Stubborn husband might leave me

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Not sure anything I do will work due to his mind being made up. I just dont know. John is a good guy till you hurt him and he goes cold and shuts you out then.

 

He is the type that carries very few friendships or close relationships due to the fact in my opinion he doesnt want to get hurt. He really has only a few friends. Many people he knows and talks to but not in a friend level where you go and hang out. He is a lonely guy. And he said he is depressed to his two friends but not "clinincally depressed"

 

He should not be making life decisions while depressed. I need help here with a plan to fight. I got nowhere in thought last night. I can't focus

[Gunny376]

I had an incident tonight at work in which I had to go to another line. The team leader saw me raiding her supplies, and I told her, "I"ll bring it back!"

 

When I did? I made damned sure she knew I brought it back. I told her ~

 

"I've got only one chance to make things right with you! And only one chance to get it wrong?"

 

She knew ~ I knew ~ we knew!

 

I use to tell my Marines ~ "If you can't tell me the difference between the way things are, and the way that you think they should be? Your just pissing, moaning and a'bitchin'! I want and need at least three suggestions in defining "tha' difference" between the here and now, and what you think should be happening?"

 

But I'll settle for just one concerete, solid, rock hard suggestion!

 

Tell me how I can help you?

[tojaz]

There is a big difference between continuing to fight and not giving up and sometimes the best way to stand for your marriage is to know when not to fight for it.

 

I told you early on in the thread that you needed to be very deliberate in your actions and resist the nagging feeling that you were taking a step back if you weren't actively "doing" something.

 

He doesn't feel that hes playing games Jenny, but he most likely feels backed into a corner and he gave the answer he knew would get him out. That's why I suggested you not bring it up.

 

Like I said, using this time to get your head right and to take a step back to catch your breathe is going to serve you well right now.

 

TOJAZ

[Gunny376]

Yes as Tojaz said ~ there comes a point to where the fighting is just senseless, ego's get involved, feelings, emotions, crap comes out that one thought was long dead and gone ~ buried. Memories come into play back with Joe Smuckatelle did this, or that, said this or that? Way back when you were in the the fifth grade?

 

Emotions and feelings aren't right nor wrong ~ they're just feelings! They're just emotions. They perpetuate and reverberate! Like a reconciling bullet inside of a tank!

 

And all you want to do is just get out of the damned tank! You've got two broke legs, and you've climbed out of the turent, and its a good drop to the ground, but you know you've got to get out, but you know its going to hurt like a hundred Mother-truckers for ya to take that fall! But you know in order to survive ~ to just live you've got to do it and crawl away before 'she' blows all to Hell and back?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Gunny376

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Gunny Im not sure I follow what all you said! Be it lack of sleep or just I'm stupid! In the tank analogy are you telling me just to deal witg it even if it hurts?

 

I'm sorry I havent sleep in two days maybe I should.

 

Tojaz- you think I'm backing him in a corner by asking him what was up? I think your saying I shouldn't if asked at all or yet?

 

So do I go home and just act as if and prepare for divorce? And do nothing?

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Gunny i think after rereading what you wrote you were just explaining how fighting makes a person feel and how when they are hurting they got to get away right? Lol im trying

[Gunny376]

No I was trying to explain to you how emotions are just feelings and how strong and compelling they can be, even if they're not valid.

 

Feeling and emotions aren't right nor wrong, not necessarly valid at the present moment ~ they're just feelings. But yet they affect our day-to-day thinking, emotions.

 

Things that happended to you yesterday have a dramatic and important impact upon the choices and decisions you make today ~ the here and the now.

 

A lot of us are paying "rent" upon things that happened to us years and upon years ago ~ yet! It could have been something a parent said ~ or a school teacher said ~ or a classmate that called you stupid, dumb, or fat or a loser.

 

Long ago lost to them ~ so much trival pursuit? But it made an impression one you!

