A rock and a hard place would be better than here...

[1lonelyguy]

Hello Forums,

 

I belonged to another forum which didn't get hardly any traffic and I didn't get the insights I needed to keep me going back there... This post is going to be LONG and is going to have the whole story from my perspective.. I welcome, flaming, through the internet backhanded slaps, support, words of wisdom/encouragement. I can use anything about now...

 

Here goes from the top...

 

Met Jan 2007, Blind date, Became friends, Feb 8th Became an item. Lived over an hour from each other so only saw each other 2-3 times a week. Talked long hours over the phone, racked up a $500 phone bill. Fell head over heels in love with her.

 

Jan 2008 Engaged, During this year, the sex was hot, the conversations were plentiful and the relationship was your typical fairy tale setup.

 

August 2008 Married, Not just once but twice... Once in an outdoor wedding once in a small church ceremony.

 

Aug 08-09, bought a house, remodeled it, got a dog, tried having a baby. No luck on the child front. Frustrated we went to specialists, had tests etc... All came back with clean bills of fertility for both of us. Befuddled we continued to try everything under the sun.. No luck.. This is where breakdown #1 occurred.. Slowly our sex life went from having passionate love making with each other to, sex for a child. Robotic and boring. Shortly thereafter I noticed a significant drop in W's desire to have sex. Meanwhile another issue had blossomed. We rarely fought, and when I say rare I mean once or twice in a year did we have an argument. Me (passive passive) Her (passive aggressive) had very few crisis in our M. No financial issue, no issues with child rearing, no loyalty issue, no abuse issues etc... This lead to a sharp decline in our communications with each other, coupled with the lack of passion and no sex and......

 

Jan 2010 Bomb Drop Her "I love you but I am not in love with you".

Me "do you want to be in love with me still?"

Her "With all my heart"

 

Feb 2010-May 2010 We co to counseling she swears she will never consider divorce, read books, go on a retreat, hash things out and (in my mind) get back on track to a healthy fruitful M. Things are going well in bed, we are communicating more, taking time to go to counseling together.. the counselor gives us a clean bill of marital status after 4 visits and dismisses us.. (Huge mistake #1) In this whole time period I think things are going incredibly well.. Wife is writing me love notes all the time, initiating sex, I am initiating conversations etc... She writes me a card for my birthday stating "I am so lucky to be able to fall in love over and over again with someone as amazing as you". I am on cloud 9....

 

June 2010- Jan 2012 Things start to change, and I (in denial) do NOTHING (Huge mistake #2). Through the summer of '10 things were good, my business was making $$$$$$. Then in the fall we decide to sell our house and get a smaller mortgage to be 100% debt free (a dream of ours since we got rid of all car/credit debt). We put our house on the market and sell it in 5 days for asking price... In a scramble we try to find suitable living, we fall in love with a house, put an offer on it and they decline it @ full asking because they don't want the septic/well tested... W was heartbroken and we settled for a renting a cute small cabin. Move in, start hiking more, getting in shape etc... About this time the sex slows to nothing, the in depth conversations stop and my business takes a huge hit. I start working at her family business. We at this point are spending 22 hours a day together (HUGE mistake #3).

 

Feb 2012-July 27th 2012 And now for the dismount.... Wife becomes easily irritable, sex is forced if at all from her.. We go on a romantic getaway for Valentines day and she is loving yet not into "loving".. And yet I STILL do nothing to confront it... On my 30th birthday (May 2nd) she writes me a B-day card saying that she is in a funk but that she has a really good feeling about the rest of the year and that she cannot imagine herself on this journey with anyone else but me. During this time, we are still together 22 hours a day, my biz is failing and in denial I do not get another job.. We start having financial stress and she for the first time in 5 years becomes the financial security person in the relationship. I admit my fault to her and begin looking for a job. In my mind at this point I feel something is wrong but convince myself that its just a phase, partly because I don't want to go through ILYBINILWY again and partly because she is telling me all is okay in letters and cards. But I should have known better because.....

