should i stop revenge affair

[dreamingoftigers]

Bull feathers.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Wow! Really?!?! That's kinda harsh. I mean, he screwed up big time and people have said that to him several times on this thread. But, that's just.....wow.

 

I agree. She has now become no better than him. But yes, he did screw up, so rather than complain, I think he just needs to forge forward with a divorce.

 

I don't think she owes him a damn thing. She broke it off when she found out about his MULTIPLE flings and is obviously at a pretty low point.

 

Has anyone else been through having a partner that has had MULTIPLE, detached purely sexual experiences?

 

It makes you wish that they had EAs. As a woman, we want to be sexual attractors etc. To go through years of no sex (mutual breakdown or not), discover that your husband is acting like a total sleaze-bag does nothing but completely deplete you on every level. At least with an EA you can dismiss it as being love/attraction that got out of hand. But with MULTIPLE FLINGS it sends a blunt message that you are no longer attractive by any stretch and that your man would rather PAY someone else to "massage" him etc than come home and romance you for free.

 

You end up feeling like a freak.

 

When my husband and I separated, the loser next door started trying to pick me up. I was so low by everything he had done that I was thisclose to letting it happen. The attention was like a drug after 3 years of pure deprivation. We were already on the road to divorce and he was in another city.

 

Truly, the only thing that stopped me was not "morality, regret fearing, or some artificial deadline that the state imposes on divorces due to spousal abandonment." It was Loveshack and seeing what happens when you get involved in any way when you are vulnerable during a marital breakdown. His wife's not on Loveshack.

 

Luckily for me, I've seen the train wreck ending to so many separation/dating circumstances that it allowed me to retain my sense enough until my husband clued into the fact that I wasn't chasing him. The potential OM in my case would have been an absolute disaster. But at least I knew that I had options available. Honestly, certain kinds of men can smell it when you are broken-hearted and vulnerable. And often women know that they are the short-term guy. The BW is already talking like OM is the rebound.

 

In my case, as soon as I started healing the potential OM became the foregone conclusion of undateable anyhow. Instead of focusing any time/energy in entertaining his propositions and relationship advances and focused on myself, he instantly dropped from my mind. Thank goodness. We had completely clashing values regarding child-rearing (he has two), substance abuse, legal/illegal activity and relationships. And I am not a fling-type person either. Thank goodness the support on Loveshack saw me through that isolated period of time.

 

My family is now back together as well, although that was many more months and lots of patience.

 

BW doesn't have any obligation to live as a nun until husband says otherwise. He shouldn't expect any better from her than he was willing to give her.

 

If I had ventured out of my marital vows, I don't believe my husband would've had a leg to stand on to complain. For years he treated me as less than zero. He agrees.

 

Separation without the intent to reconcile =/= cheating.

[Absewarrior]

lonely:

Please get a lawyer and live your own life...she has already moved on and you need to also. It is excellent that you are taking care of your daughters. Set up a child psychologist for them to talk to after you tell them together about the divorce. Make sure they are protected emotionally and talk to therapist to figure out right way to break the news.

Good luck

AW

[nofool4u]

I don't think she owes him a damn thing.

 

Its not about owing him. Its about owning it to herself to have some self respect. I don't care what the excuse, there is none for cheating.

 

If I knew a woman cheated on her husband, I wouldn't care if it was because he cheated on her first. All she has shown me is she has no qualms about cheating if she thinks the excuse is valid. I wouldn't bother with her.

 

Again, as far as I'm concerned, he has lost the right to complain and should just take steps to move on. But she has become no better than him and should have more respect for herself than to lower herself to what she has.

[dreamingoftigers]

I am not looking for targets not interested in dating, don't watch tv any more which I know I did to avoid fighting with her and since I didn't know how to fix marriage.[/Quote]

 

I read somewhere that you have an appointment with Divorce Busters. They are excellent. I used them myself and in specific Chuck gave me great advice. Dottie was good too. Lenny I did not click as well with but she did give some good pointers.

 

Have you read divorce remedy?

 

I actually think that your W does want the M but cannot handle the betrayal and now is very much influenced by the sex high she is getting with OM. After four years, that's going to be tough to walk away from. If you are serious about recon (like die-hard serious, very rare, but even more rare on this forum) than you'll have to wait it out and stay committed to your 180. Your choice. Don't let anyone push you around about it. It's your marriage. You have to live with it one way or the other.