[Mack05]

Gunny Im not sure I follow what all you said! Be it lack of sleep or just I'm stupid! In the tank analogy are you telling me just to deal witg it even if it hurts?

 

I'm sorry I havent sleep in two days maybe I should.

 

Tojaz- you think I'm backing him in a corner by asking him what was up? I think your saying I shouldn't if asked at all or yet?

 

So do I go home and just act as if and prepare for divorce? And do nothing?

 

I don't think your absorbing what Tojaz is trying to tell you Jenny.

 

Going home and doing nothing until May won't work. That much I do know. Tojaz's post about knowing when to fight is very true. If you push at him now, you will just push him further away. If you go back and try to play the 'perfect' wife hoping he will see sense this won't work either.

 

Right now you are in panic mode. You can't make good decisions while you are this way. The same way he can't make good life decisions if he is feeling 'depressed'..

 

The situation has the potential to be explosive. If it gets that way it's game over. You may think you can go back home and stay in control of the situation. You probably think at least it's not out of sight out of mind so that's good. I don't believe it is good. I don't believe that will stay in full control until May. When you are walking on eggshells trying to avoid things, that is when it all blows up in your face.

 

Just send him the text I mentioned earlier. Then spend the next few days trying to get yourself under control...Then we can try come up with step 2. Right now you are trying to resolve everything quickly. This won't work longterm.

 

Try view this as a long term strategy to save your marriage. Picture 12 months down the line. You are single and depressed wondering why you did A, B and C. Full of regret. You don't want to go down the route. You have made mistakes but now its CRUCIAL you don't make any more. To avoid mistakes you have to think clearly which you are incapable of doing right now. When people made choices in panic mode it just makes a volatile situation worse..

 

Time to take a step back Jenny..Sadly it seems you are not able to absorb what we are trying to tell you..

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I get not to fight as that has pushed him into a corner and how tojaz suggested i not bring it up, but if im not to bring it up, not to fight, notti try to be the perfect wife what is the balance? Like I said Im not functioning on much sleep but I am not going to move out either. I plan on staying even if he goes. I need to figure out step 2 soon because I will be going home in a few days ad i need to figure out how to deal/handle things

[Mack05]

I get not to fight as that has pushed him into a corner and how tojaz suggested i not bring it up, but if im not to bring it up, not to fight, notti try to be the perfect wife what is the balance? Like I said Im not functioning on much sleep but I am not going to move out either. I plan on staying even if he goes. I need to figure out step 2 soon because I will be going home in a few days ad i need to figure out how to deal/handle things

 

Well for me space is a MUST. You seem to have your mind made out about going home. If that's the route you want to Jenny not sure I can help with step 2, as I REALLY don't agree with step 1. If you go home it will combust. I am so sure of this. When your walking on eggshells, it simply doesn't work.

 

I am sure you are hoping a few days on his own stewing on what his friends said, might do the trick. I don't believe it will. For this marriage to work going forward your husband is going to need a fundamental change in his personality. This doesn't take a few days or weeks.

 

I have said this over and over, but sometimes we need to make hard choices and sacrifices. That is what moving out (until May) would be. It's not ideal (far from it) but I truly believe it's the best way forward. I can't see how this ends well with you moving back..

 

The definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. What you have done the past 4 months hasn't worked Jenny. What makes you think the next 2 months will be any different?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I dont know but I dont want to lose that apartment and moving out into something else less ideal would hurt me in many ways!

 

If he is going to go anyway why should i long term move out?

 

I guess I have a hard time seeing how me moving out will help our marriage. Isnt that just making it easier for him to divorce me and move on?

 

He is not the type to chase me so I guess im just not seeing how me leaving will help us!

[Yasuandio]

I dont know but I dont want to lose that apartment and moving out into something else less ideal would hurt me in many ways!

 

If he is going to go anyway why should i long term move out?

 

I guess I have a hard time seeing how me moving out will help our marriage. Isnt that just making it easier for him to divorce me and move on?