 

July 27th 2012 "A day which will live in infamy"... W had gone to train running with her aunt and a training partner brought her Nephew... W was "instantly attracted" to him in a "sexual way I have not felt for you in years".. I was in shock... she had not had any contact with him besides that day, no affair etc... After that day EVERYTHING changed.. up until that point she was calling me "babe", Making out with me, grabbing for my hand etc.. (I am an acts of affection LL). she agrees to take this seriously, wants to stay married but says for the first time she feels we might be better off divorced and just friends.. I don't beg, I don't plead and I simply ask her if she will try a different counselor who will not dismiss us and try to get to the root. She agrees and I tell her if she really wants to she needs to make the appointment. She does..

 

Aug 2012 - Jan 2012 We go to intensive therapy together for 5 months. During this time the therapist says

 

"I have seen this situation 100 different ways and all of them were worse off than your situation. You have the friendship, loyalty, honesty, communication capabilities and lack of betrayal/abuse. IF you want this to work, and you want the flames of passion back its going to take TIME and WORK but it is completely possible."

 

During this time I start to change, VERY slowly but I try to stop avoiding conflict, being proactive about my health ( am in the best shape of my life now) and find a great job (plus start a new business which is already infinitely more successful than the last).

 

In Dec W tells me she sees no alternative than to try separating. Counselor disappointed agrees that she will do her best to help us transition.. I tell her its not something I agree with but if its what she decides to do I cannot stop her. I tell her we are on opposite sides of a rainbow and both of us are looking for the other to come to our side.. Her is a lasting friendship, mine is a lasting marriage...

 

We make it through the Holidays and then break it to our families that we are separating but staying married. In my heart I am dying, it literally feels like my heart is being pureed in a blender. She finds a place with her sister and moves in Jan 15th.. 7 years after we met and fell in love.. Its hard to get up and look next to me and not see her..

 

Feb 1st I move into a house with my brother and here I am... I have found an IC and am going to him weekly now. He without invalidating my W's decisions tells me that something doesn't make sense and that he would like to get her perspective if I would feel comfortable with it. And that's where I am now..

 

I have access to all the phone records etc.... I know she has been faithful through all of this. We see each other regularly, have the same friends, her family adores me etc... she said that she wants to start dating again with me after the separation settles in for the two of us. So that confuses me as well...

 

IF you have made it through this whole story I applaud and thank you... Just writing all of this out has helped me immensely, I just had a good cry while pouring my hear on here, it feels cleansing..

 

So onward with any thoughts, ideas, hugs, flaming.. I will take anything at this point, all of my friends, family, co-workers are too biased and all say that it doesn't make any sense... I NEED SOME SENSE HERE..

 

Thanks...

 

1LG

[Yasuandio]

Sounds to me that she wanted to explore life outside the marriage before when she said she lybwnilwy. Then when the Nephew situation came along, there was the major hint of her dissatisfaction, and longing for something new - could be mid-life-crisis kind of thing.

 

Now, I know that this is sort of an obvious statement, once again, but, sounds to me like she wants to explore life outside the marriage - and this time - she is really serious. This "friends," stuff is just to soften the blow, as she does love you - and doesn't want to hurt you. But, she is out the door, period.

 

The only thing you can do is support and agree with exactly what she wants. You will not be able to convince her to stay without making yourself look needy. I recommend you research Homer McDonald (3 sentence method), and google his name with the word "interviews." There you will find 5 tape-recorded interviews that give you some of Homer's basic concepts, along with readings. It takes some time to really absorb this material and put it into practical application. But this counter-intuitive approach is the best technique out there to eventually get your wife back.

 

Thus far - you have been doing well. Also look up the 180's. I hope this helps. Listen to those Homer tapes one at a time - ten times over. It took me a year to finially get it.

[imtooconfused]

Hi LG, I just want you to know that I did read the whole thing. And I really feel for you, without question. It's hard to understand why someone feels the way they do, especially when you see things completely differently. I unfortunately don't have any explanations to help make sense of it for you. In a lot of ways, in my relationship, I am more like your wife. The spark is no longer there and is not likely to come back. There are a multitude of reasons, not any one of which is earth shattering, but which in total break the spirit.

 

Have you talked to the MC on an individual basis? This counselor was involved in your relationship "intensively" for 5 months, listened to your wife in an unbiased way and may have a better balanced perspective than anyone else on what is going through your wife's mind.