 

I put years into my marriage and over a year into 180 until he got a hard enough thunk on the head to smarten up, which did not involve me. It was worth it. There is still some work left. But I married a sexual addict (unknowingly) and recovering alcoholic. His childhood was much more of a trainwreck than he even knew and admitted. My childhood was poor as well. No good role models. People with our history need a lot more work and patience. He is a very functional spouse now, puts in effort. Quite loving.

 

You may want to read a selection of other books, reading helped to keep me focused during my separation. Your wife lives next door, and yes, that can be absolute Hell. My husband and I even tried an in-home separation the summer before last and it was horrid. He eventually had to be kicked out. BUT I used every contact with him as an opportunity to sharpen and test my 180 and gain strength. I learned how not to be reactive to him. I learned not to pick up my phone 100% of the time. I learned how to clip conversations where he was baiting me to fight. I also learned how to empathize with him without carrying him through his own emotional mess. Most importantly: I learned how to stay out of his way. He led himself to his own destruction that he had previously tried to blame 100% on me. Without me in his way, he went down the path on his own and learned that he was a big part of his own problems. Then he started to take responsibility for them. It's Hell waiting. But if you are going through Hell, keep going.

 

I truly love her and am truly regretful. I did not have an EA at all with these people and I guess her EA I feel it is unfair. But yes she is building esteem from this. She had always said she didn't believe in divorce but now seems 100% committed to it. I just thought we'd try trio work it out but yes it is only two months and she is still deeply hurt.

 

That has got to quit. You want the M?

 

If so, the "her cheating is worse than mine" is ridiculous. It's a non-starter and a non-argument. Women don't tend to have purely sexual flings. The reason for this: we can't get off on it as much. We feel used, dirty, slutty, gross. There has to be some emotional connection. Even friendship or support. Unless your wife was a total closet sexual addict or it was a simple ONS. But a woman will rarely have a series of ONS.

 

Men typically cheat with the excuse that they "didn't get attached." For US, that is WORSE. That says you will risk the whole marriage for someone you couldn't even give a sh*t about. You're better off getting a girlfriend and claiming "emotional alienation and unmet needs because your mother never loved you enough and you forgot how special your wife was." (Don't try it, I'm just illustrating a point.

 

To her, your cheating is much worse. MULTIPLE people you couldn't give a crap about beyond what their bodies could do for you. To you, her cheating is much worse. It isn't about "fun." It's about replacing the emotional void not wanting you around brings. Guess what? You have an argument that NO ONE is going to win and everyone can feel like sh*t about.

 

Does it really matter if you flatten one tire of the car and she flattens another who made the flatter tire? No, you call a tow truck. You fix the problem. In this case it's that some jokers flatten tires on an otherwise still running car. Maybe not a great and sexy car, but one that could've been pimped out and fixed up.

 

You want the M? Follow how DB says to call that tow truck. Write down every number like your life depends on it. Don't sit and argue on the side of the road about her damn flattened tire and don't wail about how she's not calling the tow truck. (I'm am not saying that you are wailing).

 

I went for drinks for two hours last night just to chill out

And my babysitter texted her that she was watching children

She went crazy that I would use our babysitter to go out

I don't know if it is because I went out or because I didn't "clear" it with her

Or ??? But it was within the allotted hours for that day

 

I didn't even talk to anyone just chilled out

 

Yes I need to get away and give her space I will do that...

We have schedule that should help

 

Welcome to her flipping out. Her emotions are going to be all over the map. She didn't get to prepare for betrayal and that causes crazy traumas. You literally think that you are going crazy.

 

Here's the favor she did you: she let you know to Fu*k off before she got with OM.

 

You knew it was done.

 

She didn't when she found your photos. Her world collapsed and her neural connections went wild within seconds. I can't even explain to you how everything would've spiked, partially because you were on the other side first. Cheating isn't as threatening to you when you are doing it. But to her you might as well have lived in a harem for the last 11 years. Everything you did just came under question. Everything.

 

Did he really mean he loved at our wedding? Did he actually care that time on my birthday? Did he really have a headache that night or did he already have a fling etc.?

 

The whole enchilada looks toxic until it can be confirmed that maybe the cheese won't kill you.

 

Cheating isn't just sex or emotions etc. It isn't just "fun for a bit" to a betrayed partner. It is a complete undermining of the context of their world as they know it.

 

Janice Abrams in "After the Affair" does a pretty good job of describing it.

 

You can obviously relate to the flattening of self-esteem and having to build yourself up from it because your mate is, well, active with another.