 

He is not the type to chase me so I guess im just not seeing how me leaving will help us!

 

 

Think about what drove you out in the first place. Do you want to be around a man that is saying he is going to divorce you? That does not seem to be a good climate for you - since you were contimplating taking pills. As the Divorce Buster's site suggests, it time to "DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT." "Go Dark" for awhile. Homer McDonald may be too much for you. Please study the Divorce Buster's site. You have an opportunity right now to show him what life would be like if he had his wish for divorce and a life without you with NC. Screw the apartment. There are other apartments. Stay away for awhile. Listen to Mack.

[Mack05]

I dont know but I dont want to lose that apartment and moving out into something else less ideal would hurt me in many ways!

 

If he is going to go anyway why should i long term move out?

 

I guess I have a hard time seeing how me moving out will help our marriage. Isnt that just making it easier for him to divorce me and move on?

 

He is not the type to chase me so I guess im just not seeing how me leaving will help us!

 

If you love the apartment I don't think you should give it up. I'm not saying this. You can sign a new lease on your own in May, if things don't work out the way you hope. John has agreed to move anyway, so there is no reason why you can't keep the apartment long term. I am saying find a short term place until May.

 

Right now you are between a rock and a hard place. If you move back in at some stage there will be (not might, will be) an explosive confrontation. The kind of confrontation that usually means the end of a relationship. In metaphorical terms your marriage is at the edge of a cliff. The slightest push and it goes over. When you are on eggshells its incredible how we run right into the thing(s) that we are trying to avoid.

 

I am not saying moving out for 2 months will save your marriage. What I am saying is that IMO it is your best chance. Space and distance will allow you gain clarity. Its incredible how we view things differently when we are not emotional. When we are not under constant pressure. Would it be hard? Probably the biggest challenge of your life. But how we respond to these challenges determines the kind of life we end up living.

 

For me space is step 1. Not a few days or a few weeks. Step 2, I honestly don't know yet. We all could bounce idea's off each other for the next 1-2 months. For me communication is crucial. Throughout he needs to know you want this marriage more then anything. He needs to know you want to keep the apartment. He needs to know you won't grant a divorce without marriage counselling. He needs know you feel its best to have space, so that you both can breathe. He needs to know how sorry you are and that this will never happen again. He needs to know you love him with all your heart. Etc etc etc.

 

For me I would write all this down in a letter. I would take at least a week to put this letter together. If you make a change to this letter, I would then wait 24-48 hours before sending/giving it. Only send it when you are 110% happy. Once the letter is sent you go NC (no contact) until May and make sure he is aware of this.

 

This is just my opinion Jenny. I have relationship splits and handled them all wrong, so this is experience talking. There is no easy fix here. What you need to do is give yourself the best chance. I know giving him 'space' doesn't feel like fighting, but it is..More than you can understand right now..

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Mack dont you think the explosive argument already happened sunday night? He actually called his friends because they were cops and he thought i was harrasing him! I called him names i even asked if he was gay? Lol not wise i know!

 

Writing a letter seems repetitive only because I have written and poured my heart out letters but then still gone and fought after the fact with him.

 

I just dont know i feel like nothing "feels" right. I wonder if there is a law that if I leave the apt i have deserted it? I really have no where to go for 2 mths and not sure I can fund a place on my own but i dont know for sure.

 

Isnt it a sign hes done because he hasnt called or texted? Or that he doesnt care? Its hard to fight a lost cause

 

I just keep thinking "who is this man"? He was the best husband ever and now the coldest. Please everyone chime in here I need all the help I can get! The 2 mths NC scares me to death

[Jennyfromtheblick]

I have such a short amount of time to hopefully save this marriage. I can't afford mistakes

[Mack05]

Mack dont you think the explosive argument already happened sunday night? He actually called his friends because they were cops and he thought i was harrasing him! I called him names i even asked if he was gay? Lol not wise i know!

