Stubborn husband might leave me

[Yasuandio]

So you and the lease can be the bad guy instead of him.

 

 

That is a very interesting take. But as fascinating as it may seem, I'm not buying into it so fast.

 

On the contrary, his action regarding the lease (either follow through with his stated intent or not) is the move that only determines whether he stays in the domicile or not. This could be interpreted as a positive move for one of the partners or the couple; or a negative move for one of the partners or the couple. Only the future's history can hold that answer. Either decision by either party does not render either partner to be a good guy, bad guy, good girl, or bad girl.

 

He says he wants to be removed from the lease which takes a certain action, OR he's going to fail to take the action on the position he expressed in their conversation (and, if that is the case, it turns out he may not have been really serious when he stated his desire to extradite himself from the lease). Of course, if his actions fall into the later catagory, his credibilty greatly diminishes.

 

So many ways to look at this, Jenny! Only you know the true answer. And there is a way to find out - by pushing the envelope. But do you really want to know right now? That is the question. Yas

 

Edit: If I could have a dream come true in this situation, it would be Jenny coming to John with the lease, and John responding by saying: "there is no way I would leave you, Jenny." That is my wish. That he would treat you as you deserve to be treated - kindly, and lovingly. Honey, would that not make your dreams come true? I'm going to pray for such an outcome tonight, and every night.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Yasuandio

[Mack05]

Its been fun watching two people bicker back and forth on the subject of emotional maturity, and since my name was mentioned I figured I would just lay out what it is that I believe.

 

Tojaz I used to respect you as a poster, but like John is starting to annoy Jenny, you are starting to annoy me. Ok Trippi and I had a disagreement. Newsflash that happens on LS when people are passionate about a certain topic/poster. If we were emotionally immature as you suggested, our little spat would have went on for numerous pages. Trippi is a bright girl. I am a bright guy, it would have be an interesting back and forth. It stopped quickly cause both of us recognised that it is not going to help Jenny going forward.

 

I have to say your doing great Jenny, keep the updates coming, it's nice to log in to see some positive posts for a change.

 

Have you thought about going into politics? You should cause lately on this thread all you have done pander to the masses. Lately, you don't offer real solutions Tojaz (except when it comes to car repairs). All you have done is tell Jenny what she wants to hear. Sure anyone can do that.

 

I realize that Jenny needs the kind of support you are currently giving her -> Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir. How helpful this support will be when coming up with a solution to the problems facing her, is an entirely different question.

 

I believe that it is a waste of my time to try and guess what John is going to do because there is no way to verify that until he does it. There is no sense in dealing in absolutes when nothing is known. I don't think JOHN knows what will come until it comes

 

On the point bolded above. This is unacceptable behaviour for an adult in a marriage. He is not a kid who needs guidance from an adult. He has had 6 months to figure out what he wants. SIX MONTHS. Yet he still wallows around the house in self pity, hiding behind a emotional wall, seemingly not 100% sure what is the next step to take. If you believe I am emotionally immature Tojaz god knows what you think of John, cause honestly I am Dr Phil compared to him.

 

My concern is not what John will do, it is what will be the best for Jenny. What will give her the best odds for success and at the same time and even more importantly, lessening the impact and damage should things go astray from the path we are all hoping for. What Jenny is doing is good for everybody involved, she is controlling her emotions and venting them here rather then in the home, she is building a history of good calm communication with John so he can see something other then the outbursts, and only judging for her posts, she is in a better state for herself then she was.

 

This next paragraph is open to conjecture and debate. My opinion.

 

Jenny is not controlling her emotions and she is not in a better emotional state. The bolded above IMO is an incorrect statement. She constantly obsesses on John's actions and what he might be doing (cheating etc). She continues to react without thinking and continues to communicate with John in a poor way. Ok she has not blasted off at him recently, but it is only a matter of time before she does. The warning signs are already there...

 

It hurts like hell but I dont think anything he is doing is helping either. Im starting to get mad at him.

 

Right now her cool and calm persona when they are interacting, is only an act and I'm pretty sure John can see right through it. She needs to have full control and understanding of her emotions internally. Otherwise she WILL lose her cool again. Nothing more certain -> Ergo she currently does not have full control of her emotions.

 

As for lessening the impact. I can't imagine any words from any LS poster past or present that will lessen the impact if this ends in divorce.

