Stubborn husband might leave me

[Yasuandio]

I do want it more than anything!

 

Just for the record I CAN DO THIS!!

 

 

My dear, the record already speaks for itself, I'm sorry to say. Review it, and re-consider.

[Yasuandio]

Im making my mind up im doing this as i see no other options.

 

 

I pray its not to late! I think if in dec he wasnt sure that was just a few months ago maybe he can change his mind again.

 

Question for divorcees? Did any of you feel in your gut the other spouse wouldn't file and they still did?

 

My heart just doesnt see him filing... Leaving yes but not filing. Maybe im crazy!

 

I think as long as hes still in the house and we are married there is a chance!

 

So what i need aside from feedback on this letter is help with daily contact with him. Im always home first. Normally the evening is hard because we both just sit around! Do i sit on couch with him or find stuff to do? Its hard to find things every evening to do to appear busy but some nights im just tired and dont feel like doing stuff.

 

Filing is a big azzed hasle. Believe when you see it. And even then, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen. And if it does, it doesn't mean you can't get back together. Nothing is perminent.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Yasuandio

[Mack05]

OK. I simplifed the letter, my additions are in caps. I especially deleted the "I will change" parts. Because people do not change - and he won't believe it anyway. Jenny is who she is - and she is responding to rejection. I made that point too - in an apology format. I mean I'm not criticzing the letter - but I don't think this ios the kind of guy that will read a lot of eloquint detail. I really emphasied accepance of what he says he wants. I think that is important. And also a suggestion at the end - that someone needs to go. Take?

 

I like it Yas. Jen take the letter (or parts of it) that works for you from myself, Yaz and Tojaz. Think the four of us sound like a members from a music band! :-)

 

Don't agree that people can't change. I am proof. I was a nightmare in my 20's. I would argue and not listen. Blow my top completely. In my 30's I wasn't a lot better. I was single, hot headed, judgemental moron. At 36 and single I decided I am the problem not my ex's. Before it was all them, they were at fault.

 

Now I argue in a totally different way. Bar one silly fight with my sister, I never lose it and always maintain control. If someone pushes my buttons, I leave the room and more often then not, the house. It took time, harsh honesty with myself and the key thing -> being alone and reflecting but I did change. It can be done if you really want to.

[Yasuandio]

I like it Yas but people can change. I am proof. I was a nightmare in my 20's. I would argue and not listen. Blow my top completely. In my 30's I wasn't a lot better. I was single, hot headed judgemental moron. At 36 and decided I am the problem not my ex's. Before it was all them, they were at fault.

 

Now I argue in a totally different way. Bar one silly fight with my sister, I never lose it and always maintain control. If someone pushes my buttons, I leave the room and more often then not, the house. It took time, harsh honesty with myself and the key thing -> being alone and reflecting but I did change. It can be done if you really want to.

 

Listen dude, all power to ya! You are an exception. I am trying to change my reactionary tendencies, paranoia, and impulsiveness - and it is very difficult. I just have such trouble roping myself in "in the heat of the moment." The "Shut up" technique has been helping. As well as the not talking, and listening carefully technique. But, man, it is hard.

[Mack05]

Listen dude, all power to ya! You are an exception. I am trying to change my reactionary tendencies, paranoia, and impulsiveness - and it is very difficult. I just have such trouble roping myself in "in the heat of the moment." The "Shut up" technique has been helping. As well as the not talking, and listening carefully technique. But, man, it is hard.

 

Yas I mentioned 'change' because I would want my partner to know I am actively looking at working on my flaws while we are apart. I think if a relationship breaks up, I am now a firm believer in self improvement. Thinks its better than analyzing the crap out out of your ex..

 

If Jenny gets a second chance she needs to bring something new to the table. Sadly he does too, but that is a battle for another day..

 

Whether Jenny can change, whether she can keep her cool for two weeks, let alone two months we shall see..The odds suggest no. But I want to believe!

Edited March 4, 2013 by Mack05

[Yasuandio]

Yas I mentioned 'change' because I would want my partner to know I am actively looking at working on my flaws while we are apart. I think if a relationship breaks up, I am now a firm believer in self improvement. Thinks its better than analyzing the crap out out of your ex..

 

If Jenny gets a second chance she needs to bring something new to the table. Sadly he does too, but that is a battle for another day..

 

Whether Jenny can change, whether she can keep her cool for two weeks, let alone two months we shall see..The odds suggest no. But I want to believe!