 

Writing a letter seems repetitive only because I have written and poured my heart out letters but then still gone and fought after the fact with him.

 

I just dont know i feel like nothing "feels" right. I wonder if there is a law that if I leave the apt i have deserted it? I really have no where to go for 2 mths and not sure I can fund a place on my own but i dont know for sure.

 

Isnt it a sign hes done because he hasnt called or texted? Or that he doesnt care? Its hard to fight a lost cause

 

I just keep thinking "who is this man"? He was the best husband ever and now the coldest. Please everyone chime in here I need all the help I can get! The 2 mths NC scares me to death

 

I have such a short amount of time to hopefully save this marriage. I can't afford mistakes

 

 

Jenny this is my point. You called him gay in an argument. I mean that's just you helping to hammer the nails into the coffin..That is beyond immature. How does this help him believing that he is right to stay with you? All your doing is driving a bigger wedge between the two of you, that's already there.

 

I think it's far more of a sign when he said he longer trusts you or doesn't love you. I for one wouldn't expect a call, especially after you insulted him! Again try view things from his side. Also he probably recognises what I am telling you. Space is needed.

 

How did you guys resolve conflict in the past? I ask cause I really don't like how you resolve conflict now. Poor communication and little thought to the consequences of what you are actually saying to each other.

 

The past two arguments by your own admission you have lost control a bit. All this does is reaffirm that he is right to leave you. Do I think the BIG argument has happened yet? Nope. I'm 99.99999% sure that there is worse to come if you move back in. You have lost all logical thinking Jenny. You are reacting without thinking (I used to be like this). A recipe for disaster.

 

If you stay (i.e move back in a few days) I can assure you it will get worse before it gets better. Sure you might have some days where you are a little friendly but its only a matter of time (based on what we have seen) before you lose your cool. If you lose your cool again the damage could be irreversible. It might already be.

 

You say you can't afford mistakes, yet by moving back in that is exactly what you are doing. If you can't fund it, I say find a way. Get a loan, whatever. I mean two months rent? What are we talking about 1500 bucks? (you will get a deposit back). If it were my marriage and I was under financial pressure, I'd stay in a hostel with 8 people in a dorm. That's how hard I'd be willing to work. This is about your marriage and nothing should be more important to you then that.

 

You are just looking for excuses for not moving out. What law says you can't move back in after two months. John seems like a reasonable guy. I can't imagine him being vindictive here.

 

Of course nothing feels right. Your husband is threatening divorce. If you look it through his black and white eyes (his wife talks dirty to strangers and calls him gay) then he is probably right to leave. You need to convince him he is wrong to leave. You can't do this if you move back (right now). You will try too hard and after a period of walking on eggshells you will eventually snap. After you snap you will drive him away for good. He is right on the edge.

 

Please Jenny think about this...To think properly you need space..and plenty of it.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

In the past we resolved conflict by talking and listening to each other. We really never had major conflict we always stayed cool headed and calm.

 

I don't know what happened. I guess I'm so desperate to make things work when it doesn't go my way I freak out and say hurtful things. Why? Because I'm hurting not because I mean them.

 

How do I know if it's already to late?

 

I only asked about the law because I have heard people say whatever you do don't leave the home first! I do agree we need space and I do think I have made things worse. Just not sure I can undo it by doing nothing. Please bare with me I'm just scared, alone, hurt etc you already know all of that.

 

Is it ok to go home while hes at work to get stuff?

[Yasuandio]

Jenny, listen to Mack. I know what you are going through. I said and did unbelievable things because my former husband withdrew affection from me. This conduct did NOTHING to resolve things. In fact, I am ashamed of the things I have done and said. I was hurting so bad - and nothing was happening - and I just had to scream out anything to get a reaction. And my tonge is so sharp and wreched - and I know how to hit low.

