Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Jenny you say John is a private guy, so why do so many people know what's happened here? Also which family member of his thinks he shouldn't go back? Just wondering out loud would this be less of an issue if people didn't know? I told them! Nobody in is family that knows thinks he shoukdnt work things out with me. Though only his parents and aunt know, that we know of! I think he would prefer if nobody knew but sadly enough in my early desperate attempts i told many people Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ok Jenny, thinking out loud here so to speak.. From what you've told us, it seems like he seems to get uncomfortable talking about the marriage one way or another, be it you trying to coax him to stay or trying to facilitate his exit and he seems the most comfortable when things are calm and civil but ambiguous between the two of you, as in limbo. Based on what you said above, It seems like he still values you in his life, he values your opinion and has good interaction with you so long as you don't push the issue of the divorce. Being straightforward with him hasn't helped much and has pushed him back at times, and being aggressive has resulted in an aggressive response. So going off of the "status quo" situation and some of what Mack has said about encouraging an emotional response from him but all the while protecting your interaction. Using what you posted above as an example, what if when he came and asked you about the brakes you had pleasantly replied with something along the lines of "I guess I'm going to have to learn about this stuff" Implying that he won't be around the next time you need brakes and then just go on about your business. Its a relatively safe statement that doesn't blatantly drag him to the subject, but it brings it to the front of his mind subtly. Something like that can plant a seed for him to think about when he's not feeling a need to defend himself. Well timed, a similar statement can play off of the contradictions between his words and his actions. Like him discussing his options for a different vehicle in the future when his angry words stated that you wouldn't be present for that decision to effect you (sorry if that stung a little). Say by mentioning that without a car payment he would have more for rent. While not risk free, it does help to minimize and protect that good interaction. It would pretty much have to be as opportunities presented themselves, but subtle reminders can make the situation "real" for him without being as assertive and high risk as trying to sign him off the lease and if he reacted poorly it could be explained away fairly easily as you just trying to wrap your head around the idea. Thoughts? TOJAZ I could do this subtley for sure! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I could do this subtley for sure! Give it a shot, but start small and slow, too subtle will always be better then too much. You know how to read him, so pay attention for cues that something hit home, the eyes and such, he's probably not going to say anything. If you think it has an effect we just might have something we can use mixed in with your continued positive interactions. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I like Tojaz' idea. I just would keep it subtle. For example, if he's talking about the cars, the answer response suggested by Tojaz is not so blatent - "Oh, yes, I better start learning about these things!" (On a sad note, this may be the actual reason he is sharing this "masculine" type of information with you suddenly, and making changes in the vechicles as well, in order to emancipate you. I would be careless if I did not mention that point.). I had thought of that too, but it doesn't lessen the effect any even if that is his mind set, it might enhance it since it would play towards his cartaking. Now making a statement about how the sale of the vehicle is going to help him with the rent, that's really in his face! Nothing suble about that. Again, as I have said before, if you ask for something you might get it. So, if you ask this question at this point in time, be prepared for whatever response you're going to get - and PLAN not to REACT WTH ANGER (because you knew the risk before you asked). The riskier statement is not unlike having "the move-out slash divorce talk" at the table - it is just more creative - and less confrontation. If Jenny likes it, and can keep her cool, I think it is a heck of a lot better than any serious talk. And implies mature acceptance, rather than hysteria. Therefore, she has accomplished one of the goals of separation without leaving (if she can handle the negative response should they come her way). I like it. The second statement is bolder, but the idea is to demonstrate acceptance of the divorce and it does bring the subject up in a way, but thats the idea. The statement demands nothing of him, not even a response. Worst case, if it sets him off he doesn't really have an argument and it would be an emotional outburst on his part... the conversation is all business for Jenny (on the surface) if his emotions get enflamed it has had it's desired effect even if does make for a tense moment. It's not something to lead with, but a measure of turning things up if you are getting decent results another