 

I agree that trying to wait out the clock is not the best move for her and that a time for action will come, but that has to be when shes ready for it, not when the people on this board are ready for it (so are you going to offer any solutions?). A marriage adrift is still better then a marriage sinking.

 

I absolutely LOVE this Jenny! Maybe everyone won't agree, but I'm with you 100%, you handled things very well there.

 

No one is giving Jenny definitive timelines. We are offering her potential solutions. It's up to Jenny to agree to these solutions or not. At least some of us are offering solutions. I could be the most popular poster on the board Tojaz and tell every poster everything they want to hear. To me that's just fake. I'd rather be myself and honest. It works for some people. It doesn't work for others but at least I am offering solutions, not politicians answers...

 

To the bolded thing above. I couldn't disagree more how Jenny handled this. If she approached her husband and laid out how its not been fair on her living in emotional limbo for 6 months. Explained how John should have been more assertive and decisive in his decision(s). Using the lease as an excuse while putting her through emotional hell etc etc, this I would have been on board with. Telling him that he is disrespecting her, by not telling her his whereabouts is just poor communication. It just drives a bigger wedge between them.

 

If I were Jenny two nights ago I'd have given him two letters. The first letter would be the one I wrote (with a little editing). A second letter which would have to be written by Jenny, outlining how damaging and hurtful his behaviour has been to her. I would have then looked him in the eye and said "you want to know why I have been so up and down these past few months. Just read these letters". In these situations letters would have been the way to go, because Jenny is not in emotional control. Currently, she would not be able to communicate everything she is feeling face to face. Also, when you are laying your heart on the line and you don't get the reaction you are looking for, the chances of exploding go up a huge amount.

 

Once John had those letters and read them he would know everything there is to know. Can we really say that now??? Not even close and this what concerns me the most. It's the point in my head that I keep coming back to...

 

I don't think he was changing the subject here Jenny, for him input is input.

 

This is the biggest pile of nonsense you have posted in this entire thread. John CLEARLY has avoidance issues. It's the reason he changed topic so fast mid conversation. It's the reasons he brought his friends over when Jenny was blowing her top. For reasons I can only guess at, he can't effectively deal with confrontation, so he therefore looks to avoid it when he can.

 

I know some posters believe Jenny will do the right thing(s) cause she knows John best. I don't agree. She is far too emotional to think and act logically and this is the key point for me. When you are this emotional, you don't always make the right decisions. This is why I interjected on the thread yesterday. It's up to other posters and especially Jenny, to comment if my presence on this thread is helpful or not.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Mack05

[Mack05]

Jenny for me there is 3 wrongs. I have stated this on this thread before. Your mistake, his reaction/dealing to this mistake and your losing your cool/abusing him, thus forcing him back into his shell.

 

He needs to know everything before he leaves, or before you get him off the lease. One of the key things for me is John doesn't know what you are feeling inside. There is a HUGE communication issue here, caused with the emotional barrier between the two of you. I mean he has suggested you don't even love him. That shows me just how far apart you both are.

 

Since I am the one talking about solutions, I would write two letters as I stated above. Why two? Well firstly you don't one one long letter with contrasting messages. The two letters focus on the three sets of wrongs. The first letter covers yours (it needs editing) the second covers his wrongs (you need to be VERY careful writing this).

 

Now if you want to take one step at a time, maybe just give him your letter first and you could potentially wait until MC before discussing the second letter. Not sure what strategy is best, but either way If he can't come to his senses you have to let him go.

 

You now I believe you both need space, but if he decides to stay MC would be great also.

 

There are 3-4 books I believe would greatly help you know..I think your focus would be far better served reading/learning, instead of being fearful of what might be.

 

1) Why can't you read my mind (would help with your relationship communication)

2) Go suck a lemon (helps you with techniques regarding gaining control over your emotions)

3) The power of now (best self help book ever)

4) Maybe read Gunny's recommendation -> "How To Win Back The One You Love"

Edited March 13, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Everyones thoughts and comments are helpful. So thank you all!

 

I DONT know what to do! I think in many ways Its better if John chooses to go on his own rather than I make him go.

 

Also I can say if I'm standing for my marriage I'm not throwing him out thats cold and that isnt me. BUT the fed up angry Jenny would like to throw him out but only cause I'm mad. Probably not a good choice either.