 

But it seems that you are unable to empathize with all of the other pain (and even need to passive-aggressively attack you through this affair.)

 

It's also only been two months. This will lose steam. She is going to be living off of adrenaline and sadness for probably close to a year. The trauma is the steepest thing I have ever been through. Ever. I have experienced every other type of abuse prior to that and was even suicidal when I was younger. I'd take that twice before having my innocence shattered by my cheating husband.

 

But it's done now. It can't be undone. And there has been a huge expansion of the context of his world as well. He had to learn the hard way (as you are now) that cheating comes with consequences, it isn't all "he he, look what I can get away with. OR it's just a bit of fun, no big deal."

 

It IS a big deal and not because your spouse is overly sensitive. But because as human beings we are designed to be sensitive to being cheated on. Our unevolved selves' survival often depended on our relationships. To lose them or have them threatened wakened parts of ourselves that we didn't even know existed.

 

To her unevolved self, you've become a liability. Someone not to be trusted in the jungle. She's cleaving to the next best thing. And yes, it FEELS like survival mode. The only way through this IF YOU WANT THE M is to show that even with the disaster, even with the emotional cluster-fu*k that you are a consistent, decent guy who is committed not just to fixing "this marriage" but consistent to abiding by morals that you now realize the necessity for and that you would never hurt or disrespect her that way again.

 

That doesn't mean buying groceries (necessarily) or letting her walk on you. That means picking yourself up (you are!), taking care of yourself (you are doing this too!) and making sure that you respect her ability to make her own choices without shaming, guilting or trying to manipulate her back to you. You don't have to respect her choices but you would have to show that you respect her ability to be intelligent enough etc to make her own choices. If you down her on them, all it will inspire is some guilt or anger that she will associate with you.

 

I know that this is long-winded and I don't envy you. I know it's tough. I do. It stinks. It's also why we don't generally open these doors.

 

I do wish you luck despite my brazen post prior to this. A lot of times I think waywards need a more aggressive smackdown to shake them from denial or "poor me" thinking. I did see the "how could she do this to me?" thinking start to shine through. That won't get you anywhere, in this marriage or any other. As long as you perceive yourself as the victim in the situation, you throw away your own power AND your own responsibility in the situation.

 

Seriously, Chuck is pretty awesome. Ask him about the car key analogy if you get a chance to talk to him.

[dreamingoftigers]

Its not about owing him. Its about owning it to herself to have some self respect. I don't care what the excuse, there is none for cheating.

 

If I knew a woman cheated on her husband, I wouldn't care if it was because he cheated on her first. All she has shown me is she has no qualms about cheating if she thinks the excuse is valid. I wouldn't bother with her.

 

Again, as far as I'm concerned, he has lost the right to complain and should just take steps to move on. But she has become no better than him and should have more respect for herself than to lower herself to what she has.

 

Here's where we differ. At this point the marriage is a technicality. She called over before going to bed etc with someone else. She hasn't just said "i'm leaving, you smell like pee, I hope you spontaneously combust." She's actually FILED for divorce.

 

He doesn't want her to, but her actions are very congruent. There is no ambiguity here, no betrayal. She has said, "because of your crapola, I am DONE. All that is left is the administrative." She's with someone else. She's going kinda mental, yes, but who doesn't during a D. She's filed. They don't share a domicile. She's walking the walk. If she could be divorced today at the state level, it probably would've happened last week. There isn't any ambiguity left.

 

It's not on the same level by far and not everyone has the same value system regarding when the relationship obligation ends.

 

I personally think it's when OVER is called and the papers are in or when a spouse has clearly, purely abandoned the other. My husband disappeared for three months making divorce filing etc. much more difficult because they need to confirm that he is aware of the divorce. If there wasn't a time-limit, that could've held me in limbo for decades LOL. One of my teachers had her divorce drag out four years (!) The state doesn't dictate when my marriage is over in the emotional/relational/spiritual sense. Only myself and my husband can decide that for sure.

[anne1707]

Also photos of a EA sort of I was having with a girl. We would flirt online she had a boyfriend and showed me her underwear one time online I took photo. Would send me all her modeling photos that I saved

 

I did not have an EA at all with these people and I guess her EA I feel it is unfair.

 

Slight contradiction there. Again you are minimising your actions to support your case against your wife who only chose to see someone after leaving you and filing for divorce.