option would be to cook his favorite meal (just by chance of course) and offer to show him how to cook it for himself. It will be easier to keep things subtle in practice rather then reading it here. TOJAZ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mack05 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I told them! Nobody in is family that knows thinks he shoukdnt work things out with me. Though only his parents and aunt know, that we know of! I think he would prefer if nobody knew but sadly enough in my early desperate attempts i told many people Not good, not good. I'm like John in that I am a private guy and HATE people knowing my business. I think you telling people did more damage then the actual dirty talk. I think if you did what your doing now (being cool and calm) at the start all this, he might have slowly come round. This for sure hasn't helped, but no point in crying over spilt milk.. I like Tojaz and Yas's idea, but like 3 months ago. I personally think its too late for half measures and I would be surprised if he engages you. Really easy to side step here. Danger too in that you could get yourself into trouble. Thread carefully and if you are going along with this plan pick the right spot, don't force it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Stay the fight! Never surrender! Never back down! Stand your ground! You've GOT to want IT! You've got to work for it! You've GOT to believe in IT! You've got to believe in yourself! You've got to have faith when faith is all but lost! You must go the way of William Wallace! Against ALL odds! You must go the way of Hero's and of Warriors and the Warrior way. "I gave my best! I gave my all!" 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Not good, not good. I'm like John in that I am a private guy and HATE people knowing my business. I think you telling people did more damage then the actual dirty talk. I think if you did what your doing now (being cool and calm) at the start all this, he might have slowly come round. This for sure hasn't helped, but no point in crying over spilt milk.. I like Tojaz and Yas's idea, but like 3 months ago. I personally think its too late for half measures and I would be surprised if he engages you. Really easy to side step here. Danger too in that you could get yourself into trouble. Thread carefully and if you are going along with this plan pick the right spot, don't force it. Yeah I agree about all the people knowing. I think if nobody knew this would be a different situation. He was furious I told people! I wish I hadn't but everyone started asking why we werent together at things and I got sick of making up excuses and one day at a get together I just broke and started crying. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Stay the fight! Never surrender! Never back down! Stand your ground! You've GOT to want IT! You've got to work for it! You've GOT to believe in IT! You've got to believe in yourself! You've got to have faith when faith is all but lost! You must go the way of William Wallace! Against ALL odds! You must go the way of Hero's and of Warriors and the Warrior way. "I gave my best! I gave my all!" Gunny I just love you!! Your so positive! John is a military guy himself and He'd love the advice you give me IF he saw it and was in a better place. Thank you for cheering me 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Lmbo sorry Tojaz I just had to title this crumbs. So last evening was another positive evening! John was great all day! He told me where he was going when he left, was talkative and did most of the talking, he suggested a new place to get dinner from. Nothing fancy just pizza but he participated instead of whatever is fine. Also a small noteworthy thing. Ive noticed hes been distant in getting to close to me physically. Even sitting on couch or walk by me he keeps a safe distance. Last night I was showing him a scratch on our leather couch and he was all up in my space. Now we have had situations occur like this when Ive had to be close to him and he is CLOSED OFF body language wise. Not last night he seemed to almost want to bump into me. Anyway all good stuff. When things are this way I feel relaxed not nervous and anxious at all. Its nice to not feel so busy in my head its been awhile since i have felt like this, well before the fight over the emails. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mack05 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Yeah I agree about all the people knowing. I think if nobody knew this would be a different situation. He was furious I told people! I wish I hadn't but everyone started asking why we werent together at things and I got sick of making up excuses and one day at a get together I just broke and started crying. Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh . I like what u are doing though Jenny. No point in dwelling on the past, you are focusing on the now and the future. That is he way to go. I think Gunny Is flat out of his mind, but his optimism is infectious. I think he is Murdoch from the A team on these forums. I am more of a BA Baracus. Maybe Yaz/Tojaz are Hannibal. As long as some plan (idea) comes together hahaa I have an idea. You won't like it, so please feel free to ignore. Sad to say there is a bit of game playing involved and a HUGE amount of risk. However, I will keep posting ideas until you like one . I'm not even sure about this one, but thought I'd put it out there anyway. I work in IT and have regular project meetings. These meetings can get very heated. Bit of advice I used to get (from a talenet upper manager) when going into the Lions den is, doing the total opposite of what someone is expecting. It catches them off guard and sometimes forces them to have a rethink. Sometimes this strategy has worked, other times it has not... My idea here is why not talk to a lawyer/solictior and explain everything that has happened to him/her. I would go with a female lawyer, but I don't think that is hugely important here. I would find out exactly what your options are. What the best way forward is. I would then go home and say John can I talk to you for a sec? Be cool but more important friendly "I spoke with a lawyer today and he/she went through various options. I was thinking it might be an idea if you do the same? It would be great if all this was resolved as quick and agreeable as possible. Also with regarding the apartment, if you wanted to stay I would be more then happy to take my name of the lease and get a new place for myself (and the dog). Have a think about it and let me know" Finally the ball will be in his court. It's his move and you have more control of the situation then you do now. Let's be honest Jen lately things are improving, but no one has any idea if the ice is really thawing or if he just wants peace before he goes (and for what will happen after he goes). This second move (regarding the apartment) will really shock him. Now I know you don't want to leave' BUT you staying will make recovery and healing an awful lot tougher then it is already going to be. There will be reminders of John everywhere. A new start would be best for you in this situation I feel. Also, having him stay will mean there are remainders of you everywhere. He won't be able to escape it. He goes into the kitchen expecting to see you and you are not there. The living room won't be the same. The dog (I presume u get the dog) won't be there to greet him. Bottom line it makes it more difficult to start a fresh for him and that is what you want... Just something to think about... Edited March 17, 2013 by Mack05 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh . I like what u are doing though Jenny. No point in dwelling on the past, you are focusing on the now and the future. That is he way to go. I think Gunny Is flat out of his mind, but his optimism is infectious. I think he is Murdoch from the A team on these forums. I am more of a BA Baracus. Maybe Yaz/Tojaz are Hannibal. As long as some plan (idea) comes together hahaa I have an idea. You won't like it, so please feel free to ignore. Sad to say there is a bit of game playing involved and a HUGE amount of risk. However, I will keep posting ideas until you like one . I'm not even sure about this one, but thought I'd put it out there anyway. I work in IT and have regular project meetings. These meetings can get very heated. Bit of advice I used to get (from a talenet upper manager) when going into the Lions den is, doing the total opposite of what someone is expecting. It catches them off guard and sometimes forces them to have a rethink. Sometimes this strategy has worked, other times it has not... My idea here is why not talk to a lawyer/solictior and explain everything that has happened to him/her. I would go with a female lawyer, but I don't think that is hugely important here. I would find out exactly what your options are. What the best way forward is. I would then go home and say John can I talk to you for a sec? Be cool but more important friendly "I spoke with a lawyer today and he/she went through various options. I was thinking it might be an idea if you do the same? It would be great if all this was resolved as quick and agreeable as possible. Also with regarding the apartment, if you wanted to stay I would be more then happy to take my name of the lease and get a new place for myself (and the dog). Have a think about it and let me know" Finally the ball will be in his court. It's his move and you have more control of the situation then you do now. Let's be honest Jen lately things are improving, but we don't know if the ice is thawing or he just wants peace before he goes. This second move (regarding the apartment) will really shock him. Now I know you don't want to leave' BUT you staying will make recovery and healing an awful lot tougher then it is already going to be. There will be reminders of John everywhere. A new start would be best for you in this situation I feel. Also, having him stay will mean there are remainders of you everywhere. He won't be able to escape it. He goes into the kitchen expecting to see you and you are not there. The living room won't be the same. The dog (I presume u get the dog) won't be there to greet him. Bottom line it makes it more difficult to start a fresh for him and that is what you want... Just something to think about... You will love this! The first month of fighting I did see a lawyer because when John said the D word I thought hes serious and I need to figure stuff out now. With that being said she just explained how Divorce will work and the division of property. I really don't think that