 

When I was in counseling one thing he told me was NEVER make a life changing decision when is based on emotions. I agree so no decision yet. I agree I may not be in the best emotional state but I am better. Lets face it I wont be in a good emotional state unless my marriage is saved.

 

I know if I push him out I will regret it and wonder what if. That is just me! I still don't think John is sure and we can all guess why or why not but he could get off the lease if he wanted. He is a big boy. Hes choose not to, for whatever reason. There was another point in this 6 mth period I suggestedhe get off it and he said he would not sign it.

 

He does like to avoid issues he hasbeen doing it for 6 mths. In the past though when we have had conflict he has been the one to apologize first. He hated me being upset with him. However he is a procrastnater too. And often Ive had to push him to make decisions. He is indecisive. Just some insight on him

 

Keep in mind too this guy claims to be moving out when lease is up yet he has NO money set aside! Unless he just plans on waiting till the last minute. As of now his pay goes right into out joint account.

[Mack05]

Jenny have you thought about the fact he doesn't know everything about you are feeling inside and how you want to deal with that going forward?

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Jenny for me there is 3 wrongs. I have stated this on this thread before. Your mistake, his reaction/dealing to this mistake and your losing your cool/abusing him, thus forcing him back into his shell.

 

He needs to know everything before he leaves, or before you get him off the lease. One of the key things for me is John doesn't know what you are feeling inside. There is a HUGE communication issue here, caused with the emotional barrier between the two of you. I mean he has suggested you don't even love him. That shows me just how far apart you both are.

 

Since I am the one talking about solutions, I would write two letters as I stated above. Why two? Well firstly you don't one one long letter with contrasting messages. The two letters focus on the three sets of wrongs. The first letter covers yours (it needs editing) the second covers his wrongs (you need to be VERY careful writing this).

 

Now if you want to take one step at a time, maybe just give him your letter first and you could potentially wait until MC before discussing the second letter. Not sure what strategy is best, but either way If he can't come to his senses you have to let him go.

 

You now I believe you both need space, but if he decides to stay MC would be great also.

 

There are 3-4 books I believe would greatly help you know..I think your focus would be far better served reading/learning, instead of being fearful of what might be.

 

1) Why can't you read my mind (would help with your relationship communication)

2) Go suck a lemon (helps you with techniques regarding gaining control over your emotions)

3) The power of now (best self help book ever)

4) Maybe read Gunny's recommendation -> "How To Win Back The One You Love"

 

I have communicated how I feel to him as recently as two nights ago. Maybe I havent gone into enough detail with him but i have told him the reason i get so flusttered is because im all over the place trying to figure out what to do to save the marriage and it makes me assume things and his lack of actions helps fed into that.

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Jenny have you thought about the fact he doesn't know everything about you are feeling inside and how you want to deal with that going forward?

 

I have told him how much I love him and care

[Mack05]

I have communicated how I feel to him as recently as two nights ago. Maybe I havent gone into enough detail with him but i have told him the reason i get so flusttered is because im all over the place trying to figure out what to do to save the marriage and it makes me assume things and his lack of actions helps fed into that.

 

This is why sometimes a letter can be more beneficial then face to face. Jenny I would make this mistake too in your shoes. I remember meeting an ex one night having a CLEAR idea what I wanted to say to her. But she was in a different place to me. I would make a point, she would say something I am not expecting to hear. I would get flustered and my point that I wanted to make simply never got made. I got emotional, sidetracked and ended up making things worse.

 

Communicating effectively while emotional is something I have yet to master. I'm sure many are the same. The reason why I want to you to give him the letter I wrote is because it shows him what is in your heart and what you mean to him. I get the impression he has convinced himself otherwise. You have told him you want to save the marriage. Was there emotion? Passion? In that conversation did you show him what is in your heart and what he means to you?

 

I agree with other posters that a week or two just getting back on track was the way to go. If it were me, I would give him the letter I posted (needs editing)..What have you got to lose?

 

At some stage you have to bring him to task over his behaviour. Otherwise I can't see the marriage working going forward. But maybe one step at a time..

 

Of course the above is "If it were me...."

Edited March 13, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I will go back through and look at the letter. I guess i have nothing to lose!

 

I think there was passion behind my confessing but i dont think he cared! I have cried so many times to him telling him how deeply sorry I am and how I just want to make things right in December hesaid he needed time and no pressure. Well I blew that. Nowas recently as two weeks ago he was saying his mind was made up and hes leaving when lease is up and i did pour my heart saying id give him more time and he said that wasnt fair to either of us and he just wanted to be alone!