[lonelyinnj]

Simply, I was stating the EA thing. Frankly and call me a girl, I am more hurt by her EA than the PA. Yes indeed I agree that woman need some emotional connection for the PA not to be dirty and sleezy.

 

Despite all the advise, I will simply set rules and schedule. We have agreed that no one is allowed to leave after the children sleep to go see someone, pawning it off on the other.

 

I have accepted that I have no influence on her situation other than to be the best dad and person I can be. In that matter, I used to just walk by homeless people in NYC, and honestly most people do that, then go buy a $5 starbucks coffee. Really I thought that over and it is quite disgusting. I skipped my coffee, and gave the money to someone who looked like they could use it.

 

Small things like that tell me that I am a much better person now, my daughters tell me daily they love me unprompted, they clearly see the changes I have made (ADD really effects everyone around you), and some of the changes were because of that. But I was motivated to change.

 

I actually did DB with Michelle for 3 sessions one on one and she helped me alot to discover the root cause of all the marriage misery that led up to me making a very stupid series of decisions, it wasn't out of the blue, and if this didn't happen perhaps 10 years more we split after the kids are in college (how many times you seen that??).

 

The problem is that she saw the 'name' in my emails she was snooping (don't know why) divorce busting, and then it became like I wanted to 'win'. they really should use a different name for their emails or something because the other person feels like you are trying to game them. When in fact DB is more about discovering what was wrong, if it is fixable, are you willing to fix it, how you might do that, and discovering better yourself. It isn't a military strategy to take back your spouse, it is a self-reflection, and marriage-reflection to discover how fix what is clearly broken.

 

Either we will become strong from this or we will go our separate ways. Either way it would be a better 10 years than the last 6 we have been living together for her and for me. I know regaining her trust will take a long time.

 

I did fix the shower. Just don't have it in me to be mean. I spent 3 years being mean and grumpy. Sorry to disappoint those of you that think that is the only way. Dishing out more of the old mean me is just not my new way of thinking. She is still the mother of my children and works hard to provide for them. I had a lovely Vday with my children at a restaurant. Lots of fun, and extra special attention from the staff who see a father with two girls being a good dad. Really memorable day for me. I will remember that not that she was out.

 

She asked me to talk tonite. First time she asked ME to talk. I am nervous wreck. I am guessing she will say:

 

1. She'll never love me again - I have to get used to her out -

and push divorce process. - maybe even says she loves the other guy

(though after 1 month that is a bit extreme)

2. She might stop her going out until we have full separation for kids.

3. She wants an open marriage (she mentioned this on DDAY).

4. Maybe she realizes we should try to make it work. Maybe she woke up.

 

I am going with 2. 3 is a long shot, but she has seemed to be thinking things out and not reacting. If we do 3, all I want is a chance to see if we can make it work. I know that it doesn't always happen, some scars, some memories are too deep, but at least we can say we tried. That is what I want to hold my head up high and say I tried to save the marriage, if our differences are too great and damage too deep, then at least all the cards are on the table.

 

Tonite is her nite with kids so I am going to relax a bit and just clear my head before we talk. I will not raise my voice, I will not talk about OM, I will shutup and listen - for once. All of this is so emotionally exhausting.

 

Wish me luck.

[lonelyinnj]

Slight contradiction there. Again you are minimising your actions to support your case against your wife who only chose to see someone after leaving you and filing for divorce.

 

I said sort of because I wasn't flirting with her, but she was a good friend and a girl that I kept hidden. I consider her a good friend, but never sexting or any noncense like that. She was the one though that showed me her underwear when she was waiting for her boyfriend to come back from meeting. She didn't show me to entice me, I simply told her I hope she had sexy underwear on for him (she was in a fancy hotel.). Maybe some would say that is flirting, I was just being funny.

[anne1707]

Also photos of a EA sort of I was having with a girl. We would flirt online she had a boyfriend and showed me her underwear one time online I took photo. Would send me all her modeling photos that I saved

 

I said sort of because I wasn't flirting with her, but she was a good friend and a girl that I kept hidden. I consider her a good friend, but never sexting or any noncense like that. She was the one though that showed me her underwear when she was waiting for her boyfriend to come back from meeting. She didn't show me to entice me, I simply told her I hope she had sexy underwear on for him (she was in a fancy hotel.). Maybe some would say that is flirting, I was just being funny.

 

Sounds like flirting and an EA to me and I reckon probably a lot of other people too. Yet more contradictions too minimising your actions.

[lonelyinnj]

dreamingoftigers...