is a good idea right now to go that route with him. Remember Im trying to build on positive here and its only been a week since that started and I have had some positive results. I dont want to change course just yet. Im not trying to push him into making a move which is what I think this would do. I do apreciate everyone coming up with ideas but lets not stray to far yet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mack05 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ok Jen but this sudden thaw in relations doesn't make sense to me and I am fearful you are building your hopes up. I know you are cautious, but when you see progress it's hard not to get excited. I like that Tojaz, Yas and Gunny are keeping the positive flow, but I fear the crash will be bigger if this is just John wanting peace for the next 3 months before he leaves and what is to come after he leaves. When you consider the entire story, it just doesn't make sense that he would suddenly want to reconcile or have the thought process of "let's see what happens for the next few months because right now I am not sure what I want". My message is stay positive, but try not get too carried away..I know you want positive positive on this thread Jenny, but hopefully you feel it's just as important to have a voice of 'reason'.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TobyBoy Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's gonna take some time for John to come around. He likes what he sees in the "new" Jenny, but is being cautious. I ask you this....Are all these changes permanent or just a ploy to keep John from leaving? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's gonna take some time for John to come around. He likes what he sees in the "new" Jenny, but is being cautious. I ask you this....Are all these changes permanent or just a ploy to keep John from leaving? These really arent changes at all! Just me returning the person I was before all this. I was always kind but not a doormat! I never worried about him cheating or picked fights. I just to thinking that he was in love the woman I was and I was happy being me so why keep acting like a person I really wasnt. I guess it was fear that made me act nutty. But these arent changes really just me returning to whom I was for me and hopefully for him too 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ok Jen but this sudden thaw in relations doesn't make sense to me and I am fearful you are building your hopes up. I know you are cautious, but when you see progress it's hard not to get excited. I like that Tojaz, Yas and Gunny are keeping the positive flow, but I fear the crash will be bigger if this is just John wanting peace for the next 3 months before he leaves and what is to come after he leaves. When you consider the entire story, it just doesn't make sense that he would suddenly want to reconcile or have the thought process of "let's see what happens for the next few months because right now I am not sure what I want". My message is stay positive, but try not get too carried away..I know you want positive positive on this thread Jenny, but hopefully you feel it's just as important to have a voice of 'reason'.. I know john is a simple man and the women Ive been he doesnt like he liked the girl he married, the one i was before this. The one who didnt obsess over every move he made, the one who smiled, the one who spoke her mind etc. I dont think john ever wanted to divorce but i think how i have reacted ( he even said this) has put him off and i was acting like a crazy doing things left and right so different then the jen he knew. Starting with the emails. It all through him for a loop and lets face it he isnt to keen on that jen, neither was i. I was miserable. I even ignored the dog! It may be to late, maybe the damage is done. But he coukd definately change his mind in a day or a week or in 3mths especially if im myself and acting like a normal 33 year old instead of a depressed nasty bitter brat. If me being me isnt what he wants then its his loss. But really anything is possible and if nothing else i missed me! Im sleeping better, im not snapping at people, im able to smile again im starting to enjoy my life again. Mack lets face it not everything in life has to make sense! I know you dont want me to set myself up for heartbreak but i also dont want to set myself up for 2 mths more of hell. I want peace. I need peace. One day at a time im not going to waste my time planning my marriage funeral 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TobyBoy Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 How did you get to the point where you decided it was ok to write those emails to another man....while keeping it secret from your husband? Do you feel that was the real Jenny or the "nutty" one? Not bashing.....just asking. Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Lmbo sorry Tojaz I just had to title this crumbs. So last evening was another positive evening! John was great all day! He told me where he was going when he left, was talkative and did most of the talking, he suggested a new place to get dinner from. Nothing fancy just pizza but he participated instead of whatever is fine. Also a small noteworthy thing. Ive noticed hes been distant in getting to close to me physically. Even sitting on couch or walk by me he keeps a safe distance. Last night I was showing him a scratch on our leather couch and he was all up in my space. Now we have had situations occur like this when Ive had to be close to him and he is CLOSED OFF body language wise. Not last night he seemed to almost want to bump into me. Anyway all good stuff. When things are this way I feel relaxed not nervous and anxious at all. Its nice to not feel so busy in my head its been awhile since i have felt like this, well before the fight over the emails. Nothing wrong with being happy about crumbs Jenny, just want to see you keep going for the steak dinner! I think positive body language is good, it's the hardest thing to fake, especially from someone that knows you so well. Being able to feel at ease around him is huge as well, that's going to make things a lot easier. TOJAZ 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 How did you get to the point where you decided it was ok to write those emails to another man....while keeping it secret from your husband? Do you feel that was the real Jenny or the "nutty" one? Not bashing.....just asking. Listen man, we are like on page 47 of this thread. Jenny was run through the ringer with every possible question from posters, backwards and forwards, on this mistake in judgment. It has been months, and it's time to move forward. Can you just re-read the thread from the start? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 How did you get to the point where you decided it was ok to write those emails to another man....while keeping it secret from your husband? Do you feel that was the real Jenny or the "nutty" one? Not bashing.....just asking. I never really "THOUGHT" about it! I was just doing what I wanted I think. I took him for granted and his feelings. I was so used to him just being ok with everything I did. That was out of character for me. Normally I would tell him everything. Link to post Share on other sites
TobyBoy Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks Jenny.....I appreciate your honesty!! Now, do really want to go back to the "Jenny" you were? Better yet, do you think john wants back the "Jenny" you were? You can see where I'm going with this.....right? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Nothing wrong with being happy about crumbs Jenny, just want to see you keep going for the steak dinner! I think positive body language is good, it's the hardest thing to fake, especially from someone that knows you so well. Being able to feel at ease around him is huge as well, that's going to make things a lot easier. TOJAZ Oh I want the steak dinner and dessert too!! Lol Hey btw I was able to get a subtle comment in this am. I got up early to go to store and asked him if we needed anything he could think of he said water (We buy the big fridgemate water thingys and they can be heavy) He said if you manage it if not I can grab it later. I said "its ok i'll grab it I've got to get used to getting that stuff myself" the only reaction was a puzzled look but he didnt say anything. :-/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks Jenny.....I appreciate your honesty!! Now, do really want to go back to the "Jenny" you were? Better yet, do you think john wants back the "Jenny" you were? You can see where I'm going with this.....right? Well in someways yes in others No because I've grown from this BUT what I meant by who I was, was not the way I have been these last 6 mths. Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks Jenny.....I appreciate your honesty!! Now, do really want to go back to the "Jenny" you were? Better yet, do you think john wants back the "Jenny" you were? You can see where I'm going with this.....right? Sorry I stomped on you Tobyboy, I didn't see where you were going. And I still don't quite understand, but it was not my right to refer you to older posts. Please accept my apologies. I was being too much like an over protective Mama Bear. And I was stupid. It happens to me sometimes. I am working on it. Also, sorry to you Jenny. Yas Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Oh I want the steak dinner and dessert too!! Lol Hey btw I was able to get a subtle comment in this am. I got up early to go to store and asked him if we needed anything he could think of he said water (We buy the big fridgemate water thingys and they can be heavy) He said if you manage it if not I can grab it later. I said "its ok i'll grab it I've got to get used to getting that stuff myself" the only reaction was a puzzled look but he didnt say anything. :-/ I like it! I wouldn't expect him to say anything, but puzzled means he's thinking about it, and that's what were going for. Well done! TOJAZ 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jennyfromtheblick Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Sorry I stomped on you Tobyboy, I didn't see where you were going. And I still don't quite understand, but it was not my right to refer you to older posts. Please accept my apologies. I was being too much like an over protective Mama Bear. And I was stupid. It happens to me sometimes. I am working on it. Also, sorry to you Jenny. Yas No worries Yas! Thank you for caring about me :-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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