[Mack05]

Jenny the reason I want you to give him this letter is because it should be personal to 'him'. I words I love you, I want to save this marriage can be used by any married couple in the world. You need to make this about 'him' and what is personal to 'him'. Only You know what those things are, so edit this letter and make him feel like he is the ONLY guy in the world for you. Make it as personal as you can in that the letter could only have been written about John.

 

When you spoke dirty to that guy I am sure he longer felt 'unique' to you. This is what you need to do IMO. Make him feel unique to you.

 

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Dear John,

 

I know I have written a few letters to you, but this will be the last one.

 

I can understand why you want to leave me, I really can. The last 5 months have been the hardest of my life. Seeing the man the I love and the marriage I treasure so dearly, slowly sleeping through my fingers has been worse than any nightmare that I have ever dreamed.

 

I have tried to make things better, but in my desperate attempts to reconcile I have only made things worse. Obviously I have lost emotional control. I can't stop analyzing everything. It seems I can't stop reacting without 'thinking' first. And right now the harsh reality is my actions are not backing up my words. All this does is damage the bond of trust which was already vulnerable.

 

I wish more than anything I could turn the clock 5 months back. Why I risked my marriage to play some pathetic, juvenile immature prank, is something that will haunt me for the rest of my life. The fact that some of our friends know what I did, just adds to the shame. It feels like part of me is dying inside. The fact I will never get to hold you again, laugh with you again, cuddle you again, kiss you again, make love to you again just leaves me with an enormous emptiness inside.

 

I really don't think you should make such a big decision as divorce without at least some space and a trial separation. I wish you would consider counselling. Sometimes in life we don't always know what is best for us. I know you are hurting and I know you have a lot going in your life right now. Could you at least consider a trail separation?

 

The truth is I really don't want to leave go John. I don't want a divorce, but this is no longer about me. I love you with all my heart and loving someone means putting their needs above your own. Therefore with an ache in my heart, I will agree to anything you want. I understand your heart is 'closed' right now and when you have a closed heart, you have a closed mind. I accept that nothing I say or do right now will make any difference.

 

I am not sure what you want to do from now until May. If you want to move out I understand, if you want to stay I understand. So that you know, I am going to continue the lease on this place for the next year. If you decide to stay I will try and make things as easy for you as I can. I really don't want the awkwardness that has been there for the past few weeks. I don't want out last few months together to be sad one's.

 

Finally, I need you to know something. I will always be available for reconciliation. There is no other man for me. Not now, not ever. Your the only man I want a future with. If it's not with you, then I don't want it with any man. Despite everything I still believe in us. I would do anything, literally anything to save our marriage. Even if you can find forgiveness for what I did, I know I need to work on my flaws. I also recognise that a new found emotional maturity doesn't take place over night.

 

I don't want to be that immature silly 'girl' anymore. I want to work on these flaws. If you could ever give me a chance, I can show you that I've got the guts to stand up for what I believe in and I believe in us John. I love you with all my heart and I know deep down you love me back. I want to grow old with you. I want have a family with you. I want to have kids with you. Kids with your eyes, and your smile and my...I just want to have the privilege of giving birth to them. That's all.

 

I am always yours. I will always love you and I will always have sadness and regret for what I have done.

 

Your Jenny

[Mack05]

Once he reads what you have written, at least you know there was nothing else you could have done. At least he will know every little thing that's in your heart. I think at this stage you have nothing to lose.

 

Maybe his mind is made up. maybe it is too late. If that's the case I will seriously end up disliking the guy, because if that is the case he should have been out of the house in December. That is for another day.

 

I know we disagree on how you want to deal this going forward. But if you can somehow get him to MC then what a step forward that would be. The other stuff (his behaviour, how to move forward healthily) can be raised and dealt with in the company of a professional.

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I think he will read it but like before just push it aside and that will be it!

 

I just wish i knew what would turn things around and for sure what to do. My marriage failing is all i ever think about

[Mack05]

I think he will read it but like before just push it aside and that will be it!

 

I just wish i knew what would turn things around and for sure what to do. My marriage failing is all i ever think about

 

I think if we all knew the solutions Jenny, would be all be millionaires. Staying positive when been confronted by you worse fears is very very hard, but it is more beneficial then you understand.