 

I am ok with the concept of "change," but I would call it "working on my flaws while we are apart" rather than "I am going to change." Sounds more convincing. Then, she might specify: "I really need to get my temper under control, think before I react, and this and that. These are the areas I really want to achieve improvement." Something like that.

 

Edit: Insert before the closing line - as it suggests you will now be apart.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Yasuandio

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I know about the space but this is what we can do now!

 

 

I know nobody thinks i can do it but i can and i will

[Mack05]

I know about the space but this is what we can do now!

 

I know nobody thinks i can do it but i can and i will

 

Good for you Jenny. Remember two things. Always back yourself. Doesn't matter if we are not sure if you can do it. In life having self belief goes a long way. No matter what happens you will get anyone here saying "I told you so".

 

I may not be sure you can keep your cool for two months, but I still believe that you can save your marriage..

 

FYI I like Yas's post about 'working on my flaws' instead of using the word 'change'

Edited March 4, 2013 by Mack05

[Yasuandio]

Jenny, I will be praying for you. I must take some time away now. Please Mack and Tojaz take the torch, and carry on.

 

Honey, please understand. I am not abandoning you, I have an illness that is acting up. Be really, really calm, cool, and collected, no matter what. And remember, everything is going to be ok. I will come back when I can. Yas

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Yas i will keep u in my prayers as well! Thank you so much for your help! I wont let you down

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Ok Day 1 here:

 

Not much but when I came home John was here half asleep on couch! I immediately got into cleaning up house and I noticed the spot the dog threw up on hadnt come out of the carper so I got down and scrubbed the life out if it! John said did she throw up again? I said no but this spot didnt come out. I was sweet and gave a simple answer I was busy busy busy and he was watching espn but he put the news I like on because I always sit and watch him on the couch. I decided not today! Instead I chopped up a big salad and took care of some stuff around and I noticed I have way to many keys on my keychain ( its better to obsess over keys than him) and took 3 off that I have no clue what they open except I know John put them on there. So i ever so nicely said John, do you know what these keys are for? He said he didnt remember but thought one was to his tool box. I said ok well I dont need these here ya go. He looked surprised and i just gave him a sweet smile and went on to my busy business.

 

Hope im doing ok! After dinner I plan on working out in my room. I think i may leave the door open so he can see. I got nothing to hide :-)

 

Im not writing letter yet waiting for Tojaz to weigh in

Edited March 4, 2013 by Jennyfromtheblick

[Mack05]

Have you decided Jen what you are going to do about the letter?OOps didn't see the last part of your post..

Edited March 4, 2013 by Mack05

[tojaz]

Jenny, I've been thinking about your situation on my drive home today, when i read Macks letter this morning, I really liked it for the most part, but the more i thought about it and tried to put myself in Johns position and tried to imagine how it would be received, I don't see it being interpreted the way it was intended, the way we all have interpreted it here and I see him instead using it against you.

 

So, I took a page out of my own book and decided to try for a perspective change and tried to keep myself in Johns shoes as best I could based on what you have told me so far. I keep coming back to what I said about the path of least resistance and I think we need to level the playing field, if not tilt it in your favor.

 

What I'm thinking is that rather then the letter, just let it ride and keep working on keeping your cool (I really like what I read about day 1 by the way). Try and keep a pleasant and peaceful house for a week or so and then speak to your landlord about what it would take to get John off of the lease. Not actually doing it, but get all the facts straight and know whats involved. Most likely just both of your signatures releasing him and yours on an amended lease.

 

At that point you go to john and explain to him that he already knows that you don't want to be without him and want to salvage the marriage, but that you don't want him staying just to honor a lease, so you have all the information to release him whenever he likes with no penalties.

 

Its a gutsy move Jenny, but it removes the lease as a crutch for him to lean on as an excuse to stay and removes his ability to use his leaving as a threat, yet it doesn't have you agreeing to a divorce that your standing against or a trial separation which does not carry a good track record for reconciling. He could of course create another stall tactic, but that would tell you all you need to know as well.

 

Again, congratulations on your progress for Day1 and eagerly awaiting a successful Day 2.

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

Im not writing letter yet waiting for Tojaz to weigh in

 

By the way.... I'm flattered!!!

[Mack05]

Two different perspectives there Jenny. Really up to you how you want to proceed. No real right or wrong here. Just different opinions of people trying to help. I have never met Tojaz, but I know he would be a great man to go for a beer with. I have huge respect for the guy.

 

I would go with the letter, providing you are willing to stand by it. If you stand by it, he can't use it against you. For me it outlines your position CLEARLY and if he moves out, its the kind of thing you refer to again and again.

