OP. Most likely not very many, but some.

 

This is how I treat every thread. Assume the person is real. At the least it may still benefit someone.

 

If this person IS real and is now being called a troll, then we have chased away someone seeking help.

 

When I first came here, I remember one poster calling me a troll on a thread, and it hurt. The problem was real and I was not intending to do anything but get advice.

 

Lets assume the same thing here. If you think this is a troll, then don't waste your time. For those of us who assume the best, we will continue to offer advice.

[CautionaryTale]

This is how I treat every thread. Assume the person is real. At the least it may still benefit someone.

 

If this person IS real and is now being called a troll, then we have chased away someone seeking help.

 

When I first came here, I remember one poster calling me a troll on a thread, and it hurt. The problem was real and I was not intending to do anything but get advice.

 

Lets assume the same thing here. If you think this is a troll, then don't waste your time. For those of us who assume the best, we will continue to offer advice.

 

You're right, after 9 pages of thoughtful, insightful, time consuming input from many MANY different people and seeing ZERO change in thought process though, it's very disheartening.

[JamesM]

You're right, after 9 pages of thoughtful, insightful, time consuming input from many MANY different people and seeing ZERO change in thought process though, it's very disheartening.

 

I understand how you feel.

 

BUT...as one who posts my thoughts on threads no matter how they sound, it may appear that the OP isn't making changes. It may be that in a day or two or a week, she will post how this thread helped her make changes.

 

Even still as was said, others are reading the input here. They may not have the courage to post their stories, but some of the advice given here may be helpful to them.

 

You never know who you help. Post as if you could help someone.

 

Weird but you may even help yourself in some way.