 

wow the first post of yours "i'm glad she has OM..." was pretty harsh, but the others so insightful. I don't think it is helpful though to anyone that the OM has a stake in her getting out, and is her primary sounding board.

 

yes I have stopped comparing what she did to what I did. because they are not concurrent one is a consequence of the other and both are my fault.

 

As I have said, I am resigned to move forward with whatever plans she has. I really have no choice in the matter (two to marry one to divorce), so I have to accept that. I looked at the statistics on separation that go to divorce (80%) so delaying that seems counter productive to normal life. Also because of that I have decided (with my marriage counselor as my sounding board) that I will take the high road, I don't have to be mean if I don't want to, I can be nice and still maintain my dignity using boundaries.

 

Today has been a good day. I am quite happy right now because my children love me. been smiling all day.

[lonelyinnj]

Sounds like flirting and an EA to me and I reckon probably a lot of other people too. Yet more contradictions too minimising your actions.

 

I have always been that way with all my friends that were girls over the years (and I had more girls that were friends than guys). I never saw it as flirting, ..

and never had PA with any of them.

 

If you have a friend that is a girl and you say damn you look hot tonite showing those sexy legs, is that flirting?

[dreamingoftigers]

Simply, I was stating the EA thing. Frankly and call me a girl, I am more hurt by her EA than the PA. Yes indeed I agree that woman need some emotional connection for the PA not to be dirty and sleezy.

 

Honestly, I was saying that men can more easily understand the PA without the EA. I'll bet that the combo of PA +EA is much more crushing than if she had just said " now I'm getting my sex." But to a woman hearing the man say that he "loved" the AP or that they had a "special friendship" is often more crushing. Me personally, the sexual end of things is what did me in, but I had issues regarding trying really hard to please on that level.

 

Despite all the advise, I will simply set rules and schedule. We have agreed that no one is allowed to leave after the children sleep to go see someone, pawning it off on the other.

 

That is nothing short of reasonable and healthy for your children as well.

 

I have accepted that I have no influence on her situation other than to be the best dad and person I can be. In that matter, I used to just walk by homeless people in NYC, and honestly most people do that, then go buy a $5 starbucks coffee. Really I thought that over and it is quite disgusting. I skipped my coffee, and gave the money to someone who looked like they could use it.

 

As a former bum and panhandler, it is appreciated by most who have that lifestyle/circumstance. The rate in NYC is TERRIBLE! Every cent counts.

 

Small things like that tell me that I am a much better person now, my daughters tell me daily they love me unprompted, they clearly see the changes I have made (ADD really effects everyone around you), and some of the changes were because of that. But I was motivated to change.

 

Exercise helps immensely with regulation of ADD. Both myself and husband have it. He finds that 5-HTP helps with the ADHD component of it (often the two are hand in hand). Daniel Amen (of Amen Brain Clinics) has a fairly extensive book on ADD regulation. My issue is computer usage.

 

I actually did DB with Michelle for 3 sessions one on one and she helped me alot to discover the root cause of all the marriage misery that led up to me making a very stupid series of decisions, it wasn't out of the blue, and if this didn't happen perhaps 10 years more we split after the kids are in college (how many times you seen that??).

 

The problem is that she saw the 'name' in my emails she was snooping (don't know why) divorce busting, and then it became like I wanted to 'win'. they really should use a different name for their emails or something because the other person feels like you are trying to game them. When in fact DB is more about discovering what was wrong, if it is fixable, are you willing to fix it, how you might do that, and discovering better yourself. It isn't a military strategy to take back your spouse, it is a self-reflection, and marriage-reflection to discover how fix what is clearly broken.

 

That's fortunate about Michelle but unfortunate about the emails.

 

Either we will become strong from this or we will go our separate ways. Either way it would be a better 10 years than the last 6 we have been living together for her and for me. I know regaining her trust will take a long time.

 

I did fix the shower. Just don't have it in me to be mean. I spent 3 years being mean and grumpy. Sorry to disappoint those of you that think that is the only way. Dishing out more of the old mean me is just not my new way of thinking. She is still the mother of my children and works hard to provide for them. I had a lovely Vday with my children at a restaurant. Lots of fun, and extra special attention from the staff who see a father with two girls being a good dad. Really memorable day for me. I will remember that not that she was out.