[1lonelyguy]

Hi LG, I just want you to know that I did read the whole thing. And I really feel for you, without question. It's hard to understand why someone feels the way they do, especially when you see things completely differently. I unfortunately don't have any explanations to help make sense of it for you. In a lot of ways, in my relationship, I am more like your wife. The spark is no longer there and is not likely to come back. There are a multitude of reasons, not any one of which is earth shattering, but which in total break the spirit.

 

Have you talked to the MC on an individual basis? This counselor was involved in your relationship "intensively" for 5 months, listened to your wife in an unbiased way and may have a better balanced perspective than anyone else on what is going through your wife's mind.

 

 

First off I want to thank you two for commenting... I am working very hard on losing some of my neediness and working on being more self reliant. I am also making sure not to block or fight her decisions but to let he know its not what I want but if it is what you feel you need to do than so be it..

 

As for the MC, she told me in a private email after I was asking several questions that W seems to have little or no desire to "work" on figuring out where the "spark" went. That all I can do is stay out of her way and continue to work on ME. Which I already know is a win win, either she feels those feelings for me again, or I become a more attractive person to myself and other potential companions.

 

Next I wanted to ask a quick couple questions...

 

W keeps (IMO) keeping her foot in the door.. By telling me she wants to go on "dates" that she "wants to keep wearing our rings", that "if she starts feeling those attractions towards me again that she is in a month to month lease so she is not committing to anything" etc......

 

Is this because she is letting me down slow or because she is still a little shaky about her decision and using it as a safety net?

 

Do I continue to just go with the flow or do I take it to the next level?

 

I have not had a lover in 9 months, during which I have had a few chances to be unfaithful, but have chosen the high road and remained faithful.

 

Do I have a right to feel angry that she said she felt the attraction slip before we even got married and still married me?

 

In a perfect world we would get back together, my neediness, insecurities and conflict avoidance would be gone and her curiosity would be gone hand her flames for me would be back...

 

I know I haven't forgiven her for marrying me when she knew something was already off, for leading me on with her letters and cards. Dam is it hard to forgive when someone hasn't even asked to me forgiven and shows no signs of being sorry just says she is sad she is hurting me...

 

1LG

 

PS I just googled Homer McDonald... Can't wait to start listeneing...

Edited February 9, 2013 by 1lonelyguy

[Mr. Lucky]

In a perfect world we would get back together, my neediness, insecurities and conflict avoidance would be gone and her curiosity would be gone hand her flames for me would be back...

I think it's a mistake to make this about you. You're not perfect and neither was your marriage - that just makes you like all the rest of us. And yet our spouses are committed to our relationships and willing to take the dips and valleys in stride whereas yours is not.

 

It sounds like there is an emotional immaturity on her part, almost a personality defect. Some people just can't successfully bond - they go through the motions (hence the cards and "I love you texts") but the glue just doesn't hold when stressed.

 

The bad news is that there may be nothing you can do about your current situation but let it play out. And while you hope for the best, I'd plan for the worst. You should get legal, financial and therapeutic advice that assumes you'll be single. Only time will tell. Good luck and keep posting...

 

Mr. lucky

[1lonelyguy]

Well, I have been listening to Homer McDonald and I dare say its tough to swallow at best, but logical at the same time..

 

My IC is an amazing man, I will have him listen to this as well and tell me what he thinks..

 

Until then I try not to initiate any contact, stay happy and keep trying to better myself..

 

Forgiveness is the next step IMO even though she has yet to say sorry... Though to say the least but its only hurting me...

[imtooconfused]

1lonelyguy, I am sorry that I missed your response from a few days ago. Since no one seems to have attempted to answer your questions...

 

Next I wanted to ask a quick couple questions...

 

W keeps (IMO) keeping her foot in the door.. By telling me she wants to go on "dates" that she "wants to keep wearing our rings", that "if she starts feeling those attractions towards me again that she is in a month to month lease so she is not committing to anything" etc......

 

Is this because she is letting me down slow or because she is still a little shaky about her decision and using it as a safety net?