 

I still believe it can be saved. But for this to be saved you need to truly believe as well. Otherwise all this nice stuff and hoping for the best is just an act. People see right through that.

 

Maybe John might cast the letter to one side. Maybe he might not even read it. Maybe it helps open the door even slightly ajar. All you can do is keep trying, keep fighting, keep believing.

 

If it were me Jenny I'd have walked away, because his behaviour is something I can't or won't tolerate. I would feel I am better off. But you don't want to walk away. If you don't want to walk away, you can't give up. If you are not giving up, you have to try stay positive. You have to believe something, whether its a letter, something you say, a life situation, whatever, you have to believe SOMETHING will eventually get through that wall of his. Otherwise why not just sign the divorce papers now?

 

Your attitude has to be "if this letter doesn't work, I'm going to find something that does work". If you find yourself obsessing about his behaviour, focus on your breathing. The focus on PMA (positive mental attitude). If you can get yourself REALLY believing, this will start to flow out of you. He will see your self confidence and he will have a reaction to this.

 

Your mind is being used in a negative capacity. While it remains this way things are only going to get worse..The battle you are having against yourself, is badly effecting the fight to save your marriage.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Mack05

[ComingInHot]

Jenny;

Why didn't you Tell your H what you & your friend decided to do?

 

And, whether or not this "thing" you & your friend did was real or not, your H ferls You cheated.

He is going through everything that a BS goes throgh when their WS cheats. To him, You cheated. Again, it doesn't matter if you did/didn't, what he read that You wrote regardless of intention, put him there.

 

So, if the stats are accurate, you're looking at Two to Five years of reconciliation, IF he decides to stay w/who he believes, cheated on him...

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Jenny;

Why didn't you Tell your H what you & your friend decided to do?

 

And, whether or not this "thing" you & your friend did was real or not, your H ferls You cheated.

He is going through everything that a BS goes throgh when their WS cheats. To him, You cheated. Again, it doesn't matter if you did/didn't, what he read that You wrote regardless of intention, put him there.

 

So, if the stats are accurate, you're looking at Two to Five years of reconciliation, IF he decides to stay w/who he believes, cheated on him...

 

I dont know why! I guess I just didnt think it was a big deal at the time! I guess i thought I was doing something great to help my friend.

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I am really confused today! Not sure what direction to go. Im afraid I will do the wrong thing. So much advice yet I have to do what works best for me and all I know is fighting and pouting is pointless.

 

I love this man and I can't make him leave. That just doesn't feel right. It would be different if he was cheating or doing harm to me. He has been pretty clear that he would be moving out its not like hes been telling me different. He did in Dec but in Feb he told me all the accusing and such had changed his mind and he felt it was better to go when lease is up.

 

I still have hope maybe to some thats not enough but I cant control what he does!!

 

Please keep us in your prayers if you pray John and I need them

[Mack05]

I am really confused today! Not sure what direction to go. Im afraid I will do the wrong thing. So much advice yet I have to do what works best for me and all I know is fighting and pouting is pointless.

 

I love this man and I can't make him leave. That just doesn't feel right. It would be different if he was cheating or doing harm to me. He has been pretty clear that he would be moving out its not like hes been telling me different. He did in Dec but in Feb he told me all the accusing and such had changed his mind and he felt it was better to go when lease is up.

 

I still have hope maybe to some thats not enough but I cant control what he does!!

 

Please keep us in your prayers if you pray John and I need them

 

Jenny you hit the nail on the head with the above statement in bold. I could fight back and forth with Tojaz, Trippi, Alliekat and anyone else. It really doesn't matter to any of us who is right or wrong in the longrun, as long as you end up with John in a long happy marriage.

 

If you are confused take your time and figure out which path to take. Try trust your gut instinct and be true to yourself.."The first reaction is usually the correct one" (great saying)

Edited March 13, 2013 by Mack05

[Yasuandio]

I dont know why! I guess I just didnt think it was a big deal at the time! I guess i thought I was doing something great to help my friend.

 

You know, every now and then, we get reminded by new posters, like Cominginhot, that your behaviour can be perceived in many different ways. Mack, me, Tojaz, Trippi, Gunny, we all past it, done and done. We know you had no malicious intent. But I bet we converse with you a heck of a lot more than your husband! BTW, so glad to see your outstanding contributions, Mack!