 

She asked me to talk tonite. First time she asked ME to talk. I am nervous wreck. I am guessing she will say:

 

1. She'll never love me again - I have to get used to her out -

and push divorce process. - maybe even says she loves the other guy

(though after 1 month that is a bit extreme)

2. She might stop her going out until we have full separation for kids.

3. She wants an open marriage (she mentioned this on DDAY).

4. Maybe she realizes we should try to make it work. Maybe she woke up.

 

I am going with 2. 3 is a long shot, but she has seemed to be thinking things out and not reacting. If we do 3, all I want is a chance to see if we can make it work. I know that it doesn't always happen, some scars, some memories are too deep, but at least we can say we tried. That is what I want to hold my head up high and say I tried to save the marriage, if our differences are too great and damage too deep, then at least all the cards are on the table.

 

Tonite is her nite with kids so I am going to relax a bit and just clear my head before we talk. I will not raise my voice, I will not talk about OM, I will shutup and listen - for once. All of this is so emotionally exhausting.

 

Wish me luck.

 

Best of luck, yes it is sooo exhausting one way or the other. But the limbo is the worst.

[anne1707]

I have always been that way with all my friends that were girls over the years (and I had more girls that were friends than guys). I never saw it as flirting, ..

and never had PA with any of them.

 

If you have a friend that is a girl and you say damn you look hot tonite showing those sexy legs, is that flirting?

 

*facepalm*

[dreamingoftigers]

dreamingoftigers...

 

wow the first post of yours "i'm glad she has OM..." was pretty harsh, but the others so insightful. I don't think it is helpful though to anyone that the OM has a stake in her getting out, and is her primary sounding board.

 

That was probably more projection than I am comfortable admitting.

 

yes I have stopped comparing what she did to what I did. because they are not concurrent one is a consequence of the other and both are my fault.

 

As I have said, I am resigned to move forward with whatever plans she has. I really have no choice in the matter (two to marry one to divorce), so I have to accept that. I looked at the statistics on separation that go to divorce (80%) so delaying that seems counter productive to normal life. Also because of that I have decided (with my marriage counselor as my sounding board) that I will take the high road, I don't have to be mean if I don't want to, I can be nice and still maintain my dignity using boundaries.

 

Today has been a good day. I am quite happy right now because my children love me. been smiling all day.

 

There is also another 80% statistic. I don't mention it to give you false hope, but some if you want it later. 80% of couples that are together >20 years go through a separation at some point. Not overnighters either. Source from "Getting Back Together," a book about healing separations.

 

Yes, little people will pull you through amazingly harsh times just by being sweet little people.

[lonelyinnj]

Ugh

 

She just invited me to dinner with kids before we talk later. I want to see the kids and to be great in front if her and with them. But how is this distance?

 

I have initially said no. But now think it is opportunity to show my 180 in front of her. What should I do??

[lonelyinnj]

I decided not to go to give her space and time with kids

Probably best she invited me because I have seen them all day and it would be

Awkward (not a good sign for talk)

 

They had school events I attended then took them home after was off work today

 

Best to wait and see what happens with the talk.

 

Tomorrow is her day. Giving space to see how important kids are to her is a good thing in my book.

Edited February 16, 2013 by lonelyinnj

[lonelyinnj]

We had a very long talk. Well she talked I listened. She is clearly very hurt. As stated before our marriage was bad.. This was the straw that broke the camels back. She said that the house was her prison and she wanted to get away. Made it clear she doesn't want to reconcile that this is unforgivable. Yes clearly the lack of love and intimacy has driven her to seek it elsewhere.. She said she will continue that but understands how it effects me.

 

We probably cut through more than any therapist could. Some things are clear ... She doesn't want to reconcile at this point... I don't know if she ever will. There was no yelling just talking probably more than we have in years in one sitting... That sucks huh?

 

I want to help her heal regardless, she has been my friend for 20 years and married 10. I do love her enough to let her go. I love her enough to help her heal.

 

Regarding the 180... Here is my problem 180 is for couples that were close to realize the void... My problem is the opposite I was absent... Traveling or being selfish for most if the past 2 years... She is used to being alone with kids, used to me not being there not relying on me.

 

180 for me is being there is showing how things could be if she would try... I just hope at that time I haven't lost hope. I will still keep schedule and maintain distance but show my changed self at any opportunity. I will stop mornings for at least awhile to see how kids react, they too went for 12 days without day when traveling so they are a bit immune to the not present 180 concept.

 

I am going to the gym, went out to eat by myself last night, and focusing on work and kids.