 

Right now I think he is confused by your behaviour. Move out (without saying a word), come back, blow up, then all nice. The letter clears that all up. It states your position, explains your behaviour and which way you want to move forward.

 

If you go with the letter, I would go sooner rather than later. As I said totally up to you.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Mack05

[Yasuandio]

You need me to break the tie.

 

I say DO BOTH. Tojaz, go over it. Narrow it down.

 

Do the letter, and shut up, keep up the good work you are doing - act independent - like you can handle this.

 

This is what you have in your head - for real: You will live the single life if that is the consequences of your actions, just as a murderer must accept the needle. This is life. Life is not always fair. You prefer the marriage, but you do not need John to survive. You want him to have what he desires. Why would you want a man that does not want to be with you, correct?, because you love him

 

Positive attitude - all the way, for real, it might come to that, so you may as well start adjusting your thinking, it is healthy to do this anyway, to become more independent of John. It is not a good thing to be so dependent on another person for your happiness - this is what many of us learn when we get divorced.

 

Then, wait a week or 2, and do EXACTLY what Tojaz says.

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Tojaz glad your flattered! You, Mack and sweet Yas have been my team and all your input means a great deal to me!

 

Im torn on the letter there are great parts that I think are so important and then there is the seperation which I am not 100% on board with.

 

With that being said your are correct on the lease needing just his and my signature. He is aware too but has refused to take his name off till its up citing he has no where to go.

 

Bringing this up imo just will sway the positive as Im sure he'll see it as me trying to kick him out again. Like he mentioned yesterday.

 

I do like the idea of waiting a week trying to go positive and maybe then the note?

 

I think I'm inclined to do that because lets face it like Mack said this note is pointless if my actions dont back it up. I think maybe being positive light and scarce for a week or two to lay the foundation then giving the note might give me more leg to stand on. He may be more inclined to believe what hes reading if he has actually already started seeing change.

 

Thoughts?

 

I gotta tell you I'm strong today!

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Dang you all were typing as I was!! Lol

[Mack05]

Jen sounds good to me..Good to see you so positive.

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Two different perspectives there Jenny. Really up to you how you want to proceed. No real right or wrong here. Just different opinions of people trying to help. I have never met Tojaz, but I know he would be a great man to go for a beer with. I have huge respect for the guy.

 

I would go with the letter, providing you are willing to stand by it. If you stand by it, he can't use it against you. For me it outlines your position CLEARLY and if he moves out, its the kind of thing you refer to again and again.

 

Right now I think he is confused by your behaviour. Move out (without saying a word), come back, blow up, then all nice. The letter clears that all up. It states your position, explains your behaviour and which way you want to move forward.

 

If you go with the letter, I would go sooner rather than later. As I said totally up to you.

 

True my behavior has been nutty.

[Yasuandio]

I like your proposal, Jenny - yes, the tone and promises in the letter don't exactly mesh with the context of the conduct, after yesterday.

 

I like show action like today's independence and maturity. I woulf not enter into any serious talk AT ALL. As it is your button pusher. If he tries to discuss, just say, "I really don't want to get into any serious discussion right now." Or "Let's keep the conversation light this evening, please." Then shift convo to matters about the household or praise about the work on the car.

 

Her is where your problem is going to be, maintaining. I have been running into this issue for years. The answer to maintaining is PRACTICE. Plan ahead - so you are not caught off guard, also have a back up plan. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, I think that's how the story goes. Night, night. Good luck. Yas

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I like your proposal, Jenny - yes, the tone and promises in the letter don't exactly mesh with the context of the conduct, after yesterday.

 

I like show action like today's independence and maturity. I woulf not enter into any serious talk AT ALL. As it is your button pusher. If he tries to discuss, just say, "I really don't want to get into any serious discussion right now." Or "Let's keep the conversation light this evening, please." Then shift convo to matters about the household or praise about the work on the car.

 

Her is where your problem is going to be, maintaining. I have been running into this issue for years. The answer to maintaining is PRACTICE. Plan ahead - so you are not caught off guard, also have a back up plan. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, I think that's how the story goes. Night, night. Good luck. Yas

 

So true Sista!!!! One day at a time for me! I'm trying to keep perspective! My dear died years ago, I've watched several struggle and pass and at the end of the day if I can make it through that I can make it through this. I sometimes am weak but it is NOT who I am. Had I ever been this way before John wouldnt of fallen in love with me. I let fear win now Im done Im kicking fear out of my life.

[tojaz]

Tojaz glad your flattered! You, Mack and sweet Yas have been my team and all your input means a great deal to me!