 

On the other hand, converation with husband has not evolved on the issue as it has with LS folk. I think that's why some of us might get really frustrated with John's lack of progress. But he is not part of the "growing past the problem" dialogue. He is just with his man thoughts: happy, sad, mad, horny, hungry. And right now, circle "mad" and "sad." When the basic man is in this mode, and has decided to go "red light" on the relationship, the loving words and actions are useless. He just needs his cavetime, to make a decision if he can take a chance with his heart to go "yellow light" and eventually "green light" again. The more you go at him, however, the deeper he will go in the cave, and the "red light" will appear - through silence, evasiveness, anger, aggressiveness disappearance, lying, hiding money from the family, meaningless cheating, affairs, substance abuse, separation, and/or divorce.

 

The last thing a person in "red light" mode wants to hear is "I love you." "I want you." "I need you." "I will change." "I will make it up to you." "I will fight for our marriage." The problem with these statements is it is all about I, I, I, I, I, me, me, me, me, me. They come of as stuff people don't feel like hearing when they're in the red light zone (see 180's).

 

I do not disagree with the letter ideas at all. But instead of "I love you," try some creative approaches: "you are the love of my life."

 

And instead of "I will change" say perhaps, these are my goals. In fact I think we edited that part already.

 

I'm with Mack on the letter, whatta you have to lose? On the other hand, it is rewarding a negative response to the lease situation with a loving letter. That is the only problem I see. But it could be easily modified by starting the letter out with something like:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear John,

 

When you confirmed to me last Wednesday that you want to be removed from our lease, I felt as if a knife had been stabbed me in my heart. (or my heart dropped, or whatever). I am already beginning to mourn the reality of losing you and our mariage I so treasured.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is what perplexes me:

At what point does Jenny take this guy's word for real?

 

Actually, as I already stated about their convo, I found him to directly answer the lease question, but suddenly, he became evasive, in my opinion. And as Jenny states, the lease office is only 40 paces away, if he is serious, then he must get out and stop holding this over her head.

 

I think her conduct has been excellent. But I agree with Mack - she may lose it, I know I certainly would under this deress. And this time, I would not blame it on her "lack of control" either. I would blame on her being a human being with normal feelings and emotions. When human beings are pushed to the limit, all sorts of things can result. Jenny, your an adult, and it is all your choice. If you blow up, I am going to take a different position this time round.

 

You've shown such good control in the "blow up catagory." Perhaps if you really work and concentrate on the "Imaging Things Like Cheating" catagory, you can get a grip before it get you. You always realize how dumb it was afterwards, right? It's natural for your mind to dream up stuff like this - but all it is is "mindreading." You have to always remember that you are only MINDREADING. There are no facts.

 

There was also that good day you had, wheh you were all bouncy, went shopping, got the new rug, went back to your room to read or whatever. That was a day I could really feel your good spirits! You have to have mores like that with or without John. I know it is hard, because you are worried.

 

Do you know a year from now, all worrying that you do will make no difference? And most things you worry about don't actually come to be? And if they do, it is always for a good reason. You can do this. Have a good day, honey. Smile! Yas

[Jennyfromtheblick]

All of you have helped me! I feel bad my thread has caused hard feelings. I really do feel bad. Your all such caring people!

 

 

Yas I too think hes in " red light mode" is there a way to deal with that?

 

Not sure on letter...just yet. I feel like I dont want to write toll im in control because if i slip up then its meaning will be lost.

 

Ive read unconditional love brings down emotional walls but I havent been able to maintain peace which i precieve to be part of UL

[Jennyfromtheblick]

You know, every now and then, we get reminded by new posters, like Cominginhot, that your behaviour can be perceived in many different ways. Mack, me, Tojaz, Trippi, Gunny, we all past it, done and done. We know you had no malicious intent. But I bet we converse with you a heck of a lot more than your husband! BTW, so glad to see your outstanding contributions, Mack!