 

Only she knows why she is doing what she is doing. She seems to have mystified even the MC. But it sounds like she doesn't really know what her feelings are. She didn't seem to be happy in the home together, but she is not sure if being away is any better until she experiences it. The safety net answer is probably the best explanation. Is that fair to you? Not really.

 

I have not had a lover in 9 months, during which I have had a few chances to be unfaithful, but have chosen the high road and remained faithful.

 

I know it's the lonely road but it's probably best to avoid any new relationships during this phase. It would be unfair to involve anyone new to your trouble and turmoil of this relationship. This would rule out just about anything other than a fling or a friend, and a friend (without benefits) is what you really need right now.

 

Do I continue to just go with the flow or do I take it to the next level?

 

I don't know what the Home McDonald approach is, so I cannot speak to what he recommends. I know it sounds cliche, but now is a time for you to focus on becoming a better you. I know you have already worked on your health. That's great but continue along that path. Learn more about what 1LG likes, doesn't like. Take up a hobby or a sport. Try to meet new people and enjoy their company. This will help you be more confident in yourself and more attractive to your wife and/or others.

 

Do I have a right to feel angry that she said she felt the attraction slip before we even got married and still married me?

 

Of course you have the right to feel angry. There no question about that due to the way she treated you and continues to treat you. But what does it gain you to dwell on that anger. It certainly won't help bring her back, if that is the path that you choose. Forgiveness will be hard to come by, but acceptance can eventually replace the anger.

 

The only concrete advice that I can give you is that if you chose to begin "dating" again, that I would recommend that you resume couples counseling. At some point she may share what is causing her to be so confused about her feelings and it would most likely to happen under professional guidance.

[todreaminblue]

I am sorry you are having a rough time, I dont believe in separation i dont think it sorts anything out, the gap just widens......seperate get back together and then separate again when things get rough instead of standing together and working the crap out together....thats what i beleive marriage is.......a pattern emerges of the easy route which is to say ...nah not working out lets separate, live separately to work out issues we have about living together...ummm....is that logical...i dont see it..........but thats my opinion based on failed relationships.......I hope that everything works out for you and your wife....deb

[GuyInLimbo]

Sounds to me that she wanted to explore life outside the marriage before when she said she lybwnilwy. Then when the Nephew situation came along, there was the major hint of her dissatisfaction, and longing for something new - could be mid-life-crisis kind of thing.

 

Now, I know that this is sort of an obvious statement, once again, but, sounds to me like she wants to explore life outside the marriage - and this time - she is really serious. This "friends," stuff is just to soften the blow, as she does love you - and doesn't want to hurt you. But, she is out the door, period.

 

 

30 sounds a tad early for a mid-life crisis.

 

Unfortunately, i also agree that she's done for good and you've been permanently relegated to the Friend Zone. You being in IC is exactly what you need. You need to go through the grieving process and move on and find happiness with someone else.

 

I'm sorry you are going through this.

[worldgonewrong]

Any wife who straight-up tells you she has the hots for another guy - regardless if she's acting on it or not - DOES NOT respect you.

Marriage is based upon mutual respect, kindness.

Right now, you're understandably crushed; the woman you thought you loved just...isn't there anymore. She's checked out, and most likely for good.

Her talk about "dating" you and all is horsepucky. It's a marriage; she's either in or out.

Don't let her have her cake & eat it too.

Don't make yourself a doormat by extending your feelings. She doesn't respect you and she doesn't care, period. If she cared, she wouldn't be breaking your heart so completely right now.

There's another woman out there right now, somewhere, who would flipping ADORE you. She's waiting. Don't waste your time on a walkaway-wife.

[1lonelyguy]

So I have completely given into the truth that is my wife has relegated be to the friend zone... My heart aches but I know its temporary.. I just need to start putting one foot in front of the other... I have a few things I would love some insight onto what I should do...

 

1) Taking the next step... When we decided on a trial separation W said she "Wanted to stay married and wearing her rings and to go out on dates together again", well she still has her rings on, we are still married but I know I am not ever going to have her as a committed wife ever again if I keep trying to ask her on dates etc... That being said I also feel like I cannot convince myself to go on dates and put myself out there like Homer says without legalizing our separation.. I would feel disloyal and thats something I will never be, on the other hand part of me wants to make her take the final steps in closing our marriage because I truly do not want it to end and if she does then she can go through the pains of making it happen... Is this just punishing myself??