 

Im torn on the letter there are great parts that I think are so important and then there is the seperation which I am not 100% on board with.

 

With that being said your are correct on the lease needing just his and my signature. He is aware too but has refused to take his name off till its up citing he has no where to go.

 

Bringing this up imo just will sway the positive as Im sure he'll see it as me trying to kick him out again. Like he mentioned yesterday.

 

I do like the idea of waiting a week trying to go positive and maybe then the note?

 

I think I'm inclined to do that because lets face it like Mack said this note is pointless if my actions dont back it up. I think maybe being positive light and scarce for a week or two to lay the foundation then giving the note might give me more leg to stand on. He may be more inclined to believe what hes reading if he has actually already started seeing change.

 

Thoughts?

 

I gotta tell you I'm strong today!

 

I can tell your strong today Jenny, I like that!

 

On what you said about him only seeing it as you kicking him out. That's exactly what I'm trying to prevent. He's built himself a nice little paradox here Jenny. He doesn't wan't to leave because you'll say he abandoned you, You tell him it's ok and give him a pass, then your kicking him out. So he stays although he says he doesn't want to and wants to divorce, yet new cable channels and maintains your car and on and on. What does that tell you?

 

I tells me that he doesn't want to make a decision and is using the lease as something to do it for him. Its a stall tactic to allow him to ride the fence and not have to get his hands dirty. At least until the time is up. Your not kicking him out, your not trying to make him stay, your just removing what he's hiding behind so he has to face the situation. Lease is removed from the equation then there's nothing left, if he chooses out, he's out free and clear, and if he chooses in then it's out in the open. It isn't the outcome that has him hung up Jenny, it's him having to make the choice so he has done his best to shift that anywhere and everywhere he can.... even on you.

 

Like I said, I flat out love Macks letter (by the way Mack, if you ever find yourself in the colonies, I'll buy you that beer!) I like it so much I think he should write a fill in the blank version so it can be distributed to all the membership of LS for their own use, and it would help many of them. This situation isn't about you anymore though Jenny, it hasn't been for awhile. You can change all you want, say whatever you want, do whatever you want. John isn't going to acknowledge any of it, not because of you, but because of him and he will not face that until there isn't anything left for him to hide behind.

 

Of course as always that is just my take based on what is here and only one of us has any true knowledge of the man, all we can offer is insight, but as mack makes a good case as well and I'm not willing to bet your marriage on my theory either, I think it may be best to just concentrate on making those strides and see if we can string together a lot more of these lovely strong days and just show John consistency and see what else he gives you to go on before you plot your next move, after all, things seem pretty calm right now and I think you've earned yourself the break.

 

TOJAZ

[Absewarrior]

Jenny:

I have read up to now and what I have read saddens me...it is like watching a train getting ready to crash and not being able to avert my eyes. In trying so hard to "fight" for a man who punishes you and emotionally abuses you, you have lost yourself. From my viewpoint, this feels like you are harassing your husband because you are scared of being alone. He is right in everything he has said to you...had you left and tried to do things for yourself and actually had some respect for yourself and the truth you were trying to convey, he may have learned to respect and admire you later on. Yet, you played silly, immature games and tried to overanalyze this situation as though you had any say in this...you let him have your power when you let him emotionally confuse and sabotage your every move because of your guilt over the e-mails. I have known people who have committed murder who have had less punishment than you by this man. Forgive me for being blunt, but it is hard to watch you run this into the ditch over and over for a situation that is over. Maybe your marriage can be saved, but it isn't your call. You gave him your power and so he will have to be the one to save anything. Why would he though? You have harassed him...talked about your problems to his cop friends right in front of him, talked about him on this message board instead of respecting his decision to move on with his life because of your mistake. In the beginning of this thread, a few weeks back, I asked you to move on because I think he is unkind to you. The reason I did this was because pathetic begging has never won over a heart, and insane rantings has never made someone trust someone who betrayed them.

Leave. Harassing him will not end well. You are trying to force a situation on him that he does not want. Staying positive is a great idea....stay positive in the fact that you now have to take care of yourself and move on with your life. You are headed for divorce...no letter in the world is going to change his mind now. Everything you have done has only reinforced his concept of you as a betrayer and someone who does not respect him. I feel harrassed by what you have said and done to him...your neediness is unattractive at best and is bordering on maniacal. There is no man on earth who would want someone who says he is gay and storms and rages when things do not go the way she wants. It is frustrating...yes, but you had the chance to leave or ask him to leave because he is unfair and unpleasant to you. We do what works and him being a dickhead got him so much meek wifey stuff and walking on eggshells and emotional stonewalling...wow, it is painful to read.