 

Nothing is worse than having affection withdrawn - it can almost drive you insane. That is why you MUST stay away. I tell you, I seriously was capable of commiting a crime - the pain was so bad. So please, listen to Mack and I, there is no good that will come from the next eight week under the present curcumstances! To be in his midst will be torture - and you have already shown that you cannot control yourself (as I could not control my mouth either - so you are not alone). Do the right thing. Listen to people that have been through this before.

 

I now seriously regret my past behaviors Jenny. I should have gotten a separation before I started opening my mouth and letting the devil get in me. But it has taken me four years and a toxic divorce for me to realize my active participation in the demise of the relationship. There were other steps I could have taken, but I chose, wrongly, to stay in his effing face, stick up for myself, and FIGHT like hell. Please listen to us, Jenny. Put the distance there so if a resolution is possible, it will happen without any other damages. Yas

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Yas do you mean resolution as in saving marriage or divorcing?

 

I don't know what I would do w/o LS. I have nowhere to turn but here.

[Mack05]

In the past we resolved conflict by talking and listening to each other. We really never had major conflict we always stayed cool headed and calm.

 

I don't know what happened. I guess I'm so desperate to make things work when it doesn't go my way I freak out and say hurtful things. Why? Because I'm hurting not because I mean them.

 

How do I know if it's already to late?

 

I only asked about the law because I have heard people say whatever you do don't leave the home first! I do agree we need space and I do think I have made things worse. Just not sure I can undo it by doing nothing. Please bare with me I'm just scared, alone, hurt etc you already know all of that.

 

Is it ok to go home while hes at work to get stuff?

 

Jenny what you are feeling is totally understandable. I know we can say hurtful things when we are hurting. That doesn't make it right though. My last ex was very abusive. The one thing I was very proud of was that I never stooped to her level, even though she was hurtful and a hell of a lot more messed up then I ever was. It would have been easy to take cheap shots at her but I didn't.

 

The question you outlined above you don't need to ask advice on. You need to step up Jenny. Show him a 'strong' and confident you. Right now you are incapable of that. You have completely lost emotional control, so how does moving back in help your cause? Any tactics you use he will see right through it and you will come across 'fake'.

 

If somehow you do agree to space try reading relationship books. 'Why can't you read my mind' (relationship communication) and go suck a lemon (emotional maturity) I found very useful. Working on self improvement when it's the last thing you feel like doing, does wonders for self belief. The thing here is Jenny it's not just your husband that needs to make changes. You do too. Right now you are too blase. "Well I am hurting so that's why I called him gay". Excuses in this spot are not good enough. It doesn't matter if we don't mean hurtful things. The damage caused can be immense.

 

Keeping our cool when we are hurting is a huge sign of emotional maturity. It is that maturity now you need to show. It's not going to go your way for awhile. Are you always going to lash out, when things don't go the way you want? If that's the case you will be lashing out for quite some time and eventually there will be no one to lash out at.

 

If I were you I would be focusing all my energy on getting him into counselling. Being the perfect wife, walking on eggshells, then trying to get him to open up are not working and won't work. For me the objective is getting him into counselling. This would be a huge win for you.

 

I know you are scared. It's horrible that you are going through this. BUT if your marriage can survive. It will make it stronger..Marriages have come back from worse but you need to change things up.

 

You know it's too late when the divorce papers are signed. Until then you vow to win the biggest fight of your life. You can do this. If you don't believe you may as well sign the papers now.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

How the hell do I get him in counseling? I have asked and even his friends told him he needs to go but he refuses.

[Mack05]

How the hell do I get him in counseling? I have asked and even his friends told him he needs to go but he refuses.

 

That is the BIG question Jenny. There are many ways to skin a cat. Lets look at Plan A. The past 4 months. You did nice things, tried to talk to him, sent him letters. Asked him to counselling. Result. He refuses.

 

Now say you go back and adjust Plan A slightly. What do you think will happen? I will tell you. More busts up and he leaves in May. You probably get divorced down the line. Plan A doesn't work. Even if it worked in the past, it is not working now and in all probability it's not going to work.