 

On the other hand, converation with husband has not evolved on the issue as it has with LS folk. I think that's why some of us might get really frustrated with John's lack of progress. But he is not part of the "growing past the problem" dialogue. He is just with his man thoughts: happy, sad, mad, horny, hungry. And right now, circle "mad" and "sad." When the basic man is in this mode, and has decided to go "red light" on the relationship, the loving words and actions are useless. He just needs his cavetime, to make a decision if he can take a chance with his heart to go "yellow light" and eventually "green light" again. The more you go at him, however, the deeper he will go in the cave, and the "red light" will appear - through silence, evasiveness, anger, aggressiveness disappearance, lying, hiding money from the family, meaningless cheating, affairs, substance abuse, separation, and/or divorce.

 

The last thing a person in "red light" mode wants to hear is "I love you." "I want you." "I need you." "I will change." "I will make it up to you." "I will fight for our marriage." The problem with these statements is it is all about I, I, I, I, I, me, me, me, me, me. They come of as stuff people don't feel like hearing when they're in the red light zone (see 180's).

 

I do not disagree with the letter ideas at all. But instead of "I love you," try some creative approaches: "you are the love of my life."

 

And instead of "I will change" say perhaps, these are my goals. In fact I think we edited that part already.

 

I'm with Mack on the letter, whatta you have to lose? On the other hand, it is rewarding a negative response to the lease situation with a loving letter. That is the only problem I see. But it could be easily modified by starting the letter out with something like:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear John,

 

When you confirmed to me last Wednesday that you want to be removed from our lease, I felt as if a knife had been stabbed me in my heart. (or my heart dropped, or whatever). I am already beginning to mourn the reality of losing you and our mariage I so treasured.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is what perplexes me:

At what point does Jenny take this guy's word for real?

 

*** he does this everytime we have " serious talk"

 

Actually, as I already stated about their convo, I found him to directly answer the lease question, but suddenly, he became evasive, in my opinion. And as Jenny states, the lease office is only 40 paces away, if he is serious, then he must get out and stop holding this over her head.

 

I think her conduct has been excellent. But I agree with Mack - she may lose it, I know I certainly would under this deress. And this time, I would not blame it on her "lack of control" either. I would blame on her being a human being with normal feelings and emotions. When human beings are pushed to the limit, all sorts of things can result. Jenny, your an adult, and it is all your choice. If you blow up, I am going to take a different position this time round.

 

You've shown such good control in the "blow up catagory." Perhaps if you really work and concentrate on the "Imaging Things Like Cheating" catagory, you can get a grip before it get you. You always realize how dumb it was afterwards, right? It's natural for your mind to dream up stuff like this - but all it is is "mindreading." You have to always remember that you are only MINDREADING. There are no facts.

 

There was also that good day you had, wheh you were all bouncy, went shopping, got the new rug, went back to your room to read or whatever. That was a day I could really feel your good spirits! You have to have mores like that with or without John. I know it is hard, because you are worried.

 

Do you know a year from now, all worrying that you do will make no difference? And most things you worry about don't actually come to be? And if they do, it is always for a good reason. You can do this. Have a good day, honey. Smile! Yas

 

 

He changes subject to something else. Im not sure if is because he doesnt want to deal with it or if its hurtful or what. Like i said one time he said if you loved me you would tellme to get out. Then in same conversation he stated if i loved him i would sign D papers. Which is it? I love you and let you stay or I love you and let you go?

[Yasuandio]

He changes subject to something else. Im not sure if is because he doesnt want to deal with it or if its hurtful or what. Like i said one time he said if you loved me you would tellme to get out. Then in same conversation he stated if i loved him i would sign D papers. Which is it? I love you and let you stay or I love you and let you go?

 

This is the kind of mixed-messages that confused people, tempt some to start mindreading, and cause blow-ups. It is better for John to say nothing. I think it is pretty useless to interpret his words right now be them so contradictory. To me, it shows he is not comfortable in either position. But I don't know him Jenny. And frankly, him saying he doesn't want to be on lease, and his reversed psychology is agravating. I see what you mean.

 

In above quote, I would suggest removing the subject away from "love." It is not about "love," it is about if he is to remain in the current domicile or not. Even room-mates and landlords need a head-up, "yes or no" on this matter if one of the co-signers expresses a desire to break the lease. Once "love" gets thrown into the convo - it becomes a push-pull monkey wrench, and the convo solves nothing. It becomes "you don't love me if you do this or that, and I love you because I didn't do this or that and what you did proves you do not love me and this or that, blah, blah. BS

 

Like Seargent Friday used to say, "Stick to the facks Maam, just stick to the facts." It is a business matter that he put on the table. He states lack of love, doesn't want to be on lease, wears no wedding ring? Well, I'd be preparing for my future without him if it werre me, and I sure wouldn't want to be looking at him while I was doing. But that is just me. This is about you. Perhaps the tip about sticking to the facts in convo will be helpful. Yas

[Yasuandio]

All of you have helped me! I feel bad my thread has caused hard feelings. I really do feel bad. Your all such caring people!