 

I will give her space... Though she filed divorce papers she chose not to have sheriff serve them but do by mail, and she said that seperation is now what she wants though her verbal comment is it makes the divorce easier...I think she is leaving time for final decisions... And that is good.

 

She said she isnt attracted to me anymore. I can't make her love me or be attracted to me (which she told me she isn't though didn't say she didn't love me)... No more than I can make it rain. I don't care much for the past me either so I have a changed that and will continue to improve.

 

I can choose to do things for myself, to be a good person, a good father and be nice to her. She clearly is doing whatever she is out of survival not out if meanness or spite. She realizes it isn't fair and admitted that she knows his influence is biased and that she doesn't want to go and leave her children but feels a need... (I summize like a drug) and knows it is wrong. It is her escape from a prison of years where it was work, cook, eat clean sleep robot style... I get it perhaps because I know her so long. She also knows as eyeing someone at this point isn't healthy for her... She is clear on that but has no other ability to cope... I think a therapist could take that place but I don't know if she has one.. She said she had one, then was still looking... I really know she needs one- I didn't think I did until I started

 

Sorry for the long post it was an insightful talk. Honest and open.

[lonelyinnj]

Thanks 2ling sound like you understand my point if view. She recently told me I used to get so ADD angry she would frantically clean counters before I got home... I went off on clutter is guess (add instant on off anger thing)... I became unbearable... I think she wants to see if this new me is real or and act and since I nearly changed overnight who can blame her? I would before change for a month or two then revert... Now I am in for the long haul either back in or out. She actually said to me a few weeks ago that it has "only been a month"...

 

I will support her healing and being the husband she wanted to have but will not enable her. We did discuss the OM she initiated... , as I said before I get it sure I'm hurt but she hurts 1000x more.. It isn't self flagellation anymore or guilt it is simply seeing her point of view and being selfless. I actually fear without that "drug" she'd be suicidal. Therefore as much as it sucks this is part of her healing process and not an attack on me.

 

She continued to assert that this is not a long time thing and tell me she doesn't spend much time with him... And that he listens and she likes that... And that he only wants sex.. I don't think she is minimizing to calm me I think she is minimizing to justify her actions to herself but realizes this is all wrong. You know the drug is wrong but you can't stop... Even suggested he is dating other woman and I don't think he makes all his time for her...

 

I hope to fill the void of someone to talk to I feel I can be objective as I don't want a loveless marriage and someone is so much pain needs healing. Perhaps I take an intellectual approach to this all... But I have complete clarity on my life and bad marriage. I am in a sense happy my bad marriage died but sorry it was this way... I would be happy to fall in love again with her... But only she can choose love and I can simply be someone desirable if not to her at least to myself.

 

It will be difficult to start making preparations for complete separation and divorce while holding hope. I know she is not ready to try now I hope someday she is... If it comes I will be receptive. Else I will know I did my best to love her until the end.

 

She understands I will not enable her to "sneak out" and leave the children and she is genuinely regretful for some of the choices she has made over the past month...I heard her say it, and in her voice and heart. She even apologized to me. Our calm objective non acusorial talk was good for me and I think her. We have plans to talk again tonite, as she wants to communicate I want to listen. That itself is a 180 from my past 6 years.

[lonelyinnj]

I am seeing her self destructive behavior she didn't say it I notice it. I am not enabling but I know if I say stop her brain will think go. If it doesn't effect me it removes a component of motivation. Being away from your children for a mother will effect the other motivation.

 

I am accepting that the future remains he's to choose and if I am not in it someone someday will get a honest loving person.

 

Our schedule will be set and I will stick to it. That is the path she chooses and I may not agree but will accept. She might see that future as rosy but I see all the broken glass we will have to walk across including my kids.

 

Interestingly she doesn't remember much of the good conversation and even her laughing the first night we talked because she drank too much... So I think somewhere inside she wants it back but right now all she feels daily is pain. I think if I can help her resolve tht those submerged feelings might just arise

 

Hope alive. Accept my destiny

[Chi townD]

2Long is absolutely right. Her excuse of having an affair to help her heal is absolute bullsh*t. And, of course, you sat there and nodded your head as to say, "I understand". She says she's not attacted to you. Well, WW's never are when there's another guy in the picture.

 

Listen to 2Long, you need to distance yourself from her. Not be available. Letting her phonecalls go to voicemail and only respond if it has to deal with the kids. You need to seperate everything. Seperate accounts...everything we've been telling you.