 

This is why I am suggesting Plan B. You move out until May. You are clear and concise as to why you feel its best for you both. You are clear you want this marriage more than anything. Then you go strict NC. Time apart means he is on his own. He gets to see what his life is without you. He also has space to process everything. His friends in his ear.

 

Jen I think you guys are early 30's? Believe me it sucks to be single in your early 30's. That assumption you meet someone and get happily married all of a sudden isn't a guarantee. Not only that in your 30's when you are out, you feel like you are 15 years too late for the prom. This forces him to look at the realisation that he might lose his best friend forever. Not only that he gets home, his job continues to be tough and he has no one to share his fears with. All this can be a serious reality check.

 

Now with time apart he might be prepared to let you go (but he is willing to do that anyway it seems) OR he might just come around to the idea of counselling. If you can get him to counselling it means the door is slightly ajar. I don't believe that he no longer loves you. I really don't. I think in his head he wants to leave and by telling you he doesn't love you, he probably thinks you will let him go.

 

You need to do everything in your power to get him to counselling. If Plan Z involves knocking him out with a shovel and dragging him to counselling then Plan Z it is . Just let me know where you live and I will sort it

 

Joking apart, sometimes Jenny we don't know what is best for us. So many people have regrets and I think if you guys divorce, John will regret it down the line. I keep saying this, but you have to be incredibly strong here. I know it feels like you are shouldering 99% of the burden, but sometimes in marriages that has to happen.

 

Somehow, someway you have to snap him out of this 'funk'. I'm telling you he is not thinking clearly. This has a lot more to do with dirty talk. It's like he is looking for an escape from his life and is looking for someone to put the blame on. Leaving won't make his life better, only worse.

 

Just remember the greatest and sweetest of victories are those won from the jaws of defeat.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mack05

[Jennyfromtheblick]

Trying to take it in! He has actually admitted even if we divorce it wont fix this... I think some of this has to do with ego too. And im sure his ex who cheated by doing this same thing ( only mine was fake) triggers something. He feels everytime he trusts ppl then hurt him and to be honest he is right. His solution is isolate the hurter. He cant deal with hurt even though its a part of life.

[Mack05]

Trying to take it in! He has actually admitted even if we divorce it wont fix this... I think some of this has to do with ego too. And im sure his ex who cheated by doing this same thing ( only mine was fake) triggers something. He feels everytime he trusts ppl then hurt him and to be honest he is right. His solution is isolate the hurter. He cant deal with hurt even though its a part of life.

 

True Jenny. He needs to understand divorcing you is not going to fix with is wrong with him. Indeed it will make it worse..

 

Try get a good night's sleep. Nice long bath and a glass of white wine should help.

[Yasuandio]

Trying to take it in! He has actually admitted even if we divorce it wont fix this... I think some of this has to do with ego too. And im sure his ex who cheated by doing this same thing ( only mine was fake) triggers something. He feels everytime he trusts ppl then hurt him and to be honest he is right. His solution is isolate the hurter. He cant deal with hurt even though its a part of life.

 

 

Everyone has had issues in their life and past relationships. It is stupid to project the future of your mariage based on these past experiences the moment there is a disagreement or crisis. He needs to grow up.

 

What Mack is proposing is an opportunity for him to do just this - grow up. Find out what life is like without his Jenny - whom he knows very well just made a dumb mistake - and his big fat ego is about to screw himself. Listen to Mack - and do not attempt to psycho-analyze poor John, and his past. His past is long gone and he is a grown man now. He need to get over it, and stop being a big baby. And you need to stop running to his rescue and pasifying him.

 

If he doesn't grow up, he will not be a good husband in the future - you will always be on pins and needles that he is capable of withdrawing his love and affection - just like that. In fact, I think you should really think seriously about that very issue. If I heard those words - I would always be suspect.

 

PS I think thee is something else going on here. I think thee John dost protest too much, ya know what I mean? It is possible there is something none of us know.