I do not say this to hurt you. I know you are a girl, but now is not the time to throw tantrums and to hang on for dear life to someone who is doing his best to get over you and move on.

He is immature and very emotionally abusive, but instead of accepting that he may be wrong and needed to become healthy again and forgive you in his own time and way while you moved on with your life to become a better person for him or a future lover...you had to "change" his mind about something he was very firm to you on many, many occasions. In doing so...you lost yourself and that is what saddens me most of all. Read back your need for everyone here to tell you what to do...it is pathetic in so many ways. I know I will not be popular for saying this...but you needed to grow, not stay stagnant in a situation which took away your own spirit. The advice was well meant and some of it was quite good, but in the end the only advice you needed was to love yourself and stop sacrificing yourself and your self-esteem to a man who is obviously not well. Teen angst is how I would describe what you wrote about him....he is a teacher, not a child.

I can see all of this from his viewpoint and it isn't pretty. I also know your heart was in the right place, but in order to "save" your marriage, you have lost yourself and therefore you aren't emotionally available to be in a healthy relationship with him or anyone else.

Sorry if this is rough...I just can't stand to see you so delusional...it is painful to watch.

Good luck

AW

Edited March 5, 2013 by Absewarrior

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I can tell your strong today Jenny, I like that!

 

On what you said about him only seeing it as you kicking him out. That's exactly what I'm trying to prevent. He's built himself a nice little paradox here Jenny. He doesn't wan't to leave because you'll say he abandoned you, You tell him it's ok and give him a pass, then your kicking him out. So he stays although he says he doesn't want to and wants to divorce, yet new cable channels and maintains your car and on and on. What does that tell you?

 

I tells me that he doesn't want to make a decision and is using the lease as something to do it for him. Its a stall tactic to allow him to ride the fence and not have to get his hands dirty. At least until the time is up. Your not kicking him out, your not trying to make him stay, your just removing what he's hiding behind so he has to face the situation. Lease is removed from the equation then there's nothing left, if he chooses out, he's out free and clear, and if he chooses in then it's out in the open. It isn't the outcome that has him hung up Jenny, it's him having to make the choice so he has done his best to shift that anywhere and everywhere he can.... even on you.

 

Like I said, I flat out love Macks letter (by the way Mack, if you ever find yourself in the colonies, I'll buy you that beer!) I like it so much I think he should write a fill in the blank version so it can be distributed to all the membership of LS for their own use, and it would help many of them. This situation isn't about you anymore though Jenny, it hasn't been for awhile. You can change all you want, say whatever you want, do whatever you want. John isn't going to acknowledge any of it, not because of you, but because of him and he will not face that until there isn't anything left for him to hide behind.

 

Of course as always that is just my take based on what is here and only one of us has any true knowledge of the man, all we can offer is insight, but as mack makes a good case as well and I'm not willing to bet your marriage on my theory either, I think it may be best to just concentrate on making those strides and see if we can string together a lot more of these lovely strong days and just show John consistency and see what else he gives you to go on before you plot your next move, after all, things seem pretty calm right now and I think you've earned yourself the break.

 

TOJAZ

 

 

I think thats exactly what he is doing with the lease too, hiding behind it maybe even buying time with it. I think naturally he expected I would not be staying here if he leaves so maybe it be like a mutual leaving but I'm staying put. Sure finances wont be as good but I didnt get married to have things easy I got married for love. I was here before we married doing it on my own I make better money now so I will be ok!

 

My friend asked me yesterday why he hasnt filed she knows in we have a 90 cooling off period here so she finds it odd that for someone that protests divorce not to file now. Its really a mystery but my husband is a procrastanator.

 

His actions are conflicting! Last evening I noticed he had saved new files on our computer for our taxes. They were in a folder "taxes" which means not a thing but if I was leaving I wouldnt be created shared files on our pc now.

 

Him also saying I wont give him a divorce makes a great excuse for him never to file too. He'll simply say well Jen wont give me one so why bother. Lol seriously I see that being the case.

 

Its not funny really but I know he loves me deep down but he is a man who typically operates with his head not his heart. In our marriage he was heart driven but anywhere else hes all head and logic not emotional at all. I think like his cop friend said he is trying to convince himself he doesnt care and etc. im not going to make it easy for him anymore which is what my behavior thus far has done.

 

To close rest of evening was good. I exercised, organized drawers when I was around or near him I was happy and smiley. I played with the dog and laughed. But i didnt talk with him anymore i just let him be. :-)