 

2) How do I maintain a friendship because we will see eachother all the time even when the M ends...

[Mr. Lucky]

I would feel disloyal and thats something I will never be

Loyalty is a two-way street that implies she's returning the feeling. Since she's pushing the separation, that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

1lonelyguy, you can't have it both ways. If you sit on your duff, do nothing and try to wait her out as she works through this, you'll have to accept the pain of loneliness and the feeling of being stuck in limbo. Personally, I'd rather move ahead with legalizing the separation (a reversible process if you get back together) so I at least felt I had some control over my life and choices before me.

 

Only you can decide what feels best for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GuyInLimbo]

So I have completely given into the truth that is my wife has relegated be to the friend zone... My heart aches but I know its temporary.. I just need to start putting one foot in front of the other... I have a few things I would love some insight onto what I should do...

 

1) Taking the next step... When we decided on a trial separation W said she "Wanted to stay married and wearing her rings and to go out on dates together again", well she still has her rings on, we are still married but I know I am not ever going to have her as a committed wife ever again if I keep trying to ask her on dates etc... That being said I also feel like I cannot convince myself to go on dates and put myself out there like Homer says without legalizing our separation.. I would feel disloyal and thats something I will never be, on the other hand part of me wants to make her take the final steps in closing our marriage because I truly do not want it to end and if she does then she can go through the pains of making it happen... Is this just punishing myself??

 

2) How do I maintain a friendship because we will see eachother all the time even when the M ends...

 

Dude, listen. The relationship is over and you aren't going to have any healthy friendship after this. Her keeping the rings on at this point is nonsense.

 

Also, you should not even think about dating right now. Your head and heart are in a bad place and you're in no position to get involved with someone. You're just not ready - signed papers or not. You need to be OVER this relationship first. And stop with this "being disloyal" crap. There's no relationship to remain loyal to.

 

And why will you see each other all the time anyway? You can be friendly acquaintances and say hi, but that's it. Otherwise, you're always going to be pining away for her and kicking yourself.

 

Waiting for her to get this process over with? Why? How about taking charge of YOUR life so you can move on? You're not saying it, but you're hoping that she will somehow come around and go running back to you if she feels any sort of guilt or regrets and second-guesses what she's doing. It's not going to happen, so why not man up and take care of #1?

 

Damn, I'm good today.

[Jstub]

You are getting really good advice here. Sometimes, you might not agree, or feel like, it's not how you feel, but please listen. People who are looking at your situation from the outside, can give you advice based on logic and not emotions.

 

With that said, you need to move on with your life. Do not wait around for her, even file for divorce. You do not need to be friends with this woman - you just DON'T - too many feelings involved. You can't get passed her, if you are friends with her, because deep down inside, you are still waiting around for her to change her mind.

 

I don't care how awesome she is, how hot she is, how smart she is. Look passed all of that and FOCUS on the NOW. Look at how she is treating you NOW - is she worth it???? OF COURSE NOT. Stop chasing a ghost - the woman you married is MIA (missing in action). The ONLY reason why she is keeping you in the loop, is in case she changes her mind. You are PLAN B. DO YOU WANT TO BE PLAN B?

 

Take control, move on and get yourself to the position of the DECISION MAKER. Let's say she comes back to you, BE IN THE POSITION TO DECIDE. "DO I WANT THIS WOMAN BACK?" "IS SHE WORTH THE RISK?".

 

I know, it's MUCH easier said than done. I have screwed up my own advice time and time again, but keep working on it, it will stick.

 

Keep posting and stay strong.

[1lonelyguy]

Well, the only reason we will see each other regularly is that we share our two dogs (kids without the child support payments). I have them most of the week but drop them off at her work during the days I work. We also are doing doggie obedience school right now.

 

Other than that I really do not have to see her besides the just passing by sort unless I decide to.