[lonelyinnj]

2long... i sense the same thing and have done that distanced. Going to be away for 2 days with the kids... not going to think about this. But you are right I am not happy being plan B.

 

There really is no need for money grabbing, trust me I know her and me just aren't those kind of people. Beside we both know that won't go over well in court especially with mediators.

 

Was out enjoying myself today and she asked if I was having fun (sounds like someone that doesn't care?)... She really needs to commit to me or go... she is clearly on some kind of fence. I know we might not even be able to 'heal' her, but I am willing to try. In the meantime I'm off to have a fun few days at my friends house with my kids.

[lonelyinnj]

I call bull feathers on all the justifying her affair.

Stop enabling the affair. You prolong real healing by doing that. And the longer it continues the less you'll care.

-ol' 2long

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and lets face it I wasn't husband of the year ... and then it got worse. I don't have to be emotional about everything, things can be thought of logically. There is a action and reaction that in your mind might be unthinkable, in mine is justifiable. Perhaps I like that it puts us on more even ground, perhaps I think that it would make it easier for her to heal. Perhaps she even thought that, but I can see it isn't working for her. The drug is wearing off.

 

You are right, longer it continues less i'll care, and less chance that I'll be willing to do all the work to heal this. Before it was about getting even, now it is disrespectful to her children. Disrespectful to me? Well as WS who started this... i don't think I get to say that.

[dreamingoftigers]

Hey man,

 

You sound like you have the same mindset I did a year ago.

 

It worked out for me, it takes a lot of fostering those small moments.

 

She is opening up to you. Granted even if it is bull crap, you don't have to believe it. In fact, don't.

 

The more she spews, and the more you stay out of the way of it, the quicker she'll go "oh hey, this isn't REALLY giving me what I need. I'm just empty, and this is just a distraction from dealing with ANYTHING that's actually bothering me." OM is a symptom of that inner turbulence.

 

The more you attack him, or try to reason with her about him it'll just turn into a "you're trying to wreck my fun/control my life." (I am not saying that you are doing any of this.

 

She WILL test you, over and over. Stay true to yourself. Don't take the bait, don't play the game. Stand centered in who you are.

 

And again. It's your marriage, you can check out of it when YOU want and not one moment before because others (including your wife) ate giving you heat about it.

 

At DB, they asked me on a scale of 10 where my M was. At the time I said 0.01. It wasn't a joke or a hyperbole. My husband has disappeared and was now living in another city. I went weeks without hearing from him. He was also a trainwreck cheater and had relapsed into alcoholism.

 

I called DB anyways. Chuck asked me what would bring it up to a one and what I would need to get there. I stayed with my strategy, didn't take the bait, offered up empathy and stayed TOTALLY CALM no matter what crap my husband tossed out at me. I also stopped returning 100% of his calls/texts. I returned about 67% to 75%. I gaged emotionally when I could/could not talk to him. I did a little test on myself. (sounds kinda weird). I would think of my dog getting into the garbage. If I felt at that moment like I would yell at the dog, I didn't talk to my husband. if I felt like I could just handle cleaning up the mess, I pick up the call.

 

I remember one day my marriage went from 0.01 to 0.02 when my H said one nice thing. I was disappointed with the progress until I realized that it had doubled! LOL. so I really started from there.

 

It did take months. Lots of hard boundaries and lots of patience until he was willing (and asking) to do the hard work of recon. Now it's amazing to think about things being so awful. It feels like it was a foregone conclusion that we would end up back together. Instead the reality was like finding a series of needles in a series of haystacks. But with a strong enough magnet, it can be achieved.

[road]

You will never get your WW back by not fighting the affair.

 

Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley if you want a real chance at getting your WW back.

 

All you are doing is being a doormat. WW do not respect doormats. WW do not want relationships with doormats.

[Darren Steez]

2long... i sense the same thing and have done that distanced. Going to be away for 2 days with the kids... not going to think about this. But you are right I am not happy being plan B.

 

There really is no need for money grabbing, trust me I know her and me just aren't those kind of people. Beside we both know that won't go over well in court especially with mediators.

 

Was out enjoying myself today and she asked if I was having fun (sounds like someone that doesn't care?)... She really needs to commit to me or go... she is clearly on some kind of fence. I know we might not even be able to 'heal' her, but I am willing to try. In the meantime I'm off to have a fun few days at my friends house with my kids.

 

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Just read through the whole thread, then read his wife doesn't love him and doesn't want to reconcile and will continue to see OM and have sex with him

 

and then I read that...

 

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