 

 

Yas I too think hes in " red light mode" is there a way to deal with that?

 

Not sure on letter...just yet. I feel like I dont want to write toll im in control because if i slip up then its meaning will be lost.

 

Ive read unconditional love brings down emotional walls but I havent been able to maintain peace which i precieve to be part of UL

 

Firstly, Honey, everything is going to be ok. All of us want to be at the party, and we love helping you cause you are so sweet. We all have sensitive feelings too, and it is important to express you feelings, even if there may be a political dimension to them, this is good medicine to keep up moral. Mack's recent posts give me strength and backbone to come back again and fully particapate on your thread.

 

We are all human in the end. We are all united for one cause when it comes down to it. Each of us is a unique individual with a unique style - and everyone of us has inperfections that can show up once in a while on LS! Your family is really huge now on LS honey! Maybe you should tell John you are going to become a runaway bride and elope with us! HaHa Yas

 

Edit: PS On anything, the letter, lease, or whatever, you wait until it is the right time for you. Only Jenny can know this time. If you make a bad move, it is your bad move to make, that is the risk involved in love and war. But the visa-versa is true also, a good move can determine whether you get excellent results or not!

Edited March 13, 2013 by Yasuandio
PS added to address another point.

[tojaz]

Tojaz I used to respect you as a poster, but like John is starting to annoy Jenny, you are starting to annoy me.

 

If I wrote any of my posts for your approval, then this might concern me. Maybe if you spent as much time writing something constructive as you did trying to deconstruct my post, you might be able to come up with something other then writing down what has already been said and giving him space over and over again even though Jenny has already rejected that as not being right for her.

 

I do hope typing all that out made you feel better Mack.

 

Jenny, I'm still reading, but don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said and not really interested in entering a childish debate, so I'll weigh in again when things get back on track. You have done well even though there is still a long way to go, don't let yourself be pressured into doing anything that can undo that.

 

TOJAZ

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Tonight was a good night! Go figure! John came home said hey when he walked in, was asking me questions about my rental car and we have talked small talk most of the evening. No serious talk at all. He was very chatty. Almost like the old John.

 

Im not reading anything in to it though. Who knows what tomorrow may bring

[Yasuandio]

Tonight was a good night! Go figure! John came home said hey when he walked in, was asking me questions about my rental car and we have talked small talk most of the evening. No serious talk at all. He was very chatty. Almost like the old John.

 

Im not reading anything in to it though. Who knows what tomorrow may bring

 

 

GREAT! As Tony the Tiger would say! Everything in bold!

 

Now, Homer and others too, (Divorce Busters, 180's, Mimi Tanner - I have learned so much from her publications! Thank God I I read them in time! She has free e-mail tips on all her books), say avoid SERIOUS TALK. What does serious talk get you? Pressure. Period. Who ever responds to pressure? Do you like it when a salesperson presures you to buy something? Same thing.

 

You are on the right track honey! I'm so proud of you! I wish I had this ability to keep my cool.

Damn it, keep it up, Girl! Every new change takes PRACTICE. I trally like how you are assessing the emotional climate as opposed to jumping right into it. That is wisdom at work. Thinking before reacting or even responding. SMART COOKIE. That takes cool control.

 

You know, I was able to make a change couple years ago, I didn't think I could do it. But therapist said - try practicing - and it worked. In my case it was a very dirty mouth. I was going to church, and not even realizing there were at least 2-3 cuss words in every sentence I made. Noone at the church never said anything about my Sailor mouth, and accepted me as is, but I did start to notice it myself when I met with the preacher alone, to pray about my MFing sins. So, I started putting my hand over my mouth when the cuss word came out, or I would apologize if I slipped, and pretty soon I stopped cussing all the time. I had control for a couple years. Then I stopped going to that church.

 

Well, you know, I got lazy with my habits, and went back to cussing. I guess you have to keep practicing until you own it. Bravo for you so far. Cheers! Yas

Edited March 14, 2013 by Yasuandio