 

I have already decided I need to take the next step and tell her "I would love our marriage to work but I see that as impossible right now so I am taking the next step in our separation"... I know I am a hopeless optimist..

[coffeebean201]

There is a grief to separation/divorce.

 

You lose your best friend.

 

Hang out with good people and you will start to heal from this.

 

Sorry you are going through this.

Hugs

[imtooconfused]

I have already decided I need to take the next step and tell her "I would love our marriage to work but I see that as impossible right now so I am taking the next step in our separation"... I know I am a hopeless optimist..

 

That's a big decision. I am not saying it's right or wrong. But I want to caution you on one point. The optimist will think, "If I am serious about showing I want out of the marriage, she will see the light and recommit to me." That rarely happens. Don't even have that option in your planning. The most likely situation would be that the emotional separation becomes greater.

 

Having said that, she needs to know that to be married, you have to act like your married, and that takes more than "wearing rings." As long as you are comfortable being separated, it will show her that you don't feel you are currently in a marriage. It doesn't have to mean that you don't want to be married, but rather the reality of where the two of you are right now.

[1lonelyguy]

So I had a conversation with W this morning...

 

Told her " I would love to see our marriage work, but at this time I see it as impossible."

 

I was then denied my claim from insurance for the MC we had last year, and couldn't test our prototype tonight for my start up company... Tough day...

 

Took down the pictures of her in my car..

 

Told my parents I think that its going to end...

 

Wow, emotional roller coaster WHAT??? lol

[1lonelyguy]

Went online and researched no contest divorce procedure in my state... I am confident that this is the only way I can move on is to start this process.. It feels like a million horses trampling my heart but I know that its the only way for me to move on and feel at least some shred of dignity left..

 

I have 2 options.

 

1) Go for the abandonment clause which states that my wife has left the marital home or revoked sexual contact for a period of 1 year which would be around June for the no contact, and December for the Leaving of the Home.

 

2) Create a formal letter of separation and have it notarized and after 1 year we can finalize our no contest D...

 

Thoughts??

[1lonelyguy]

Sooooo, struggles.....

 

Took my Ring off after W didn't have hers on for 3 days, Told her I was drawing up a formal separation agreement for her to sign to begin the no contest D...

 

Then I told her I would need her to not contact me with the exception of dog conversations.. (Our 2 Kids)

 

She told me she wants to stay friends and I told her I am not sure if that is going to be possible..

 

Then yesterday she asks if I can take the dogs for the evening because she is going to dinner at the family's house who's nephew was the catalyst for the whole meltdown... I agree happily but on the inside I know felt the true reason behind taking the rings off...

 

This morning she calls knowing full well that I am off tomorrow asking if I want to keep the dogs overnight again... DUH.... But the kicker is she called from her parents house and made sure to let me know that her phone died last night and she didnt have her charger with her....

 

So now today I am trying to deal with the sick feeling in my stomach, the deep desire for someone to hold, and the feeling of betrayal....

[Oberfeldwebel]

This trickle relationship is going to make this very difficult. I know that this is not what you want to hear and it is meant to help not make the same mistakes that I made. You need to make a decision on who gets which dog and call it quits. They become a reminder of her and the hurt that she is inflicting on you. She wants to be friends to alleviate her quilt of moving on to a new relationship and not being benevolent. This has too end or you will suffer even longer. Just file and you no longer need to contact her....period. The sooner you start to heal the sooner you can get on to a good life that you deserve.

[Mr. Lucky]

This trickle relationship is going to make this very difficult. I know that this is not what you want to hear and it is meant to help not make the same mistakes that I made. You need to make a decision on who gets which dog and call it quits. They become a reminder of her and the hurt that she is inflicting on you. She wants to be friends to alleviate her quilt of moving on to a new relationship and not being benevolent. This has too end or you will suffer even longer. Just file and you no longer need to contact her....period. The sooner you start to heal the sooner you can get on to a good life that you deserve.

Good advice. OP, you ever rip a bandage off? You can do it slowly and prolong the agony or quickly and get the hurt over with. With her rings off and interest in pursuing another guy - the old "my phone died" excuse - you know how this is going to end up. Make the break, go NC with her and move on with your life...

 

Mr. Lucky